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The one and only Step-By-Step 3800 Series II SC Swap by The Fieromaster
Started on: 07-15-2005 11:50 AM
Replies: 521
Last post by: darkhorizon on 01-14-2009 01:32 AM
The Fieromaster
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Report this Post09-07-2005 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
Yeah thats what i wanted too... guess my description wasnt all too clear.. hehe.

I want to pick up some 4" tube and try to run it to the stock location. Maybe at LEAST 3.5".

I dont know but i doubt that the Civic one is large enough. I was just going to weld something together like i did for my exhaust. I had a guy that was willing to take a look at making a custom intake for the SC Fiero application. He makes one for the GTP as it is and is located NEAR my house but i think he wanted like 200$ for the GTP one. Although i think his included a custom S.S. scoop piece to pic up the cold air from under the GTP bumper.


...WOOO HOOOO PAGE 7!!!!........

[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 09-07-2005).]

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Rickker
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Report this Post09-07-2005 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RickkerSend a Private Message to RickkerDirect Link to This Post
Here are a couple of pics of the 4" cold air intake that I came up with on my swap.

This system has worked well for a couple of years.

...Rickker

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post09-07-2005 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
Looks like stock hose and some "dryer ducting" to me.... Hey works for me, i even got some of the aluminum stiff dryer duct! Hehe!
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Report this Post09-07-2005 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RickkerSend a Private Message to RickkerDirect Link to This Post
It is indeed very similar to dryer ducting hose, except it has a heavier gage wire and an industrial rubberized material for the casing. The nice thing, is that it matches the 4" bore on the K&N, as well as the molded rubber tube that came with the 3800SC, which in my case was from a '99 Buick Regal. My objective was to get the air intake out of the hot engine compartment. And, like you, I wanted a 4" system to minimize inlet losses. This engine pulled 270 RWHP @ 5200 on the dyno last year, using this intake system.
....Rickker
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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post09-07-2005 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
Hmmm.. i think i know EXACTLY what your talking about. I used to work for a dust collection business and we designed systems for companies. One of the "owners projects" was designing a Mulch Blower for landscaping. A company sent us a bunch of different flexable tubings and one that looked JUST like what your saying and have pictured i remember... Lets see here...

Remember when going for something like this you want it to NOT crush under vacuum, dirty filter causes higher vac before TB specially with boosted engines!!!

I found a few different types on McMaster Carr's web site...

One is flame retardent and can handle up to 28" of mercury (vacuum)
• Use with air, paint and weld fumes, smoke, lint, and grinding dust
• Temperature Range: -40° to +250° F
• Flexibility: Flexible
• Abrasion Resistance: Good
• Compresses 35% of extended length
• Color: Black
• Material Meets: UL 94HB
Also known as TPE (thermoplastic elastomer), the blend of PVC/polypropylene and rubber gives this hose its flame-retardant qualities. Hose has an enclosed spring steel wire support. Material thickness is 0.022". Use a worm-drive clamp (see pages 212-215 ) to attach hose. Can be used outdoors.

This one handles 25" of Merc

General Purpose Blended Polypropylene/Rubber Duct Hose

Black
Withstands higher temperatures than PVC. Material is also known as Santoprene or TPR (thermoplastic rubber). Hose has an enclosed copper-coated steel wire support. Material thickness is 0.030", except for 1 1/4", 1 1/2", and 1 3/4" ID hose, which have a thickness of 0.026".

There are a couple others on there too but those are the best. If anyone wants part numbers i can give you them... All the 4" duct seems to be priced AROUND the same... 4-6$ per foot some/most have 5 foot minimums.

Do you have any more pics of your intake Rickker??

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Report this Post09-07-2005 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Grim001Send a Private Message to Grim001Direct Link to This Post
Rickker, on a side note, did you doing any mods to get the coil over to sit flush on the stock spring perch of your strut?
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Report this Post09-08-2005 09:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Well now that mounts have arrived, we've started the work on the other 3800sc project. Here is a teaser pic..

