Originally posted by Raydar: How does the heater core get it's coolant flow? Just as important, doesn't something need to serve as a bypass until the thermostat opens? I remember reading some other posts that speculated that blocking these off was what was causing the mysterious "crushed thermostat" problem in other installs. I know there's the largest possibility that I'm jumping the gun here, but no time like the present to ask.
Raydar: Yes, you need to bring a new set of shorts the first time that you take one of these things out. The stock motors just don't seem to cut it when you take a spin in a Fiero that now feels like a pocket rocket.
Craig: On my specific setup, I did infact have a modified Fiero “T-Stat” for the coolant lines to the heater core. At this time, I am using the stock 38oo “T-Stat” elbow, with a line that is tapped into the side of the intake manifold just next to the ECT sensor. I'm not sure how pre 88 Fieros are setup in regards to the coolant lines and heater cores, as I have not worked with the pre 88’s.
Also, I ditched the coolant surge tank in the front of the car for a self bleeding Vette setup, as seen here on the far left side next to the strut tower. I have drilled the thermostat itself to allow for constant flow through the system, so that it’s self bleeding and will not cause issues.
I’d suggest that when you are looking at the way that I set up things in my GT, that you take a grain of salt and make sure that you can get away with what you are trying to get at if you are going to use mine as a reference. Especially with the way that I have the coolant lines and what not set up.
Keep it up, Im sure that there are more than a few that have bookmarkedthis thread!
--Allen
[This message has been edited by mcaanda (edited 07-18-2005).]
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11:36 PM
Jul 18th, 2005
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
What are you guys doing with that big EGR canister thing? Also, theres another cylinder type thing on my motor, (not the MAP, but similar in size) what is that?
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10:23 AM
3.8 SC Member
Posts: 577 From: On the Great Lakes-Ohio Registered: Dec 2003
What are you guys doing with that big EGR canister thing? Also, theres another cylinder type thing on my motor, (not the MAP, but similar in size) what is that?
A pic would help, but if I had to take a guess and if it is on the fuel rail. That would be the fuel ragulator. You will need that. As for the EGR canister thing? - I need a pic to tell you what that is.
------------------ WWW.CLEVELANDFIEROS.COM https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052322.html#lastpost My rear defuser
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03:41 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40932 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
A pic would help, but if I had to take a guess and if it is on the fuel rail. That would be the fuel ragulator. You will need that. As for the EGR canister thing? - I need a pic to tell you what that is.
This is it...
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04:59 PM
3.8 SC Member
Posts: 577 From: On the Great Lakes-Ohio Registered: Dec 2003
Yes, that is part of the emissions system. I believe it is the purge valve for the canister. Here in Ohio, we can get away with not having to have emisssion equipment on our nondaily driven cars. So we remove them. I have see a few 3800 S/C swaps use the Fiero EGR and other emission equipment, to make the swap easier to install.
------------------ WWW.CLEVELANDFIEROS.COM https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052322.html#lastpost My rear defuser
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05:35 PM
crazyfieromike Member
Posts: 581 From: mentor ohio 44060 usa Registered: Mar 2002
Yes, that is part of the emissions system. I believe it is the purge valve for the canister. Here in Ohio, we can get away with not having to have emisssion equipment on our nondaily driven cars. So we remove them. I have see a few 3800 S/C swaps use the Fiero EGR and other emission equipment, to make the swap easier to install.
you gota love those collector plates who needs emissions
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06:00 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Mcaanda... The Pre 88 Fieros has one tube that comes out of the water pump and faces toward the back of the car, it plugs into a line that swoops under the dog bone and into a line in the strut tower that runs along frame. That line follows along to the fire wall...
Here is where it leaves the water pump...
Here is how it ducks under the dog bone and into the metal line that runs along inter frame rail.
This is a shot of what im assuming is the return? it goes from the fire wall back into the thermostat housing... Under the BIG line.
I am almost positive this is how the 88 is set up too since we swapped (way back in the day) my old v6 and 5 speed from my Fiero (85) into Fieromaster88's fiero (was 4 banger auto) And we ran into no problems with heater lines!
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06:05 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Darth Fiero no longer will program OBD II computers. If you are wondering why, you should contact him.. its not really my place. Although it isnt for any bad reason or anything.
For two...
DONT get a 96 PCM, ECU or whatever YOU call an engine computer. It is the BASTARD child of GM and NO ONE can tune it for you!!! Not Loyde, or DarthFiero. Instead there are a couple (2) things you can do... Go with the OBD I set up for your swap, OR go with the 97 OBD II ECU... I am debating on wich way to go. I am going to call a couple yards... maybe i will luck out and they will trade me for what i need?? Maybe... I hope!
For Three...
I have been talking to "3.8 SC" and we are planning on doing our wiring together, as we both have the same swap going. Appearently he has a "jig" for the wiring... this should not only be AWESOME, but also make light work of a pain in the anus!
Will keep the pics comming too!!!
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06:20 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Darth Fiero no longer will program OBD II computers. If you are wondering why, you should contact him.. its not really my place. Although it isnt for any bad reason or anything.
For two...
DONT get a 96 PCM, ECU or whatever YOU call an engine computer. It is the BASTARD child of GM and NO ONE can tune it for you!!! Not Loyde, or DarthFiero. Instead there are a couple (2) things you can do... Go with the OBD I set up for your swap, OR go with the 97 OBD II ECU... I am debating on wich way to go. I am going to call a couple yards... maybe i will luck out and they will trade me for what i need?? Maybe... I hope!
For Three...
