Well I thought of posting a new thread.
Please tell me if I should save the car or let it go?
I need some advise.
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This car has been sitting in storage for many months and is no longer running. It is in need of restoration. The engine was rebuilt at about 125,000 miles by a professional racing engine builder, but is now in need of overhaul, due to not being run for too long. The clutch is badly worn and in need of replacement, and the weatherstripping also. The car needs repainted, and the brakes will require complete overhaul due to lack of use. The engine is balanced and blueprinted with much precision machine work, including cylinder head porting. Estimated output near 300 horsepower. Modification of the computer chip will unleash more potential from this engine. It is currently still using the OEM computer chip. The vehicle is all original other than mechanical upkeep and internal machine work to the engine. I have had a LOT of work done to this car over the years, but now I do not currently have what is required to give it proper care and restoration. This car needs a good home. I need to sell ASAP, since I am planning a move and need the storage space and the money. Please make me a reasonable offer -- I am motivated to SELL NOW!
Since I parked it, the battery has gone dead and it won't crank, but I checked the oil and I don't think it is a good idea to run it as-is. I used Castrol GTX 20W-50 oil in it (natural, not synthetic) and the dirt has separated from the oil, from going too long without running. The rear main seal should be replaced, and you have to drop the oil pan to do that anyway, so my approach would be to pull the engine, drop the oil pan (oil and all) and clean the pan out good, and then put new oil in it after putting a new rear main seal in it and putting the oil pan back on it. Replace the oil filter, and put a new battery with it, and you should be ready to run. Then change the oil again within, say...500 miles (like a break-in) and it should be cleaned out good. This engine REQUIRES minimum 20W-50 oil to maintain pressure because of the clearances the engine builder decided to use, and it REQUIRES the highest octane fuel you can buy, with 104+ octane boost additive to keep it happy because of the increased compression and combustion temperature in the chambers. I used to run 93 octane unleaded with the "street" version of 104+ (not the "race" version) and it ran good with that. This engine runs HOT, because it makes a LOT of power. It runs best between 4000 and 7000 rpm, and does NOT have a smooth idle. You will need a vacuum reservoir for your power brakes, and I would highly recommend changing the alternator to a higher amperage (that was going to be the next thing I did to it, but then I had to quit driving it). Once we put the big electric fuel pump in it, it draws too much current for the stock alternator, especially at idle and low speeds. The engine is not happy to run below 2000 rpm, and it really wants to be kept at about 2500 rpm or a little higher for cruising speed. I would also highly recommend adding a rev-limiter. I never got around to it, but it could sure use one, just to be safe. The engine is precision balanced and will rev VERY quick, and it will rev way beyond what is safe for it. The engine builder built it to withstand 7200 rpm, and I had it past that once with no ill-effect (in fact, it was still pulling hard...not just making noise), but it is better to have a rev-limiter and not need it than to need it and not have it.
I was driving it right up to the day I parked it (because the headlights won't come all the way up anymore, and it won't pass our state motor vehicle inspection like that). The clutch still works properly, it is just very worn. We never could really find a clutch that could stand up to the power of the engine for very long. I was going to contact RAM Clutches, because they came out with one that would fit it, and I hadn't tried theirs yet, but I never did it because my priorities had to be elsewhere.
Please do not hesitate to contact me with any questions about this vehicle. I know nearly all of its history, since I have owned it for 15 years. Most of what you see in the pictures is dust and cobwebs from sitting in the storage bay. I have plenty of advice for anyone who is interested in picking up this project where we left off.
Question & Answer Answered On
Q: what is the chassis condition? (rust etc) Aug-10-08
A: Hi, Thank you for contacting me about the car. The chassis was completely removed and re-installed twice (once when the engine was rebuilt, and then again when the transaxle was rebuilt). The chassis is in fine shape. Sorry I did not respond more quickly. I am in the process of moving, and have been extremely busy -- I am also halfway across the country from home right now, on the other side of the Mississippi River. That is why I did not post any more pictures. I have run into a lot of delays in the moving process and it has taken away from my time to do other things; but it must be done. Of course, I must also sell this car as a part of the moving process, since I need the storage bay for other things. A difficult situation to be in for me, but not impossible to overcome. I would need to have the car removed ASAP after my return Monday. Thank for for writing. I apologize again for not responding sooner.
