DUDE, you are moving right along! Awesome thread! Can't wait to run against the finished project!
somehow i don't think it'd be quite fair till I get the turbo on
but I'll still run ya just for fun.
I'm started the wiring process at this point - I have all the sensor I will be using plugged in and have started to deloom all of the DOHC harness - I've also relocated the purge solenoid to where the EGR was before (deleted in the prom), the O2 sensor plug to the same location and using the EGR wires to plug into the 2bar MAP sensor where the power stearing used to be.
I should make a coment about my standard reassembly procedure.. I use a non-hardening gasket sealant on every gasketed surface (other than headgaskets or exhaust) . its very sticky stuff and will keep it sealed tight (first started using it for waterpumps) but will make disassembly easy because the gasket will not have bonded to the mating surfaces you can usually reuse the paper gaskets after this. Was very helpful when I was working on my old pushrod 3.4 about every weekend tweaking it.
OH yes - also that pesky distributor plug that can't be removed without pulling the rear head... it had obviously been leaking so I picked up a heavy duty replacement O-ring from rodney.. after cleaning the area thuroughly with brake cleaner and letting it dry I remove the Y clamp.. stretched the oring over the head of the plug - raised the plug up as high as it would go.. spread some of the gasket sealer around it then sliped the O-ring into the gap. then clamped it down tight.. I doub't it will be leaking ever again. (the O-ring was about 1/64" thick by the end)
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-07-2005).]
Norms battery box - I'm going to redo my battery hold down.. I think I can make one that'll look better than this but for now here it is...
next.. uh oh whats this.. something is missing...
yep is the engine/trans/cradle
pulled it out to remove the old 2.8 and install the 3.4tdc
I decided to see about using the stock AC lines.. after a few modicications to the end block and some bending of the metal lines right as they come out of the block the lines fit great.. (oh yeah you couldn't do this and keep the coil packs in the stock location..
cradle is out and I started doing my cradle bushings last night.. I documented everything even a short video of how to remove the old bushings much easier than a torche (started with a torche on one to show how slow and messy it was) but when I went to download my pics from the camera most were gone - I'll redo that portion when I do the control arms..
here is the rear craddle bushing.. it may come out on 3 peices (top) or just 2 peices(bottom) but get all of them or the poly won't fit in..
then step by step installation of the poly
and sadly the only photo I have of the front bushings..
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-18-2005).]
I had a small stroke of genious this weekend.. I removed the passenger heater line that wraps around the engine bay top the trunk wall.. cut it up and mounted it to the engine along side the bypass line - now the heater line fromt he LIM goes down around the engine and exists next to the return line..
you can see here how I routed it - for the rubber hose I used the stock rubber hose and cut straigh and 90* bend sections out of it to attach.
really cleans it up I think - you can also see the start of my main coolant routing - thats the stock upper rubber hose mounted in reverse with the stock 2.8 coolant fill cap also backwards. - i ground off the heater and TB coolant lines to be welded shut - then I am going to cut up the stock cross over pipe to use as a coolant down pipe that will mount on the firewall and use the stock lower rubber line to connect to the driver side coolant line. I am reusing as much of the fiero as possible to make it easier to fnd the right parts later. using the coolant fill in this way it will NOT have a thermostat in it - its just an airtight cap that is the highest part in the system to allow me to easily fill the system.
I also routed my fuel lines - that 6$ tool from harbor freight was a gift from God.. worked so well and so easily - the lines routed righ along with the vent line around the engine bay with a duel hose barb fuel filter on the end.. fron there the fuel lines will be rubber to the engine running primarily along the intake tube.