I have been talking to "3.8 SC" and we are planning on doing our wiring together, as we both have the same swap going. Appearently he has a "jig" for the wiring... this should not only be AWESOME, but also make light work of a pain in the anus!
Will keep the pics comming too!!!
1. Is Loyde still repomming? He seems to do a great job. (he did mine) 2. I didn't know there was something between OBD 1 and II 3. I'm doing the wirign right now, its not as hard. Lots of following wires & double checking, but not hard at all...
Joe
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07:05 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Yes Lloyde is still programing... I also think Darth is still doing OBD I only.
There is a big difference from what i understand between the way OBD I and II work, however i dont know if either has more of a performance advantage above another... That may be debatable.
Are you wiring it to all be hidden or are you wiring it normal? Getting rid of your emissions or leaving them? Any progress pics of YOUR swap?
In the center pic above, is that a custom dog bone bracket? Also a note on reprogramming. Yes OBDII ECMs are hard to reprogram, but if you are using the OBDII ECM that trols the 3800SC, what is the concern?. The ECM is already programmed for boosted operation. Now If one wants total flexibility for a heavily modified 3800SC then an aftermarket laptop programmable ECM such as the Accel may be the bill. I believe that they are about $900 though.
Less the sensor wires coming from it, there are only two wires going to the ECM from this thing. MIL control. What the hell is that? And Evap Canister. I took a look at my evap canister, and theres no electronics on it... do I need to keep any of this?
[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 07-18-2005).]
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10:04 PM
3.8 SC Member
Posts: 577 From: On the Great Lakes-Ohio Registered: Dec 2003
Less the sensor wires coming from it, there are only two wires going to the ECM from this thing. MIL control. What the hell is that? And Evap Canister. I took a look at my evap canister, and theres no electronics on it... do I need to keep any of this?
MIL control, yes. It stands for "malifunction indicator light". In other words, it is your "sevice engine soon" light. As for Evap control, That depends, are you the Fiero's canister or the donor car's canister?
Sorry, if you see me on this a lot. I think this thread is very interesting
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10:44 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Yeah, thanks, I just found out what it is. Why would it run from the ECM to a sensor, shouldn't it run from the ECM to the connection block for the donor vehicle? In other words, what should I be doing with this?
Hey, I am still a little confused about the heater hose arrangement. I too want to get rid of the large bracket for the alt. and maybe move the alt. down. I noticed you plugged up the hose ports. What exactly did you use for your heater core? I like Riven's setup too! Where can I get a backet like either of these. Thanks for the great thread.
Brandon
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11:52 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
master, 13.2 1/4's belt slipage?not that I noticed. I just shaved atad off the engine block side a t Dennis, The one in my pic is the stock gtp one.I just shaved a tad off the engine block side and ta da!
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11:57 PM
Jul 19th, 2005
LoW_KeY Member
Posts: 8081 From: Hastings, MI Registered: Oct 2001
you'll notice a bunch of belt slipping at a 3.25 and under pulley, some might not but many have on clubgp. I did later on, I smoked the belt woohoo! Still should get the 3 1/2" tensioner pulley to cover yourself it'll give a better wrap on the blower belt
well since everyone else is doing it.. oh yeah Craig if you're fast enough keys are in the car just swap your motor with mine. I won't notice but be warned I do clean it every 2-3 days
[This message has been edited by LoW_KeY (edited 07-19-2005).]
Ok--enough clouding up his build Thread with pictures. Revin is better(but slower) being he did all his work, I had Lyode do my wirining so mine is only 95% done by me.
Well since I can not afford the fuel rails, I had to get creative. I used a tubing bender and just bent them back over the top. ( I couldn't stand looking like Mustangbeware's ) That is the cheap / simple way.... and you can tell that I did not do it very well (scarey without a backup rail system)
What I should have done was like Skitime and robecky (sp?) did which was to rebraze new tubes on the rails for a even more impressive way of getting the fuel to the rails. I think you need a fuel line fix kit from napa. then just solder away !!!
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01:48 PM
3.8 SC Member
Posts: 577 From: On the Great Lakes-Ohio Registered: Dec 2003
Thats how I built the fuel line on Rborecky Fiero! Yes, I used the fuel line kit from NAPA. Here is another pic of the fuel line, after it was sand blasted and painted.
------------------ WWW.CLEVELANDFIEROS.COM https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052322.html#lastpost My rear defuser
Originally posted by RandomTask: Mcaanda, where did you get these two tensioners from?
#1 is a GTP tensioner #2 is a custom alum. mount, that is actually going to be no longer required as soon as I get the PS unit in there to act like a tensioner.
It should be up FS here in ~2/3 weeks dependent on the ammount of time that I have to get things ready for the PS.
i have seen rick borecky's and don zeyer's fule line set-up and yes it really is a very good job. i was there when the bench tested it. i have already bent my fuel rail very much like yours but what im curious about is the connection at the rail and the hoses. do you have male screwed fittings at the fiero lines? i may end up doing just what they did.
are they the same as these ones? if so, how the hell do you get those things off? I know the bolt is reverse thread, but I can't figure out how to dismount the assembly. Thanks!
[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 07-20-2005).]
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05:54 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Random task... i think that the tensioners are the stock ones but re-positioned? Im not sure, the one on the right is HOWEVER it is mounted on a 1998 GTP pulley bracket wich you will NEED to use because the other one (stock one) sticks out to far.
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07:13 PM
Jul 22nd, 2005
87FieroGT Member
Posts: 491 From: Harlingen, TX, U.S.A. Registered: May 99
this thread! 
are you making another one?? 
