I am planning all of the work that I am doing to my car to finish a month or two before this show. I am definitely planning on coming. New engine, new paint/body work... yea. This should be good.

I missed the 20 by just a coulpe of weeks. I bought my fiero that month, but the meet had already taken place. I wish I had known about it then. I am bound and determind to get to this one. I made it to all the shows this year except MI because MFF was having there's at the same time. If I did that, I can make it to this. I can't wait, but will have to til 2008, lol

if I remember correctly, there were convoy routes posted during the 20th show, .......maybe some preliminary ones can be shown/posted again to give people an idea of routes/planning etc...

this one sounds like another massive show, woohoo! getting excited already! glad there's alot of notice given!!!

quote Originally posted by OHNIKO: if I remember correctly, there were convoy routes posted during the 20th show, .......maybe some preliminary ones can be shown/posted again to give people an idea of routes/planning etc... this one sounds like another massive show, woohoo! getting excited already! glad there's alot of notice given!!!

Hey Nick, gonna camp this one two or you gonna get a hotel room this time?

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Go FIERO!!!!!! The only shows that will make me sleep on the ground or in the car it self. lol How many people camped for this event last time?

quote Originally posted by x-thumpr-x: Hey Nick, gonna camp this one two or you gonna get a hotel room this time?

I'd imagine I'll be around for this one still. I'll be camping again if I do go...

There were quite a few of us that camped... I don't think I could come up with a number.

Brad

[This message has been edited by BtotheB (edited 10-28-2006).]

I can't wait, especially if you have a stock fiero. I heard the rumor is they are going to have a COMPLETE check list for the cars judge of each year and model in the stock classes. "This might be like a pebble beach show" Which I think is great! Instead of like the 20th where they just judge the cars on just being clean and took off points for to little of armoral or to much armoral or overspray of armoral. Now they will look for correctness (like the right fender bolt and not a sheet metal screw) I saw a car win third at the 20th with it, but his car was really clean (get my point) Hopefully they can start a thread asking OUR input or maybe I will, YEAH I think I will do it! Of things they should make sure to look for on their judging sheet of the stock fieros and pertain to that year. That way there will be no excuss for them to say they didn't think to look for this or that. Don't take my rambling as being bitter I took second place and I couldn't beat the first place guy at that time, because I know him and he does have a excellent fiero, Plus a 3 time POCI National car as well. But at the 25th I will give it my best shot.

quote Originally posted by FIERO JOHN-WI: I can't wait, especially if you have a stock fiero. I heard the rumor is they are going to have a COMPLETE check list for the cars judge of each year and model in the stock classes. "This might be like a pebble beach show" Which I think is great! Instead of like the 20th where they just judge the cars on just being clean and took off points for to little of armoral or to much armoral or overspray of armoral. Now they will look for correctness (like the right fender bolt and not a sheet metal screw) I saw a car win third at the 20th with it, but his car was really clean (get my point) Hopefully they can start a thread asking OUR input or maybe I will, YEAH I think I will do it! Of things they should make sure to look for on their judging sheet of the stock fieros and pertain to that year. That way there will be no excuss for them to say they didn't think to look for this or that. Don't take my rambling as being bitter I took second place and I couldn't beat the first place guy at that time, because I know him and he does have a excellent fiero, Plus a 3 time POCI National car as well. But at the 25th I will give it my best shot.

The only way you can do this kind of show is if you do like they do in Bloomington Gold. Each car is up against a point system and it earns a Gold, Silver, Bronze or nothing based on the correctness of the resto.

On the down side is that the cost to restore a Fiero to there standard would be more than most Fiero's and the low milage cars [20 miles or less] that many people stored away would have a great advantage.

Finally there still is a lot of politics involved here and arguing.

Untill there is a strong club or restoration society is formed to set standards for such an event and to preserve those standards over the years I don't this working or stopping all the problems. Each year of car would need to be documentented and stated as what is correct and what is not acceptable for every little thing on the car before the show. Just having a few guys that have restored Fiero's just won't cut it as we know everyone is an expert [ha ha].

