quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I believe that's how Howard got banned. Lesson learned: don't take on any fiero giants with hoards of followers.

No, Howie got banned by Cliff (not by ratings) after it was made public that Howie started the "Pennocksucks" forum which is now called RFT.

If Howie was banned by ratings, his red bar would be flashing.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 07-09-2007).]

I think the lesson is that there is a right way to deal with customer service issues and a wrong way. Becoming hostile and accusatory is certainly not going to get you want you want. It WILL make you look like a fool however. If you keep your cool and request corrective action and none is taken then you document the entire experience and let the court of public opinion, comsumer affairs, the BBB, or the local licensing and regulatory bodies work for you. Throwing tantrums like a school girl is NOT going impress ANYONE. That is what Howard did and it overshadowed any potential legitimacy to his complaint.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I believe that's how Howard got banned. Lesson learned: don't take on any fiero giants with hoards of followers.

Too bad you don't have the guts to post a link to the thread that talks about the facts surrounding howards complaint. This is a typical example of the mis-leading information that is the basis of RFT & the loosers that run it.

Let the readers judge the facts for themselves by reading what actually happened instead of your twist on the facts.

Here it is https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...030531-1-023746.html

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: Too bad you don't have the guts to post a link to the thread that talks about the facts surrounding howards complaint.

Yes, because I knew everyone would skip right over your post in that thread. Which one was it? The 3rd one down from the top?

edit: Actually that thread is pretty juicy. It proves a connection between "calling out" major fiero vendors and negative ratings:

quote Originally posted by Cheever3000: Wait a minute, y'all. That was coming straight from someone with first-hand experience, so don't be so quick to give him negatives. Consider changing your rating to Neutral and give this discussion a chance. This is the place for anyone with a complaint about Archie's quality of workmanship or service to speak up.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: No, Howie got banned by Cliff (not by ratings) after it was made public that Howie started the "Pennocksucks" forum which is now called RFT. If Howie was banned by ratings, his red bar would be flashing.

Thanks for the correction. I guess I didn't follow too closely when it actually happened. Judging from his ratings though, he was close to being banned, and I would bet a majority were because of his public feud with Archie.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 07-09-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Another thing that some are forgetting is that folks like Darth, Will, crzyone, Kohburn, rockcrawl, etc. who have vast knowledge of Fiero's, engines, and swaps also post in tech on PFF. So to say that one Fiero forum has a better tech because the more technical people are members on RFT rather than PFF is inaccurate. The difference is there are many more here who are also knowledgeable and are not members on RFT for one reason or another.

True enough. Just seems the tech section on rft has way less trafic and is mainly used by people who have been around fieros for a long time. Not too many people join rft who have not been a member here for a few years already. I post on both forums, I like both forums. Both forums have things I like and dislike. RFT isn't for everyone, this is more of a family forum and rft is more of an R-rated forum if you want to look at it like that.

There are a lot of members here that surf rft a lot but are not members. They are probably afraid of their ratings bars going into the negative if they are associated with rft.


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[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 07-09-2007).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Thanks for the correction. I guess I didn't follow too closely when it actually happened. Judging from his ratings though, he was close to being banned, and I would bet a majority were because of his public feud with Archie.

You apparently didn't follow too closely reading the thread between Howard and Archie, either.

Howard was trying to blame Archie for selling him a bad engine. Archie shipped the engine for the owner. The owner, not Archie, was paid for the engine. But when Howard decided he had been ripped off, he didn't go back to the guy he PAID for the engine - he started talking trash about Archie.

THAT's why he got negatives for a "public feud with Archie."

Go read the threads.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: edit: Actually that thread is pretty juicy. It proves a connection between "calling out" major fiero vendors and negative ratings:

Actually what it does prove is that you need to provide some proof of your accusations when you call anyone out. Howards case proves that if you're going to blame someone for your problems it's usually good to blame the correct person.

Archie

OK, after reading this thread, I decided to explore RFT. My impression was that a few people have nothing better to do than bash others. I may be back to look at technical threads; however I'll know who's threads to avoid next time. Life's too short to get caught up in such negativity!

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Howard was trying to blame Archie for selling him a bad engine. Archie shipped the engine for the owner. ... Go read the threads.

Okay, I took your advice.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Howards case proves that if you're going to blame someone for your problems it's usually good to blame the correct person.

Actually he doesn't seem very upset at all with Bob aka rgeeinc (the owner of the engine):

quote Originally posted by Howard_Sacks: I really am not that upset with you [Bob]. I knew I was making a risk and made that transaction at arm's length. Don't get me wrong, I'm mad I've blown $3Gs because it's not Y2000 anymore. And I'm mad I wasted the guy's time that helped me(who REALLY wants to stay out of all of this), but I learned how to swap an engine and did learn a lot for maybe another day.