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 09-08-2005).]

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Report this Post09-08-2005 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ken_86gtSend a Private Message to Ken_86gtDirect Link to This Post
ZZP sells a 4" intake tubing that is $10.50/ft. It maybe the same as what you found in the McMaster catalog. But this is shown to work well with the GTPs.

http://www.zzperformance.com/products1.php?id=319

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Report this Post09-08-2005 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RboreckyClick Here to visit Rborecky's HomePageSend a Private Message to RboreckyDirect Link to This Post
Jncomutt, where are the fuel rails from and how much?? They are nice and look like they get the job done well. Rick B

------------------
President of Cleveland Fieros
www.clevelandfieros.com

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Report this Post09-08-2005 02:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RickkerSend a Private Message to RickkerDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Grim001:

Rickker, on a side note, did you doing any mods to get the coil over to sit flush on the stock spring perch of your strut?

Does it snow in Canada? Yes, there was a lot of grinding needed. Frankly, it was a PITA. When I purchased the coilovers from WCF, I did not realize that so much rework would be needed on the (brand new) KYB strut. However, now that it is behind me, I am pretty happy with the setup.

...Rickker

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Report this Post09-08-2005 02:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RickkerSend a Private Message to RickkerDirect Link to This Post

Rickker

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quote
Originally posted by The Fieromaster:


Do you have any more pics of your intake Rickker??

I think so. I will check tonight on my home computer.
....Rickker

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Report this Post09-08-2005 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
The fuel rails came from ZZP. They are kind of hard to come by as they never have them in stock. Just keep an eye out and sooner or later they'll have some around..
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Report this Post09-08-2005 05:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:

Well now that mounts have arrived, we've started the work on the other 3800sc project. Here is a teaser pic..

Might have issues with the decklid hinge hitting your MAF, might have to relocate it down you intake and extend the wire.

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Report this Post09-08-2005 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post

MstangsBware

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quote
Originally posted by Rborecky:

Jncomutt, where are the fuel rails from and how much?? They are nice and look like they get the job done well. Rick B

As JM said those are ZZP fuel logs and sell like hot cakes to the Grand Prix guys. They look good but are not cheap, they run around $ 379.00.

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post09-08-2005 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Ken_86gt:

ZZP sells a 4" intake tubing that is $10.50/ft. It maybe the same as what you found in the McMaster catalog. But this is shown to work well with the GTPs.

http://www.zzperformance.com/products1.php?id=319

Yeah thats the same stuff exactly.... wow 5$ a foot mark up isnt bad way to get free money!!!

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Report this Post09-09-2005 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post
Fieromaster, do you have the PN's for your mufflers?
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Report this Post09-09-2005 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
Yeah i do... would you like the "Turbo Packs" or the "Glass Packs" because i have a sinking horrible feeling that my exhaust will drown out the space shuttle launch!!! It is totally open... From what i was told when i talked to "LiL-Devil" he suggested i use the turbo packs cause they are quieter but still flow awesome.

ALL Part Numbers Are From "Full Line Exhaust"

Here is what the turbo pack looks like...

My mufflers are 12" long and you can SEE how tight a squeeze it is in there.. Problem is they dont make a Turbo Pack that short unless you want 2" pipe...

Here is the product list for turbo packs...

Here is the list for the Glass Packs (what i used) in 2.5" pipe size (what i used)
I have - pn# JONA4512S on my car...

Are you going to need a cat converter?? If so you could go with something like THIS....

I can give you the PN for that cat too...

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Report this Post09-11-2005 12:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Hey, this was on Page 3....

Here's a friendly picture bump..

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post09-11-2005 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
Hmmm.. i dont have it on my page 3

Just so ya know you can take that oil filler cap extension off if you want to. Just un twist it like the cap and take cap off extension then just put cap in the valve cover... goes right in!

