RandomTask, What year is your Fiero and what year is the engine?
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:
So I'm towards the very very end of my wiring and I have one last question. I have the fuel pump relay (+) (not the through positive, but the green w/ white stripe) running off of E3 on the C500 (Ignition) I also am running the MAF (+) off of E3 and the ignition coil (+) off of E3. Is this how you guys did it and is this OK? If it is ok, could I put the 02 sensor (+) feed onto E3 as well? What about the (+) feed for the ECM that goes into the BLUE connector #19? It just seems like a lot to be running off of that one wire.
So it would be: MAF + Fuel Pump Relay + Ignition Power + Ignition on B#19 + 02 +
Well here it is, how I tackled my pulley situation.
I was going to run AC but at this point I just want to get the thing running. I'll get the AC running next year when I install the IC too
I'll post up all my wiring as soon as I get the car started. I don't want to pass along what I did and have it turn out to be bad...
I opted to go with something similiar to one of the aforementioned routing. For the pulley lower left (south west) of the SC I couldn't find a GTP dog bone bracket so I went ahead and made a bracket with some angle iron. Also note, I plugged both heater hose line holes with freeze plugs. The one closer to the camera that comes off of the water pump is a 1" and the one further away in the intake is 7/8". I also used a little jb weld on them to make sure I wouldn't run into any problems of them coming out.
I then modified the AC bracket to make it work for the alternator. I used a through bolt on the bottom section of the alt to hold it in rather than threading the aluminum bracket.
Key thing in making brackets is alignment. An unproperly aligned pulley will make the belt squeal and eventually cause it to fail.
[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 08-13-2005).]
IP: Logged
02:59 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
I went through everything to make sure I wasn't forgetting anything I couldn't do with the motor installed. This is the only pic of me in it so far too!
This is the amount of fully extended clearance (uncompressed) I have on my tensioner. I should also note I used the grooved pulley that was on the original park avenue coil pack bracket. I didn't however use that bracket, rather a GTP bracket. (The Park Ave's would have run right into the decklid support.
Another Clearance shot between the decklid and the SC
As far as belt lengths, I'm going to order some custom gator backs. I measured the lengths by taking a piece of weed wacker string and imitating my belt routes. I also had my brother compress the tensioners fully. I then marked where the string comleted the loop, pulled it straight, then measured. I'm going to add a half an inch to the actual belts to so that the tensioners aren't always fully compressed. I got a measured 61" for the accesory belt and 65.5" for the SC routing. Add the .5" to each for my order.
You can go to any autozone/advance auto to order a good year gatorback belt. Here is how their sizing works:
Functional Part Number Gives You The Size Of The Belt
quote
4 06 049 5
1st digit (4) represents a K section Poly V-belt.
2nd and 3rd digit gives the number of ribs.
4th, 5th, and 6th digit are the length in inches.
7th digit is tenth of an inch.
Part number 4060495 would be a K section Poly-V belt, six ribs wide, with a length of 49 and 5/10 inches.
AWESOME... I have sooooo many pics to post... Myself and Crazy Mike pulled the cradle and mounted it to the tranny, we are about to head out to get stuff to build an exhaust from. She is going along pretty good. I will get pics and part numbers soon as i can, we even have junk yard mischief pics too... haha!
IP: Logged
05:05 PM
3.8 SC Member
Posts: 577 From: On the Great Lakes-Ohio Registered: Dec 2003
So I'm towards the very very end of my wiring and I have one last question. I have the fuel pump relay (+) (not the through positive, but the green w/ white stripe) running off of E3 on the C500 (Ignition) I also am running the MAF (+) off of E3 and the ignition coil (+) off of E3. Is this how you guys did it and is this OK? If it is ok, could I put the 02 sensor (+) feed onto E3 as well? What about the (+) feed for the ECM that goes into the BLUE connector #19? It just seems like a lot to be running off of that one wire.
So it would be: MAF + Fuel Pump Relay + Ignition Power + Ignition on B#19 + 02 +
I'm running OBD II
Thanks!
Joe
From reading this quote, it looks like you are trying to power everything from E-3. Thats not a good idea.
First of all, the dark green wire with white strip goes to connector 2 - pin 3 of the computer. The PCM energizes the coil in the relay. The orange wire from the fuse box is the fuel pump, power and that fuse needs to be changed to 15 Amps.
