PIcked it up Friday and drove it back to Virginia. 935 miles, more or less, in an LS2 powered 6 speed 328-GTS replica.
A few things I noticed, in no particular order:
1) This thing is really fast. 2) Stupid fast. 3) First gear goes by in a blink. 4) 25.8 MPG at 70 MPH. This removes all doubt, it ain't a Prius. 5) Second, third, and fourth gears are incredible. Nail the throttle at 50 MPH in fourth and it takes off like a rocket. 6) It is really fast 7) At 70-75 MPH in sixth gear it is at 2100 RPM. BTW it keeps pulling in sixth gear all the way down to about 45 or 50 MPH. Naturally it's pretty dead feeling at that speed, BUT it's not lugging. 8) The Corvette drive-by-wire system seems to work just fine. I was a little bit skeptical at first, but now I'm a believer. 9) If you have stock brakes you will need an upgrade because 10) This thing is really fast and you come up on other cars sooner than you are used to.
I'll post more later. Now I need to go and get the smushed bugs off the nose.
John
[This message has been edited by Doc John (edited 08-06-2007).]
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02:35 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
1) This thing is really fast. 2) Stupid fast. 3) Nail the throttle at 50 MPH in fourth and it takes of like a rocket. 4) It is really fast 5) This thing is really fast and you come up on other cars sooner than you are used to.
I'll post more later.
John
I like the sound of that - please post more later. Awesome!
Rob
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10:21 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
OK, I thought I'd take Mrs DocJohn for a ride in the LS-2 car. We were merging on to the freeway and I saw that I had a pretty good gap ahead of me. I nailed the throttle in third gear. The car took off like a rocket. I, of course, knew what was coming and had a huge grin on my face; when I turn to my wife she growled "Geez! you could have warned me!" She went from scowl to grin a few times before the grin finally won the day.
Full throttle blasts in second, third, and fourth are positively addictive.
If driving this car doesn't put a smile on your face, you should seek medical attention immediately. You may be dead!
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07:48 PM
AutoTech Member
Posts: 2385 From: St. Charles, Illinois Registered: Aug 2004
Some of you will remember that I recently sold Chop Top #13 to a PFF'er in AZ.
Here are a couple of pics from when I had it in the Mall.....
Since these pics were taken we have installed a 6 speed & we've converted the doors to suicide doors. However what we're looking at here is the ride height.
We just finished putting a set of the bigbrakes on the car & all poly bushings. We also used a simple set of coil overs in the rear. In the front we used a set of the Bell-Tech drop spindles that I've been hoarding in my collection for years. Over the last 5 years I've collected every set of Bell Tech Drop Spindles I've found (3 sets). I've never intended on selling these spindles I've collected because I collected them for my own cars. But I let go of one set for this car. (The rest are not for sale, however, if you have a set, I'll buy them.)
Bell-Tech used to make these spindles for our Fieros back in the late 80's & early 90's. Fiero owners back then complained about how expensive they were & because of low volumes of sales Bell-Tech discontinued tham & moved on to the more high volume stuff they make today. It's a shame because these spindles bolt on & maintain all the stock Fiero suspension geometry & travel.
So this is what it looks like today........ How I wish Bell-Tech was still making parts for us today.
Archie, I have Belltech on my 85GT (not for sale), you're right they ride as stock. I emailed Belltech about a year ago asking about the possibility of reproducing these, they replied they had no plans, but I doubt that the request went too far up the chain of command. So I dropped it, but I still believe they would produce more if we could generate enough interest. I know a yes, or a I want them wouldn't work, it would take firm commitment from probably 25 people and probably a 50% down payment. I'd get another set if for no other reason than to have them. BTW, wished you'd figure out a way to chop t-top cars, even 2 inches would satisfy me.
[This message has been edited by ChopTop (edited 05-04-2007).]
Archie, I know that you may not really like stret dreams one stinkin bit, for good reason, but they do make a drop spindle. http://www.streetdreamsbyross.com/dropspindles.php I believe they do require the contorl to be trimmed, do the Belltech's require this?
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10:43 AM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Archie, I know that you may not really like stret dreams one stinkin bit, for good reason, but they do make a drop spindle. http://www.streetdreamsbyross.com/dropspindles.php I believe they do require the contorl to be trimmed, do the Belltech's require this?
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11:17 AM
PFF
System Bot
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Since these pics were taken we have installed a 6 speed & we've converted the doors to suicide doors. However what we're looking at here is the ride height.