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Report this Post09-11-2005 11:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Anyone else using Intense Racing's oil filter relocation kit?? It didn't come with any sort of instructions, and there is this little rubberized washer thingy that we don't know what to do with. We're still waiting to hear back from intense and wondered if anyone here knew...
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Report this Post09-11-2005 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post

Jncomutt

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Well, we got the answer. Turns out its a seal for the outside of the oil pressure set screw, "whodda thunk it?"

If you look under the capture nut for the oil pressure adjuster screw, you can see the thin 'washer':

Edit, before someone mentions, the plugs in the IN/OUT are just there to fill the void until we get this thing in the car and can fab up the braided lines..

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 09-11-2005).]

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Report this Post09-11-2005 03:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Just wanted to add some insight regarding the mounts we purchased. The transmounts and engine mount came from Tony, very good price and fast shipping.


As you can see, this tranny mount fits perfectly and required no modification:

This is the opposite mount. As you can see the pointed corner hole didn't line up. It needed to be 'shimmed' out some, as well as made to fit. Due to the fact that the hole is on a 'point' we weren't comfortable modifying this section. I don't know why the mount is made pointed. It looks as though it could be square and still get the get the job done. Although it was made this way, so hopefully there is a good explanation. To fix the problem, we used the carbide bit with a dremel and simply slotted the holes on the other edge of the bracket, so this pointed one without much 'meat' could fit correctly.

And here it is made to fit:


Now for the front Engine mount. This mount required two holes to be modified. If you look at the first picture, you can see they both needed to be elongated left/right. Rather than modify both of them to fit that 'slide', we just ovaled out the single hole on the left. This placed both holes in line with the holes in the block. Now we had the top two bolts to fit. The lower right bolt still required a lot of upward cutting. Again, the dremel fixed this in about 2 minutes and wasn't even something to sweat about. Just wanted to make it known that the mounts took a little massaging to fit.

And for now, here is the mount from WCF for the shifter assembly. Apparently they WILL make the 'correct' bracket to make up for the holes being on different planes, but we ordered the one for what trans we had, and it was still not right. Rather than send it back for the correct one, and deal with waiting again, and the hassles of shipping,etc., we had no problem just shimming this to fit as well..

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 09-11-2005).]

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post09-11-2005 06:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
Mutt... you may have stated this already but what is that Trans and Engine from again??
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Jncomutt
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Report this Post09-11-2005 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Both came from a 2003 bonneville with approx 1800 miles, and carfax to back it up, lol.

It should all be original..

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post09-11-2005 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
1800 Miles...."DAMN you Scuba Steve!!!!!!!!!"

Thats not fair...

Well i have my alternator mounted and correctly spaced out, i will be using the old stock alternator bracketry to make the new stuff... Should turn out pretty sweet.

Will try to get some pics tommorow... i am missing my other cam mem stick which sucks. Damn gremlins

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Report this Post09-12-2005 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Hey man.... Tryin to keep ya motivated here.. Any updates on the wiring or pictures of your final belt routing, etc???

Here's another in progress build pic to keep the thread going..

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 09-12-2005).]

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Report this Post09-12-2005 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crazyfieromikeSend a Private Message to crazyfieromikeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by The Fieromaster:

1800 Miles...."DAMN you Scuba Steve!!!!!!!!!"

Thats not fair...

Well i have my alternator mounted and correctly spaced out, i will be using the old stock alternator bracketry to make the new stuff... Should turn out pretty sweet.

Will try to get some pics tommorow... i am missing my other cam mem stick which sucks. Damn gremlins

you cat stole it gota love those physco cats

oh and thats my line there buddy

[This message has been edited by crazyfieromike (edited 09-12-2005).]

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Report this Post09-12-2005 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:

Hey man.... Tryin to keep ya motivated here.. Any updates on the wiring or pictures of your final belt routing, etc???

Here's another in progress build pic to keep the thread going..

