So I'm at the shop today and a guy from a shop down the way comes by and asks me if I'd be interested in an '88 Fiero with a Ferarri body kit he picked up at auction last week. The price was reasonable so I said bring it by and I'll take a look. He gave me some b/w pictures to look at and I started reading up on what made a Mera a Mera. Sure looked like one in the pics.
The car was dropped off a few minutes ago and man is it rough. Real rough. Rust has not been kind to this thing.
1st thing I did was pop the rear hatch and sure enough... MERA Serail NO. 8045.
This is by far the rustiest Fiero I've ever seen. The rear lid won't close because the hinges rusted away from the body. The bottom of the doors are gone. Any piece of exposed metal is literally bursting with rust. There is a water line mark on the trunk carpet just about to the top of the trunk liner... looks like a possible flood victim?
The body kit is intact and looks to be all there except the filler between the trunk and the rear pannel. Close inspection of the front looks like it may have seen a minor colision repiar.
So now I've got this thing and am weighing options. I can think of 2...
1) Swap it all over to the '88 Formula parts car I have sitting in the shop 2) Part it out on eBay and let other Mura owners get the pieces they need to keep theirs on the road.
I've taken a Fiero coupe apart and know it's a lot of work.... can only imagine how involved a Mura swap would be. If I had a lot of time on my hands that'd be one thing... but I don't.
Anyway, I'm open to opinions here. Thanks, Chad
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07:13 PM
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craigsfiero2007 Member
Posts: 3979 From: Livermore, ME Registered: Aug 2007
Swap the body over to a healthy car. If the rust is as bad as you say, the car is basically worthless as is. I didn't look at all of your pix, but from the description the frame sounds like it's toast. The body panels can live on, however, on a different and hopefully "un-flooded" car.
Meras are fairly rare, but not so rare that it would be worth spending $1K+ repairing a rotted rusted frame.
Good luck, and keep us posted!
EDIT: I went back and looked at all the pix. Wow. Maybe it's just the picture, but.... is that seaweed on the engine?
[This message has been edited by Doc John (edited 09-10-2007).]
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07:34 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
I agree, though. If you've got a spare 88 frame, I'd transfer everything over. Might contact the DMV and see what the law is regarding that and if there's any way to preserve the original VIN. If so, it can be saved. If not, it can at least be rebuilt into a fun, if not original, Mera.
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07:39 PM
Carver1 Member
Posts: 2843 From: Edgewood, New Mexico Registered: Nov 2000
If you have a clean title for both cars, you can usually combine them into one title with the VIN of your choosing. This is common on old pickup trucks that roll over and get new cabs installed. The title IIRC does show both VIN's on it, but one is the primary. If I am wrong, it wouldn't be the first time though. It might even be considered a rebuilt title. I'd still buy one if the explanation was similar to your situation. Might be worth a shot..
I believe here in Hawaii the VIN follows the frame, not the body. I can check, though.
That stuff in the engine bay is dried vines that grew while the car was sitting. It went from a City abandoned vehicle auction to a dealer and then to the auction my friend got it from.
My time is limited right now so me doing the body swap is not really an option. The guy I got the car from is a bodyman so we're in negotiations on what it would take for him to do the swap. Since this car and the donar car are both autos I think the Series 1 SC3800 engine and 4 speed auto trans might find their way in there too
[This message has been edited by Chad87FB (edited 09-10-2007).]
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08:28 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
In KS, the VIN also follows the frame. That said.......................
The Mera tag is tied to the rusty frames VIN. There are two VIN plates on the Fiero. One is where you always see it, on the windshield. The other is on the support behind the dash, you nearly need to completely remove the dash to get to it. Both are held on by pop rivest. The VIN also appears on the RPO sheet in the front trunk.
Now not saying I'd do this, but pop rivets have been known to come loose and need to be replaced from time to time. Those stickers often get loose at the edges and need to be glued back down. If when these things happened, they happened to swap to a rust free chassis, well..........................
(BTW, I'm assuming you are honest, have clear titles to BOTH vehicles, etc., etc. )
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Chad87FB:
I believe here in Hawaii the VIN follows the frame, not the body. I can check, though.
That stuff in the engine bay is dried vines that grew while the car was sitting. It went from a City abandoned vehicle auction to a dealer and then to the auction my friend got it from.
