i think ive seen 3 homebrew chop top threads in the last 2 years... not one of them have been finished, or even updated for that matter... so im not holding my breath...
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04:24 AM
Midshipman Easy Member
Posts: 198 From: San Antonio TX Registered: Dec 2003
Sorry for lack of updates but nothing much to report til rather recently. My body guy has cut out my front radiator core support and is welding in a new one today. Ive got a guy lined up ready to make my backglass in safety for 40 bucks as soon as its welded. We are going to cut out the top of the roof and move the metal window lip back in order to use resuse a stock front glass and Ive come across a way to UNtemper a piece of glass and get it cut so Ill be able to reuse my stock side windows after cutting them down. (The way ive done my chop top I did not need to bend in the B pillars so the angle has not changed.)
Im not in a rush.. Id rather it be done right then just done and its being garage kept at no charge to me so I'm not worried about it rusting out any time soon.
Ken
P.s. Thanks though for keeping the post alive, eventually it will get finished.
[This message has been edited by Midshipman Easy (edited 06-27-2005).]
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10:58 AM
joshua riedl Member
Posts: 1426 From: watertown wi USA Registered: Jan 2004
i think ive seen 3 homebrew chop top threads in the last 2 years... not one of them have been finished, or even updated for that matter... so im not holding my breath...
it's ignorant ass comments like this why i don't update my project. just for conversations sake, how many archie chop tops do you think are finished? i bet nobody dares to touch that question. i can think of one in particular that was "finished" by archie, been through 3 owners now and the interior is still multiple colors. maybe you should start holding your breath, it'll save you from your smart mouth.
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11:05 AM
Will-Martin Member
Posts: 1164 From: DFW, TX, USA Registered: Aug 2002
i think ive seen 3 homebrew chop top threads in the last 2 years... not one of them have been finished, or even updated for that matter... so im not holding my breath...
Prick. Try one yourself.
[This message has been edited by Will-Martin (edited 06-27-2005).]
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11:32 AM
Aug 7th, 2005
exoticse Member
Posts: 8654 From: Orlando, Fl Registered: Jun 2003
it's ignorant ass comments like this why i don't update my project. just for conversations sake, how many archie chop tops do you think are finished? i bet nobody dares to touch that question. i can think of one in particular that was "finished" by archie, been through 3 owners now and the interior is still multiple colors. maybe you should start holding your breath, it'll save you from your smart mouth.
You must br refferring to the GBCT (only chop that has had 3 owners as far as I can think of). When I got the car, it had the stock 87 interior along with dash panels that were colormatched to the exterior, as well as the engine valve covers. I added black carpet to match the custom black leather seats Archie already had, and I also added black carpet to the door panels as well as colored the rest of the door panels black. I also added a custom steering wheel I got from Ausfiero that was blue and chrome and a blue Momo Raptor shift knob. I also added Mr. Mikes floormats w/ blue trim, when he used to make those, that also had a "LT1 Fiero" logo in blue. The only thing I never got around to changing was the dash and the custom panels Archie had to modify because of the chop. I know DL10 has added new carbon fiber dash panels...and I have no idea what else You can see from the pictures below that even though the interior is "mulitple colors" it still looks tastful for a $20k Chop Top Fiero (of which at the time there were only 3) and would still place at shows. New / old pic
------------------
[This message has been edited by Falcon Fiero (edited 08-11-2005).]
He could be talking about the black chop top or maybe even the PPE as they have changed hands a couple of times. But really is any Fiero ever really done?
It's not fair to single out chop tops and complain that the homemade type never get done. Archie chopped my top a year ago and it still doesn't have paint so there.
Anyway the chop top owners past, present and future support you, no matter how long it takes.
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08:41 PM
Aug 19th, 2005
Midshipman Easy Member
Posts: 198 From: San Antonio TX Registered: Dec 2003
Thanks for the show of support JScott much luck on yours! Some progress to report finally. The new front radiator support has finally been weled in and it looks good. And Ive finally got my back glass made!... 40 bucks plus tax.. its safety glass by the way. The glass company finally got it right on the third try, they said the new curve was tricky and ruined two getting it right. I only had to pay for one so much Thanks to NAACO of San Antonio for thier good customer services. Hoping to have it mounted by this saturday and start on the front windshield. Ken
That's a great price, can you PM me the contact info for the glass? I need to have rear glass made for my homemade chop top. Maybe they know how to do it now.
