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Drove an Ecotec Powered Fiero today by Capt Fiero
Started on: 08-11-2006 12:19 AM
Replies: 172
Last post by: wftb on 05-19-2008 08:20 PM
Austrian Import
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Report this Post08-10-2007 02:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Custom2M4:

Since I have an engine hoist, a spare BP-ZE engine, and a spare fiero... I think I'm going to piss all of you V8 guys off by sticking a Mazda engine in the back of the fiero. hahah I wanted an ecotec, but I like the idea of using my bpze because I have 3 of them, and know them like the back of my hand.



You mean KL-ZE, right? Are you on probetalk?
I'd love that. I have a Mazda KL-DE 03 engine that I would like to breathe a second life into. Too many people told me though that it's too much work to cross breed like that.
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Report this Post08-10-2007 09:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierociousGTSend a Private Message to FierociousGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Capt Fiero:
4cyl engines are great and dandy. I was the one that started this thread. The ecotec 4 is a darn good engine.
However you guys touting that a 4cyl is faster than V8's need to step back a little.
Mod for Mod a V8 is always going to be faster than a 4cly. For every 7 second 4cyl you can post, there are a hundred V8's doing it.
Heck check out last months Hotrod. Pump gas drags.
There were no less than 10 V8 cars running pump gas and doing 7 and 8 second passes. Pump Gas, streetable driver cars. Hell they were not even DOHC they were regular pushrod V8's.
Any motor can be made to go fast. But mod for mod the biggest power will always come from the biggest engine. The ecotec makes huge power for what it is.


So how do you explain this stock Lotus Exige S (Toyota 1.8L inline 4 w/ Super Charger) beat the stock Ford Mustang (4.6L, V8)?

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avengador1
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Report this Post08-10-2007 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for avengador1Send a Private Message to avengador1Direct Link to This Post
You know those guys don't like American cars.
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Report this Post08-10-2007 11:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AP2kSend a Private Message to AP2kDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FierociousGT:


So how do you explain this stock Lotus Exige S (Toyota 1.8L inline 4 w/ Super Charger) beat the stock Ford Mustang (4.6L, V8)?



The power to weight ratio is ridiculously in favor of the Lotus. A guy I know smokes loads of people in his MG and it has only 120 hp. Another advantage is the Exige has a supercharger.

The bias should be obvious.

[This message has been edited by AP2k (edited 08-10-2007).]

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FierOmar
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Report this Post08-10-2007 01:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierOmarSend a Private Message to FierOmarDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FierociousGT:

So how do you explain this stock Lotus Exige S (Toyota 1.8L inline 4 w/ Super Charger) beat the stock Ford Mustang (4.6L, V8)?


Power to weight!


Lotus Exige $59,860 ++ (easy to get to $64,000
220hp -- 160 torq -- 2077 lbs.

Mustang GT $26875 (well equipped)
300hp -- 320 torq -- 3450 lbs.

Do the math: Lotus 9.44 lbs/hp -- Mustang GT 11.5 lbs/hp

Now, if you compare to the Shelby Mustang, the results might be a little different.

Shelby Mustang GT $43,000
500hp -- 480 torq -- 3920 lbs. (or 7.84 lbs/hp)

And if that isn't good enough...
The 2008 Ford Shelby GT500KR, scheduled for release in the spring of 2008, is powered by a (estimated) 540 horsepower 5.4-liter supercharged V-8 variation with a Ford Racing Power Upgrade Pack. Production will be limited to 1,000 units. The Shelby GT500KR styling features include a carbon composite hood with scoops and hood pins, a lowered front air dam, and 14-inch Brembo front brakes with functional cooling ducts. The GT500KR's price is estimated to be around the $52,000 range. The GT500KR will be the fastest production Mustang ever. However, Shelby has promised that there will be a Super Snake option in 2008 (with either 600 or 750 hp engines).

By most estimates, both the 500KR and the Super Snake will weigh less than the current Mustang GT, maybe as little as 3800 lbs.