You are going to have to change out the SC tensioner with one from a GTP, the steel version. The one you have will hit the firewall under heavy acceleration and cause false KR. There is a guy selling one on Club Go now for like $20.00 or so.

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Report this Post09-12-2005 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Yep, we figured as much. We have a cut down version on the OBD1 car that is going in the 84, while we weren't sure on this one, predicted we MAY have to swap over to the other one. Everything is still in test fit/mock stage, but its good that we have others on here helping us along that KNOW for sure what will and will not work.

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post09-12-2005 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
Well first of i sat for some time trying to figure out the best way to mount the alternator... I already had the top bolt figured out, and the spacing too (15 10mm washers) so it was now that i had to figure out how to tie in the other mount on alternator (in front) and the back bolt too (for support)

I decided that for the front i would chop up the stock alternator brackets... They are as they would be stock on the alternator...

Taking the angle off and the bar leaves you with this...

Now the best i can i will try to explain how i did this.

NOTE--- DO NOT cut anything before reading WHOLE post.. hehe, not that you would anyways but im telling you ABOUT where to cut stuff... you will have to cut it for yourself so that you get the proper location on your 'Nator

Below is a pic of how i cut everything up to make the parts i needed. There is allot going on in the pic so i will explain it out, sorry i have no in process shots but Mikee the action shot guy is not around cause gas is Thirty Billion Dollars a drop.. hehe!!

First off i took the large tube bracket and cut off ALL the other brackets on it, the sylonoid bracket and the U shaped steel piece near "CUT A". Normally the side near "CUT A" bolts to the blower, NOT anymore!!
Circled in GREEN and labeled as PART A is the new BOTTOM BRACKET. This will bolt to the hole in the bottom of the alternator (in back) and be welded to the super thick engine mount.
I then made the rest of the cuts on that tube (CUT B and C) to leave me with PART B. This will become the rear mount. However, after making the cuts you will not have any good way to bolt it to the alternator SOOOO... You take the other bracket piece and cut it at CUT D to make PART C.

Well the Lower Mount (PART A) is already done so lets forget that for now and move onto the REAR mount... It now will begin to read like assembly instructions for some back yard play set...
After cutting Part B out, which you need to do at CUT B and C (c - because there is a nut welded in the end of tube) you will then take PART C and make a cut at CUT D. Cut the angle OFF of PART C leaving behind just round stock with a flattened end with hole. NOW basically PART C just slides in the end of PART B.... make sure you put it in the end of PART B near where you made CUT C.

This will get welded in place but NOT YET because you need to make sure it all lines up right before tacking together.

If you have the alternator properly spaced, I checked and RE-checked the belt travel and alignment. Should be perfect.....ish.

I basically have the top bolt in the block and through the long "wing" of the alternator. I then rotated it up so that it was close to the manifold heat sheild but DIDNT touch it. Also not so low that the belt hits anything (like itself at the water pump pulley which is close squeeze).

Then all you do is measure from center of bottom bolt hole to the engine mount to get length for PART A... now you know where to cut it at CUT A.

To get the length for PART B just measure from bolt hole in back of the alternator to the mount and subtract about an inch or so so that you have some room for PART C to stick out (flat spot with hole is there for a reason).

At this point with you would have everything cut to length... I bolted on PART A and then pushed it against engine mount to make sure it fit right and i had good angle on alternator (not to close to sheild and not to low for belt path). Then if all is well just TACK weld it GOOD into place. Remove alternator CAREFULLY and weld PART A to the mount.

I then put the alternator BACK ON and bolted it all down snug and checked fit and belt again...

Now you can figure out PART B... I bolted PART C to the alternator then slid PART B over top of it and lined it up where i wanted it on the engine mount... Did some looking around and clearence checks (dont want to block off ANY access to your engine mount bolts or it will never come off) LOL! Now just tack weld PART C to PART B. Remove the tacked assembly and weld it GOOD and SOLID! I then put the assembly BACK on the alternator, checked alignment onto the engine mount and tacked it to the mount NICE and STURDY....
Remove the alternator once again and weld the piss outta that tube to the engine mount...