My time is limited right now so me doing the body swap is not really an option. The guy I got the car from is a bodyman so we're in negotiations on what it would take for him to do the swap. Since this car and the donar car are both autos I think the Series 1 SC3800 engine and 4 speed auto trans might find their way in there too
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08:36 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 32147 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
I read the entire thread, looked at the pics, I gotta be honest. If you want a Mera, go for the rebody but only because you want one, not because it's a rare Fiero. Rare Fieros, even Meras aren't worth the money you're investing if that you're looking at it as something to sell and profit from. Again, I'm not against rebuilding the car or taking the body and putting it on your 88. Just do it for the right reasons. I love my Fieros but, realistically, their worth a whole lot more to me than to anyone else. Same with your Mera. Good luck in what ever you decide to do.
------------------ Ron
Never, never do anything or wear things that you don't want to have to explain to Paramedics, it can get very embarassing. They talk!
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08:39 PM
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cliffw Member
Posts: 36758 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
I agree with blackrams. Chad, that Mera is toast. Because of the rust. It is wrong to fake it back into an original. However, nothing wrong with selling a Mera clone. Or having one. Hey, could you get me a shot of the tail lights ? Cliff, from rust free Texas, .
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08:56 PM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36758 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Oooohh, idea. You might contact the Mera fanatics. For their advice. Start with Rodney Dickman. He originated the Mera Registry. By the way, he has some nice Mera pics and I saw the tail lights.
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09:04 PM
Mr.PBody Member
Posts: 3172 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Registered: Oct 2006
I say take 2 fieros and make a good one, not for the money, for the love. If you can't afford to do it, sell it to someone else, there are people who would get it shipped probably.
I agree with blackrams. Chad, that Mera is toast. Because of the rust. It is wrong to fake it back into an original. However, nothing wrong with selling a Mera clone. Or having one. Hey, could you get me a shot of the tail lights ? Cliff, from rust free Texas, .
I agree it's wrong to fake an original. Posting pics of the rotted out chassis and asking for opinions on the largest Fiero forum that is frequented by the owner of the Mera Registry is the last thing I'd do if I was thinking about doing that.
Also, since it's not original I figure it's the perfect candidate for a SC3800 swap That interior (except the seats) needs to go to 80's hell as well... yuck.
Cliff, refresh the link above for pics of the tail lights. 3750-3754 are the ones you want.
The body guy is going to run the numbers on a swap and repaint. As luck would have it, my wife's minivan got smacked today on her way to work. It's a lucrative insurance job that was the other guy's fault. Hmmm.... maybe some sort of deal can be struck here... like, I'll send you this job if you hook me up a sweet deal on the body swap
Trying to think of a new project name for this one. The previous '87 project was called FearO... I'm thinking this one can be Fearrari (Fear-rari)... LOL!
I say take 2 fieros and make a good one, not for the money, for the love. If you can't afford to do it, sell it to someone else, there are people who would get it shipped probably.
If there's one thing Ive learned in 20 years of car building it's that it's always for the love, not the money! It's always nice to be able to break even, though. I heavily leaning towards putting it together and using it as my daily driver. Imagine the looks... LOL!!!
EDIT: BTW, "daily driver" status to me also means running the car in SCCA Solo II
[This message has been edited by Chad87FB (edited 09-10-2007).]
Chad man WTF i left hawaii at the wrong time and i got you bitten by the fiero bug big time!!!! tell your wife i am sorry.......... NOT Ok so what i delt with in hawaii was that you can swap the vin over to a new frame because of rusty older cars and things. Since both fiero's have 88 vins it should not be a big problem. drill and re rivit. But there is some paper work that you can process at the DMV i dont believe that it costs too much for the frame change. I know that when i changed the paint on "fearo" it was a simple change in the vin documentation. Good luck man.
--matt
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10:37 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I would not rebody the Mera onto a new frame... It might or might not be legal, but that's not the point. Not that you are going to make any profit, but a Mera is too rare to let it die or fake all it's parts onto a new frame.
If you have ever watched "Muscle Car" or "Trucks" on The Powerblock they restore cars much worse than this, and they do it using original or reproduction parts.
What I would do is take a good Fiero frame and cut off the parts I needed and use them as donors for the Mera. That's going to cost a lot, but I think it would be worth it.
