In 1986 Pontiac built this car for the PPG Pace Car demonstration fleet, the prototype for a series of 2000 replicas offered through Pontiac dealers. It is powered by a high performance turbocharged 2.7-liter four-cylinder engine delivering a breathtaking 232 horsepower and driving through a high performance 4-speed manual transmission. More importantly, it was part of the panoply and pageantry of the 1986 CART PPG Indy Car Series witnessed by millions of spectator and television viewers. Original show and demonstration vehicles from the Big Three are rarely publicly available and are avidly sought by collectors. Fieros, being even more rare and unusual, are virtually nonexistent. The distinct provenance and history of this ex-PPG Pace Car Fleet Fiero make it.

http://www.prewarcar.com/pr...0Sale,%20October%204

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 09-29-2008).]

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-...135&iSaleSectionNo=2

Sale 16135 - Vintage New England, A Sale of Important Motorcars and Automobilia, 4 Oct 2008
The Larz Anderson Auto Museum, Brookline, MA

Click here for General Information.

Click here for Conditions of Sale.



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Copyright © 2002-2008 Bonhams 1793 Ltd.,
Images and Text All Rights Reserved
Lot No: 515•

In the Museum's collection since 1989, donated to the Museum by General Motors
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT Pace Car Prototype
Chassis no. 1G2AF37R6EP220268
Introduced in 1984, the Pontiac Fiero was a dramatic departure from conventional American design, and in fact from conventional design anywhere.

A mid-engined four-cylinder, wedge bodied two-seater, Fiero relied heavily upon high strength, resilient polymer body panels over a steel space frame. Polymer systems used including RRIM (reinforced reaction injection molding) and SMC (sheet molding compound). Additional innovations included flush-mounted exterior glass. The elaborate space frame replicated racing car rollover structures in series produced stampings and robot welded structures.

The dramatic wedge design of the Fiero recorded a wind tunnel drag coefficient of just 0.377cd, ideal for high speed performance with modest engine power and commendably suited to pacing high speed oval course races like the 1984 Indianapolis 500.

Fiero was a dramatic experiment by GM with highly speculative manufacturing techniques and materials in the midst of a performance-challenged era.

Over the next two years Pontiac added more and more value to Fiero, introducing the GT in 1985 with multi-port fuel injected V6 power and design cues developed from the 1984 Indianapolis 500 Pace Car Fieros.

In 1986 Pontiac built this car for the PPG Pace Car demonstration fleet, the prototype for a series of 2000 replicas offered through Pontiac dealers. It is powered by a high performance turbocharged 2.7-liter four-cylinder engine delivering a breathtaking 232 horsepower and driving through a high performance 4-speed manual transmission. More importantly, it was part of the panoply and pageantry of the 1986 CART PPG Indy Car Series witnessed by millions of spectator and television viewers.

The body is presented in show car livery appropriate to its PPG paint sponsorship in pearl white over bronze. A moon roof illuminates the otherwise stock interior. There are a number of modifications to adapt this Fiero to its high speed on-track activities including an on board fire suppression system, safety switches to shut off the engine and fuel in the event of a rollover, competition belts, rear deck lid aerodynamic spoiler and track-standard safety lighting.

It was donated to the Museum of Science and Industry by General Motors in 1989 and the approximately 5,200 miles on the odometer are believed to be its demonstration and parade mileage from new. It is in exceptionally original, clean and sharp condition, needing only detailing after a year on tour with the PPG Pace Car Team and twenty years in the Museum of Science and Industry to be brought back nearly to show quality. Its history and provenance are rock solid.

Original show and demonstration vehicles from the Big Three are rarely publicly available and are avidly sought by collectors. Fieros, being even more rare and unusual, are virtually nonexistent. The distinct provenance and history of this ex-PPG Pace Car Fleet Fiero make it.

Without reserve

Estimate: $15,000 - 25,000

Place Bid or Track Lot


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Tel: +1 (415) 503 3447




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Email: Eric Minoff
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Tel: +1 (415) 503 3447


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Lot Notice
Although this 1986 Pontiac Fiero GT has a GM VIN, it was donated to the Museum of Science and Industry by General Motors "As Is", solely for research and exhibition purposes, and not for registration or on-road use. It was accepted by the Museum of Science and Industry subject to a GM Receipt of Donation for Vehicle, donation number 0240 89 dated April 19, 1989, specifying such conditions. Any subsequent purchasers accept the vehicle subject to the specific limiting terms of that Receipt of Donation for Vehicle, a copy of which will be provided upon request to prospective bidders.