The fact is untill there is a group like the one that over sees Bloomington is formed there is a lot of work no one is willing or wants to do for free. At this point I don't see a group being formed since we can't even get a good national club started.

The good thing about the Fiero is they are cheap to buy and rerstore vs most car but in the end the price we pay is that few are willing to lay out the money to support the clubs or groups that could provide what many other enjoy in the clubs around Shelby's, Vettes etc.

The sad part is not matter what you do someone will be upset! It just a shame people let ego's take over for just a $15 award.

At this point judging by an outside group like a GTO club on clean and detail is about all that will be very easy to do in a large group of 500 cars. It may not be the best way to do it but with time, money and support all being factors we have our limits.

I would love a Pebble Beach show but the fact is it is neither cheap or easy to put on. It also would only be effective for the stock car and at most shows they are in the minority.

With an event this large you need to keep it simple and as fair as possible as that is all you can do. You just not going to have the proper staff, time and funds to get too crazy.

I have run the judging for 2 event a year with over 500 vehicles at each. They are not exactly the way I would like to really see them done but they are built to be the best we can under the limits we have. I can give the figures publicly but we are much better funded than any Fiero event ever held and even we have our limits.

Who ever set this up I just hope they can keep it as fair as they can and not over complicate this for their own good.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 10-29-2006).]

HyperV6, out of all the Fiero people I know I would think you would be the last to be so Negitive. You have to start some where, Rome wasn't built in a day, but you have to start. Honestly I was upset with your commits about that it's something that could happen in the future. HOW long do we need, the cars are going towards 25 years! Do you think we should wait another 25? I'm not one to pick a fight as many here know myself, but we have to take a stand and start somewhere and I hope we can all contribute. We have 2 years till the 25th to get something, instead of just looking at wheel tubs for dirt and to much armoral as a point system! True we don't have a National Club that has standard guide line rules, But that doesn't mean we all put are hands in the air and point at FOCOA, WORLDWIDE FIERO CLUB, FOA or AMERICAN FIERO CLUB and say it's there fault. Thats OVER (can't rewrite the past) But we have to move on and make a effort, especially so our history of our cars are not loss. Am I expecting a Concours like Pebble Beach at the 25th, NO but at least let's all start in the right direction and help with this, so we just don't have a show judged on shinny tires!
I am a positive person with a passion for this car, it doesn't have be that hard, especially if you divide it up. Have a group of people (about 10) that know more about a certain year and model. Write what to look for on that year and model. Do that for all of them compile it all together a ruff draft. Tweak it a little each year and we will get there I promise you, but doing nothing just make us as fiero owners quit on this car just like GM did! and we are all that car has!
Once we have a standard and it's out there yeah people will b#tch for a year or 2 but it becomes the expected and the following year you will go to the next event or not, but with no guide lines or ones made up once they get to a show will always cause more b#tching, because they don't know what to expect. Who knows if we can get a guide line draft, we could get it to POCI Nationals in Tusla, OK, and have something like the GTO Judge has for it's car and that I might add was done by owners, who wanted to see there car represented accurately.
Just my 2 cents!
Help the cause, don't be a passer by.

I hope this thread doesn't turn into a complaint about the judging for the next two years. My cars are not stock, never will be, to a Pebble Beach type judging has no value to me. Also, I am never going to clean them well enough to win any car cleaning contests either, so judging to me is irrelevant.

I intend to come to the 25th and meet all the owners and see all the cars. If there is drive through judging I won't be submitting any car I have for judging. That takes way too much time away from the real purpose of the shows and that is mingling with all the other people.

Well said JScott!

Fiero John...Take it easy...Trying to find a Judging standard is like art. They are both very subjective. I am sure the best solution will come to the top.