It seems to me that he paid for and expected then engine to be removed with care so that it could be installed with minimal effort, and instead received an engine with cut fuel rails and cut wires which cost him money and effort:

quote Originally posted by Howard_Sacks: 2) Archie was the one that took the engine out of the car. He hacked up, broke, cut and took many components(he did not say he was removing them). Any exhaust shop can make a crossover pipe. It was the fuel management and tuning that Archie hacked up without any apology that is the expensive part. INSTEAD OF DISCONNECTING CUSTOM FUEL LINES FROM THE CONNECTORS, HE SAWED THEM IN HALF. INSTEAD OF NOTING WHERE THE CUSTOM WIRES HE WAS SLICING WENT TO, HE DID NOTHING. HE EVEN SHIPPED BRACKETS WITH IT THAT WERE CRACKED IN HALF. HE THREW AWAY THE AIR INTAKE! Come on man! Surely I'm not out of line in expecting a little more then that from the fiero expert. YOU WERE THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THAT, NOT BOB!

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe he did deserve all those negatives for the way he went about this business. I don't know for sure. There are two sides to every issue and the real answer is usually in the middle. The blame here clearly resides with both. Howard for buying an engine sight unseen; Archie for not communicating the engine was going to be hastily removed.

I'm going to see if I can find any other examples of people getting banned for speaking out against a fiero vendor.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe he did deserve all those negatives for the way he went about this business. I don't know for sure. There are two sides to every issue and the real answer is usually in the middle. The blame here clearly resides with both. Howard for buying an engine sight unseen; Archie for not communicating the engine was going to be hastily removed. I'm going to see if I can find any other examples of people getting banned for speaking out against a fiero vendor.

Yeah, why don't you go back & dig up all the old bashing threads & we can rehash them all here.

bmwguru: You're right, I'm getting pretty well fed-up with the bashing too. You can go back & search other posts by this guy & you'll find that he's always got some kind of bashing going on. Now he must be running out of material, & wants to go back & dig up old threads to get new material for a new round of bashing.

It's never going to end so all you can do is to preface their attack comments with "I flip burgers for a living, and can't afford an Archie car. So I resent the fact that there are some out there who can. So I will bash him for building the cars & them for buying the cars."

Archie

Archie, a question: Why do you waste so much time and effort on Shaun? The guy isn't worth a minute of my time. I'd think he was worth even less of yours. It seems to me that you're actually doing him a favor by giving him so much attention.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Hey Shaunbag, glad you're paying attention.

Why don't you post over there where he'd love to chat with you?

Instead you have to play some kind of telephone game like Fierophrek, and drag the rest of us into it.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: nobody stands up for themselves and posts over there. Instead, they start whole new threads over HERE trying to stir up some inter-forum rivalry sh1t. (*cough cough*) https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/065852.html Soon we're going to need a "PFF vs World" section.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 07-10-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: See me after class.

I was waiting for that. Took ya' long enough to pick a part the way it was said and/or spelled.
Point proven.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: What?? Look at the thread Ryan posted. You commented on what you heard from someone else and Archie said "I'm not even going to try to address 2nd, 3rd., 4th party complaints nor am I going to deal with a 2nd party interpretation of what I said to someone."

We got put in charge with dealing with cletus as we were the ones doing the swap, the only difference was he had us use his CC # to order. But all dealings were through us. The parts were even shipped here. (almost one at a time)
But enough about cletus, he may think this whole thing is about him.


Hmmm, RFT ripps on people for stupid questions, but PFF ripps on people for less than perfect grammar and/or spelling.
sounds like you will get ripped on in either forum. Hope no one spells thier stupid question wrong.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Instead you have to play some kind of telephone game like Fierophrek, and drag the rest of us into it.

Oh, yeah, you poor baby, you were so innocently dragged into this thread & all the other bashing threads you've been in over the last 2 months. In the last 2 months, have you participated in any threads that didn't have Archie bashing in them?

Shaunbag & I had plenty of conversations when he was over here. Everytime he made another of his stupid accusations I proved him wrong with facts. That didn't change anything, all he did is move on to the next accusation just like he does now.

The only difference now is that none of you guys have enough balls to ask him to provide proof of anything he says.

He's not interested in the truth or facts, he's only interested in the hate.

Why do I spend some of my time on Shaunbag? He spouts so many groundless accusations that if they go unchallenged long enough then people like ryan here start to believe him & come over here to beat Shaunbags drum.

Archie

What happened to the rant about forums?

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