Archie
It's amazing how much better it looks just from adjusting the ride height. It's all the little details that make a Fiero look nice.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 05-07-2007).]
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01:37 PM
Fierotaz Member
Posts: 1289 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2004
Originally posted by madcurl: What the pick-up date for #013? Dells?
If I can work it out I would love to pick it up and make a run by the Dells or just pick it up in the Dells. We will have to see.
quote
Originally posted by jscott1: It's amazing how much better it looks just from adjusting the ride height. It's all the little details that make a Fiero look nice.
I could not agree more! I love the lower look! Archie thanks again, I can't say it enough!!!
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10:51 PM
May 17th, 2007
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
I've been asked in another thread what it takes to install the 6 speed transmissions into Fieros with other types of engine swaps.
I didn't want to hijeck that thread so I've moved the topic here.
6 Speed swap worksheet for 3800 Swaps. (Engineering Folder)
Note: as of this date, we haven't done any 6 speed swaps to 3800 engined cars. However we're sure we can use the 6 speed with those engines.
There are only 2 real differences between a swap to the 3800 & the swaps we've already done to the 2.8, 4.9 & SBC engines. #1 What is the distance that the 3800 Flywheel sticks out from the back of the engine. #2 The method of attaching the Intermediate shaft bearing mount to the 3800 engine block.
There are also 2 different scenarios we have to deal with when quoting the 6 speed to the 3800 kit. #1 Would deal with new installs where the 3800 engine is not presently fitted into the car & the 6 speed is being put in as part of a virgin install of a 3800. #2 The car already has the engine installed into it & the customer is looking to retrofit the 6 speed into the existing install.
Other factors that have to considered deal with the current configuration of the car. The year & model of the car? Is the car a stick shift car? What transmission do you have? What shifter? If it’s a virgin build, have you already purchased a flywheel for the engine? Does that Flywheel have the Fiero pressure plate bolt pattern on it?
We don’t do 3800 engine installs here & as such, we don’t have any of the various 3800 engine blocks here to build the intermediate Shaft Bearing Mount to be a direct bolt on & we are unfamiliar with the various flywheels used on the 3800 swaps. Nor are we familiar with the various “kits” or mounts that are being used on “normal” 3800 engine swaps.
As I understand it, there are 2 or 3 different flywheels used on these swaps & there are several different engine mounting bracketing methods used on these engines.
It was easy to design a “virgin” & a retrofit kit for the 6 speed into the SBC swaps. I am real familiar with the various mounting methods & parts used in a SBC swap, so it was relatively easy to design a 6 speed “virgin” & retrofit kit to allow the customer to keep & use as many of his existing parts as possible, thus keeping his costs down.
My goal is to someday have enough information on the 3800, 3.8, Nstar & various 3.4 engines & their mounting methods that I can build 100% complete kits for those configurations using as many current parts they have as we can to keep their 6 speed swap costs as low as possible.
On the 2.8 & 4.9 kits, we had customers who brought their existing 2.8 & 4.9 cars in for development purposes. We learned quite a bit from those cars that will help us supply a more complete 6 speed swap kit for use in future kits we will supply to the owners of those configurations.
So what’s my plan for right now for anyone wanting a kit to convert the 6 speed to a 3800?
#1 What is the distance that the 3800 Flywheel sticks out from the back of the engine.
#2 The Intermediate shaft bearing mount: When doing this swap, you must have the Intermediate shaft bearing mount bolted solidly to the engine block in just the right location. Since we don’t 3800 engine blocks here to do that mounting with, the initial customers will have to aid us in getting this done. We have several generic mounts already made up out of 6061 AL block with the correct bearing bores & snap ring grooves & extra material in the area where it would need to bolt to the engine block. These “Pillow Blocks” can be supplied to the builder who can then modify them to fit their engine blocks in the proper place.
#3 For my information & to make sure these is enough room for the Right side imboard tri-pot, I also will be asking for a dimension from the crankshaft centerline to the side of the block that faces the backside of the car.
#4, If the car is a retrofit it is important that I know exactly where the Engine/Transmission is located in the car Left to Right. I have developed a measurement you can take to determine the Left to Right location from the Left side shock tower.
