One of the coolest ongoing projects on the forum.

Badly needed bump.

Joe

They say a picture is worth a thousand words



Hunt didn't need the boat after he caught this one!

And we caught 50 of these in one day



Sadly, after returning from the north country, I had to deal with the harsh Fiero realities of life. My daily driver 3.4 had developed an apparant vacum leak which I just couldn't trace down....so I decided to pull a good running 2.8 from another car and swap it into my daily driver. There are priorities and having a good running fairly fuel efficent daily driver is way up there. Anyhow, I should be able to get back into the Pantera building thing this weekend.

David Breeze

[This message has been edited by opm2000 (edited 08-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by opm2000: They say a picture is worth a thousand words Hunt didn't need the boat after he caught this one! And we caught 50 of these in one day Sadly, after returning from the north country, I had to deal with the harsh Fiero realities of life. My daily driver 3.4 had developed an apparant vacum leak which I just couldn't trace down....so I decided to pull a good running 2.8 from another car and swap it into my daily driver. There are priorities and having a good running fairly fuel efficent daily driver is way up there. Anyhow, I should be able to get back into the Pantera building thing this weekend. David Breeze

nice northern pike and at that size delicious eating

Bump

mega bump need a progress report please

quote Originally posted by opm2000: Sadly, after returning from the north country, I had to deal with the harsh Fiero realities of life. My daily driver 3.4 had developed an apparant vacum leak which I just couldn't trace down....so I decided to pull a good running 2.8 from another car and swap it into my daily driver. There are priorities and having a good running fairly fuel efficent daily driver is way up there. Anyhow, I should be able to get back into the Pantera building thing this weekend. David Breeze

Is this the 87GT you bought from me in 2000? If so, how many miles does she have now!
Marc

Gentlemen,
Thanks for the kind bumps. Yep Gokart, that's the GT I bought from you. It suffered a broken timing chain after my son ran it for two years, so we swapped in what turned out to be a real stout 3.4. Loved that, but recently it developed a vacum leak which I couldn't solve without pulling the motor, so we just swapped the 103,000 mi. 2.8 out of the yellow Pantera. The GT now has 165,300 on the chassis.



I actually had to install the 2.8 twice, since I cheap-od out and tried to use the existing clutch plate that was on the 2.8 ( it had a 4spd trans ). Upon firing up, it sounded like a wheelbarrow of steel was being dumped behind the GT. I pulled the 2.8, expecting to see a destroyed throwout bearing, but found this:



Turns out this was a remanufactured clutch plate, and the two circled rivets had been repaired by putting the steel squares over the rivet holes, and riveting & welding them on. The heads of the rivets are @ 1/16" higher than the others. Worked fine in a 4spd trans, but in the 5spd they found interference along the backwall of the bellhousing. Oh well, new clutch solved the problem and it runs like a top.

Mostly, I've been doing normal Fiero-type stuff. The chassis is up high enough to get underneath and chassis paint everything.



And all brake lines, coolant lines, heater & AC lines are off for cleanup & paint. The AC components are out for flushing & conversion, and the radiator is out for replacement.



The front end parts have been sandblasted for powdercoating:



I typically degrease parts with a parts washer and sandblast once. Then inspect and re-sandblast, in order to get all old paint or surface off. Notice that the front knuckles have oxidised just setting overnight. In my experience, the powdercoat takes best on a thoroughly clean surface.

And I did get the door popper and remote opener solenoid installed and working on the driver's side door:



Rember the yellow Pantera?



It's in position for installation of "the secret weapon":



I live about 4 miles off the departure end of 22 at Bluegrass Field. There was a terrible crash about a mile off the end, right before sunrise yesterday. Pray for the 49 souls.

David Breeze

A few folks have asked about homebrew powdercoating, so here's my $0.02 worth. It's real easy and a suprisingly forgiving process. You need to follow a few simple proceedures and be aware of a few precautions.