Good luck!

quote Originally posted by FIERO JOHN-WI: HyperV6, out of all the Fiero people I know I would think you would be the last to be so Negitive. You have to start some where, Rome wasn't built in a day, but you have to start. Honestly I was upset with your commits about that it's something that could happen in the future. HOW long do we need, the cars are going towards 25 years! Do you think we should wait another 25? I'm not one to pick a fight as many here know myself, but we have to take a stand and start somewhere and I hope we can all contribute. We have 2 years till the 25th to get something, instead of just looking at wheel tubs for dirt and to much armoral as a point system! True we don't have a National Club that has standard guide line rules, But that doesn't mean we all put are hands in the air and point at FOCOA, WORLDWIDE FIERO CLUB, FOA or AMERICAN FIERO CLUB and say it's there fault. Thats OVER (can't rewrite the past) But we have to move on and make a effort, especially so our history of our cars are not loss. Am I expecting a Concours like Pebble Beach at the 25th, NO but at least let's all start in the right direction and help with this, so we just don't have a show judged on shinny tires! I am a positive person with a passion for this car, it doesn't have be that hard, especially if you divide it up. Have a group of people (about 10) that know more about a certain year and model. Write what to look for on that year and model. Do that for all of them compile it all together a ruff draft. Tweak it a little each year and we will get there I promise you, but doing nothing just make us as fiero owners quit on this car just like GM did! and we are all that car has! Once we have a standard and it's out there yeah people will b#tch for a year or 2 but it becomes the expected and the following year you will go to the next event or not, but with no guide lines or ones made up once they get to a show will always cause more b#tching, because they don't know what to expect. Who knows if we can get a guide line draft, we could get it to POCI Nationals in Tusla, OK, and have something like the GTO Judge has for it's car and that I might add was done by owners, who wanted to see there car represented accurately. Just my 2 cents! Help the cause, don't be a passer by.

Not being negitive here just realistic.

I would like to see this get to a real accurate judging for the large national events. The basic problem is that just plain and simple that there is no leadership and group formed that can or will be in place to take care of 500 cars in two years. I think the 30th would be a goal if started right now.

Please check out the mission statment from the National Corvette Restorers Society.

The National Corvette Restorers Society Mission : http://www.ncrs.org/
Formed in 1974, the National Corvette Restorers Society is a non-profit hobby group of 15,000+ families dedicated to the restoration, preservation, history and enjoyment of Corvettes made from the model years 1953 through 1991.

If you are looking for a 1953 - 91 Corvette: The seller is telling you "the numbers match". Do you know what they mean? Are they truthful? Join the NCRS and learn from all of the information we have gathered in the last 30 years to make a wise decision when you purchase your Corvette.

If you already own a 1953 - 91 Corvette: No matter what you are up to, NCRS members have been there before. Benefit from all of the information we have gathered in the last 30 years to make better and smarter decisions as you restore and maintain your valuable Corvette.

I would check out the NCRS and pattern it after them. They have set the standard for this kind of preservation and have lead the way to making sure resto parts were available to complete these cars. Lets face it right now the Fiero Store is about it and NOS parts are getting rare. Most resto parts at this point will not sell in numbers high enough to be reproduced cheaply and many Fiero peole do not or can not afford to spend the money to buy the parts. The T op gaskets are a good example, everyone wants them but no one wants to pny up and pay what it would take to make them.

Also till the value of the Fiero start to climb higher there is little market to restore these to stock as it would cost more than restoring to modified form. Why put $15K into a car worth $5K.

Anyway the way to start is learn and read up on the NCRS and speak to them as they could save us some time and problems by learning from their mistakes.

Also the need for a real club to take up and help promote this would be great. A privately run club would be good as one of the best Shelby clubs today is strong well run and has preserved the history for the future collectors. As a business it would allow someone to dedicate the time and effort that it takes to run a club vs just a volenteer post would have. It takes a lot of time for someone to do this and they should be compensated for it.

The bottom line is for the 25th I would just concentrate on making it run as smooth as possible with 500 plus cars and keep it simple. It is best to get complicated at a smaller event for the first time and test it out before you try to do this at a large event.

The time will come for this kind of judging but there is a lot of work to do first and two years is a short time for this kind of event. It is hard enough to set up a simple event in just one year alone.

The main thing is keep it fun! That is the whole point to start with.

Folks,

For the record, we have not done any formal criteria for judging at this time. I have stated in this thread that we wil not be doing drive thru judging. We are working diligently on many things, but as of right now, the judging has been talked about, but not to any great depth.

We will be keeping you posted in this thread and at http://www.michiganfieroclub.com/25th.htm as more details are available.