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Report this Post08-10-2007 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportDirect Link to This Post
Wonder how long it will be until direct injection will be popular on V8 engines..
Or computer controlled magnetic camless valves. Now that should put up the performance for all engines..

I would like to talk about the ecotecs again. (without comparing them to other engines.)
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Report this Post08-10-2007 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierociousGTSend a Private Message to FierociousGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by avengador1:
You know those guys don't like American cars.


Really?! So why does the host (Jeremy Clarkson) of the show own a Ford GT?


 
quote
Originally posted by AP2k:
The power to weight ratio is ridiculously in favor of the Lotus. A guy I know smokes loads of people in his MG and it has only 120 hp. Another advantage is the Exige has a supercharger.

The bias should be obvious.


Bingo! the power to weight ratio is the winner. Of course Lotus is well known for their suspension. So how about a light weight Fiero using an Ecotec. Roger Thelin mention his group is building a Fiero with an Ecotec for racing. They are going to test it on a track with a Corvette by the end of November '07.

 
quote
Originally posted by FierOmar:
Power to weight!

By most estimates, both the 500KR and the Super Snake will weigh less than the current Mustang GT, maybe as little as 3800 lbs.


Bingo again! But your off the subject talking about $$$, options, and etc... I wonder if the Ford Mustang was as light as the Lotus Exige S or the Lotus Exige S had the Ford Mustang 4.6L V8... Oops I'm going off the subject

You're joking when you mean "maybe as little as 3800 lbs. Since when is that little?

Check out Car and Driver (Aug 2007 edition). They tested several cars on the track. Hint the order of the cars on the cover is how they did. Hopefully someone won't say "You know those guys don't like American cars."


Guess which car had the best time on the track?...

3rd place the Pontiac Solstice GXP (Ecotec w/ Turbo)
2nd place the Chevy Corvette Z06
1st place... you guessed it the Lotus Exige S (light as a taper ware container)

Weight
Lotus Exige S curb weight 2,015 lb
Pontiac Solstice curb weight 2877 lbs
Chevy Corvette C6 Z06 curb weight 3132 lb ( has several carbon fiber body parts to keep the weight down.)

Again... You're joking when you mean "maybe as little as 3800 lbs.... o I'm off the subject... AGAIN

Maybe as little as...

Vs.

[This message has been edited by FierociousGT (edited 08-10-2007).]

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FierOmar
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Report this Post08-11-2007 02:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierOmarSend a Private Message to FierOmarDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FierociousGT:
You're joking when you mean "maybe as little as 3800 lbs. Since when is that little?

Check out Car and Driver (Aug 2007 edition). They tested several cars on the track. Hint the order of the cars on the cover is how they did. Hopefully someone won't say "You know those guys don't like American cars."


Guess which car had the best time on the track?...

3rd place the Pontiac Solstice GXP (Ecotec w/ Turbo)
2nd place the Chevy Corvette Z06
1st place... you guessed it the Lotus Exige S (light as a taper ware container)

Weight
Lotus Exige S curb weight 2,015 lb
Pontiac Solstice curb weight 2877 lbs
Chevy Corvette C6 Z06 curb weight 3132 lb ( has several carbon fiber body parts to keep the weight down.)

Again... You're joking when you mean "maybe as little as 3800 lbs.... o I'm off the subject... AGAIN


"Lotus Exige S curb weight 2,015 lb" Maybe with optional A/C delete. Lotus' site shows 2077.

My only point is that comparing the Lotus Exige S to a 4.6 Mustang GT is not really a fair comparison, particularly when the Lotus easily costs twice as much. Maybe the Corvette Z06 would have been a better choice.

When is 3800 lbs light? When it is compared to 3920 which is the weight of the Mustang GT.

