it will improve reliability.and if i really want to spend the money i can buy the turbo or supercharger kit and then it would run with most of the v8's.
your kidding right? As soon as you start boosting things reliabilty goes out the window because people can't stop at a good thing. Next thing you know your running 30 lbs of boost and that isn't gonna make the engine live longer. Don't get me wrong i'm all for something better than a 2.8 but classing this swap with a V-8 swap is ludicrous ( not Ludacris) . I guess people are so tainted by all these junkyard V-8 swaps to realize what a semi built up small block will do. As for revving to 6500 rpm's well a small block can do that to so that is another reason to not class it with a V-8 . Oh V-8 swap is not equal to 4.9 swap . This is making my head hurt .
quote
Originally posted by wftb:
on my setup the engine is further ahead towards the middle of the car than the v6.add to that 150 lbs less weight and i am expecting a better weight distrubution.this engine appears to be set in the same location as mine.
By removing weight from the rear you actually change your weight bias from rear to front. You'll be changing your split to 50/50 or higher in the front ( mid engines handle better with more bias in the back correct? ) . How do you make an inline 4 cyl have more weight forward of the rear wheels? Did you lay it on it's side? I don't see how removing 150 lbs off the rear tires is gonna make your car handle better ? I don't know maybe i'm just confused . . . please shed some light on this for the uneducated.
Rant off , Asbestose undies on ------------------ HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?
[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 10-22-2006).]
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09:30 PM
KeithGT Member
Posts: 540 From: Huntsville, Al Registered: Jan 2006
your kidding right? As soon as you start boosting things reliabilty goes out the window because people can't stop at a good thing. Next thing you know your running 30 lbs of boost and that isn't gonna make the engine live longer. Don't get me wrong i'm all for something better than a 2.8 but classing this swap with a V-8 swap is Ludacris. I guess people are so tainted by all these junkyard V-8 swaps to realize what a semi built up small block will do. As for revving to 6500 rpm's well a small block can do that to so that is another reason to not class it with a V-8 . Oh V-8 swap is not equal to 4.9 swap . This is making my head hurt
Do you know anything about the ecotec? As a rather large Jbody (cavalier/sunfire) fan before the fiero, there are folks boosting over 10PSI on all stock internals with NO problems. Of the Hundreds of Turbo Ecotecs on Jbody.org, only a hand full of PROPERLY TUNED engines have blown. Obviously there have been other accidents, and obviously running 30Psi on a stock engine.is a rather risky idea. But yeah, the Ecotec is a very boost friendly engine.....And done right and properly tuned, it will EASILY hang with a V-8, No Problems.
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09:58 PM
Oct 21st, 2006
wftb Member
Posts: 3692 From: kincardine,ontario,canada Registered: Jun 2005
all cars no matter where they have there engine located ,handle better with a 50/50 weight distribution.getting rid of 150 lbs off the back of my fiero has made an improvement in my cars balance .it rides better now and handles very neutral ,no understeer or oversteer .getting rid of weight also ups your power to weight ratio ,that is more speed at the same horsepower level.you can boost a stock ecotec to 270 hp + ,after that you risk rod failure .as far as the weight foreward ,i was going by the fact that the harmonic balancer seems further foreward on the 4 cyl than the 2.8 .something to do with the cavalier transaxle i guess.4000 km so far with no problems.
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01:16 AM
deejayee Member
Posts: 16 From: vancouver british columbia canada Registered: Dec 2005
I am the owner of the ecotec fiero and I paid around 12,000 can, however, this included, new suspension, engine, tranny, headers, braided hosing, new triflow cam, brakes, headlights, complete LED lighting all around, plus powersteering, poly everywhere. The complete engine, tranny, and computer only cost 1500 can. This is a naturally aspirated engine with around 195 hp...stock as you already know is around 140hp. The triflow cam with the cold air intake is what brings it up to around 200hp. After researching many different engine, I decided on the ecotec because of fuel economy, newer engine design, engine can stand modification. 150 lbs lighter than stock. My mechanic advised me that if in future I wanted more power the next step would be turbo or supercharger, very pricey.
Shifter clarifications, the shift is not backwards it is a mirror image, e.g. instead of 1,2,3,4,5,r...it is now .r,5,4,3,2,1. (3 and 4 have not changed position) The reason the shifter has changed is because we are using the fiero cabling which was too short to go around the whole engine which is how the stock cavalier works. If we would have spotted this early in the swap we could have ordered longer cabling and the shifter pattern would have remained the same. My mechanic just put it together this way temporarily. However as someone mentioned before it is a great antitheft device.