TA-DA thats it... hard core solid mounting.

Here are some pics and short descriptions of the setup...

Here i am testing the position of the bottom mount... The bend goes towards the FRONT and so does the SHORT end of the tube where bolt goes...

Here is the bottom mount welded into place...


MORE TO COME SOON... Just wait for the post!!

I dont have any pics of the back mount as a seperate PART B and PART C but here you can get the idea of how its fitted together... here i am lining up the location on the engine mount...

Here is a BAD SHOT but it shows about how you have to watch where you put back mount... there be bolts to dodge hehe!!

[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 09-12-2005).]

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post09-12-2005 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post

The Fieromaster

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Here are BOTH mounts welded in place... they LOOK ugly now, but i have some more grinding and some painting to do before they are PRETTY hehehe!

Here are some pics of the alternator mounted in all snug... and i MEAN snug... i can stand AND bounce and she aint goin no where!!

(yeah i know this is before back was welded but you get the idea)

AND THE GRAND FINALLE.... The new completed belt rougting!!

[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 09-12-2005).]

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Report this Post09-12-2005 11:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GonsaiPKSend a Private Message to GonsaiPKDirect Link to This Post
Some really creative and helpful stuff going on in this thread. A + for you!
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Report this Post09-12-2005 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Direct Link to This Post
Wow Craig! That alternator setup is really awesome. I need to visit and check this stuff out in person. Cant wait until you get it running.
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Report this Post09-12-2005 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
Sweet!! I was waiting for you to post that, The OBD2 car seen above has AC and loyde's low mount alt, however the 84 OBD1 car is no AC, and so I've come up with something similar. I'll post pics some pics of that setup later on too...
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crazyfieromike
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Report this Post09-13-2005 04:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for crazyfieromikeSend a Private Message to crazyfieromikeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMaster88:

Wow Craig! That alternator setup is really awesome. I need to visit and check this stuff out in person. Cant wait until you get it running.

yes you do or well have to beat you lol

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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post09-13-2005 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for all the positive feedback...

Also i should note that ALL the bracket attachement holes on that side are SLOTTED, so in order to keep the mounting location repeatable (doesnt move if bracket is moved) i am welding washers OVER the slots so that they are basically no longer slotted holes. Ill do this with the bolt tighened down (all bolts tight) so i wont get any warpage on washer or so anything wont move on me...

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RandomTask
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Report this Post09-14-2005 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post
Some teaser videos for you guys!

And sorry for the hoses/lines throughout, I'm cleaning all of those up!

Throttle Response:
http://media.putfile.com/MOV0280297
Walk around:
http://media.putfile.com/MOV0280389

And heres that bolt I sheared in half off the trans mount

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 09-14-2005).]

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Kohburn
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Report this Post09-14-2005 03:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

Some teaser videos for you guys!

And sorry for the hoses/lines throughout, I'm cleaning all of those up!

Throttle Response:
http://media.putfile.com/MOV0280297
Walk around:
http://media.putfile.com/MOV0280389

And heres that bolt I sheared in half off the trans mount

I broke that trans moutn on my 5speed 3.4 pushrod.. did you have a dogbone or a 4th engine mount rigged up?

edit to add: wow that thing has a lope to it

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 09-14-2005).]

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RandomTask
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Report this Post09-14-2005 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskDirect Link to This Post
Nope, lesson learned. Fabbing up something for the dogbone this afternoon :/
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The Fieromaster
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Report this Post09-14-2005 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The FieromasterSend a Private Message to The FieromasterDirect Link to This Post
HOLY HELL!!!! I just got a "semi" hahaha.

What in gods name do you have in that beast for a cam!?!? That is friggin AWESOME!!

MOVE VIDS NOW OR ELSE

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