I also ground the dog bone portion off the front head lift loop.. so I can put that bracket back on and use it to lift the engine when necessary.
coming soon is the stock 2.8 dogbone bracket cut up and drilled to mount to the 3.4 .. poly swing arm bushings WITH grease nipple placement
cutting rear springs..
modifying dickmans poly front trans mount to lower the front side 1/2" while using the dodge truck mounts to lower the back side 1.5"
todays progress involved routing the brake booster vacuum line.. bent it out of a 4' section of 3/8" brake line - painted it up and installed
maybe i'm getting carried away with the details - but now every connection to the engine goes forward or left.. all the coolant lines go the fire wall, the wiring goes to the fire wall (although the sparplug wires go to the battery tray) the intake and fuel lines go to the left front corner.. everything is tucked in nice and neat..
next I modified rodney dickmans front poly trans mount bracket to drop the front of the tranny 1/2" +
its now perfectly setup for using the dodge truck mounts for the front engine mount, and the rear tranny mount.. you can see the progression in size down that will rock the engine back in the bay to make more room up front
IP: Logged
09:59 PM
SOULCRUSHER Member
Posts: 1012 From: Waldorf, MD Registered: May 2004
Now its clear to me, you were explaining things to me at the track and I got kinda lost. Not familiar with the hose routings on the 3.4. But these pics tell the story. You are moving right along, awesome. That brake upgrade, will it work on 88's?
Now its clear to me, you were explaining things to me at the track and I got kinda lost. Not familiar with the hose routings on the 3.4. But these pics tell the story. You are moving right along, awesome. That brake upgrade, will it work on 88's?
if you want to retain your 88 calipers then you can just use adaptors to move them farther out and use 12" brake rotors.. these brakes could work I think if you wanted to go to cheaper calipers but would need different caliper adaptors made.. I think Will or gxrbobby is making a brake upgrade for the 88's at a really good price.
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-22-2005).]
todays progress involved removing the torsion springs from the decklid - cutting the passenger side hinge and support.. trimming back the battery tray to use for mounting the coilpacks.. and of course mounting a gas lift-strut
for the trim work
now for the mounting of the strut.. first I picked up a "gas charged lift support" for a 94 buick park avenue for $24
I then took a small peice of 1.5"x1.5" aluminum angle and trimmed it to look nice filed it smooth and painted it black I had to trim the dogbone bolt cover peice to fit snugly around it.
I bolted it to the bracket using a bolt+sliver of rubber hose+lift support+another hose sliver+bracket+nut.. the slices of rubber hose hold it firmly but give it a little room to flex.
I then aligned it to the decklid about 3/4" past the metal hinge and about 1/4" from the bottom of the decklid frame - drilled a hole through the fiberglass into the inner metal rail and screwed a stud into it.. I bottomed a nut down on the rail slipped the lift-support onto the stud and put a second nut ontop of it with some locktite (so that i didn't have to tighen the nut, I could have used two slices of rubber hose again for this end) (note!! this pic is old I had to move the pivot closer to the bottom to give more clearance of the for the support when closed)
I couldn't mount the top end any higher due to the metal rail is no longer there to tap into and the fiberglass can't support that much force, plus any higher and the lift support would have bottomed out and not let the decklid close
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-24-2005).]
I should mention that I first mounted the top end to the hinge bracket where the old torx bolt was holding the tosion spring on, but the strut didn't exert enough force for tho total 4" it had to compress to close..
where I relocated it to now uses the full strut extension.. will hold up a winged decklin no problems, and can still easily be closed. due to needing twice as much travel of the lift support to open the declid also means it opens more slowly (ie non violently, mounted at the hinge it would not lift it at all till it was 3/4 open then would fling it open violently the last bit)
OK update on the gas lift support install.. something I didn't catch right away when I installed it and closed it is that the spport actually was touching the decklid frame when closed and not letting it close freely.. so I notched the decklid a hair
Today's progress involved mounting the drivetrain ot the craddle.. I already showed how I modified Rodney dickamans front transmission mount..