The dust is insidious, it gets everywhere. I transferr powder from the plastic zip bags I recieve it in....into the gun bottles....using a small dipper. Small enough to fit within the mouth of the bottle. Even pouring directly out of the zip bag will raise a dust like you wouldnt believe.

Wear at least some sort of dust mask or respirator whenever handling the dust. Longsleves, gloves, a hat....it depends on your tolerance levels I guess, but you will experience dust.

I shoot my parts outside of my shop, in a very simple booth. Just find a big cardboard box big enough to house your biggest objects. I shot a few parts inside my shop, and spent a week finding red dust. Same goes for the oven. Just don't do it in your house unless you want an immediate divorce. And I only tried it inside my shop once. My oven sets outside where it can vent safely, and is covered with a tarp when not in use.

And the same goes for the sandblasting. It's a very messy process. I do most of my sandblasting outside, away out back. If you have a booth or sandblast box, so much the better, but it still raises a lot of dust.

Enough. The general process is to clean the part by degreasing, and remove old paint & rust, usually by sandblasting. I use either a mineral spirits parts washer or the purple degreaser from NAPA & water rinse. After parts are washed, handle with gloves. Sandblasting is to remove rust & old paint, and it gives a good "tooth" to the surface for the powder to adhere to. Newly welded fresh steel parts may not need sandblasting, but they do need degreasing.



Here you see a control arm, rubber bushing removed and then sandblasted. Heat proof tape is put on anywhere you don't want powder, like inside the bushing area, or the rim where the front joint is to be pressed in. Figure out how to handle the part for suspending in & out of the spray booth, and in & out of the oven. Mostly use the wire S hooks that come with the kit, and use safety wire where needed to help the s hook out.

Once the powder is on the part you don't want to brush it, and when it comes to hanging that part inside a hot oven, you need to have figured out how to move the part.



Welding gloves and a couple of pair of longnose pliers makes moving hot parts a lot easier.

The baisc el cheapo powdercoat gun kit:



You will need to supply compressed air to the gun. Only 10 psi, so make sure you can regulate it down that much, and it must be dry air. My set up goes thru three pressure regulators and a pipe drying manifold before reaching the gun, so I know I have 10psi when I dial it up. If you can see water mist when you blow parts off with your compressed air, it has water in it. You need to have dry air. A final line drier usually comes with the kit.



Here is a sandblasted knuckle hanging a bit too high in the spray booth. I hung it a bit lower on another s hook before shooting it. Notice it has tape inside the bore where the bearing presses. And most of the other holes are plugged with silicone heat resistant plugs, which come with the kit. Once again, these plugs keep powder out of places you don't want it.

The powder likes dry storage. Shooting it amounts to filling the gun bottle about 1/3 full, attaching the grounding wire clip to either the part or I usually try to clip onto the supporting s hook, and stepping on the power pedal for the power unit. Triggering the gun after that results in a poofing cloud of powder. Waving the gun around the part helps, and concentrating on tight corners first seems best. You can stop, reposition the hang of the part, and resume shooting. Just try not to disturb the powder, and remember to trigger the ground pedal. The dust is everywhere, so do wear your PPE. After shooting the part, take the ground clip, touch it to the gun tip to release the static charge, and shut it off.



Now transferr the part to the oven without disturbing the powder. The oven doesn't have to be preheated. Some items can be placed on the oven rack. Anyhow, generally, the powder wants 400 degrees for 20 minutes, after the part reaches 400. I use an infrared temp gun. My throw away oven heats, but the thermostat does not work, and I'd suggest you not kid yourself and trust any oven thermostat. Get an infrared thermometer gun. After 20 minutes, remove the part and hang it elsewhere to cool.