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Awesome Fiero items by F-I-E-R-O

I believe don't put off progression, unitl tomorrow. True are cars are not worth anything now and thats my point of lossing are history. These cars are at it's lowest price yet to date and some people are starting to redo them, case in point Fiero store is continue to make restoration parts more then custom parts, Rodney Dickman make excellent parts for stock fieros as well. The problem here is we have to start something because people are starting to ask questions at the show. If you have been following the BEST IN THE MIDWEST (which is the Best Fiero of that year that is closest to the way it came down the factory line)people are taking notice and it's catching on like a grassroot project, but with no class guide lines people are lost, the only reference is the Enthusiasts Guide and Spotters Guide or asking someone at a fiero event. I'm not shooting for the moon, but something. I will give you example of how important this is, a car show during the summer a guy had a Fiero 88 to be exact, I looked over the car and we talked for a while and he had bought it a year ago and he was the 3 third owner car had 34,000 miles on it, and he claimed it was 100% original. I ask how he new this, he said the 2nd owner told him and the first owner told that to the second owner. To make a long story short he had the wrong spare tire and one other thing. He had a Unroyal, but in 88 the spare was a firestone. He didn't believe me at first so we went for a walk and I show him some other 88's, he said do they look for that at shows, I said no just how clean it is. Get my point. As far a making guide lines, we know the first one isn't going to be perfect out the box, I'm not saying make a a Novel. Simple things in general, like fiero judging for dummys. Example catagory called Under the front hood, it would all the items that are to be under there, so the 88 spare tire would be Firestone (you could put the tire size if you choose or save for the next updated graft) if they don't have that tire as a spare and they have something else (instead of 5 points you give them 4point) You spoon feed them just like we spoon feed the judges now on where to look for dirt on our cars. Like I said if you get a group of 5 to 10 to work on a certain year and model, something can be done before the 25th (2 years away) and could be put out to the fiero community and POCI early to show that we do have some kind of guide lines. There are many people in the fiero community that are specialists in the Indy Fieros, 88 Gt's, 86 se's 88 Formulas, 85 Gt's. Don't sell them short! Look at the people from IL when they set out on a task to do the Enthusiasts Guide, they compiled it and got it out. They didn't get everything the first time out, but thats what the next edition will have, just as Mark Corbin has all ready a 2nd edition of the Spotters Guide. I realize how hard it is to put together a event, I have been doing the Dells Run with others for 15 years and I 'm not dropping this all on them, I'm saying if we here on the forum put together some thing together as guide lines in a ruff draft they can use some of it, part of it, all of it. But they can't do anything without having anything.

[This message has been edited by FIERO JOHN-WI (edited 10-29-2006).]

quote Originally posted by OHNIKO: if I remember correctly, there were convoy routes posted during the 20th show, .......maybe some preliminary ones can be shown/posted again to give people an idea of routes/planning etc... this one sounds like another massive show, woohoo! getting excited already! glad there's alot of notice given!!!

That would be very cool. I would really love to drive the 86 GT out for the festivities, and hooking up with a group of Fieros going that way would be awesome. Plus we can always help each other out if somebody's car gives them trouble....not that Fieros ever break, mind you

I definitely want to make this event. Missed the last one for a host of reasons.

Of course, I could trailer the car out and save my aching old back...but what fun would that be? Hmmmmm....El Paso to Pontiac....about 4000 miles round trip. Sounds like fun.