Q: Where would this be picked up? Aug-10-08
A: Hi, The car is sitting in an enclosed storage bay (non-environmentally controlled) in Cross Lanes, West Virginia (ZIP Code 25313).
Q: Where are you located? Aug-10-08
A: Hi, The car is sitting in an enclosed storage bay (non-environmentally controlled) in Cross Lanes, West Virginia (ZIP Code 25313).
Q: wondering 2 things ? 1 were are you located? and two are you looking to get cash only? ot would you trade? Aug-03-08
A: Hi, The car is sitting in an enclosed storage bay (non-environmentally controlled) in Cross Lanes, West Virginia (ZIP Code 25313). Yes, I need cash only -- I am not in a position to accept any trades right now. Thanks for your interest!
Q: Two more questions. You said you would meet me at the storage site and open it up, I am a few states away and would not be able to travel in order to pick up this car. I know you would not pay for the transportation but would you make the proper arrangements within a couple of days of receipt of payment? The more i read your answeres about the car the more it sounds like the engine is blown is this correct? Has this car ever been in an accident, and no i dont remember is not a good enough answer. More pictures of the interior and of the engine and storage compartments need to be posted. Aug-03-08
A: Hi, Yes, I would make any necessary arrangements for the car to be picked up, that is not a problem at all. I will meet at the storage site and have it unlocked for whomever comes to pick up the car. The engine is not blown. It just hasn't been started or run for a long time. It is not a good idea to take an engine that has been sitting like that and just start it up. It can lead to severe internal damage. It should be overhauled...and by that I mean dissassembled, cleaned, new bearings and gaskets, and reassembled. This process, when done correctly, means that every part needs to be carefully replaced back to its exact original location inside the engine where it came from. For example, each lifter needs to be matched up with the cam lobe that it came from, each piston needs put back in the same cylinder it came from, etc. The parts need cleaned with appropriate cleaner and then re-lubed prior to re-assembly. That is the way I would recommend it be done. That is what I would do if I were doing it. It does need the rear main seal replaced, and new bearings and gaskets are part of any standard overhaul. I stated in the listing the car does not run and is in need of complete restoration. It needs taken apart, cleaned up, put back together, and repainted. The car has not been in an accident since I have owned it. I never checked its history when I bought it, but I don't believe it was wrecked before either. I see no indication that it was ever wrecked. Yes, I have been receiving a lot of requests for more pictures, so I will be going to the storage facility as soon as I can to get more pictures and I will either email them to anyone interested or post them on the listing, if I can figure out how to add them. Thanks again for writing!
Q: What does the enterior look like? Aug-03-08
A: The interior is completely stock; grey cloth. I will have to go back to the storage facility and take more pictures. I don't have any pictures of the interior already on my computer. If you would please send me your email address, I will pass the new pictures along once I get them. Thank you for your interest!
Q: Was it a originally 5sp? What trans in it now? Windshield condition? Exhaust completely installed, stainlees steel headers, no cats. distance to Baltimore? zip code? Aug-02-08
A: Hi, Yes, the car was originally a 5-speed. It has the Getrag transmission. The windshield is fine, it just needs washed. The exhaust is completely installed, I don't think the headers are made of stainless steel, though -- they are part number 95727 from Fiero Store DOT COM. The catalytic converter was removed. The car is sitting in an enclosed storage bay (non-environmentally controlled) in Cross Lanes, West Virginia (ZIP Code 25313). Distance to Baltimore? About 375 miles; estimated drive time 6 hours or so. Thanks for your interest, and thanks for taking the time to write with your questions!