The coil, power is ran from the same pink, power wire that ran the 2.5 engine. I believe this E3 and was a fusiable link, coming from C500. The coil should be on it's own power source. The Fiero's pink wire is connected to the coil pack's pink wire - connection P.
The MAF and the O2 is connected together and I used one of the fuel injector fuses to run these, the fuse beening 15 Amps. The Fieros that I have worked with, were V-6's and they used two 5 Amp fuses for the injectors. Now since your car is a 4 cylinder, the fuse placement is still in the fuse box, you just might have to run a wire from the fuse box, to these sensors.
One more thing, there are grounds and then there are sensor grounds. Make sure that the sensor grounds go to the PCM sensor gounds and not to ground itself.
Let me know if this helped out any, Don Z.
One more thing, remember to change the fuse for the injectors, to 10 Amps.
From reading this quote, it looks like you are trying to power everything from E-3. Thats not a good idea.
First of all, the dark green wire with white strip goes to connector 2 - pin 3 of the computer. The PCM energizes the coil in the relay. The orange wire from the fuse box is the fuel pump, power and that fuse needs to be changed to 15 Amps.
The coil, power is ran from the same pink, power wire that ran the 2.5 engine. I believe this E3 and was a fusiable link, coming from C500. The coil should be on it's own power source. The Fiero's pink wire is connected to the coil pack's pink wire - connection P.
The MAF and the O2 is connected together and I used one of the fuel injector fuses to run these, the fuse beening 15 Amps. The Fieros that I have worked with, were V-6's and they used two 5 Amp fuses for the injectors. Now since your car is a 4 cylinder, the fuse placement is still in the fuse box, you just might have to run a wire from the fuse box, to these sensors.
One more thing, there are grounds and then there are sensor grounds. Make sure that the sensor grounds go to the PCM sensor gounds and not to ground itself.
Let me know if this helped out any, Don Z.
One more thing, remember to change the fuse for the injectors, to 10 Amps.
Thanks Don! I'm gonna go through and change all the conflicting setups I had to your advice!
IP: Logged
08:02 PM
Aug 14th, 2005
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Ok now to drown you in pictures of our escapades to get the engine out and trips to the junk yard...
First off... SOME how I lost some of the pics off my camera of when Don came over to play last weekend... ARG, sorry Don... My camera batteries were going dead and i guess they didnt save? But anyway here is what i do have.
Before Mikee and i pulled the engine we decided to go to the junk yard to get the mount we needed. Don sent us looking for a Pontiac Transport van because this is the one he used for his swap (i believe). It is nice cause it wraps around the engine. It will go BETWEEN the block and the AC bracket if you have one.
Here is what the one Don grabbed looked like when it was pulled...
However he had to modify the mount by cutting off that dog bone bracket looking part at the bottom to make it look like this...
We looked for a transport but the only ones we could find were sitting in the dirt and really TOUGH to get to. If you DONT get the mount pulled FOR YOU, you pretty much need the engine OUT of the car to get to it. Or on a real nice lift. This is because you have to get the AC bracket off AND there are some bolts squeezed in between the trans and block that arent easy to get to either. That is just a fore-warning.
Anyway... poping through the yard we came across a couple Fieros...
Here is an 88 Coupe, didnt look bad outside but the inside was trashed.
Then there was this 84 Coupe, i will refrain from saying anything about WHO drove this car BUT i seen him driving it around a few times and felt sorry for the car... *Cough Cough*, note the wheels, *Cough Cough*
Then we came upon what we were looking for... the van... The mount was in a 1992 Olds mini van. It is NOT the same mount that Don sent us for. It doesnt have that dog bone lookin part that he cut off on it. However, interestingly, it looks IDENTICAL to what Don's modified mount looks like! SCORE!! I dont have a pic of the mount OUT yet... i thought i did, so when i pull it to drill new holes ill take pics. BUT I suggest looking for this mount because then you dont have to modify it.
When we came upon the van it had nothing holding the engine into the car except the dog bone mount and various hoses and the wiring harness. Someone had taken the frame parts where the control arms bolt too. I figured we could just have the nose picked up and the engine would fall out if we cut some lines. No cutters though, and the guy with the loader had to go elsewhere... So basically he decided to pick up the nose and bounce the van till the engine fell out... WICKED!!