I bought another poly mount identical to the one that rodney dickmans mount uses I cut the ends off of the "preload plate" so that it would sit down in the stock location. the mountign slots lined up with the stock mount holes perfectly.
since the mount holes are centered I then cut slots in the engine bracket to ease the alignment of the engine when mounting to the craddle
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-26-2005).]
I followed that by melting the rubber off of the old rear transmission mount and drilling new holes to mount an "anchor part # 2266 truck engine mount - I drilled a second hole so that the bump on one side of the mount would set down intot he bracket and keep it from spinning when I tighten it on. ***note that the retainer bracket on the side must be removed when using this thin 2266 mount, because it will not allow the transmission bracket to seat on the mount***
after mounting the engine with spec stage 2 clutch to the 4speed transmission you can see how nicely the stock exhaust lines up to leave the car - I'll be replacing the muffler, don't worry
here is the front engine mount using rodney's modified mount - worked out perfectly
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-26-2005).]
OK - I always have people ask me about drilling out bushings and how to install grease fittings for poly bushings.. so here it is
I take a medium drill bit, about 1/4-3/8" and drill around the inner sleeve of the bushing - it usually starts to walk itself around the sleeve till the sleeve falls out but sometimes it takes a little work.. then if necessary I repeat the process just inside the outter sleeve -- this whole process takes about 2-5 minutes and then the sleve is empty and clean.
after pressing the poly bushing in I then take a drill bit of the proper size for the grease nipple (in this case 1/4") and drill just through the metal
then I use a smaller drill (1/8") and drill through the poly and through both sizes of the inner sleeve (this allows the grease to get all the way around the bushing althought you could grind a grouve around the sleeve before installing)
and then install the grease fitting
here you can see the angle of the nipples with the swing arm in its normal resting position.. easilly accessed for filling
decided to do a little cosmetic work today and start modifying the kmunson flushmount headligh parts I purchased.. There is still a bunch of finsih work left to make them look finished - but the mechanicals are complete..
I photo edited to show some of my plans for changing the shape of the headlights..
here is head on with all 3 bulbs on at each being a 55watt bulb soon I will replace one bulb on each side with a 100watt bulb for the highbeams
yeah I got some arc tan last night for sure on my shins and arms
take a look at just how short this system is - its a 2.5" high flow cat down to two 2.25" turbo tube mufflers - should flow plenty well despite the T I had to do to get it all to fit.
finished up the exhaust and painted it high temp gloss black to hide it from view
then I got to work making a front engine restraint to take some of the load off of the dogbone.. I cut up the brace that attached the 2.8 dogbone tot he front head of the 2.8 and used its nice 1/4" thick steel to form a rather ridged bracket on the cradle then painted it gloss black also.
starting wiring.. the process I've been using is this.. remove the fiero wiring harness from car.. position all sensors on the 3.4 where I want them and put in dummy leads showing the length needed to get to them to the engine harness (the part that can unplug from the main harness for easy removal - I removed the EGR and Crank sensor which left wires available for the wastegate solenoid , MAT sensor and a spare for something.
I did the splicing on these wires and wrapped it back up
next I removed the main 3.4 wiring harness and cut the connectors off both the engine and ecm ens with about 6" of wire hanging off
I plugged the engine connectors into the upper harness and used a meter to check the leads to each sensor and labled the wires. - once these were labeles I reinstaled the upper harness on the engine and tightened it back up.
next I took the ECM connectors and this is a step most of you will never have to do.. but since I am running a turbo grand prix ecm I had to repin the connectors.. it was actually really easy.. there is a red clip that holes everything in - remove that and the wires and blankoff plugs slide right out. after going through and repinning everything to where it was needed and approximately the correct color wire I labeled them and closed it back up.
next I labeled the pertinent wires going into the fiero ecm plugs - most importantly anything that does go to the engine bay.. cut the connectors off and then used my environmentally sealing crimp connectors to start splicing the fiero harness to the 3.4 ecm connectors.
