This looks interesting.

http://elfieroev.blogspot.c...%3A00&max-results=16





EL (Electric) Fiero
My name is Bob Kaiser and I teach a pre-engineering program at a Career Center near Dayton, OH. I started this long EV journey over ten years ago when my students and I built solar-electric bicycles and raced them at Solar Bike Rayce USA. From bikes to electrathon type vehicles to my Fiero. My end goal is to try and teach others how to do this - but first things first... I have to get mine going!

[This message has been edited by CoolBlue87GT (edited 07-09-2008).]

Nice blog....but I'm not crazy about his choice of battery mounting locations. Above the trunk??

If it were me, I would widen the bottom part of the trunk and line it with batteries, retaining the upper portion as an actual trunk for quick trips to the grocery store.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Nice blog....but I'm not crazy about his choice of battery mounting locations. Above the trunk?? If it were me, I would widen the bottom part of the trunk and line it with batteries, retaining the upper portion as an actual trunk for quick trips to the grocery store.

You need a lot of batteries. For sealed/no-maintenance batteries, you can put a bunch where the current gas tank is, but you still need to put more in other locations. Here's a bunch of Electric conversions of Fiero's.

http://www.evalbum.com/type/PONT

I'm thinking he could have fit a lot more batteries in the back then that, and still had room for a usable trunk.

I wish I could find a deal on a motor, thats all the motivation I need to get into this. Ive built an electric riding mower, this is just a more expensive and slightly larger implementation. I could think of a million and one ways to fit the batteries in, SLA batts can be mounted in any orientation but upside down, with the gas tank, radiator, and engine bay, plus mod'ing the trunk to be square and take up some of the exhaust area, Im confident I could pack the thing to the top with batteries. Maybe even some non moving headlights and throw two batteries up there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

quote Originally posted by fieroparts.com: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Seems like a fairly sub par conversion. The slave is just sitting there still, VSS not plugged in, decklid springs not hooked up, a lot of electronics in the engine bay not sealed, bottom of the trunk chopped open, battery trays are just metal grids, and if im not mistaken, those batteries are common marine flooded acid type available from any walmart or parts store. Certainly far better could be done with proper batteries, not to mention IIRC, marine deep cycle is not the same as a purebred deep cycle.

Not hard core data, but the ballpark is around 200 watt-hours per mile at 60 mph.

Or if you prefer S.I. 720,000 Joules per 1.6 km at 100 kph.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 07-09-2008).]

Heres my dads conversion vid on youtube, the original 2.8v6 engine from this car(my old car) was donated to Bobadoofunk (if he still has it in black betty)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g43zUDP9sl8

In 2001 when I joined PFF---If anyone had told me there would be this much genuine interest in electric Fieros, I would have thought they had gone nuts.
Priorities change tho, & I am interested myself!!

I emailed him, see if he doesnt want a hand. He seems to have some wiring questions. At least I'll be able to put my unnatural Fiero knowlege to some good use.

I drag my feet on a motor swap because I know I want an electric swap. I just wish we could get more motor, I don't want a 23 horse electric motor, I want what Tesla has or something near it. All for not until I get my new garage built.

Well you have to keep in mind, the motor is rated at continous HP, not peak like a gas. Basically it will run forever without stopping at 23HP, but the same motor might possibly tolerate 100HP for 60 seconds continous. Max is actually dependant on the controller. Example, my lawnmower conversion is rated at 3.3 HP. With my controller it peaks at 16 HP, and im running it at around 5.8 continously for 45 minutes when its in use. It gets hot to the touch, but doesnt overheat.

Im wondering what the 11" motors put out, I see they're about twice the price of the 9" I imagine you could couple two motors together, and only power one normally, then dump juice into both at the same time if needed. Your only extra drag would be carrying and spinning the unpowered motor, but it would cost double, two motors and two controllers, you could still run one battery bank though, it better have some beefy cabling.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Well you have to keep in mind, the motor is rated at continous HP, not peak like a gas. Basically it will run forever without stopping at 23HP, but the same motor might possibly tolerate 100HP for 60 seconds continous. Max is actually dependant on the controller. Example, my lawnmower conversion is rated at 3.3 HP. With my controller it peaks at 16 HP, and im running it at around 5.8 continously for 45 minutes when its in use. It gets hot to the touch, but doesnt overheat. Im wondering what the 11" motors put out, I see they're about twice the price of the 9" I imagine you could couple two motors together, and only power one normally, then dump juice into both at the same time if needed. Your only extra drag would be carrying and spinning the unpowered motor, but it would cost double, two motors and two controllers, you could still run one battery bank though, it better have some beefy cabling.

All true... that 23 hp motor in actuality would perform about like a duke, maybe stronger because it would have maximum torque at zero rpm.