Here is the engine dangling from the van by a spider web of hoses and wiring...
Then he set the van down on the engine and pushed it back to tear the stuff free...
With a final push of the engine to the side here is what we were left with... woohoo easy access.
Out of pic room... more to come asap...
IP: Logged
09:35 AM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Here is some aftermath of the forks sliding into the van engine compartment while pushing it off the engine...
Like i said... engine out is the easiest way to get to the AC bolts that you have to pull to get the bracket out...
Then you have to pull the 2 bolts from between the trans and block... pretty tight squeeze, better grab a wrench!
Now back to the house to pull the engine out... With the front up on ramps and the back supported by jack stands all the stuff to drop the cradle can be disconnected... Hoses, Heater Lines, Fuel Lines, Engine Harness (just feed it through hole in passenger cabin, Wiring on passenger side of engine bay, clutch slave, front and rear cradle bolts, strut tower bolts, double check to make sure you didnt miss anything.
We lowered the 2.8 down onto a furnature dolly that we got from Tractor Supply Co. for 10$. With a couple pieces of wood it JUST clears the cherry picker legs...
With the engine down we disconnected the fuel lines and heater lines... We just waited till now (less cramped to work with like this), but you can do it before as stated above.
With everything disconnected you can connect your chain to the Fiero and lift it up... NOTE that this is probably NOT super safe so i cant TELL you to do it like this... i dont want to get sued if someone gets hurt doing it like this. If your sue happy... go have a SHOP do your swap.
We (note, we, NOT "you should do") Connected the chain to some hardened steel punches and 1/2" hardened extensions and put them in the holes for strut towers and lifted it like that. Done that quite a few times and it works good for ME every time!
Fiero UP!
Keep goin up and up watching for things... My engine harness got caught just about in this pic on the heat sheild and bent the crap outta it.... OOOOPSIE!
ARG... ok... it SAYS you can have 8 pics.... BUT i try to do 8 and it says I have too many... then i delete some and try to repost and i hit FLOOD CONTROL... Arg... oh well... more pics and stuff ASAP.
[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 08-14-2005).]
IP: Logged
09:59 AM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Here is the car almost high enough to get the engine out... the ramps help allot so that you dont have to lift the back up at such a SUPER steep angle. I should also NOTE that the Cherry Picker is set on ONE TON setting, although this MAY not be enough we needed to be able to get high enough. The higher the TON setting the less height you can reach. I DONT suggest overloading your cherry picker, this can kill you. Dont be dumb like us.... or you will die.... not really but, again, this is for the sue happy.
Here is where the furnature dollies make life wonderful! Pullin out that engine...
We didnt let the car dangle any more then we had to... NEITHER SHOULD ANYONE... So we dropped it back down on the jack stands. They are positioned right where the "MEAT" is at the front cradle mount area.
Out with the old boat anchor...
Here is the anchor parked for good by the stairs. Only about 4,000 miles on the NEW 2.8 sitting their! But the starter bolt holes that were drilled (engine was RWD from Cramaro) wont let me get a starter to work right.
Mikee is playing camera man since he whacked off the tip of his finger at work... He likes to make smart arse comments and since my phone kept losing signal, i rounded that bolt i was working on, and i smashed my damn finger i decided to give him a naughty gesture when he made the comment... lol. funny now that i think about it. Blurred naughty gesture for PG13 rating.
Lowering the 3800 down into place...
The 3800 bolted to the trans...
The adventure continues... but im at pic limit as usual.
IP: Logged
10:29 AM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Here is another shot of the engine on the cradle...
Well now that we had the motor and trans all bolted together we decided to figure out the exhuast. Basically, as youve seen a few times in here before, im going with the exhuast that is just like what LiL Devil used. However im not using a CAT right now although i may if its TOO Loud. Mikee and i decided a trip to Summit Racing was needed to see what kind of exhuast pieces we could locate! When your lucky like me and live an hour or less from Summit the road trip is fun-fun and easy!
We then jacked my BMW and my woman and took off to Summit... Mikee always the camera man decided you all need a head shot of me drivin...
My G/F and baby Hannah ridin in the back
WooHoo... our destination, Summit Racing.