quote Originally posted by FIERO JOHN-WI: I believe don't put off progression, unitl tomorrow. True are cars are not worth anything now and thats my point of lossing are history. These cars are at it's lowest price yet to date and some people are starting to redo them, case in point Fiero store is continue to make restoration parts more then custom parts, Rodney Dickman make excellent parts for stock fieros as well. The problem here is we have to start something because people are starting to ask questions at the show. If you have been following the BEST IN THE MIDWEST (which is the Best Fiero of that year that is closest to the way it came down the factory line)people are taking notice and it's catching on like a grassroot project, but with no class guide lines people are lost, the only reference is the Enthusiasts Guide and Spotters Guide or asking someone at a fiero event. I'm not shooting for the moon, but something. I will give you example of how important this is, a car show during the summer a guy had a Fiero 88 to be exact, I looked over the car and we talked for a while and he had bought it a year ago and he was the 3 third owner car had 34,000 miles on it, and he claimed it was 100% original. I ask how he new this, he said the 2nd owner told him and the first owner told that to the second owner. To make a long story short he had the wrong spare tire and one other thing. He had a Unroyal, but in 88 the spare was a firestone. He didn't believe me at first so we went for a walk and I show him some other 88's, he said do they look for that at shows, I said no just how clean it is. Get my point. As far a making guide lines, we know the first one isn't going to be perfect out the box, I'm not saying make a a Novel. Simple things in general, like fiero judging for dummys. Example catagory called Under the front hood, it would all the items that are to be under there, so the 88 spare tire would be Firestone (you could put the tire size if you choose or save for the next updated graft) if they don't have that tire as a spare and they have something else (instead of 5 points you give them 4point) You spoon feed them just like we spoon feed the judges now on where to look for dirt on our cars. Like I said if you get a group of 5 to 10 to work on a certain year and model, something can be done before the 25th (2 years away) and could be put out to the fiero community and POCI early to show that we do have some kind of guide lines. There are many people in the fiero community that are specialists in the Indy Fieros, 88 Gt's, 86 se's 88 Formulas, 85 Gt's. Don't sell them short! Look at the people from IL when they set out on a task to do the Enthusiasts Guide, they compiled it and got it out. They didn't get everything the first time out, but thats what the next edition will have, just as Mark Corbin has all ready a 2nd edition of the Spotters Guide. I realize how hard it is to put together a event, I have been doing the Dells Run with others for 15 years and I 'm not dropping this all on them, I'm saying if we here on the forum put together some thing together as guide lines in a ruff draft they can use some of it, part of it, all of it. But they can't do anything without having anything.

I would like to see you get this to work,

You need to get all the details in writing not just have experts on site. The guide lines need to be handed out before the event. The time to detail the guidelines is what will take time as toi what is acceptable and what is not and you will have to make room for the oddities that were done on the run by the factory.

A good example is door skins from 1984 are different from 85 and later etc. Different fasteners from year to year and again ruinning changes duting the prodution year. If you don't resherch all possibilities and someone shows up with the od Fiero how would know it is correct? This is why all possibilities need cheked out and confirmed.

I feel a show like the Dells would be a better venue to start something like this to help keep it managable as it a little smaller and already an established show where the 25th would be a one off put together event that already has a lot of needs to get done with out adding anything to make it more complicated.

This is a very do able project but the 25th is just too soon and to big and not an event that is already established as a yearly event. If a club or other entiity could make it a yearly event that would help. But as it is now we many not get another national event till the 30th?

Might check out the judgine for the original cars at the Mopar nats they are very well documented and well exicuted.

You will also need a lift to look under the car ir have one available with good lighting.

quote Originally posted by FIERO JOHN-WI: I will give you example of how important this is, a car show during the summer a guy had a Fiero 88 to be exact, I looked over the car and we talked for a while and he had bought it a year ago and he was the 3 third owner car had 34,000 miles on it, and he claimed it was 100% original. I ask how he new this, he said the 2nd owner told him and the first owner told that to the second owner. To make a long story short he had the wrong spare tire and one other thing. He had a Unroyal, but in 88 the spare was a firestone. He didn't believe me at first so we went for a walk and I show him some other 88's, he said do they look for that at shows, I said no just how clean it is. Get my point.

This is an interesting concept...and not to dispute you, but I have yet to hear of a single person restoring a Fiero. Sure there are a lot of low miles Fieros that are still close to original. But I don't recall a single thread in my 5 years here where someone takes a beat up junker and performs a concours level restoration back to factory original. People do that all the time to Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, because in the end the sum is greater than the parts. It would cost tens of thousands to restore a Fiero and in the end it would only be worth a fraction of that. So I don't see it happening. I'm not saying it's impossible, just very unlikely.

I forsee that the stock category will be for people that have kept their cars stock since they bought them, and it is mainly a cleaning contest because no one except Hulki can say for sure what is original and what isn't.