I've seen two motors coupled together, but that's probably overkill unless you are into drag racing or live at the peak of a very tall hill and need to climb it at the end of the day.

I bet it would drive like a peppy Duke, with all the torque available from a dead stop. And it would have to be a stick shift, so you could have a little fun rowing the gears, too. Hmmm... now I'm starting to get the itch to convert one...

quote Originally posted by fieroparts.com: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Wow, 15-25 mile range. That is completely worthless for most people, unless you're using it as a grocery getter. Oh wait. there's nowhere to put the groceries.
Seriously though, I love the concept of electric power, but our little cars don't give many options for battery storage. I would need a range of 120 miles to make this a worthwhile project for my drive/commute.

quote Originally posted by LAMBO: I would need a range of 120 miles to make this a worthwhile project for my drive/commute.

That's the problem...GM with billions of dollars at their disposal can't build an all electric car with 120 mile range. The best you can hope for is a car with enough range to get you to work and back on a single charge...about 30- 40 miles if you cram batteries into every nook and cranny of the Fiero..

It would work great for me. I live less than 5 miles from work. Too much money and way across the country too.

quote Originally posted by LAMBO: Wow, 15-25 mile range. That is completely worthless for most people, unless you're using it as a grocery getter. Oh wait. there's nowhere to put the groceries. Seriously though, I love the concept of electric power, but our little cars don't give many options for battery storage. I would need a range of 120 miles to make this a worthwhile project for my drive/commute.

I've also wondered how these vehicles perform when they've been sitting outside all day on a 10* day. How does the cold effect them? or does it?

quote Originally posted by jscott1: That's the problem...GM with billions of dollars at their disposal can't build an all electric car with 120 mile range. The best you can hope for is a car with enough range to get you to work and back on a single charge...about 30- 40 miles if you cram batteries into every nook and cranny of the Fiero..

Actually GM already built such a car:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

The issue is batteries, if you could buy EV size NiCad or NiMH batteries, the Fiero could probably have a 120 mile range. If the price of Lithium EV sized batteries comes down as sales increase, the range would probably be better than NiCad or NiMH.

I would most definitely not expect 15-20 mile range to be the norm. Like I said, he used walmart Marine batteries, not designed for traction use, and not anywhere near the capacity needed. If I could get a proven number for the amount of power needed to drive a Fiero at 55\65 MPH, I could tell you exactly how many batteries youd need. If you really planned it out, you could get a suprising amount of batteries in a Fiero. You could fill the radiator area, under the headlights, in the gas tunnel, square out the trunk, one under each louver vent, then a layer of them on top of the motor. I would think if I built one, the compromise would be on weight vs range, not range vs space.

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-21-2009).]

I've always wondered about a "supplemental" electric conversion. I mean how much power would it take to maintain a constant 30mph? 10hp?

String up 5 RC brushless motors attached to an axle and giddyup!

Downside is it would have to be a 12v system, so you'd need a few hundred amps to power it. IR losses would be higher.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Actually, they did, back in the 90's. The EV-1 with lead acid was running around 70 miles with some accessories on, the NiMH pack had nearly 50% more capacity. The same exact car now with lithium technologies would have no problem hitting 120 miles day in and day out, for years. JazzMan

First of all, the NiMH ten years ago would have made that EV-1 cost over $100,000. Which is why it was never offered for sale. The same EV-1 today with LiION would cost over $100,000. Which is why you don't see a 100% electric car coming out of GM.

You don't want lithium batteries in your car anyways. Remember the laptop and cell phone fires?

Unless they're LiFePO4 batteries.... but those are more expensive and more bulky.

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-21-2009).]

Must be the popular thing to do here in Ohio...

http://mycast.orb.com/orb/h...file.html?l=ba1100ns

Whats the range? According to the one on egay, 25 miles is top range. Need better range for todays commuter I would think. I drive 38 miles RT every day. Very interesting concepts and hats off to the ones actually making it happen.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Must be the popular thing to do here in Ohio... http://mycast.orb.com/orb/h...file.html?l=ba1100ns

Yeah, I came across his sight as well. Sounds like there is a shortage of motors out there right now.

This kit really interests me. Seems like the newer AC kits are the ones to go with if your wanting range.
http://www.electroauto.com/...g/ackits.shtml#ac914
I have a 100 mile commute to work each day. At todays fuel prices, it would only take me 3 years to recoup my cost, then its drive by and wave to all the gas stations I used to frequent.

quote Originally posted by katatak: Whats the range? According to the one on egay, 25 miles is top range. Need better range for todays commuter I would think. I drive 38 miles RT every day. Very interesting concepts and hats off to the ones actually making it happen.