Here is what we picked up, 3 J bends at 17$ and a flex piece which was about 36$
Now i have to get back to the engine mounting situation. So i grabbed the level and my piece of steel channel that i got from Home Depot for making my alternator mount... I placed the level on the supercharger pulley because it is the only really flat surface and only part i know is level for sure. The T-body curves down a bit and the flat spots on charger have little lips from powder coating. I used the channel to level up the cradle mounts since i know they have to be level!!
Don told me that i should use a mount from a 70's dodge truck because it is the right size and it has the saftey catch so if you TEAR the mount the engine wont fall out, lol. BUT... When i got my engine leveled to cradle (bubble in same spot on cradle as it is on engine) i found a problem. I dont know if the mount bracket Don got is the same (it looks just like it) or if im crazy but i have EXACTLY 3" from the bottom of the mount bracked to the top of the Fiero cradle mount location... Ironically enough... this is the EXACT thickness of the stock Fiero mount *scratches head*
I measured out 3" and found something that would work to hold engine up so i could check some stuff out (extension and 2 washers) Here you can SEE the distance that needs to be made up for engine to sit Level WITH the cradle.
At limit again... more soon
IP: Logged
10:55 AM
PFF
System Bot
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Here is a MUCH better view of the distance between the engine mount and the cradle mount with everything leveled together...
What i am thinking in my head right now is this... The Fiero mount sucks, its really flexy and provides allot of movement that i DONT like.
Option ONE - What i could do is cut the cradle mount off, and turn it up-side down then weld it back on so that it aligns right. I am kinda concerened because if i do this i would use the dodge truck mount wich is about 2" thick or so, maybe a little thinner. It has only 1 bolt that goes in each mount though, rather then two like the fiero. I dont know if this will drop the support and engine will rock more? I COULD however use TWO of those mounts side by side (Just now thought of that). That MAY just solve my problem. I will have to see if its feasable!!!
Option TWO - Use the stock Fiero mount and redrill holes in engine mount, however, only one hole lines up with engine mount when it is installed. Maybe engine is crooked? I doubt it though! So if its not i would have to weld some channel onto the engine mount to meet the other Fiero stock mount bolt OR cut the cradle bracket off and move it over.
I may go with option ONE if its feasable and when i turn the mount up-side down it still has full contact with cradle at height i need it to reach.
Any input??
Anyone have pics of the crank pulley on the 3800 and where it lines up with the cradle at... then i can have an idea to be positive that its on there straight!!
IP: Logged
11:17 AM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
I went ahead and purchased mounts . This took out all the guess work and made it a lot easier for me. I'll snag you some pics in an hour or so when my camera is done charging...
IP: Logged
12:27 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Sorry master, my camera isn't working right now, let my keep fiddling with it,
On another note, I FIRED MY CAR UP AT 5:56 TONIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! All my wiring was exact on! I turned the key, the fuel pump kicked on and I saw fuel go through my filter, I cranked it, she cranked a little slow (I had a 625amp batter on it) but about 3 cranks she fired right up! I'm soooo excited right now!!! She idled great and had superb throttle respone. I'm gonna post my wiring up tonightl promise. I still have to add a little bit of lengths to some of the wires to get them routed where I want but AHHHHH...!!! (Does happy dance) Oh and I must mention, this motor sounds mean!! Not the typical V-6 sound I'm used to.
IP: Logged
06:31 PM
FastFieros Member
Posts: 2698 From: Dallas Texas USA Registered: Nov 2000
Sorry master, my camera isn't working right now, let my keep fiddling with it,
On another note, I FIRED MY CAR UP AT 5:56 TONIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! All my wiring was exact on! I turned the key, the fuel pump kicked on and I saw fuel go through my filter, I cranked it, she cranked a little slow (I had a 625amp batter on it) but about 3 cranks she fired right up! I'm soooo excited right now!!! She idled great and had superb throttle respone. I'm gonna post my wiring up tonightl promise. I still have to add a little bit of lengths to some of the wires to get them routed where I want but AHHHHH...!!! (Does happy dance) Oh and I must mention, this motor sounds mean!! Not the typical V-6 sound I'm used to.
You must be Joe... I see the same happiness in your posting I heard on the phone.
Glad to help you any way I can, and good luck on the finish up to get it driving.
Random Task... thats SO awesome man.. im happy for you!!! Hope i wont be far behind... where are the damn 3800 Installed pics at... Get that cam fixed asap... i wanna see that puppy!! You drive it yet??