We call that class Factory Stock at Carlisle. It is judged on originality as well as cleanliness.

Jscott1, this is true that you don't here of a lot of full off restoration like the cars you mentioned and the reason to this is simple. There are many good and cheap I might add Fieros out there and the rule of thumb with any restoration they tell you to start by, buying a little better for a little more then spending a little less up front because it will cost more in the long run and as you know the Fiero continues on a downward price, plus the market of really low mileage fieros have been popping up because of the people who thought the fiero would be a good investment (like a retirement nest egg, which they are finding out isn't the case) Case in point Fred (of Heartland fieros) just bought a 23 year old Indy pace car with 195 miles for $10,000, if you bought used one for $1,000 that was beat-up and rusted, you know you would spend over $10,000. But you can find some really nice Indys for $5,000 and they will need the drivers seat fixed and maybe a repaint, which all the stickers are now remade and emblems. So know need for a full restoration.

John,

"But you can find some really nice Indys for $5,000 and they will need the drivers seat fixed and maybe a repaint, which all the stickers are now remade and emblems. So know need for a full restoration."

Are you using this example to show that fixing the following on the above car makes it a full restoration? You are not serious are you? I am sure it is not that easy. I have yet to find a 25,000 mile car that heeds one or two things and it is concidered a full restoration. I think we need to get real here.

Thats not what I'm implying as a full restoration, I said there is no need to do a full restoration with so my fiero out there at a cheap price. Your talking about 2 different things here. I'm NOT even talking about a restoration class. Like HyperV6 said it would be a points system your car would be judged against, not the people in your class.

quote Originally posted by FIERO JOHN-WI: As far a making guide lines, we know the first one isn't going to be perfect out the box, I'm not saying make a a Novel. Simple things in general, like fiero judging for dummys. Example catagory called Under the front hood, it would all the items that are to be under there, so the 88 spare tire would be Firestone (you could put the tire size if you choose or save for the next updated graft) if they don't have that tire as a spare and they have something else (instead of 5 points you give them 4point) You spoon feed them just like we spoon feed the judges now on where to look for dirt on our cars. Like I said if you get a group of 5 to 10 to work on a certain year and model, something can be done before the 25th (2 years away) and could be put out to the fiero community and POCI early to show that we do have some kind of guide lines. There are many people in the fiero community that are specialists in the Indy Fieros, 88 Gt's, 86 se's 88 Formulas, 85 Gt's. Don't sell them short! Look at the people from IL when they set out on a task to do the Enthusiasts Guide, they compiled it and got it out. They didn't get everything the first time out, but thats what the next edition will have, just as Mark Corbin has all ready a 2nd edition of the Spotters Guide. I realize how hard it is to put together a event, I have been doing the Dells Run with others for 15 years and I 'm not dropping this all on them, I'm saying if we here on the forum put together some thing together as guide lines in a ruff draft they can use some of it, part of it, all of it. But they can't do anything without having anything.

Let’s get the ball rolling then. Instead of sitting here talking about what should be done and what can or can’t be done (even though it is an important step in the process), let’s at least lay the groundwork. And who better to do it, than those that are being judged. We’re Fiero owners; we’re resourceful and we get things done. We don’t sit around complaining that somebody needs to make a better cheaper break kit for our car, we drive to the junkyard and make it ourselves. Why should this be any different? This is going to make me sound hypocritical, but somebody with a decent knowledge base (read: not me) should start a thread with a few categories and criteria to look for for each year. Don’t do a whole lot of heavy lifting on this part, just enough to give us an idea of what kind of information you want and how you want it. Then just watch the thread and keep updating the first post while people (hopefully with a little knowledge) keep posting with points to look for. I’ve been around long enough to know that the forum can do this. These kinds of posts always excite a lot more people than I expect who have a lot more obscure knowledge than I expect. We usually don’t see it because we seem to always be looking to the future around here, but there are more than a few good historians on the forum. This surely won’t be the final say but it’ll make a damn good rough draft, and that’s the biggest part of the job. More importantly, this should cut down on said b*tching because the people who go to shows will have had some input on the matter.