Some parts may need preheating to outgass oils, etc, especially if they are aluminum and aused items, like brake calipers maybe. All this means is precleaning, and putting into the oven and heating up to 500 for a bit. Ideally the bad stuff outgasses, and after it cools, you reclean if needed, shoot powder and bake, the evil stuff won't bubble out and ruin your work. It only happend to me once, but I learned :>



Here's a brake rotor that actually cooling, but I wanted to show you the masking required for it. Most parts require no masking, just shoot them. Others are a pain. Here tape was put on the brake dis itself, and inside the center hole, and plugs were put into the holes for the 5x100 bolt pattern. BTW, this is a Corvette rotor for '88 using Fiero calipers.



Next, masking paper was taped around the previously applied heat tape. The rotor is supported in the booth, groung connected, and paper & tape & plugs mask everything but the metal to be powdercoated. The tricky part is removing the paper after the powder is shot. And this part is laid on the oven rack for heating.

After heating, the part is removed for cooling, and finally the plugs & heat tape are removed:



When you switch colors you have to clean the gun out real well. Mostly this is done with compressed air, but it takes a bit, and it sure raises the dust. You can load your oven up with as many parts as it will hold, but they should all be about the same size or weight. Don't put a knuckle ans several small washers in together. Teh washers would be cooked before the knuckle even came up to temperature.



That ought to be enough to get you going if you've been thinking about doing your own powdercoating. Or maybe this is enough to convince you to use one of the powercoaters on the forum. Have fun.

David Breeze

PermaLinked on BluegrassFieros.Com: DIY Powder Coating by David Breeze

bump ity bump

Still mostly doiing Fiero-type stuff, but I did finally get around to glassing in the headlight door hinge bases. These parts are cut out of the Fiero inner front hood, along with the metal strap inside. The strap is threaded to accept the headlight door hinge mechanism, so it's just a matter of locating where these bases mount, to allow full travel of the headlight door hinge. There is a huge amount of adjustablilty in the mounts and various hinge fasteners, so even if you don't get it just perfect, your still ok.

I have finished degreasing and preping the chassis for a paint job. I'm using a product called Chassis Saver. It's identical to POR-15, just a bit more affordable.

And I've been round & round with the fuel tank and sender. I've finally decided to coat the interior of the fuel tank with the POR-15 product. I've done all of the cleaning and tweaking of the fuel sender that I can. I sure don't like those senders. If this one doesn't work well, it's coming out and I'm installing a capacitance sender, like the ones I've installed in homebuilt airplanes. We will see.



This weekend I layed out the dimensions available on the forum for a front battery box, drilled corner holes and cut out the opening.



I then cut & fit cardboard panels to create the mold of the battery box. This is a great example of how you can quickly fabricate parts with fiberglass. Bear in mind that the cardboard is the mold, and the layup will be done on the other side. Since the cardboard cleared everything like steering arm, swaybar, brake lines, etc.....there will actually be a bit more clearance once the cardboard mold is removed.



Sorry for the glare. Here we are on the side where the layup will be done. Everything is covered with aluminum furnace tape. Then one quick coat of wax, and three thin coats of PVA. Now it's ready for the layup.

At this pooint, Blackrams came over and pointed out that the box was sized for a standard v6 Fiero battery. Since this car is getting a 4.9 v8, it might use a bigger battery. Ok, we resized the opening and retaped the cardboard mold back together, and recoated the worked on area. Now it should accomodate any size battery.



Then we cut panels of 2oz mat to fit the mold. We used panels like this and then overlapping tapes on all corners and edges, wide enough to assure a minimum of 2" overlapp. This box is made of two layers of 2oz matt. After curing and removing the mold, If it seems like it needs more strength, I'll ad one layer of woven fiberglass cloth.

Anyhow, we did the layup by having Blackrams quickly wet out each panel, laying them on a cardboard work surface and wetting them out rapidly with a 2 1/2" brush. Then I'd take each pre wetted panel and place it in the mold. This goes real fast, we were able to use 24 oz of resin and lay it into the mold within the 20 minute gell time of the one resin batch.