ACE35... Right now i am just over 1500$ including engine. I will update the parts list on the first page and make a total too... Not too bad though all considering.
IP: Logged
07:39 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Yeah that would be a blast... i sure hope so. Like you said in IM its been for EVER since our Fieros went to a show together... El Paso was the last show i think...
IP: Logged
09:23 PM
FieroMaster88 Member
Posts: 7680 From: Mattawan, MI Registered: Nov 2000
Yeah that would be a blast... i sure hope so. Like you said in IM its been for EVER since our Fieros went to a show together... El Paso was the last show i think...
I wont hold my breath.
IP: Logged
09:28 PM
PFF
System Bot
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Awe man where is the love... It took how long to get the engine, and i got ALLOT done in a weekend.
This week i have to...
Get ahold of the ANUS's i bought the flywheel from - not here yet Contact GM Parts Direct - still havent shipped oil filter locator Mount the engine - cut bracket, flip it, weld it in place Mount Alternator Make exhaust - still waiting for manifold and flange from Ed (non swivel manifold)
IP: Logged
09:32 PM
FieroMaster88 Member
Posts: 7680 From: Mattawan, MI Registered: Nov 2000
Awe man where is the love... It took how long to get the engine, and i got ALLOT done in a weekend.
This week i have to...
Get ahold of the ANUS's i bought the flywheel from - not here yet Contact GM Parts Direct - still havent shipped oil filter locator Mount the engine - cut bracket, flip it, weld it in place Mount Alternator Make exhaust - still waiting for manifold and flange from Ed (non swivel manifold)
Go GO Go! Maybe I'll visit next weekend with the 4.9 Fiero.
IP: Logged
09:33 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
You better... Mikee wants to know if you still have the plastic intake part for your 4.9L... he doesnt have it. No intake tube part or nothin. Just the Throttle Body.
Speaking of Mikee.... Here is a picture of him in my back yard looking for chickens...
LoL... for those of you that watch Ed, Edd, and Eddy... Mikee is JUST like Ed... and kinda looks like him too..
IP: Logged
09:40 PM
FieroMaster88 Member
Posts: 7680 From: Mattawan, MI Registered: Nov 2000
You better... Mikee wants to know if you still have the plastic intake part for your 4.9L... he doesnt have it. No intake tube part or nothin. Just the Throttle Body.
Speaking of Mikee.... Here is a picture of him in my back yard looking for chickens...
LoL... for those of you that watch Ed, Edd, and Eddy... Mikee is JUST like Ed... and kinda looks like him too..
Yes I do. I'll bring it with if I visit.
IP: Logged
09:41 PM
Aug 15th, 2005
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
What I'm working with: 1986 Fiero SE 4 Cylinder w/ Manual, Donor Vehicle '98 Park Avenue with a Series II and OBD II, NO A/C, NO Cruise Control, EGR Deleted, Boost Bypass Solenoid Deleted
First we need to clarify the different connectors.
C203 and C205 Can be found listed here at Fiero Addiction . *NOTE* C203 is actually described off of the interior side of the connector, not the side you will be pulling out. This is a critical difference in the 4 cylinders as the the 4 cylinder harness does not connect into both injector feeds.
I also purchased a schematic from Loyde at Fast Fieros. I can't compliment him enough for all hes done! Yes Loyde, that was me who called you! Thanks a million! I would STRONGLY suggest you purchase the schematic for your donor vehicle from him as well. It was worth every penny to me and then some.
Ok, so back to the wiring. The OBD II harness has two connectors, one blue, the other clear. For now on we will call the blue one C1 and the Clear C2. How I started is first hook EVERYTHING you will NEED up to the respective sensors. From there, take all the wrapping and tape off of the harness. There is also a brown rectangular block with about 70 connectors going into it (mostly pink wires) This connector ties into the firewall and delivers most of those connectors to the fuse block. You will be pulling wires out of that later in this process.