Ahhh sorry about not responding to the first request for an update... Well The front A pillar passenger side is now welded and working the other side.. The Biggest piece of news comes from F355Spyder though and his tempered glass buy. I have bought a set and awaiting delivery for sometime after Thanksgiving. The exciting bit is that the pictures look like a spot on match and in speaking to F355Spyder looks like it will be an even better fit then on his car since I had no need to bend in my B Pillars. Therefore less of a curve in the glass needed and no need to cut my side rails. Im hoping to get with F355Spyder even this weekend (as my weekend freed up) and he has generously offered to bring his spare set down and let me match it up.. Ill be sure to let you all know if i get lucky or not.. I wish I had held off welding the A pillars cause then I could have ensured it was a perfect fit. I could always undo the work and reweld again. But with the glass buy and fit All the hardest bits are done.. Ill have a new stock front windshield, the proper rear window and now the side glass and can get it out of the shop and start putting it back together.
I appreciate your interest. Well 3/4 of the welding is done. F355Spider has been kind enough to send me a paper template of the tempered glass windows and it was a spot on fit. It shouldnt be but another 2 weeks before they arrive and my glass will be complete all the way around.. I promise to post a pic the second all the glass is installed. Im very much looking forward to dragging the body home so i can start putting it all back together, shes been away from home for too long now.
Im terrible about updating.. I havent even updated my website.. but since i got asked .. About 3 weeks ago I picked up my windows from F355Spider and they were exactly what he claimed them to be ( shout out Thanks to Mike, especially for taking me and later my gf for an awe inspiring ride in his 4 inch drop top , Northstar V8 ! She had been ever more understanding about the money im spending since that experience! Thanks again ) .. smoked, professional looking, dot approved and last night I spent the evening stripping the door inner and outer skins so the glass guy could drill out the old window and put in the new ones. I've been waiting on the install so I could get the new Dew Strips and they arrived from the dealer two days ago.. $135.12,from what i understand that wasnt a bad deal, though i wasnt to happy about the price. I just had time to hold the window up to the door frame but sadly didnt have time to snap a picture.. I can say they were as close to a perfect fit as I could hope for considering they werent made for my car at all! The good news is I will not have to reweld the other already welded A pillar or do any cutting on my door frame since I dont have the sever angles. I would have to say since they fit my 2 and 2 1/2 inch drop in the front and they fit his 4 inch drop, I cant see why it would not fit the typical 3 inch drop! From what I have seen the A frame angle comes out pretty standard and its simply a matter of rotating the glass a tiny fraction ( necessary for me since i raked my roof) But its all a bit academic since the door seals more then make up for any differences one is likely to encounter.
I know everyone loves pictures so I'll go to the shop tonight to take some for posting later this evening or tommorow.
The gap in the front might present some problems... I should have taken a picture of the gap i had in the back. I just did a few quick shots.. when i tested it last night we used the rubber seal and it didnt seem to be problem at that time. Its certainly not a problem on F355Spiders car and it not like the door length has changed.
That looks like one hell of a project! Good luck with that mang!
------------------ '96 Schwarz II BMW 328is, UUC SS, CDV delete, M3 exhaust, M3 FX, 18x8" ROH Drift/Toyo Proxes, DEpoo Projectors/Chromiums/6000k HID, clears all around, Blau ICE, more go fast mods soon! '86 Polaris-Metallic BMW 325E, stock 5-spd cpe. '87 Fiero GT *show winning* SOLD http://evolutionsnp.com <-THE place for BMW work.