To answer someones earlier request in this thread, my mechanic has a company called Groundforceauto. His specialty is customization. Unfortunately, his website is underconstruction so he can be reached at 604 309-1044.
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01:24 AM
deejayee Member
Posts: 16 From: vancouver british columbia canada Registered: Dec 2005
my do it yourself conversion cost about 1400.00 cdn .i have not modded the ecotec at all yet and i am happy with the performance .but i hope one day to put in one of the supercharged motors ,they havent started showing up at the wreckers yet.
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06:49 AM
DemonDriver1 Member
Posts: 51 From: Millsboro,DE but Salisbury is better Registered: Oct 2006
Originally posted by KeithGT: Do you know anything about the ecotec? As a rather large Jbody (cavalier/sunfire) fan before the fiero, there are folks boosting over 10PSI on all stock internals with NO problems. Of the Hundreds of Turbo Ecotecs on Jbody.org, only a hand full of PROPERLY TUNED engines have blown. Obviously there have been other accidents, and obviously running 30Psi on a stock engine.is a rather risky idea. But yeah, the Ecotec is a very boost friendly engine.....And done right and properly tuned, it will EASILY hang with a V-8, No Problems.
your kidding right? As soon as you start boosting things reliabilty goes out the window because people can't stop at a good thing. Next thing you know your running 30 lbs of boost and that isn't gonna make the engine live longer. Don't get me wrong i'm all for something better than a 2.8 but classing this swap with a V-8 swap is Ludacris.
I don't know much about the ecotec, but...
Ludacris =
Ludicrous = lu·di·crous Pronunciation: 'lü-d&-kr&s Function: adjective Etymology: Latin ludicrus, from ludus play, sport; perhaps akin to Greek loidoros abusive
1 : amusing or laughable through obvious absurdity, incongruity, exaggeration, or eccentricity
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 10-22-2006).]
Ludicrous = laughable through obvious absurdity <--------- Thats the one i meant
Those are ok numbers i guess but thats at 10 psi. Now go look at the main page of pennocks and take a peak at the 508 hp fiero. Those numbers are at the wheels on a 150 shot of nitrous. The car weights 2920 with the driver. So lets say that we take away the 150 shot. We are still sitting at 358 hp at the wheels. thast a far cry from a boosted 243 hp at the wheels. I'd put my money on the LS powered fiero to walk away from a boosted ecotech fiero like there is no tomorrow. The 150 lbs you'd loose by using the ecotech will warrant you about .15 of a second in the quarter mile. Personally i think you'd need more than that to hang with a Nick's LS1 fiero.
------------------ HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?
[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 10-22-2006).]
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10:40 PM
1fastcaddy Member
Posts: 618 From: Hays, Kansas Registered: Oct 2004
An LS1 is not a typical V8 though. Put the eco against a decent sbc and see where it gets you. Plus the added weight will hurt the handling. Just a thought. Drew
------------------ 1985 GT Fastback ;) Low Original Miles at 41,506!!!
Otherwise stock for now ;)
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11:51 PM
1fastcaddy Member
Posts: 618 From: Hays, Kansas Registered: Oct 2004
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: The car weights 2920 with the driver.
Think about the eco then. How much gain is that than a stock fiero? Cause he said 150 less than the stock v6. Also, the eco weighs less than the stock 4 so were prolly talkin 2500 with the driver, dependin on what options the car has. Put an eco in an 84 with just a few options and we might be talkin sub 2500 lb mark. Im just thinkin out loud here but a 2500 lb car with 250-300 hp puts it in the corvette killer range, am I right? Laters, Drew
------------------ 1985 GT Fastback ;) Low Original Miles at 41,506!!!
So if the eco is 500 lbs lighter you'll gain .5 of a second . I think power off idle of the LS still have no problem putting the eco in the mirror. I would really love these to combo's go head to head. Yes an iron block SBC is heavy but once again it is quite capable of make tons o power (read that as not a junkyard tpi swap) . Has this ecotech fiero been to the track yet? just wondering what kinda numbers it ran non boosted.
------------------ HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?
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06:01 AM
DemonDriver1 Member
Posts: 51 From: Millsboro,DE but Salisbury is better Registered: Oct 2006
An LS1 is not a typical V8 though. Put the eco against a decent sbc and see where it gets you. Plus the added weight will hurt the handling. Just a thought. Drew
The LS1 IS a typical V8, its being swapped into anything and everything. I dont understand that comment.