After I had hooked up all the sensors I was going to use, I took apart the C1 and C2 connectors. First, get a magic marker and write "C1" and "C2" on the respective connectors. Next you take the grey plastic backing off both of them. On the part that slides into the ECM (the blue plastic piece and the clear plastic piece), if you look at the sides of these you will notice some tabs. Push these in with a small flathead screwdriver then pull slide the cover off. There are two tabs per each of the four (two clear, two blue) connectors. Make sure you push them both in (not necessarily at the same time) Do not try to pry/yank on the cover as it will most likely break. Store these covers in a safe place where you will not lose them. You will now notice that the connectors are colorless which is why you wrote C1 and C2 on the sides (eliminates confusion on re-assembly)
Next thing to do is to start pulling out the wires. How to do this: If you look at each female pin you will notice a plastic piece to the outside of it. These basically 'snap' against the lip on the female connector, thus holding it in. Take your screwdriver and very gently pull back that plastic piece while pulling the wire out. By out, I mean, pull on the wire end of it. If all goes to plan, you're wire should slide right out. Do this for all of them and eventually you will be left with an empty C1 and C2.
Now you just fish out the wires to the connectors you are going to use. Do NOT Disconnect the Crank and Cam Position sensors from the parent sensor plug. This will make your life a living hell and is excess work that isn't necessary. There will be some wires that go into groups (either grey or blacks) Grey's are common 5V reference, and blacks are common grounds. You can also go ahead and pull the wires going into the large, brown, rectangular block out. They take a little tug, but they do come out by pulling.
After doing all of this you should be left with the wires that you are going to use. Below listed are the connectors with their wires and where they go into. Again, this is for my application and yours may be different...
MAF (Mass Air Flow)
Pink- You will connect with either 'J' or 'K' of the C203 Connector Black/white stripe- This is a ground and ties into a common ground. This common ground also ties into C1(#'s 16, 56, & 57) This ground is also grounded to the motor. Yellow - Signal , goes to C1 #69
TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)
Black- Ground - Goes to C1 #61 Grey- 5 Volt Reference A, goes to C2 #33 Dark Blue- Goes to C2 #66
IAC (Idle Air Controller)
Light Blue w/ Black Stripe- IAC Coil A Low, goes to C2 #44 Light Blue w/ White Stripe- IAC Coil A High, goes to C2 #7 Light Green w/ Black stripe- IAC Coil B Low , goes to C2 #49 Light Green w/ White stripe- IAC Coil B High, goes to C1 #38
Oil Pressure Sensor
Grey- 5 Volt Reference A, Ties into C2 #33 Black- Sensor ground, goes to C2 #35 Tan w/ white stripe- Goes to C2 #53
Orange with black stripe- Map Sensor Ground C1 #13 Grey- 5 Volt Reference A Ties into C2 #33 Light Green- Goes to C2 #25
Ignition
I'll make a note that I did not disconnect either the crank position sensor or the cam position sensor as this would just cause more work. White-A- Ignition Control, goes to C1 #54 Tan with Black stripe-B- Bypass, goes to C1 #53 Light Blue with Black stripe-C- 18x Ref, goes to C1 #9 Purple with white stripe-D- 3x Ref, goes to C1 #8 White, E, (Not Used) Black-F- CMP Input, goes to C1 #7 Yellow-G-Goes to Crank Position sensor, leave this alone Light Blue w/ white stripe-H- goes to crank position sensor, leave alone Brown with white stripe-J- goes to cam position sensor, leave alone Black with White stripe- K- ground to engine Red with black stripe-L-Leave alone Black with white stripe-M- Leave alone White with black stripe-N- Leave alone Pink-P-Goes to E3 of the Fiero's C500
02 Sensor
Pink- Goes into either "J" or "K" of the Fiero's C203 connector. The one opposite of what the MAF sensor is plugged into (don't have the MAF and O2 sensor plugged into the same one) Black with white stripe- Ground on engine/chassis Tan-Low, goes to C1 #29 Purple- input, goes toC2 #10
Injectors
All the injectors have both a pink (power) wire and a signal wire (different colors) you tie each bank of the power wires into either "J" or "K" on the C203 connector (doesn't matter which) Also note, you will change the fuse in the fuse box from a 5 Amp fuse to a 10 Amp fuse. The signal wires are as follows Injector 1- Black C1 #79 Injector 2- Light Green w/ black stripe C1 #73 Injector 3- Pink w/ black stripe C2 #42 Injector 4- Light blue w/ black stripe C1 #46 Injector 5- Black with w/ white stripe C1 #47 Injector 6- Yellow w/ black stripe C1 #43
Ok, sorry guys, I need a break... I'll finish posting the rest tommorow...sorry...
Joe
[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 08-16-2005).]