I hate the way this is going to make me sound like an a-hole, but it has to be said. I would do it myself, but there has to be somebody better than me that is willing. I simply don’t have the knowledge to do it. I’ve only been following Fieros for 2 years, and being born in ‘86 I don’t really remember much from “back in the day.” Also, I have zero experience with judging. I’ve never shown anything in any judged show and I’ve never stuck around any show long enough to see the judging.

It sounds like a cool idea. I think you almost need to have 2 classes of some kind. Something like "stock" and showroom stock.

These are the changes allowed by the Fiero Fantics for the Run to the Dells show. I think the changes they list are very fair for the average person that wants to show a car. Someone that makes minor changes to their car would not have a chance against a perfect car.

Exterior: Windshield wipers, antenna, tinted windows, bra on the front fascia, brake dust shields, pin-stripping, different brand tires, CB’s, or phone antennas and any Factory items you add, (for example: sunroof, t-tops, wing and any FIERO rims ONLY!) Paint must be a Factory Fiero color ONLY!

Interior: Floor mats, radio, glove box, tray holder, wood grain faceplates, heads up display, Mr. Mike’s seats and any factory Items you add, (for example: power windows, locks, mirrors, subwoofer.)

Engine: Dog bone, spark plug wires, coil pack, headers and battery.


*** Anything more than these changes will take your Fiero out of the Stock Class and put it into one of the other classes listed below. ***


I think it would be a good Idea to have a Showroom or Concours class for the people that have the "Perfect" fiero and a class for the normal "Stock" fiero. Over the years the "Concours" class would grow as people that have a stock fiero that is close to perfect could research and try to locate the correct parts to improve there cars.

I do think there is a need for 2 classes.

Just my 2 cents
-Brad

quote Originally posted by WingNut - MD: Folks, For the record, we have not done any formal criteria for judging at this time. I have stated in this thread that we wil not be doing drive thru judging. We are working diligently on many things, but as of right now, the judging has been talked about, but not to any great depth. We will be keeping you posted in this thread and at http://www.michiganfieroclub.com/25th.htm as more details are available.

And who's running this show ???

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87 GT MP-112 powered, 3800 Supercharged on 19's
88 GT T-top 1 of very few, 119.4 miles
87 GT custom
90 Grand prix STE Turbo
IF YOU AIN'T BREAKING STUFF..................IT AIN'T MODDED ENOUGH

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: And who's running this show ???

No secret here. It is listed back in the original post

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: Just recieved my Michigan Fiero Club newsletter yesterday and read it tonight. On page three, Quote: MFC will host the 25th Anniversary Fiero Show in Pontiac. Thanks to Mark Duford, Barb Hack, and Ron Treichel the 25th Anniversary Fiero Show in 2008 is off to a good start. The Marriot at Pontiac Center Point has been selected and reserved for this Special Fiero Event. This facility was used for the 20th Anniversary Fiero Show and it worked out Great! Anyone who went to the 20th Anniversary knows that was probably the best Fiero show ever (by far the greatest turnout of Fieros ever), and historically significant for all the special cars GM brought. I feel sorry for anyone who missed it. Hopefully this one turns out just as good! I know I can't wait

For those that do not know, I am Mark.

[This message has been edited by WingNut - MD (edited 10-30-2006).]

quote Originally posted by FIERO JOHN-WI: ...Case in point Fred (of Heartland fieros) just bought a 23 year old Indy pace car with 195 miles for $10,000, if you bought used one for $1,000 that was beat-up and rusted, you know you would spend over $10,000.

So true...I wish I had bought a nice Indy instead of the ready for the crusher Indy. Several thousand later my junker of an Indy is barely driveable. It would easily take over $10,000 just to make it look showroom nice. Probably twice that to do a concourse restoration. Needless to say I'm not going that way. So I am baffled about all the talk of a concours class. Who is going to compete in it???

Thank you to all the Fiero Forum members that private emailed me with postive feedback, I understand why you sent it to me instead posting on here. I will keep you updated, YES I started yesterday I have a structured format and I hope to have something of a ruff draft end of November. REMEMBER the ruff draft will be simple (we have to keep in mind) off the bat to not overdue the first draft.
Later and Thanks again.