Q: will you help the winning bidder with shipping arrangements and pickup. toolcan2007 Aug-02-08
A: Hi, It depends on what kind of help you need. I will not pay for any of it, but I will be in contact to make arrangements for us to meet at the storage facility and have it unlocked. I would recommend a rollback truck with a winch. That is how I got it there in the first place, and that would be the best way to get it out and transported. I am not physically able to shove that car (or any car, for that matter) around anymore, but I can help steer it onto the truck, for instance. I will help in whatever way I can. I am a person that is easy to get along with and willing to pitch in when needed, provided it is within my means and ability and not too risky for me. I am a careful person and I won't put myself in a situation that could result in injury (or re-injury, in my case), but as I said, I will do what I can. I recommend you bring someone with you who is knowledgeable on loading and hauling vehicles, if possible. If there is anything in particular you can think of that you need that I didn't cover in my answer here, please message me again, and I will work something out with you. Thanks for writing!
Q: Hello,im looking for a fiero to fix up for my son,I am located in bluefield virginia,could the car be put on a tow dolley?possibly start if it had a new battery? thanks Aug-02-08
A: Hello, As I stated in the listing, I do NOT think it is a good idea to try to start this engine or run the car without first tearing it down and overhauling it. The car is in need of a total restoration. It is a major project that will require a lot of patience and talent applied. I think the most difficult part of the restoration process will be the weather-stripping. It all needs replaced, due to age. The T-Tops do leak when under high pressure. I do not advise going through a drive-through car wash or pointing a high-pressure sprayer directly on the T-Tops, as they will leak under these conditions. But during normal circumstances they do not have an appreciable leak. I also believe the car is best transported on a rollback truck. I have always transported it in this way when possible. I wouldn't recommend using a dolley to tow this car, especially for a long trip. Thank your for your interest, and thank you for taking the time to write and ask about the car!
Q: Where are yo located? I am in FL. Aug-02-08
A: Hi, The car is sitting in an enclosed storage bay (non-environmentally controlled) in Cross Lanes, West Virginia (ZIP Code 25313). I urge everyone to please read all the answer postings -- there is a lot of additional information there and this is the third time I have posted the answer to this particular question (no offense). I urge readers to continue to ask questions, since this gives me an opportunity to give more details and additional information that was not in the initial listing itself. Speaking of that, I will give my opinion on another issue here. There is an electrical issue. I’m not sure exactly what is causing it, but it’s possible there are both a bad ground and a short in the wiring. The distributor blows ignition modules frequently. I think there may be a short in one of the wires that go to/from the distributor. I think there are only 4 wires, so if that is what it is, it shouldn't take long to find, with the proper diagnostic tools and a wiring schematic. The bad ground could be between the alternator and the block or with the battery or something like that. Again, I am just offering a theory, because I haven't had time to investigate it thoroughly. The other thing about the electrical problem is that the same fuse repeatedly blows (the circuit for the horn). I believe part of the electrical problems exist because we did not change the alternator to a higher capacity unit. We used a much bigger fuel pump (Part# 52402 from FieroStore DOT COM, along with the adjustable fuel pressure regulator) and changed the ignition coil to an MSD unit (much higher output than stock). Maybe just changing out the alternator to a higher output will cure some of this. I am certain it could use it, and I would do that before digging into troubleshooting the wiring. I have also thought maybe the ignition modules going out could be heat-related, since the engine does put out a LOT of heat. Thanks for writing! Anything else, just ask!