IP: Logged
12:42 AM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Awesome so far man... Too bad im going with OBD I or it may be more of a help to me... HOWEVER, Since Don is going OBD II this may help him allot when we wire his car...
IP: Logged
07:43 PM
Aug 16th, 2005
ohio86se Member
Posts: 1308 From: akron, ohio, summit Registered: Mar 2002
The Fieromaster i got a flexplate from a 1997 3800sc you can have. i got it just for the purpose of balancing the flywheel. i can give to don z. or rick b. next week and they can get to you.
------------------
" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"
IP: Logged
12:50 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Thanks for the offer, but my 3800 actually came WITH a flexplate so i lucked out... However if you have a Flywheel from a Camaro i deffinetly can use one of those.... HaHa...
IP: Logged
03:39 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
First i say that i never have made an exhuast before this is my first attempt. Second i will say this will probablty be loud BUT not cackly or obnoxious toned.
First we gotta make the Y pipe, i used J bends which i picked up from Summit in a previous post. Here is a mock up of how it will look when im done... per-say. The red line is the CENTER LINE which is important below...
With that said you have to take the side of the J you want to turn into the Y point and scribe a line down the CENTER of the tube as shown above and here...
I am sorry that i dont have any pictures of cutting OR of what the 1/2s look like afterwards... Mikee dropped the ball on that one. I think we got so excited that we finally got the pipes cut that we forgot about the camera. For referance, we did this with a SAWZALL... We dont have access to cool toys, so the cuts werent perfectly straight... lol.
Here is a couple shots of tacking the Y...
Here is a good shot of the tacked Y, you can imagine how it looked as 2 pieces in this shot if you had trouble imagining it.
Now its time to weld the Y. Since im am MAG welding (NO its NOT MIG welding because im using Carbon dioxide gas which is an active gas. This makes it MAG - Metal Active Gas) the Y i am gonna use nice HOT tack welding. Just hold it for a second to get a good puddle with nice wash and fill, then let off... move a BIT down while puddle is still hot and do it again. Keeping the puddle hot/molten makes a cleaner looking weld. However doing this you can blow through easy if you get TOO much heat in there. Here is a series of pics of me welding the Y together.
CRAPOLA Im at my pic limit... More pics of welding to come.. (some GOOD shots TOO) just hold tite
IP: Logged
06:21 PM
PFF
System Bot
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
I didnt want to ruin the end product by posting the pics of it in the last post since i only had 1 picture left.
Anyway, during fit up we didnt get many pics because, well, you'll see if you make your own. It is brain wracking trying to get everything even and lined up just right. The exhaust manifold outlet ISNT centered so everything must be shorter on one side so the tail pipes exit correct and one side of the cradle is different from the other. Since one has a notch cut out and one doesnt AND the space constraints are INSANE! Its pretty DAMN tough to fit a 4" canistered pack in such a small area. Like parking a 747 in a 2 car garage.
So what is the best way to make sure everything is even? We measured from the control arm mounting location back and from the cradle mount tops down. We even double checked by measuring from floor to cradle top and then from floor to muffler to make sure it was even (my cradle is crooked, not enough boards under it, so we had to subract the difference between the 2 - about an inch) Well since i dont have any fit up pics i can tell you just about how it went... First we cut, cut, cut, cut and re-cut the "downpipe" section over and over so that it aimed JUST where we needed it to... Which puts the Y about 1" from the cradle "U" about where the old muffler was (but lower). Then we tacked the Y to the downpipe. Next we did some figuring on how to posiotion the mufflers. Since the output is NOT centered we had to cut more off of one muffler then the other. One side is joined at the Y RIGHT where the old weld was on the muffler chamber! The other side has some distance made up with mufflers pipe and a little more of the Y pipe. I should NOTE... We mounted them as BEST as we could. I may be wrong, doubt it, but there is like NO ROOM (from what i measured) back there for much of anything. The mufflers had to get mounted LOW just to clear any impending obsticals, they are about even with the bottom of the "U" all the way across!!
We left some muffler pipe hanging far off the end (one is a little longer then other) so that we could more properly line up the tips when its installed in the car!
Also.. BIG MUST NOTE... My back manifold is different from others. It is the "ball flex" style one. There is supposed to be a ball style flex at the mounting flange on the manifold... i cut that off, its near imposible to find a matching ball flex since im dumb and didnt get any STOCK downpipe from the Riv. to use. The GTP's and others may use a different flange so exhaust may look ALLOT different.