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11:57 PM
Oct 11th, 2006
Midshipman Easy Member
Posts: 198 From: San Antonio TX Registered: Dec 2003
Sorry I havent been on PFF in a while. Well the welding is done and Im waiting on the front and rear glass to be installed. It doesnt look like ill have to rework my a pillar (inner) arms to match the windows. Im good to go there. Once the glass is installed the frame is to be brought home.. About time i know ! and things should progress more quickly. One thing you all might find interesting and i wish i had a picture to show was the extension of the windows A frame where the glass seals. We had to add a strip of metal as the stock windshield had a large gap at the top as a result of widened my roof by 2 inches. As a result my A frame covers will have to be widened and with the wider roof should look alot different then the 'stock' choptop.Plus i intended to raise my mirrors up off the door. Ill post some pixs shortlly.
i think ive seen 3 homebrew chop top threads in the last 2 years... not one of them have been finished, or even updated for that matter... so im not holding my breath...
Look for Orville's threads to see completed home-brews. He has already finished the chop on another one. The mistake that most people doing home-brews make is that you have to decide on a windshield first and build the car to fit it. If you build the car and then hope to find a windshield to fit it, you'll find that you wasted a lot of time and effort. Orville's first two chops used a wider AND longer roof and also a wider windshield. His latest one actually uses a bit shorter roof section and a Mitsubishi windshield. (The first two use Oldsmobile windshields.)
------------------ 4th Annual California Coast Run October 27-29, 2006 San Simeon, California
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10:01 AM
Midshipman Easy Member
Posts: 198 From: San Antonio TX Registered: Dec 2003
Tempering glass is a very precise process involving heating and cooling in a very specific manner.. Untempering glass is simply a matter of heating it up and letting it cool down uncontrolled.. .it could then be cut and retempered.. Having said that one would still need a form to hold the glass in the shape that is required to be tempered in. The guy who offered to do the untempering and tempering for me does it all the time for glass used in telescope and was willing to help me out if it was 13 inches in diameter or less. So of course that wasnt really a help.. Turns out didnt need to go to any extremes like this as F355Spyder came thru in the end like he always does and now i have my tempered side glass.
Yes Orvilles work is awesome. The changes to the A pillar are minor and will be simply result in a slightly wider a frame covering.
If you build the car and then hope to find a windshield to fit it, you'll find that you wasted a lot of time and effort
This is why I have a homebrewed with no windshield. It's impossible to find a windshield that will fit a randomly chopped car. I intend to extend the lower end of the windshield frame like Orville did and probably use the stock Fiero windshield. Yeah the A pillar fram covers will be a little wider at the bottom, but it will be minor, maybe an inch or two at the most.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 10-12-2006).]
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11:14 AM
slickrick2000 Member
Posts: 1369 From: Temecula, California Registered: Oct 2004
Tempering glass is a very precise process involving heating and cooling in a very specific manner.. Untempering glass is simply a matter of heating it up and letting it cool down uncontrolled.. .it could then be cut and retempered..
What temperature does the glass need to be heated to untemper it. Is it less than what it takes to melt carbon steel?
This makes sense to me. I may have to try something here.
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08:11 PM
Midshipman Easy Member
Posts: 198 From: San Antonio TX Registered: Dec 2003
Scientic America has this to say about Tempered Glass
Tempered glass is about four times stronger than "ordinary," or annealed, glass. And unlike annealed glass, which can shatter into jagged shards when broken, tempered glass fractures into small, relatively harmless pieces. As a result, tempered glass is used in those environments where human safety is an issue. Applications include side and rear windows in vehicles, entrance doors, shower and tub enclosures, racquetball courts, patio furniture, microwave ovens and skylights. To prepare glass for the tempering process, it must first be cut to the desired size. (Strength reductions or product failure can occur if any fabrication operations, such as etching or edging, take place after heat treatment.) The glass is then examined for imperfections that could cause breakage at any step during tempering. An abrasive—such as sandpaper—takes sharp edges off the glass, which is subsequently washed
Next, the glass begins a heat treatment process in which it travels through a tempering oven, either in a batch or continuous feed. The oven heats the glass to a temperature of more than 600 degrees Celsius. (The industry standard is 620 degrees Celsius.) The glass then undergoes a high-pressure cooling procedure called "quenching." During this process, which lasts just seconds, high-pressure air blasts the surface of the glass from an array of nozzles in varying positions. Quenching cools the outer surfaces of the glass much more quickly than the center. As the center of the glass cools, it tries to pull back from the outer surfaces. As a result, the center remains in tension, and the outer surfaces go into compression, which gives tempered glass its strength. Glass in tension breaks about five times more easily than it does in compression. Annealed glass will break at 6,000 pounds per square inch (psi). Tempered glass, according to federal specifications, must have a surface compression of 10,000 psi or more; it generally breaks at approximately 24,000 psi.