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11:09 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Chad man WTF i left hawaii at the wrong time and i got you bitten by the fiero bug big time!!!! tell your wife i am sorry.......... NOT Ok so what i delt with in hawaii was that you can swap the vin over to a new frame because of rusty older cars and things. Since both fiero's have 88 vins it should not be a big problem. drill and re rivit. But there is some paper work that you can process at the DMV i dont believe that it costs too much for the frame change. I know that when i changed the paint on "fearo" it was a simple change in the vin documentation. Good luck man.
--matt
Hehe, I've always had a soft spot for these cars. Some would say the soft spot was in the side of my head! LOL! I had a guy a stop by the shop on Friday and try to give me 2 more parts cars. I'd have taken them if I had the room. If I can get the Park Ave stripped and gone this week I might go and try to get the one he said had a lot of new AC parts on it.
I really don't want to pass this off as an original Mera. I'll be upfront that the body is from a "real one" and make sure to give all the details I can with photo documentation. Many of the interior pieces will NOT find their way onto the donor chassis but I'll keep them upstairs in case I sell the car and someone wants them.
On a side note, I showed a picture of the car to my wife. Some might call this the "real" test. I'm lucky in that Magnum PI was a childhood crush of hers... she liked it! *ROFL* Bonus points because the car is an auto with AC. I can see this car being confiscated once it's done.
I would not rebody the Mera onto a new frame... It might or might not be legal, but that's not the point. Not that you are going to make any profit, but a Mera is too rare to let it die or fake all it's parts onto a new frame.
If you have ever watched "Muscle Car" or "Trucks" on The Powerblock they restore cars much worse than this, and they do it using original or reproduction parts.
What I would do is take a good Fiero frame and cut off the parts I needed and use them as donors for the Mera. That's going to cost a lot, but I think it would be worth it.
Changing fenders, door skins, hood and other bolt-on parts of a car is perfectly legal. This happens all the time when people get into an accident. The illegal/unethical part would be if I passed it off as an original, knowing that it's not. I have titles for both cars.
I don't think you understand the extent of the rust on this thing. The firewall gone. I can't even close the rear hatch. The radiator support is gone, the front bumper bracket broke due to rust and it FELL OFF while it was being transported down here. Luckily it caught on the wheel lift and wasn't lost or damaged. Every piece of chassis I can see if badly rusted. I think the car sat near the beach with the salt blowing on it for 2-3 years. At the very least the body needs to come off to fix everything. I'll make a final determination at that point if the car is realistically salvageable. At some point I have to take finances into the equation. Is it really worth spending serious coin on a car that's worth maybe $12k. Granted, I got the car for a song and dance and the donor car was free... but I can't imagine how much rust repair is lurking under that pretty 'glass body.
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11:27 PM
CoolBlue87GT Member
Posts: 8447 From: Punta Gorda, Florida, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Anyone notice , looks like that white paint might have a bit of red in it !
I did notice that. The car ha been repainted at least once. Under the moulding above the passenger door is a place where you can see it was white. We weren't sure if that meant the donor vehicle was white and painted red by Corporate Concepts (I'm assuming the roof section is original Fiero?) or if it was origianlly white from Corporate Concepts and the owner painted it red. In any case, I think it'd look like ass if it was white... so red it will be
It was white from the CC factory and has been repainted. There were only 247 of the Meras built and there are likely less than 80 or 90 of them lef in the world. I think that Rodney has somewhere around 60 on his registry. Yours being a 1988 makes it that much better because of the improved suspension. These cars are worth saving and I have seen a Mera sell anywhere from $7K to $21 K depending on condition, engine, etc. The restoration process will take a while but it is worth it and it is very nice to have a limited production original. These are fun cars, attract attention, and handle well with the correct tires.
It takes me about 2 years to almost complete a restoration and I am happey when it is done. One is about 95% complete, another basically needs paint, and the third one is in pieces waiting for the cradle swap (currently in another car), new interior, and paint. Maybe two years if I am lucky. Let me know if you decide to do a restoration and I may be able to offer some advice. BTW, none of mine will have the original engine and I do not believe that will hurt the market value but it will be more fun to drive.
quote
Originally posted by Chad87FB:
I did notice that. The car ha been repainted at least once. Under the moulding above the passenger door is a place where you can see it was white. We weren't sure if that meant the donor vehicle was white and painted red by Corporate Concepts (I'm assuming the roof section is original Fiero?) or if it was origianlly white from Corporate Concepts and the owner painted it red. In any case, I think it'd look like ass if it was white... so red it will be
I was hoping Rondey Dickman would chime in on this thread with his opinion and to see if this car is already in the registry. I shot him an email a couple days ago but no reply yet.