What is your definition of a decent SBC.
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09:41 AM
fieroluv Member
Posts: 1951 From: Ft Wayne, IN USA Registered: Jul 2002
yeah I didn't understand that either, seeing how an LS1 crate engine runs about 25% more than a 3800 SC crate engine. It's not that exotic. Now if it was a 10,000 dollar engine then I could see it not being a feesible engine to compare, but 5 - 6K is not out of the question.
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09:59 AM
Oct 24th, 2006
wftb Member
Posts: 3692 From: kincardine,ontario,canada Registered: Jun 2005
an LS1 engine is an aluminum block and head motor ,5.7 L originally found in corvettes .it is not a run of the mill v8 .when i said a turbo eco would run with most v8's ,i was talking about the cast iron block and head motors that seem to be the basis of most v8 swaps here on the forum. an LS1 in a fiero will probably outrun just about anything out there and is becoming a more popular swap but there are not too many out there . newer LS2,3,4,5,6and7 motors are even faster than LS1's . lets do some math: a 3000lb car with an above average cast iron chevy running 320hp has a power to weight ratio of 9.375 lbs per hp .a 2500 lb car with a turbo eco running 270hp has power to weight ratio of 9.25 lbs per hp .so there wont be much difference in speed ,the winner would be determined by tires and transmission choices. i am not knocking sbc swaps , to each ther own.as far as costs go ,pace sells LS1 crate engines for i think 4188.00 .that engine had no intake ,wiring or exhaust .and then you need a build kit.so the cost is way over what i did my eco for. the main reason i did an eco swap is because it is something a little different from what most people are doing (there are only 2 running in the world at last count) and i knew it would improve handling and i have a modern drive train that i can actually get parts for from a gm dealer.i enjoy driving my fiero more than ever before.
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01:25 AM
wftb Member
Posts: 3692 From: kincardine,ontario,canada Registered: Jun 2005
I don't know many V8's cast iron or not that are making less than 250hp. Even if the V8 made only 220hp at the rear wheels the sheer torque of the V8 on launch will kill a 250hp wheel HP Turbo Ecotec. To add to that, if you build a SBC V8 that only makes 250hp the engine will probably outlast the car. There are a lot of old smogger V8's that run 300,000 because they are not being pushed to make the big HP numbers.
The Ecotec is a unique and fun swap. Its not out there to win races and go fast. I am sure it can be made to go fast, but look at the dyno sheet posted, it makes bupkiss below 4000rpms and that is with a turbo pushing 10psi.
I am not trying to put down another persons swap. But you just can't compare it to a V8 sbc or otherwise.
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02:04 AM
88GT5.0KILLER Member
Posts: 590 From: Watching a once great nation become a 3rd world slum. The power of stockpiles of ammo. Registered: Jul 2002
an LS1 engine is an aluminum block and head motor ,5.7 L originally found in corvettes .it is not a run of the mill v8 .when i said a turbo eco would run with most v8's ,i was talking about the cast iron block and head motors that seem to be the basis of most v8 swaps here on the forum. [QUOTE]
an LS1 in a fiero will probably outrun just about anything out there and is becoming a more popular swap but there are not too many out there . newer LS2,3,4,5,6and7 motors are even faster than LS1's . lets do some math: a 3000lb car with an above average cast iron chevy running 320hp has a power to weight ratio of 9.375 lbs per hp .a 2500 lb car with a turbo eco running 270hp has power to weight ratio of 9.25 lbs per hp .so there wont be much difference in speed ,the winner would be determined by tires and transmission choices.
Look at that Dyno graph again. Whats the TRQ at 3000 rpm? Yeah, you'll be looking at tail lights.
quote
i am not knocking sbc swaps , to each ther own.as far as costs go ,pace sells LS1 crate engines for i think 4188.00 .that engine had no intake ,wiring or exhaust .and then you need a build kit.so the cost is way over what i did my eco for..
yes it is more money than what you spent, if you want a LS1. We can go dollar for dollar. SBC parts are EVERYWHERE. Most people dont know how to use them. You are making the classic mistake like so many closet ricers that used to dwell here and think that this forum represents what a V8 can do. I hate to break it to you and everyone else. A stock TPI is a disappointment. Even the guys that had a IROC yanked that crap outta there LOL
quote
i have a modern drive train that i can actually get parts for from a gm dealer.i enjoy driving my fiero more than ever before.