Well here it is all tacked together...
I thought Mikee got more pictures of the exhuast all tacked on but I guess not... Oh well I will have plenty when i get the flange i need still and mount so that i can make some hangers.
Well here are some pics of welding together the exhuast...
More to come.. at pic limit
IP: Logged
07:50 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Here is a good shot of how the Y to Muffler weld came out... Rough cut... sawzall sucks! lol!
Now seeing that we have NO IDEA how this thing would sound we were joking around about cutting off Mikee's truck exhaust and putting it on as a test... Well I decided to be funny and just put it ON mikes truck... lol... well... lets just say were disturbed!
oh no not the SATURN.... haha...
Well thats all for now... Today i picked up the 3" x .1875 x 12" Piece of angle iron that will make my engine mount bracket (for cradle).
IP: Logged
07:58 PM
Aug 18th, 2005
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
I think this is a question more directed towards Mcaanda. Where are you guys getting your long spark plug wires to relocate the the coil where the battery was?
The exhaust looks great! Can't wait to hear how it sounds. I like the welds too. I am going to have to get some pointers from you. My welding is O.K. But it could be better. How close are you to start rewiring it?
Don Z.
------------------ WWW.CLEVELANDFIEROS.COM https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052322.html#lastpost My rear defuser It will be painted at the end of summer!
IP: Logged
07:41 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
DarthFiero sent me my PCM chip and Connectors for the PCM on Tuesday i believe (maybe Weds) SO they should be here at latest id assume by tommorow!?!? So... when ever your ready man. I should have engine mounted ASAP!
Also... love to teach ya to weld. I only learned to weld at the worlds largest Welding Co. haha. There really is allot more then "pull the trigger and go" to welding. There are different metal transfer modes and techniques too.
ALSO I talked to LiL Devil who said my exhaust WILL be loud! Especially at WOT... but he said and i quote "But it will be fast!" He also told me if i wanted it QUITE i should have gotten the "Turbo Packs" which are here... http://www.fle-online.com/InformationPages/infoturbopacks.htm OOps... To late now! LoL! Well just have to see how it sounds.
Today i fabricated an engine mount with Mikee... Will have tons of pics, and of coarse, Mikee's famous "Action Shots" tommorow for you all!!
[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 08-18-2005).]
IP: Logged
08:32 PM
Aug 19th, 2005
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
As i said above i started my engine mount. I could have gone a bunch of different ways, and if i did it over again i would! Just easier to buy a bracket from Purple Reign or something. I just figured since the mount point for the Boat Anchor and for the 3800SC were different i would try the 3800's location. Maybe it will cure some of the mount damage ive heard of... Also the bolt holes for the Boat Anchor's stock mount are the SAME as the 3800's Top and Bottom. That means i can use Fiero poly mount on the 3800 Bracket if need be. Which Don Z assures me there will be. LoL!
Anyway, here is a few pics of my 1992 Olds Van mount. I did NOT need to modify it or anything.
So i got all anxious and cut the stock Fiero engine mount bracket off the cradle.. That pretty much STUCK me with doing something like this. I pondered and pondered about what to do so we decided to go flying by the seats of our pants.. WooHoo... Naw we actually mocked up the locations that we would need and made a template... Come join us on our fun trip through the motor mount making land.
We made our template out of card board cause its easy to cut and it was readily availible...
First i cut out a piece that was the same lenght as the piece of 12" x 3" x 3" x .1875" Angle i bought... So basically 12" long piece, who uses a SAWZALL on cardboard anyway?
Then i mounted the bracket to the engine and the Boat Anchor mount to that. We leveled the engine then stuck our template up in there against cradle and the mount bolts (level engine first). This gave me my bolt locations in the template. Then we drilled the holes (yeah drilled) in the cardboard...
. This took out all the guess work and made it a lot easier for me. I'll snag you some pics in an hour or so when my camera is done charging...
She idled great and had superb throttle respone. I'm gonna post my wiring up tonightl promise. I still have to add a little bit of lengths to some of the wires to get them routed where I want but AHHHHH...!!! (Does happy dance) Oh and I must mention, this motor sounds mean!! Not the typical V-6 sound I'm used to.
Get that cam fixed asap... i wanna see that puppy!! You drive it yet??