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12:53 PM
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Sep 13th, 2007
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Changing fenders, door skins, hood and other bolt-on parts of a car is perfectly legal. This happens all the time when people get into an accident. The illegal/unethical part would be if I passed it off as an original, knowing that it's not. I have titles for both cars..
Yeah I know, it's just that if you swap frames then MERA no. 8045 VIN 1G2PE1196JP208710 no longer exists
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03:13 PM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15477 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
It appears that it's time to do a frame off rsstoration on that Mera. You can swap all the body parts and build it around a clean 88 space frame then just remove and reweld the serial number plates onto the restored product. There is nothing unique about the space frame used on a Mera so you'd just be replacing OEM parts with the same OEM parts. THis should keep the Mera authenic but authetic/restored not authentic original.
------------------ 87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds 2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress Engine Controls, PCM goodies, re-programming & odd electronics stuff " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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04:07 PM
formulachik Member
Posts: 157 From: West Lafayette, Indiana Registered: May 2007
I did notice that. The car ha been repainted at least once. Under the moulding above the passenger door is a place where you can see it was white. We weren't sure if that meant the donor vehicle was white and painted red by Corporate Concepts (I'm assuming the roof section is original Fiero?) or if it was origianlly white from Corporate Concepts and the owner painted it red. In any case, I think it'd look like ass if it was white... so red it will be
Hmmmm..... I think that 308s/328s look pretty good in white!
Hmmmm..... I think that 308s/328s look pretty good in white!
That's not too shabby... but I still like the red
So far I've stumped 3 different departments within the county asking the question about which VIN will follow the vehicle... but I narrowed it down to a guy I actaully know personally within the Motor Vehicle Control department. I have a message out to him for clarification on which VIN would be considered the "correct" VIN if I swap the pannels onto another chassis. I think I know the answer, but it's always best to get it from the guy who makes the official determination before proceeding.
In the mean time... work has proceeded...
We pulled the 3800SC motor/trans/harnes from it's donor vehicle ('93 Park Avenue Ultra) this week. My thought is that this car needs to have some balls to overcome the "wannabe" factor of a fake Ferrari. :lol: Maybe that's all in my head I'm exploring ways to get 300rwhp out of it and it seems the supercharger is going to be the biggest obstacle. One thing I'll be looking at is a possible conversion from the SC to a Grand National turbo (just the turbo it's self, not the whole GN engine). Cursory glances make it look like a simple conversion, but I've yet to get the blower off for a good look.
Anyone have a good source for upgrade parts for the 4T60-E transmission? There's a trans shop next door I can probably barter some machine work for them to beef up the transmission, but I'd like to be able to point them in the right direction.
While the car is appart it will be stripped down and repainted. Many of the brackets and fasteners are badly rusted so there may be some fabrication involved too. I'll try to get pics and update this thread as progress is made.
Chad
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10:11 PM
Sep 14th, 2007
The Funkmaster Member
Posts: 1541 From: Chilliwack, B.C., Canada Registered: Oct 2004
-Strip the Mera to the bare frame. -Strip the donor car. -Remove the vin plates from the Mera, put them on the donor car, and vice versa. -Put the Mera parts on the donor body (Now the Mera.) -Have the old, rusty frame crushed.
That's just me. I don't see how the law should regulate a frame when it is yours and the donor is yours. I wouldn't sell it, either, so that plays into it. If selling it came into it, I'd be honest, but a frame is a frame.
-Strip the Mera to the bare frame. -Strip the donor car. -Remove the vin plates from the Mera, put them on the donor car, and vice versa. -Put the Mera parts on the donor body (Now the Mera.) -Have the old, rusty frame crushed.
That's just me. I don't see how the law should regulate a frame when it is yours and the donor is yours. I wouldn't sell it, either, so that plays into it. If selling it came into it, I'd be honest, but a frame is a frame.
IMO.
If it were any other car I probably would do the same, but I wouldn't VIN swap a MERA. I know a frame is just a frame, and even it you own both frames, I don't think it's an authentic way to restore the MERA.
.