Again, Summit Racing sells all kinds of SBC parts .
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08:20 AM
PFF
System Bot
crzyone Member
Posts: 3571 From: Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2000
You are correct. A moderatly boosted ecotec is perfectly reliable. Come to our foum where your swap will be appreciated.
Good luck getting respect for a 4 cylinder engine on this fourm...
Hey douche no one is disrespecting his swap . We are just trying to open peoples eyes to the reality of what a V-8 is actually capable of. Your one of those guys thats tainted by all these tpi swaps aren't you? 247 boosted hp at the wheels is cool because it's more than the 120 from a 2.8 . But 247 is childs play in comparison to what is out there stock running the streets. I'd love to see a boosted 10psi eco fiero get stomped by a srt-8 charger or a boosted WS6 running 8 psi . LOL that would be funny as hell, because you wouldn't undrstand why it happened . Don't act like a fa-qin saint to this guy, you know as soon as he signs up over there you clowns will give him a rash of sh!t about his swap cause it runs 14.5 in the 1/4 and it'll get smoked by a stock srt-4 . I should of started my own thread cause we are ruining this guys swap thread . . . sorry deejayee. Your car looks nice no disrespect toward your swap it's yours. Not my cup o tea but that don't mean anything cause it isn't mine.
quote
Originally posted by deejayee:
This is a naturally aspirated engine with around 195 hp...stock as you already know is around 140hp. The triflow cam with the cold air intake is what brings it up to around 200hp.
Be carefull you'll be called Calikid jr for this comment on the RFT Unless of course you have a dyno sheet and a vid to prove it.
I bet Shaun is foaming at the mouth waiting for this guy LOL . Got luck your gonna need it.
------------------ HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?
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02:03 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
An LS1 is not a typical V8 though. Put the eco against a decent sbc and see where it gets you. Plus the added weight will hurt the handling. Just a thought. Drew
30 lbs forward of the rear axles does NOT affect handling. I have a ZZ4 V-8 and the weight difference between a 2.8L with auto and a ZZ4 with a 4-spd is only 30 lbs.
As for the Ecotec swap, I think it is great. I remember when many laughed at Pontiac when the SD4 came out. Everyone harped on the engine being a little 4-cyl until it started getting 300-500hp and kicking the competitions butt.
If I recall a built Ecotec is hitting 1000hp+ in full race build. Chances are if they were still building the Fiero, The Ecotec would most likely be the base engine. Just like the Cobalt and G5's. Not to mention they have turbo'd and supercharged versions from the factory. The Solstice GXP has a turbo and has 270hp. It makes the Solstice GXP faster then the 3.5L V-6 350Z convertable and only .1 seconds slower than the 6-cyl 3.0L BMW Z4. I'm sure with little mods, you can get it to 300hp.
The swap looks great. The only thing I would suggest doing is ducting the air intake all the way to the side scoop like stock so it gets the cooler air. Having the cone filter in the engine compartment causes hot air to be drawn in.
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02:16 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: I'd love to see a boosted 10psi eco fiero get stomped by a srt-8 charger or a boosted WS6 running 8 psi . LOL that would be funny as hell, because you wouldn't undrstand why it happened .
I'd love to see your car get stomped by a FWD 4 banger...
a 300 crank hp fiero (about a 10-12psi boosted ecotec) will be as fast as a 06 GTO making 400 crank HP from an LS2 v8 -
i'd say thats pretty respectable especially considering the ion redline and cobalt redline guys are upgrading to 60lb injectors on the stock SC's because at about 300 crank HP the already upgraded to 42# injectors are almost maxing out - the 60lb injectors are good for about 450hp - and thats on stock internals.. as long as they are tuned perperly people aren't breaking them.
now upgrade the rods and pistons and they can make a lot more reliably, and run to 8000rpm.
engine dynamics aside - the biggest argument for a "low torque" boosted 4cyl vs a high torque v8 in a fiero is that torque is what kills transmissions, not HP. the tranny will be a lot more reliable with a boosted 4cyl at the same HP levels. plus the ecotec manual is stronger than the fiero trannies.
its a good swap with a lot of potential
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02:43 PM
Derek2M6 Member
Posts: 289 From: Guelph, Ontario, Canada Registered: May 2006
LOL that would be funny as hell, because you wouldn't understand why it happened.
b-b-b-but 10 cylinder > 4 cylinder?? (assuming you have a car that is...)