BTW, the C&D comparison might be a little distorted as well. The Lotus was equipped with "street legal racing rubber" while most other competitors were not. See: http://www.caranddriver.com...7-lotus-exige-s.html

And, unless I misread the article, the Lotus did not post the fastest time of the day. Quoting C&D: "The overall champ of the day was the Corvette Z06, which took nearly three seconds off the time posted by another example last year. The Z06’s 2:58.2 lap made it the first Lightning Lapper to get around VIR’s Grand Course in less than three minutes, which is all the more remarkable considering it does not have the sticky, racing-type tires the 911 GT3 enjoys. As before, the Z06’s combination of huge horsepower and light weight gave it an advantage on the two long straightaways and in the run up to the Sector Two esses. [Yes, they said "light weight" despite its 3132 lbs.] But this time around, the revised rear shocks made the Z06 a lot easier to drive at the limit: It still oversteers under power or while lifting off the gas suddenly, but the slides are far more progressive and controllable than before. As a result, the Z06 launches better off the corners, leading to commensurately higher speeds along those straightaways. The brakes on the Z06 are fabulous, as is the engine’s midrange thrust, but the shifter is still clunky and slow. In truth, the Z06 wasn’t as satisfying to drive as the 911 GT3, but it’s hard to argue with the car’s incredible performance—or that lap-time record."

So... the heavier, more powerful Corvette Z06 won.

Again, don't get me wrong... I like the Lotus. In fact, I have liked almost every car that Lotus has made. My brother had an Elan coupe for more than 20 years. The Elan is one of the few cars (if not the only one), to be legislated out of some Solo II classes.

And for me, I've had plenty of small cars, including Fiat-Abarth, early Minis and a Unipower GT (about 1100 lbs.) which were driven on the street. Here is a more recent photo of the Unipower GT that I owned about 30 years ago.
http://www.svra.com/SVRA/Ph...f/plinks/EJEN-63BTUZ

And to get back to the topic... I'm all for an Ecotec in a Fiero... not so much because it would produce the most power, but because it would likely offer the lightest combination with the best balance.
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[This message has been edited by FierOmar (edited 08-11-2007).]

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avengador1
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Report this Post08-11-2007 09:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for avengador1Send a Private Message to avengador1Direct Link to This Post
Let me rephrase what I said, they don't like the Mustang. This could be because of the choice of suspension Ford decided to use in it. They also seem to rip most of the American cars they test when they compare them to European cars, but they do have exceptions to their rule like the new Ford GT.
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Report this Post10-09-2007 03:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreDirect Link to This Post
Just how much lighter weight is a 2.2/manual setup than a 2.5l isuzu?

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Report this Post10-09-2007 04:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageSend a Private Message to AustralianDirect Link to This Post
There is an eco in Australia that is running Mitsubishi Sigma gearbox it is an Auto tho i understand the getrag should bolt up ok.
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Report this Post10-09-2007 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for niemann99Send a Private Message to niemann99Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierodeletre:

Just how much lighter weight is a 2.2/manual setup than a 2.5l isuzu?



Well, the most often quoted figure for the weight of the Ecotec is 275 lbs. I don't know if that includes the accessories or not. I think it probably does, as for example, the old Cosworth Vega engine weighed in at about 225lbs with accessories. I've heard different sources quote anywhere from 325 lbs to 350 lbs for the Duke, again, don't know if that includes accessories. Regardless, it will be a weight savings of between 50 and 75 lbs for the swap. Figure that the F23 and Isuzu are going to weigh about the same, +/- 5 lbs. The F35 is going to weigh a little more, especially if it has the LSD option. Figure about + 10/15 lbs. The F40 is said to weigh 125 lbs, someone here probably knows for sure if they've had one shipped to them. Don't know if there is a LSD for the F40. ( you can figure about + 10 lbs for an LSD ) I'd like to get a weight of a superchager assy, so we can compare the LSJ to, for example, a 3.6VVT.
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Report this Post05-19-2008 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbSend a Private Message to wftbDirect Link to This Post
i am bored so i am bumping some old threads .all ecotec related .
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