Q: Hello, What area of the country are you in...I'm in FL. What has been done to this 2.8L such that it could possibly put out 300 flywheel HP? Thanks, JIM Aug-02-08
A: Hi, I am estimating the horsepower myself, based on what I knew the car did when it was running. Just doing the math on the car’s acceleration time means it would need at least 250 HP to explain what I saw. Beyond this, I had the engine builder (a former drag car driver) get behind the wheel once and he made the car do things I never dared. I went along for the ride! If you want to know more about what should be done to get it running again and what could be done to tune it further, we can get into that in another question. We stopped short on the tuning because the computer programming is very frustrating to modify compared to some things, but there are ways around this, I believe. The entire engine was precision machined, blueprinted and balanced, to start. The block and heads were milled to achieve zero deck height and raise the compression ratio. The cylinder heads were ground out to accept larger intake and exhaust valves, then given a 5-angle valve job; all the combustion chambers were cc’d and matched during chamber porting. The intake and exhaust runners were fully ported for maximum effect. The block was bored and oversize hyper-eutectic pistons installed. The pistons were sent to the machine shop to have valve reliefs fly-cut into them. The combination of the larger valves, zero deck height on the block, and higher lift on the camshaft made this necessary. The camshaft is a hydraulic camshaft, and the specs don’t look like much on paper, but the small displacement of the engine makes it relatively more radical than if the same grind were used in a larger displacement engine. It has a rough idle with low vacuum (not enough to operate the brakes at low engine speed) and actually puts out less horsepower than stock below about 2500 rpm (I don’t need a dyno sheet to tell me that – I can FEEL it). It’s power band has been moved up into the 4000 to 7000 rpm range, with a 7200 rpm redline. Please read the other answers posted for more info.
Q: Do you have any pictures of the motor? If not can you take some pictures of the motor and send them to my e-mail? DarthKlipsch@gmail.com Aug-02-08
A: Hello, I don't have any pictures of the engine, but there is not much to see -- it looks nearly identical to a stock engine! Nearly everything that was done to it is not notable from the outward appearance. The MSD coil and MSD ignition wires blend in perfectly since they are also red (similar to how the intake manifold was painted from the factory). The adjustable fuel pressure regulator is tucked away out of sight, and the headers are not that obvious because the engine is transversely mounted (you can't see but one of the manifolds). I will see what I can do about making a trip to the storage bay and getting more pictures. I have been pondering the car a lot, since so many questions have been coming in, and I want to take this opportunity to add as much information as I can here for the benefit of everyone who reads this. Most of what you see on the paint is just dust from sitting in storage, but the front hood and rear deck lid have whitish areas on them where the paint is worn down to the primer. GM had trouble with their paint process in the late 1980's, and Pontiac was widely affected. I have seen other cars with this same problem (Fieros and non-Fieros alike). The car will clean up fairly well with a strong detergent and a good scrubbing, but the paint problem still remains; that is why I say it needs repainted. The interior is in fairly good condition. I had a rip in the side of the driver's seat repaired a while back, and again, it just needs a trip to the detail shop after a good session with a vacuum cleaner. All of the gauges work. The fuel gauge (as all GM vehicles of this era I have ever owned) goes above full when full and is still reading a quarter tank when it is actually empty. I think it may have something to do with the float getting stuck with age. I had a Chevy S-10 truck that did this, another Fiero that did this, and a Chevy Lumina that did the same exact thing. It's just another GM problem -- nothing particular to Fieros.
Q: I currently own a fiero, I have known many people who have had GTs, 2.8l, 3.8l modded fieros, none of them come even close to 300hp NA. In order to get 300hp out of a 2.8l you would HAVE to use forced induction. My question in have you proven this horsepower? Aug-01-08
A: As I answered in a previous inquiry on this matter, the horsepower of the engine is not proven. It is my pleasure to provide as much information about the vehicle as I can to anyone with questions. Thank you for asking!