the next step will be to cut the engine end off of the fiero wiring harness, add any additional wires needed and pass them through the bulkhead connector, then reloom everything.
you can see the pile of wire loom and unused wires from the 3.4 harness in the corner - i'll have plenty of wire to splice in if needed.
took it all out and scrubbed it down with denatured alchohal - let it dry then sprayed it out with duplicolor vinyl color the store ran out of duplicolor so i grabbed some krylon and man the krylon was horrible.. it fisheyed like crazy and on some things would stay tacky for several days all the while advertising it dries in 12 minutes or less.. i will never buy krylon again
ok here are a few of the many components purchased for the turbo portion of this swap -
T04E 60 trim t3/t4 turbo - some 2.5" and 3" mandrel bend pipe, 40" braided stainless oil feed line other parts purchased included many brass fittings, an oil filter relocation kit from summitracing.com that was modified for the turbo oil feed, some 1/2" solid flexible copper line for the oil return line, a 3" diameter flex exhaust peice 4" long, a super compact 3" cat converter that was 8" long, a 2.5"-3" exhaust flair, an internal wastegate flapper valve, a 24x9x3" cored aluminum bar and plate intercooler rated for 800hp, a 9" 1200cfm fan for the intercooler (I can fit another one if it needs it), a turboXS blow off valve reusing the two tube mufflers..
finding a location to fit the turbo was possibly the hardest part next to actually holding it in place while tack welding the exhaust peices
the stock crossover pipe is 2.25" so I used matching 2.25" mandrel bent tubing to plumb it in
the internal wastegate flapper valve housing was bored out to match the ID of 2.5" tubing and the 2.5" bend was welded directly to the housing - followed by the 2.5"-3" flare and the 3" flex peice and topped off with a V-band clamp flange for clean installation and ease of assembly - oh yes and two O2 bungs.
in this picture you can spot the solid copper oil return line - this was mounted with compression fittings to the turbo and to a peice of 1/2" steel tubing that I welded to the oil pan
a 24x9x3" core intercooler originally rated for 800hp tig welded and modified to become a one ended setup in order to fit in the fiero along with a 1200-1400cfm 9" fan that draws very minimal power
the fan was wired into the trunk fan relay - there is a coolant fan override switch inside the car to turn all the fans on at will
the view of anyone who happens to look under the car
on closer inspection you can see the sligh angle to the intercooler to help encourage airflow
ok so here is the 3" cat welded to the other flange of the v-band clamp merged onto the twin 2.25" tube mufflers
and yes that is another O2 sensor - this one is for the wideband O2 setup
and here is the new dogbone - its rubber so as to not over stress the lift hoop (the rest of the mounts are poly and when driven without this dogbone the engine did not move - but i like redundancy)
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 09-15-2005).]
IP: Logged
03:12 PM
MDFierolvr Member
Posts: 2025 From: Great Mills, MD Registered: Mar 2004
i should post an update about those stupid aftermarket silicon vac lines - i've had to remove most of them and replace with stiff rubber lines - after heating up they were getting sucked shut which was first noticed with the BOV acting funny
i still have the large breather lines hooked up but the pcv line is sucking a little bit shut when i gas it in neutral.. but i figure if there is any blowby then it won't get sucked flat anyways
I just read your build thread for the first time, and really like what you have done. I have thought about doing a 3.4 dohc swap, but I'm not sure how much one actually ends up costing.
IP: Logged
12:43 AM
pavo_roddy Member
Posts: 4351 From: State with a city named Gotham Registered: Apr 2004
I have thought about doing a 3.4 dohc swap, but I'm not sure how much one actually ends up costing.
Hi all,
The only real way to get an idea on how much a swap for certain engines is to check out West Coast Fiero's webpage on engine conversions.....BY NO MEANS is this ironclad, with shopping, you could do it for less than what they say....This is just a target price for there customers to see......When you click on the link, you'll be at thier homepage, look for the link entititled " engine conversions" the first link on that page with be about the 3.4 dohc.............Hope this helps.............