Archie
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01:22 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
The flywheel used on the 3800 is essentially a stock 2.8 flywheel. What is done is we take a '96 Camaro flywheel and cut it down to 0.840" from mounting surface on the crank to friction surface. We then use a 2.8 5 speed clutch and pressure plate combo. This is to bolt up to the 5 speed getrag. Now, if you can figure out a way without replacing the flywheel on the 2.8, rather just an adapter and a new pressure plate/flywheel combo, it would solve the issue of bolting the 6 speed to the 3800.
2nd, shift cables - Currently, the 3800 has a crossover pipe that goes over transmission and collects into the rear manifold. I predict this as being in interference with the shift cables. You will need to be able to assure that the shift cables will not interfere with this, either that, or we will have to run custom exhaust, and that should be noted.
3rd, Drive axles - I will, or someone else can get you the measurements for this. There is a place on the block itself to bolt to, however, I do not have the measurements. This is probably where you're going to have to put the mount for halfshaft. (note the 4 bolt holes to the left of the oil filter adapter) Now keep in mind, the bottom three holes are also where your front engine mount is bolted to.
If someone could get those measurements and someone else confirm it, it would be much appreciated. I would but I'm in arizona until july and forgot to take my 3800 with me
Joe
[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 07-16-2007).]
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03:22 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
The flywheel used on the 3800 is essentially a stock 2.8 flywheel. What is done is we take a '96 Camaro flywheel and cut it down to 0.840" from mounting surface on the crank to friction surface. We then use a 2.8 5 speed clutch and pressure plate combo. This is to bolt up to the 5 speed getrag. Now, if you can figure out a way without replacing the flywheel on the 2.8, rather just an adapter and a new pressure plate/flywheel combo, it would solve the issue of bolting the 6 speed to the 3800.
As far as the engine to transmission I already know how to do it, I just need the dimension from the face of the engine to the face of the flywheel. If you are using the Camaro flywheel with a virgin build, you can leave the Flywheel at the stock thickness & take the measurement.
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:
2nd, shift cables - Currently, the 3800 has a crossover pipe that goes over transmission and collects into the rear manifold. I predict this as being in interference with the shift cables. You will need to be able to assure that the shift cables will not interfere with this, either that, or we will have to run custom exhaust, and that should be noted.
We've done more than a dozen 6 speed swaps with these cables & mounting brackets & they've worked great up to now. The 2.8 we did this swap to had plenty of clearance to the crossover pipe.
The 4.9 we did this swap to had a non-stock (& non 4.9) crossover pipe & our shift cable mounting bracket & shift cables fit underneath it.
We use a modified 4 speed shifter, Getrag shift cables, & a custom designed jig built mounting for the shift cables & it's worked on everything so far.
So the only assurance you're getting is that if there is interference it's going to be easier for you to modify the exhaust pipe than it's going to be for me to redesign the shift cables & mounting.
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:
3rd, Drive axles - I will, or someone else can get you the measurements for this. There is a place on the block itself to bolt to, however, I do not have the measurements. This is probably where you're going to have to put the mount for halfshaft. (note the 4 bolt holes to the left of the oil filter adapter) Now keep in mind, the bottom three holes are also where your front engine mount is bolted to.
If someone could get those measurements and someone else confirm it, it would be much appreciated. I would but I'm in arizona until july and forgot to take my 3800 with me
Joe
That is the area where the bearing mount will need to be. Getting a good solid mounting for the bearing mount is a must, so there will be a need to share some of these mounting holes. On the 4.9 conversion we did, we had to make the engine mount & bearing mount work together on a few common holes. As stated in my opening statement, this is something you'll have to do during assembly unless you want to bring the car here.
One more thing. To make sure there's enough clearance for the Intermediate shaft inboard Tripot, we need to know the measurement from the crank centerline to the side of the engine block that will be facing the rear of the car.
This is a picture of an LS1 engine showing what measurement I need.
I think that covers it all.
Archie
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09:35 PM
Jul 17th, 2007
PaulJK Member
Posts: 6638 From: Los Angeles Registered: Oct 2001
I thought you might like to see what one of my customers is doing with our V-8 swap kits.
This shop is building SBC powered trikes for Disabled Veterans. Wander around his site & you'll see that he's won a few awards from Veterans groups & others.
Before you start beating up on Trikes, see who he's building them for.
Pretty cool, wish they had batter pictures of the rear suspension. Its a lot easier to get a custom bike build than a custom car when your building it from the ground up.
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05:25 PM
Jul 21st, 2007
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
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