After 3 days, we will remove the part and the mold, trim it, and evaluate it's strength.

David Breeze

quote Originally posted by opm2000: Sorry for the glare. Here we are on the side where the layup will be done. Everything is covered with aluminum furnace tape. Then one quick coat of wax, and three thin coats of PVA. Now it's ready for the layup. At this point, Blackrams came over and pointed out that the box was sized for a standard v6 Fiero battery. Since this car is getting a 4.9 v8, it might use a bigger battery. Ok, we resized the opening and retaped the cardboard mold back together, and recoated the worked on area. Now it should accomodate any size battery. Anyhow, we did the layup by having Blackrams quickly wet out each panel, laying them on a cardboard work surface and wetting them out rapidly with a 2 1/2" brush. Then I'd take each pre wetted panel and place it in the mold. This goes real fast, we were able to use 24 oz of resin and lay it into the mold within the 20 minute gell time of the one resin batch. David Breeze

Hey, that was my attempt at special effects.

------------------
Ron
Freedom isn't Free, it's paid for with the blood and dreams of those that have gone before us.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 09-19-2006).]

bump need imput

Dave,

Did you happen to place the Pantera front end on a rest of it Fiero body and snap a couple of pictures?

Brian

Brian,
That would require us to have a Fiero with the front panels off, we don't happen to have one like that now, that might be an option the next time we prep one for for rebody but we don't currently have one at that stage. You need to make another trip down and I'll take you to the shop so you can visualize you tail off.

------------------
Ron
Freedom isn't Free, it's paid for with the blood and dreams of those that have gone before us.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 10-07-2006).]

Sounds good, now I need to find some time!

I just thought Id mention that I have been working at a full production show quality powdercoating shop and though rough, your little writeup on it was pretty close to what we do. One major difference is that we preheat every part to 400* and before it cools, we shoot the corners where the powder tries to avoid. then you coat the rest and after it is cooled back down, it can be frosted with the last layer of powder then heated to 400 again for about 15 to 25, depending on thickness. Our website is www.precisionpowder.net if anybody in the area needs some show quality work done for the lowest price in the area, give John or Steve a call and they can hook you up, tell them Andrew sent you and maybe you can get an even lower price. Thanks, Drew

------------------

1985 GT Fastback
Low Original Miles at 39,006!!!

Otherwise stock for now

[This message has been edited by 1fastcaddy (edited 10-08-2006).]

Thanks for the many kind bumps.

I have been busy putting the Choptop Pantera back together, ever so slowly. Some things really can slow you down...like the stainless auto trans tubing kit from the Fiero Store. It just plain don't fit an '88 chassis. Looks like it would be a glove fit on an '84-'87. So work-arounds take time.

But it really is great when other things fit right the first time. Like the battery box. Most excellent fit, and I've got the new cables fabricated and routed. I've removed and flushed the entire AC system, and am ready to reassemble the entire front end now.

More pics on this stuff later.

I had the sad occasion to take my son to his farewell ceremony, as he is now on the road to Afghanisan. Looks like two months intense preparation and then out of country.

Just before Hunt left we were talking abut putting the LT1 into the Yellow Pantera, and he said it would be awsome. So yesterday I devoted the day towards that project.





David Breeze

Well I can see that youv'e been busy, thats the problem with having more than one project going at a time, it's hard to decide what to work on and sometimes it seems like moving sideways instead of forwards. Keep up the good work!

Joe

bump

All I can say is WOW! Love your write up on the powder coating and fiberglassing your battery box. Hope all is well.

Josh

Josh,
Thanks, yes, all is well. BTW, we need to hook up sometime, maybe the next Bluegrass Fiero meet.



Progress made on the secret weapon. The trunk cutout was fine tuned and amazingly, everything fits with gobs of working space. The tilting rear-clip version of the Pantera uses a strut tower brace, upon which the trunk latch/release is remounted. So I wasn't too concerned about cutting out the forward wall of the trunk, and the structural cross member at the top of that cutout.