I really hope this was a joke, did you actually watch the video? The Viper doesn't even press on the gas, you can tell because of the cars behind it; the distance between them and the viper hardly changes. The guy in the Viper just had a look of when the guy honked at him.
[This message has been edited by Derek2M6 (edited 10-24-2006).]
Originally posted by Derek2M6: I really hope this was a joke, did you actually watch the video? The Viper doesn't even press on the gas, you can tell because of the cars behind it; the distance between them and the viper hardly changes.
If you notice, the distance between the SRT and viper hardly changes, but the speed increases a LOT. The red car behind them was trying to keep up as well.
Being a V-8 owner, I already know what one is capable of. You on the other hand seem to "think" you do.
Dude you got a crate zz4 . 350hp at the crank you dynoed 300+ at the wheels right? Thats one step above a TPI swap in my book. Apparently you know what a very mild small block is capable of. Hell i believe Bryson dynoed higher than you with his turbo quad4 . Look a little harder and you'll see a SBC is capable of ALOT more. My s-10 blazer has a mild 350 small block in it and it's getting yanked because it's freeking weak, I barely beat a couple of 4th gen lt1 camaros with it .
------------------ HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?
If you notice, the distance between the SRT and viper hardly changes, but the speed increases a LOT. The red car behind them was trying to keep up as well.
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: Look a little harder and you'll see a SBC is capable of ALOT more.
Of course it is. It has more displacement. That makes it "easier" to get power. But who here is going to spend $2000 on cylinder heads? Or a Holley stealth ram? Nobody.
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04:42 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: The vettes in these video's would make the almight SRT-4 NEON look like it was in park . . .
Proof that it doesn't really matter what you drive... 4,6,8,10 cylinder... They can all go fast if you invest the money. And IMHO, they can all be made to go fast pretty reliabily. A 1000hp 2.5L and a 1000hp 5.7L will both blow up some day... If either lasts longer than 50,000 miles I'd say that's pretty reliable.
Of course it is. It has more displacement. That makes it "easier" to get power. But who here is going to spend $2000 on cylinder heads? Or a Holley stealth ram? Nobody.
Your absolutly right man. Alot of cheap people expecting huge power.
------------------ HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?
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04:47 PM
88GT5.0KILLER Member
Posts: 590 From: Watching a once great nation become a 3rd world slum. The power of stockpiles of ammo. Registered: Jul 2002
Of course it is. It has more displacement. That makes it "easier" to get power. But who here is going to spend $2000 on cylinder heads? Or a Holley stealth ram? Nobody.
2K on heads? I dont know what catalog youre shopping out of. All the examples I see are BOOSTED to the MAX 4 bangers Yeah Im sure those mods are cheaper
Plus as usual the comparison is STOCK V8s vs. BOOSTED 4 bangers. Because you know what the out come would be motor to motor.
Jeez some people parents did a real sh!tty job.
Like the 1 guys sig says......running 11s in a 4 banger is like coming out of the closet. Its shocking at first but in the end youre still a HOMO.
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04:59 PM
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3324 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
Originally posted by 88GT5.0KILLER: Like the 1 guys sig says......running 11s in a 4 banger is like coming out of the closet. Its shocking at first but in the end youre still a HOMO.
2K on heads? I dont know what catalog youre shopping out of. All the examples I see are BOOSTED to the MAX 4 bangers Yeah Im sure those mods are cheaper
Plus as usual the comparison is STOCK V8s vs. BOOSTED 4 bangers. Because you know what the out come would be motor to motor.
Jeez some people parents did a real sh!tty job.
Like the 1 guys sig says......running 11s in a 4 banger is like coming out of the closet. Its shocking at first but in the end youre still a HOMO.
But ya know Id be much more interested in watching a 4 banger doing 11s, seriously is it new to watch a v8 going down the strip? To see something new actually happening is sweet.
This is making my head hurt . 
) . How do you make an inline 4 cyl have more weight forward of the rear wheels? Did you lay it on it's side? I don't see how removing 150 lbs off the rear tires is gonna make your car handle better ? I don't know maybe i'm just confused . . . please shed some light on this for the uneducated. 
. I should of started my own thread cause we are ruining this guys swap thread . . . sorry deejayee. Your car looks nice no disrespect toward your swap it's yours. Not my cup o tea but that don't mean anything cause it isn't mine. 
The guy in the Viper just had a look of 
when the guy honked at him.
. 