That sucks. I was just at the Science and Industry this past winter and they still had it in the Auto section....Sad day to see it go from the museum. So with no reserve what is the min bid?

I've never heard of this car being turbocharged. It says it's a 2.7L engine which implies it's a Super Duty engine. The Indy pace car made 232hp and was not turbocharged. So is that a typo?

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My sites
http://the-stickman.tripod.com

http://www.youtube.com/TheStickman

There are a lot of typo's. Another thing is they claim it's a 1986 but the VIN says it is a 1984 SE. The sign that hung behind the car in the museum had a lot of inaccurate info on it. Many tried to get the sign corrected, But they never did.

If I recall this chassis was one of the SD4 pace car's so it would not have a turbo. A group went to view it "behind the glass" when it was in the museum, But they wouldn't open anything (doors, decklid, hood, etc.).

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 09-29-2008).]

My wife would kill me if I bought this..... Hmmmm its easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission!

BTW the turbo part is a typo, click on the bohams link and look at the engine pic.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 09-29-2008).]

I am not sure and Ron or Fred can confirm or deny this.

I thought this was the thrd Indy Pace car rebodied.

It still had the red and grey interior if I recalled from what was reported?.

We know one pace car is at Indy and one is at GM but the third was missing, Someone figured out this one was the missing third car.

There was one Turbo but it is at Indy and was discovered by Ron a few years ago. It was never used for any race and was just a prototype.

I am working form a bad memory here so if anyone can recall any of this this may be a good car to get ahold of.

I thought I'd seen this car before. June 1985 Car and Driver had an article about the Pontiac Motorsports IMSA GTU racer and their Super Duty Widebody





Granted the one for sale appears to be based on an Indy Pace car, looking at the wheels and the interior. The one in Car and Driver has the Suade/Shhepskin seats and Centerline wheels. The panit jobs looks identical. Anyone have any idea as to what the colors are? (other than "three shades of brown")

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Bob
84 SE IMSA Widebody
87 GT 5spd
05 Vibe

[This message has been edited by What about Bob (edited 09-30-2008).]

Hmmmmm.........

Fred

that article is from june 1985 but it is from car and driver .i have it open in front of me right now .it had a 2677 cc super duty rated at 180 hp and 170 lbft tq. 0-60 6.3 sec and 14.7 @ 93 mph 1/4 mile .

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: Hmmmmm......... Fred

was wondering if you'd see this...

Did the factory actually convert an indy to the PPG car? Sure looks like Indy interior to me. Wouldnt that make it an 84? Need more details. And what about the part about it being donated and it can't be driven? Registered? Did I read that right? If I can't drive it and show it off, I wouldnt want it.

This is pace car #3 form Indy. I am sure of it,

This is a 1984 car as per the Vin.

Also the car has a vin so I can see there is a way to register it. So driving is a possiblility unless they present some legal documents that prevent it.

The real question is do you keep the PPG body panels on the car or do youy get the easy to find Pace Car panels and restore the car to original form.

Seldom do people get to own a on track used Indy Pace car.

The key here is all the hard to find parts are on the car and it is only missing the easy to find body panels.

This is a rare change to own not just FIero history but Indy history.

If they would advertise it for what it really was many non FIero people would take interest and make this the hightest priced FIero.

I wasn't insinuating that the PPG car was the Pontiac Motorsports car in the Car and Driver article, just that it had the same DGP Stage 3 wide body kit and paint job. The PPG car sure looks like it started out as a Pace Car.
I believe this is from the DGP catalog. It looks like the Pontiac Motorsports car .

[This message has been edited by What about Bob (edited 09-30-2008).]

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: Also the car has a vin so I can see there is a way to register it. So driving is a possiblility unless they present some legal documents that prevent it.

From the Bonham's website (with errors):

Lot Notice
Although this 1986 Pontiac Fiero GT has a GM VIN, it was donated to the Museum of Science and Industry by General Motors "As Is", solely for research and exhibition purposes, and not for registration or on-road use. It was accepted by the Museum of Science and Industry subject to a GM Receipt of Donation for Vehicle, donation number 0240 89 dated April 19, 1989, specifying such conditions. Any subsequent purchasers accept the vehicle subject to the specific limiting terms of that Receipt of Donation for Vehicle, a copy of which will be provided upon request to prospective bidders.

quote Originally posted by What about Bob: Granted the one for sale appears to be based on an Indy Pace car, looking at the wheels and the interior. The one in Car and Driver has the Suade/Shhepskin seats and Centerline wheels. The panit jobs looks identical. Anyone have any idea as to what the colors are? (other than "three shades of brown")

FYI ~ The wheels used on the original pace cars and on the car and driver car are the same centerlines. It's just that on the pace cars there was a cover (hub cap) placed over the wheels to give it the smooth aerodynamic look.