Q: Can you prove that in fact that the HP is near 300HP? You are asking us bidders to believe what you are saying, and I, for one, wasn't born yesterday. Do you have an verified dyno sheet with the HP rating? Aug-01-08
A: No, I cannot prove the HP is near 300. We did not dyno test the engine, so I do not have a dyno sheet with the HP rating. Since it won't even start at the present time, it is currently producing exactly ZERO horsepower. I wasn't born yesterday either, but I don't believe that is the point either of us are trying to make here. I put nearly $20,000 into that car, total. The engine is precision machined and blueprinted and balanced with the exact same care as a full-race drag-racing engine. In fact, depending on what state laws apply (maybe even those of WV), the vehicle is not street-legal in some places. The Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve and the Catalytic Converter were removed from the exhaust system when the steel tubing headers were installed (Part # 95727 from the Fiero Store -- check their website at FieroStore DOT COM to verify the current price of $599.99) and this is considered a violation in some states that perform vehicle inspections. I will continue to answer questions as they arise. Thank you for taking the time to look at the listing and write to me.
Q: Dude you seriously need to revise your listing! There is no way on gods green earth that you can get anywhere near 300HP on Fiero 2.8 motor. Even if you put NOS on it it wouldn't have that kind of HP no matter what you built the motor with! I have a 3800 Supercharged motor in mine and even that is only 240 HP. Your trying to misslead people and you should be banned from existence. Aug-01-08
A: I disagree, and I know better. I have a 2007 Pontiac G6 as a daily driver, with a naturally aspirated 3.5L V6 engine in it, which has 219HP (almost as much as your larger supercharged engine). The 2008 model G6 with the GXP package has an available 3.6L V6 engine (also naturally aspirated) with 252 horsepower (MORE than your larger, supercharged engine). There are a lot of variables that determine horsepower output, and I spent about $10,000 making sure that those variables were addressed on this particular engine. The engine in this car was built by a professional racing engine builder, and he is quite an expert. Think of it this way: if this were a 350 V8, it would have close to 600 horsepower. There are plenty of 350 V8s running around out there with MUCH more than 600 horsepower. If you ever watched NASCAR Winston Cup racing, you have seen a bunch of them. In fact, it is well-known that without the restrictor plates, those 358 cid engines (5.9L) put out OVER 800 horsepower. As radical as my V6 is, it is still not that radical, so you can see my claim is not as exaggerated as you believe. With all that being brought to light and laid on the table for all to see, I will close by saying I resent the accusation that I am (quote)trying to misslead people and (quote) should be banned from existence. I wish you could have known the joy I once had when driving my Fiero, before I put it in storage. I wish you could have experienced the amazing power this engine made in its heyday. If you had, then this exchange of words would not have taken place. I am sorry I have to sell my car. It is not what I originally intended to do. But it is my sincere hope that someone that can appreciate it for what it is and what it can be will make the effort to restore it and get it running again the way it once did -- and not only that, I hope they get it running better than it did when I had it on the road. I feel better now, and I hope you do too. Thanks for writing!
Q: Does it have any damage history? Is there any corrosion? Aug-01-08
A: Damage? No. I do remember, now that I think about it...I lost the key to the locking T-Tops. One of the T-Tops is locked and the other is unlocked, so a person could take one of the T-Tops to a locksmith and have a set of keys made for the lock. Corrosion? Not anything other than what would be expected for a car this age. The Fiero body is made of fiberglass and urethane, and the interior is cloth and plastic, so that doesn't leave much to corrode. The engine was completely rebuilt at 125,000 miles, and I put less than 35,000 more miles on it after that, so as far as I know, the frame is okay, if that is what you're wondering about. The transaxle was rebuilt also, after the engine was rebuilt, so that car has already been taken apart and put back together once. I had the steering and brakes completely redone a while back (before the engine and transaxle) but the brakes will need redone again, as I mentioned.
Q: Good morning, I have 2 questions for you before bidding on your item: 1)What state is this car in? 2)Can you tell me what the vin# so I can check it through carfax. Let me know. Thank You Aug-01-08
A: Hi, The car is sitting in an enclosed storage bay (non-environmentally controlled) in Cross Lanes, West Virginia (ZIP Code 25313). The VIN# is: 1G2PE1191JP223406 Thank you for your interest!
[This message has been edited by MRJ (edited 09-10-2008).]
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