Nonetheless, I rebuilt the cross member. A small bit more will be added to what you see here, but this alone is very stout. Final cleanup and painting will be done when the engine/cradle are pulled for the last time.



That strut tower brace is not in place in any of these photos. But Blackrams came over and we reinstalled the rear clip to check clearances.



The strut tower brace clears the LT1 intake by 3/8"+. The rear clip closes and opens just fine. And there is plenty of clearance at the front for easy access to all plumbing, shift cable, throttle cable, wiring, etc. This installation even uses the stock LT! exhaust manifolds, and they clear just fine.

The remaining item to check with the rear clip on was clearance for the Supertrapp exhaust, both when the rear clip is closes, and tilted back.



This is what the size Supertrapps that I have look like, more or less in position. The exhaust opening in the rear clip will have to be elongated a couple of inches more, or we'll use the shorter Supertrapps, or maybe a combination of the two.

BTW, reguarding this type install using the thm325/375/425 trans, everyone allways asks how much of the trunk do you have to cut out.



About this much



The rest of the day was spent routing the various plumbing systems back into the front of the Choptop Pantera. Tranny lines, brake lines, AC lines, radiator, condenser, etc. Hopefully this will allow reassembling the front suspension tomorrow.

More pics tomorrow night.

David Breeze

quote Originally posted by opm2000: The exhaust opening in the rear clip will have to be elongated a couple of inches more, or we'll use the shorter Supertrapps, or maybe a combination of the two. More pics tomorrow night. David Breeze

Hehe. You said, "Elongated." j/k.

Nice choptop build.

bump

Funny how details can slow you down when least expected. The sender in the Choptop Pantera fuel tank looked like toast, and cleaning it up per the many posts on the forum didn't make the ohmeter readings any better. So I planned to use the sender from an '86 4cyl tank. That sender read ok, and the fuel lines turned towards the driver's side to boot. But upon actual assembly many problems arose. The bracket that holds the fuel pump has a different foot (fixed that) and it's a different length ( so the pump and pulsator didn't look very sturdy when installed ) and the final blow : the whole assembly is about 1/2" longer than the v6 sender, so it wouldn't fit into the tank.

I had used the por-15 gas tank clean & slosh kit to clean up the '88 fuel tank, and with it's larger capacity, I really wanted to use it. So I did some major surgery on the fuel sender and found what is shown in the above pic. I've never seen this in sender clean up threads before. I found a major, major location of corrosion in the electrical connection of the float arm and the sender body. To get to it you unbend two metal tabs, and then you have to remove the flared out plastic of the sender body in two places where it attaches to the assembly tree. This allows you to expose the large contact area between the float and the body. Otherwise the area is virtually inaccessable.

It took some major effort to clean the corrosion. Then the only thing left to reassemble the deal is the two metal tabs, but they looked ok.



So the proper sender tree was reused, fitted with a new pump & pulsator that fit very solidly, and the sender had good ohmeter readings. I used two layers of 1/8" cork sheeting to make new anti-squeek pads, and the fuel tank was finally good to go.



After the tank was installed I had flushed out both the AC lines and the heater lines, and they were reinstalled. Next came the auto tranny coolant lines to the front radiator. After wasting three days trying to make the stainless lines from the Fierostore fit, I gave up and purchased some 5/8 stainless steel line from Summitt Racing, and made my own lines. If you have an '84-'87 auto, I think the Fierostore lines would be ok. But for an '88, no way. Anyhow, finally these homemade lines were routed parallel to the driver's side radiator coolant pipe, and they fit just fine.



Next was painting the parts of the calipers which I couldn't powdercoat. Real nice kit with cleaner and paint. It takes several coats of paint, but looks nice when done.