I just read your build thread for the first time, and really like what you have done. I have thought about doing a 3.4 dohc swap, but I'm not sure how much one actually ends up costing.
well I can give a bit of a price break down - a good deal of my total cost has been buying some new tools - like a brand new mig welder, a full emulator/chip burner from moats.net etc.. but for a basic NA 3.4 dohc setup.. the basics are
3.4 engine 500-1000$ (I paid 1000 for an engine that drove into the junk yard with 50K) spec clutch 300$ 88 flywheel 65$ rodney dickman front tranny mount 55$ i think energy suspension tranny mount for use as front engine mount 25$ dodge truck mount for rear tranny mount 5$ poly sway bar end links for lower engine torque strut 10$ pack of 100 environmentally sealed crimp connectors 40$ (to do my own wiring - or you can pay Erik 200$ to do all of it for you) gas lift strut for decklid 25$ summit mandrel bent exhaust tubing 60$ two tube mufflers 80$ one high flow mini cat 60$ off ebay 150$ new two chrome ehxuast tips 70$ 5/16 and 3/8" steel brake line for fuel lines (or use a set of 4cyl fiero fuel lines) 10$
thats basicly all the essentials if you fabricate a few things for yourself -utilize all the stock fiero hoses -modify the stock fiero fill neck and weld it to half of the original coolant crossover pipe in order to create your drivers side coolant tube with filler cap. -modify the stock rear tranny mount to accept the dodge truck mount, as well as modifying the stock front engine mount bracket to bolt to the enegery suspension mount
I also incured a few extra expenses due to the turbo setup.. but thats not for everyone
IP: Logged
08:32 AM
I wear pants Member
Posts: 579 From: Columbus, IN Registered: Jun 2005
well I can give a bit of a price break down - a good deal of my total cost has been buying some new tools - like a brand new mig welder, a full emulator/chip burner from moats.net etc.. but for a basic NA 3.4 dohc setup.. the basics are
3.4 engine 500-1000$ (I paid 1000 for an engine that drove into the junk yard with 50K) spec clutch 300$ 88 flywheel 65$ rodney dickman front tranny mount 55$ i think energy suspension tranny mount for use as front engine mount 25$ dodge truck mount for rear tranny mount 5$ poly sway bar end links for lower engine torque strut 10$ pack of 100 environmentally sealed crimp connectors 40$ (to do my own wiring - or you can pay Erik 200$ to do all of it for you) gas lift strut for decklid 25$ summit mandrel bent exhaust tubing 60$ two tube mufflers 80$ one high flow mini cat 60$ off ebay 150$ new two chrome ehxuast tips 70$ 5/16 and 3/8" steel brake line for fuel lines (or use a set of 4cyl fiero fuel lines) 10$
thats basicly all the essentials if you fabricate a few things for yourself -utilize all the stock fiero hoses -modify the stock fiero fill neck and weld it to half of the original coolant crossover pipe in order to create your drivers side coolant tube with filler cap. -modify the stock rear tranny mount to accept the dodge truck mount, as well as modifying the stock front engine mount bracket to bolt to the enegery suspension mount
I also incured a few extra expenses due to the turbo setup.. but thats not for everyone
That is alot less than I expected, makes me alot more interested in this swap. How hard do you think the wiring is to do yourself?
That is alot less than I expected, makes me alot more interested in this swap. How hard do you think the wiring is to do yourself?
the wiring scared me to death so i sat down with the wiring diagrams and started to try to color code and cross refference and just gave myself a headache..
finally I just cut the connectors off each thing with as much wire attached to each connector as I could and attached a label of what that wire was for to each one - then just connected matching labels - took about 6 hours spread over 3 evenings in the dining room
its not that bad when you are only worrying about 1 wire at a time
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-24-2005).]
- I'll redo that portion when I do the control arms..