Another approach to making tempered glass is chemical tempering, in which various chemicals exchange ions on the surface of the glass in order to create compression. But because this method costs far more than using tempering ovens and quenching, it is not widely used.
And by the way my glass was put in just this evening.. atleast the front and rear ones.. and I hope to have it trailered home perhaps even this weekend.. either way Ill try and get some pictures posted.
Jscott.. perhaps you can try what i did with reworking the frame to use a stock shield... rather then try and describe it poorly ill post the pics. ------------------ http://www.beattoquarters.com --- My Projects Page
[This message has been edited by Midshipman Easy (edited 10-12-2006).]
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09:41 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
This is why I have a homebrewed with no windshield. It's impossible to find a windshield that will fit a randomly chopped car. I intend to extend the lower end of the windshield frame like Orville did and probably use the stock Fiero windshield. Yeah the A pillar fram covers will be a little wider at the bottom, but it will be minor, maybe an inch or two at the most.
Yeah, I was watching the build of that car back before you bought it. I knew it would end badly. I'm glad you ended up with it and will hopefully finish it one day. I thought about using the last extra set of T-tops I had and my old Formula to do a chop 'Orville style' but both are long sold now. Orville's way is about the only way to chop a T-top because the roof has to go straight down instead of back.
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10:07 PM
Oct 13th, 2006
Midshipman Easy Member
Posts: 198 From: San Antonio TX Registered: Dec 2003
Well here are some pixs of the A frame mod we made so i could still use the stock windshield. Yes it is 'different' LOL but with the glass on the window, it looks just fine,the frame cover will simply be a bit wider.. which leaves us with the interior. The triangle on the inside is noticeable but will simply be covered by custom a frame cover and the metal at the top will make a nice place to put a tweeter, which is my first thought on how to fill the space. Ill post pix inside and out with the window one later.
I know the definition of done is rather a personal thing but for me this is complete. The chop is done, I have glass windows all around, and now im ready to move to the next phase of my plan. Body restoration and preservation. In case your wondering i did not have to modify my A frame arms at all to fit the glass. I have yet to mount the side glass due to two very good reasons. One i swapped my manual windows for powered and the guide rails are not adjusted properly (ill use my regular windows to gross adjust them and two Ill be mounting lambo door hinges and I dont wish to break my literally one of 16 sets in the world while installing them. Does anyone have a set they bought from Mike but no longer wish to own??? Im interested as i should have bought two sets!
Much Thanks to all that posted in my thread and provided me the encouragement to have the patience to wait for this great day!
I know done is a relative term. In intend soon to roll my homebrewed chop top into the garage for some corrective surgery. But once I have glass all the way around then it's all downhill from there.
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12:36 AM
RCR Member
Posts: 4416 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
This has been an awesome project so far, with a good eye for detail. Can't wait to see how it progresses. Also, if you put the tweeters up high, what will you fill the a-pillar holes with next to the Grand Am dash?
Bob
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08:32 AM
Midshipman Easy Member
Posts: 198 From: San Antonio TX Registered: Dec 2003
Hi RCR, Ive been following your thread very very closely you can bet! Imagine my dissapointment to read that your making your door panels one-offs instead of molding them. But im not bitter about that oh no! Thanks for the compliment! Well instead of tweeters, I saw at wally world a 28 dollar bluetooth hands free speaker system. Plugs into your lighter. If i hack out the lighter plug and wire it directly to my cars power I could perhaps mold it in and have a nicely placed wireless speaker phone. One for the driver and one for the passanger. You know gadget it up!
So about those door molds????
Jscott, Well hang in there. I guess im lucky in the fact ive only got one to take care of ! Cant imagine trying to upkeep upgrade all of them like you got.
If you need any info, shoot me an email.