And finally the assembly of the front suspension began. I generally gob on excess amounts of the poly grease, and wipe away the squeeze out after assembly. Never had a squeek. It's handy to have a variety of clamps when pushing poly. If you look closely you'll also see Rodney's 1" lowering balljoints. These were pressed in at NAPA, and I migged four tack welds around the top of each one.



When all is done I'll have to paint the parts that weren't powdercoated. Turns out Rustoleum Red matches the powder I used. How nice.



I again spent way too much time figuring out which way the caliper adapter brackets went. But finally that too was done. I haven't fully assembled the calipers yet, but that is next.



Although I can't say anything good about the tranny lines from the Fierostore, I will say their stainless brake line kit fit like a glove. This was installed, and the front compartment started taking shape. Heater lines, AC lines, brake lines, tranny cooler lines, and engine coolant lines are now in place. I installed pvc grommets where the battery cables go thru the front firewall and ran them into the front bay. So now the spare tire pan and battery tray are ready to go in. Finally



A couple of quick shots this morning, just to see how things were shaping up:







So it looks like a few more evenings this week and I can set the front end back down on the floor. Next up will be the final assembly of the engine & drivetrain. Can't wait

David Breeze

[This message has been edited by opm2000 (edited 11-13-2006).]

Things are moving along. I filled the torque converter with 1 qt of trans fluid and fit it onto the transmission. Then I used the cherry picker to mate the engine & trans. Next I installed the rear trans mount and the "front" engine mount.






Then it was pretty much a matter of attaching to the cradle and adding the front trans mount. After everything was torqued down it looked like this:






I measured for the serpentine belt, and amazingly, NAPA had one in stock this morning. If it fits then installing the various plumbing items and the Ed Park's harness are next.

It feels good to begine reassembly

David Breeze

Bump, just cause, no other reason, just cause.

------------------
Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

this is interesting. out of my reach, but interesting

PerKr,
Maybe not so out of reach. I actually recieved a mold for a Pantera front airdam from a creative fellow in Sweden. I'd be interested in knowing what the real shipping costs would be. It proably would be a painful figure, but you never know untill you ask. If anyone knows of a contact to begin with, I'd look into it.

David Breeze

Time for another bump.

quote Originally posted by opm2000:

This here reminds me of that slant nosed Pinto they made for a couple of days in the 70's.

quote Originally posted by AquaHusky: This here reminds me of that slant nosed Pinto they made for a couple of days in the 70's.

Huh???????

------------------
Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

Time for another bump, we're getting so close and yet it seems like we're never gonna let this tiger out of the cage. Oh well, stand by for more.

------------------
Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Huh???????

heh... It's called the Pangra. Here's a link to a pic of one.
http://www.bob2000.com/pangra.jpg
Hope this clears it up a bit.

quote Originally posted by AquaHusky: heh... It's called the Pangra. Here's a link to a pic of one. http://www.bob2000.com/pangra.jpg Hope this clears it up a bit.

I can see where you were coming from, it was just the comparassion that threw me for a loop.

------------------
Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

I think it's the lights that I see. And, wasn't it Ford that brought "empty" Panteras from Italy and stuffed a V8s in them? If so, that might be why the light lids look so similar.

quote Originally posted by AquaHusky: This here reminds me of that slant nosed Pinto they made for a couple of days in the 70's.

the kit was called the Silohuette I purchased one in 75 for my 302 powered pinto just a basic bolt on new fenders and hood the grill is retained and the signal lights and front bumper and you had to make your own light pop ups

Sillo-wet? I'm sure if I tried to find that I'd get pics of ugly vans. Altho, when I first seen pics of that car, it was called the Pangra or whatever.. Know why? (That's an actual question)

It's time to bump this to a another page, mostly because I helped eat that fish Dave is holding up in the pics on this page and it doesn't look nearly as attractive in that pic as it looked on my plate. Damn, that was good eating!

------------------
Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.