I hope I was not being too negative in my previous posts.

Therefore, I will state here publically that I support any and all efforts to show Fieros of all types, be them custom, stock, restoration or concours. If you need judges, I would be willing to help out. If you need help putting together a rule book I'll help with that too.

But it's unlikely I will ever have a car showing in the stock, restoration or concourse class, but I never say never.

I wish I could be there, but I'll be serving in the marines.

I will share my secret for good judging...Cheerleaders. They'll pick the best car every time.

I agree with a lot of what was said but just wanted to point something out in more simple terms (some of these posts are kinda long BUT discussion of this type is good!). Some suggestions as a show organizer....

I believe we should have a class judged as John mentioned and I'm glad he's working towards developing guidelines. HOWEVER, I also think we should have a regular stock-type class where people aren't judged on ever last nut and bolt, instead on the overall appearance of the car (i.e. the exterior and interior look generally stock but the tires may be Coopers instead of Goodyears, the battery may be DEKA instead of A.C. Delco etc.). More people would fall into the latter category and I feel if we judge completely on original correctness it would turn a lot of people off to attending this show. I understand you are only being judged against yourself in John's suggested class but people still want to feel like they have a chance so I believe two types classes are in order ("Factory Stock/Original" and Maybe "Stock")

~ Jen

Jen, thanks again for your support. One thing that I have been coming to is alot of people can't see making the 2 classes because the turn out for it would be very low. I understand there point from the show promoter and the extra fees, so the first draft is going to combined the best of both worlds. In other words Not to hard (example exact tires) but not to week that you let shinny buff parts to look like chrome in the engine compartment. Plus this first draft has to be in a easy to read, but NOT take a hour to judge 1 car. I realize just like in life, like "technology" you can not give people to much to fast or you get overwhelmed and quit. Thats what we are dealing with here. We never had any type of judgeing guide lines created from any of the FIERO NATIONAL Clubs. So this draft will be kinda low key. When I'm done I will present it here, where all Fiero owners can give there feedback so we can (I guess call it) tolerance is.

Thanks for the response John. I guess my focus with the two types of classes was for the National if turnout warrants. Perhaps Mark can let us know how many cars were in the stock classes in 2003? If there are 12+ cars perhaps we should offer both? Just a thought but I like what you're working with so far. I definitely agree that we need National standards.

~Jen

Correct me if I'm out of line, but from what I have seen with car shows, is that the organizers never know how many of what type of car will come to any show. Too many people wait until the last minute to register, so how can any show organizers plan for classes?

Why even bother to have any "concourse" class, if only one or two cars plan to show in that class, unless it just for the owner to walk home with some trophy. There could be a 100% stock class for all years of Fiero (trailer queens), if you can enough of those types of cars. This means an 84 Pace car would compete against any 85, 86, 87 or 88 Fiero.

quote Originally posted by green87: I will share my secret for good judging...Cheerleaders. They'll pick the best car every time.

sorry, I could not resisit

[This message has been edited by WingNut - MD (edited 10-31-2006).]

John I think it would be best that you do come up with a written proposal at this point.

Right now I don't think we all have a good grasp on where your heading. At times it looks one way and others it looks like a full blown concourse. I think you just need to get all your thoughts together and present in full so we all know exactly where you coming from and there would be little confusion. I think it would answer a lot of questions and prevent a lot of the arguments.

I would look forward to your presentation.

Bump for new members

I don't care how it is to be judged. I'll just be there for the cars.

quote Originally posted by Chump: I don't care how it is to be judged. I'll just be there for the cars.

Ditto.

I do however support all those who feel they need or enjoy the competition of a judged show, ...to each his own.

For me the fun is just going to see the cars and hanging out with other fiero folk shooting the breeze about our cars.

Look forward to whatever concept you guys come up with, but no judging likely for me either.

quote Originally posted by jmbishop: I wish I could be there, but I'll be serving in the marines.

Same here. If I'm still in Japan, there's no way. If I'm back by then and not deployed, 25th it is.

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"Semper Fiero"