The range really depends on battery selection. Using 6V golf cart batteries, a 38 mile round trip should be easily doable:

http://www.evalbum.com/126

Golf cart batteries are designed for deep cycle, high current capacity. The ebay electric Fiero uses 12V Marine deep cycle batteries that aren't really designed for electrical vehicle use.

quote Originally posted by Back On Holiday: Heres my dads conversion vid on youtube, the original 2.8v6 engine from this car(my old car) was donated to Bobadoofunk (if he still has it in black betty) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g43zUDP9sl8

Any comments?

I have a friend that works at HP in Houston off of SH 249. There is a fellow working there who claims top speed of 85 with an 30 mile range. I think its an 88. He used a GT for his EV. It looks like it would run around 3500 to switch one to electric. The transmission adapters are for sale all over the internet. Then its just a a controler and the cables to run to the battery racks.
A quote from WWW.evalbum.com/134
"Owner Monty McGraw
Location Spring, Texas US map
Email email image
Vehicle 1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
Motor Advanced DC FB1-4001 Series Wound DC
9"
Drivetrain 4 speed manual tranny from '85 GT (originally the '88 had an automatic)
Controller Auburn Scientific PC600-144 Kodiak
Batteries 18 Trojan T-875, 8.00 Volt, Lead-Acid, Flooded
System Voltage 144 Volts
Charger Zivan K3
Heater 1000 Watt ceramic in stock heater enclosure
DC/DC Converter Todd PC-40LV
Instrumentation a) 500 Amp ammeter b) E-meter
Top Speed 85 MPH (136 KPH)
on a freeway, 3rd place in 144V class, '96 APS
Seating Capacity 2 adults, trunk space for groceries
Curb Weight 3,600 Pounds (1,636 Kilograms)
Tires Michelin XV4 Green X tires inflated to 46 psi
- 144vdc gives much better acceleration than original 108vdc Solar Electric design, I was willing to sacrifice range from 60mile Solar Electric spec (I drove one at Green Motorworks in N. Hollywood) - '88 GT handling still flat in the corners, 9 of the 18 batteries are mounted with C.G. at axle height. - future projects include adding tach sending unit and A/C compressor pulley to tailshaft of motor."
Link:
http://www.evalbum.com/134

I have thought about this conversion.
Joe Crawford
Texas

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Uh... no... The second gen EV-1 with NiMH came out in December 1999 and was produced through 2000. The EV-1 program itself ran through 2003. NiMH batteries weren't that expensive seven or eight years ago. The same EV-1 today with a whopping big LiIon (or better, LiPo) would cost less than 100,000 perhaps, oddly enough about what a Tesla cost in limited production hand-made production. But then again, the first cars were super-expensive hand-build machines that only the wealthiest early adopters could afford, as were the first airplanes, First TVs, first CD players, first VCRs, etc., etc. JazzMan

Jazz I have to respectfully disagree. Even if the NiMH cells themselves are cheap, repackaging them and doing the development testing to guarantee they will work in your application is what will eat your lunch. I just built less than 50 Nimh batteries for NASA that operate the wireless video camera and lights on the space suit at a cost just over a million. The cells themselves were the cheapest part of the cost...then add in the thermal vacuum testing, and the personnel costs to run the test and Cha-Ching!

If GM had tried to sell the EV-1 at a profit then it would have been a $100,000 niche car.

The Chevy Volt with it's 40 mile range lithium battery is expected to sell at a loss in the $40,000 range.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 07-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by CoolBlue87GT: From bikes to electrathon type vehicles to my Fiero.

Interseting. You are the second person on Pennocks in the last fer weeks to comment that they had built an electrathon car.

Ive been talking to the owner of the first link, he's getting there, I helped him with some wiring issues.

He linked me to this

http://www.evalbum.com/1590

Now this is what I've been telling people, packed with 6v golf cart batteries at 215ah. 24 batteries, 76 mile range. He has some nice power usage reports there I will have to consider.

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-21-2009).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I'm looking forward to the first production EVs from Toyota, they should be nice. JazzMan

You missed the boat Jazzman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

[This message has been edited by blizazer (edited 07-14-2008).]

The solar panels on that Gold Fiero are only for topping off the 12V system. They were never intended to be hooked to the traction motor. It would have to sit in the sun for days if not weeks to make enough energy to drive a single mile. Even very smart people can't seem to understand how diffuse the solar flux is, and why you can't power a car with a car based solar array, (unless it's one of those ridiculously small lightweight cars in the Solar Challenge).

As for Lithum Batteries, if you have deep pockets, and have the right chemistry to avoid Boom, that's the way of the future. NASA has yet to develop a large format lithium battery for any space application. It's not for lack of trying, we've had to abandon several designs because they were considered unsafe.