That car was built by Bob Birchmier of Diversified Glass products and John Callies group for PPG. Bob swore it wasn't the pace car but he may not been aware of it. I have him on tape stating this.

I am going to call John Callies today and ask him if he remembers. I will let you know what he says if I get thru to him. Rick B

quote Originally posted by WingNut - MD: From the Bonham's website (with errors): Lot Notice Although this 1986 Pontiac Fiero GT has a GM VIN, it was donated to the Museum of Science and Industry by General Motors "As Is", solely for research and exhibition purposes, and not for registration or on-road use. It was accepted by the Museum of Science and Industry subject to a GM Receipt of Donation for Vehicle, donation number 0240 89 dated April 19, 1989, specifying such conditions. Any subsequent purchasers accept the vehicle subject to the specific limiting terms of that Receipt of Donation for Vehicle, a copy of which will be provided upon request to prospective bidders.

Well now, that sure deflates my ballon. Why buy it if you can't put it on the road. Legally that is.

Ron

heres my question if i was to buy that car would i beable to register it ( not that i would drive it alot ) ?

Since it has a VIN (and I assume a title) Why does the prospective owner have to follow the terms of the donation?

It was donated to the museum under the terms. Unless the donation receipt specifically states that subsequent purchasers are limited to the same terms, Then the new owner can not be held to it. (unless the winner has to sign a form stating they will follow the terms.)

If there is no title, you may be able to file a lost title with the receipt and get a clean title then register it.
If anything you should be able to register it as a special purpose vehicle for "exhibition" uses.

I know some of GM's prototype vehicles did not have a standard VIN and therefore could not be registered, This particular car does have a legitimate VIN.
Does anyone know if the other two original pace cars have VIN's??

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 09-30-2008).]

if you"read" it says---- Lot Notice
Although this 1986 Pontiac Fiero GT has a GM VIN, it was donated to the Museum of Science and Industry by General Motors "As Is", solely for research and exhibition purposes, and not for registration or on-road use. It was accepted by the Museum of Science and Industry subject to a GM Receipt of Donation for Vehicle, donation number 0240 89 dated April 19, 1989, specifying such conditions. Any subsequent purchasers accept the vehicle subject to the specific limiting terms of that Receipt of Donation for Vehicle, a copy of which will be provided upon request to prospective bidders.


i know it would be a good buy and i was thinkin about bidding on this but if i can't put it on the road what the hell is the use i'm not going to own a trailer queen i want to drive it

coughboneyardvinandtitlecough

Speaking as someone who has worked with GM about it's donation policy, I can tell you that the car can not be sold without the new owner agreeing to the same terms as the seller did when the recieved the car. I was involved witha case similar to this and GM was more then willing to go and reposess the car. The normal donation contract that GM has almost would lead one to believe that they still held ownership to some degree. It would at least amount to a enternal lein against the car.

I would guess that GM has no insterest in this car at all as the normal donation agreement says that GM is the only party that can sell the donated car. But then again it dose leave loop holes that would allow for the sale if they agreed to it. In the one case I mentioned GM did not want the car back but refused to allow the car to be sold. GM said that if the car was no longer wanted by the people it was donated to then they would take the car and crush it.

I would like to be able to bid but funds are way to limited. I would be more then willing to agree to the terms of the contract to be able to own something like this. What about some formally organized group bidding on it. The Michigan Fiero Club is a legally reconized group. Why couldn't they buy it and own and display it as a club property? I don't think any of us woulde want to lose such an important part of Fiero history.

What about it - Fred - Ron -someone - anyone? I'll make you a deal. You buy it and I will be it's loving caretaker. You'll never have to think about it again. Any takers???

lmao-------yeah but your spending lets say min of 15 g's on a car you can't drive away in(so to speak) man thats alot of $$$$

i still might bid on it hopefully work picks up in this crappy economy of ours THANX BUSH!!!!!!!!!!

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It was still on display in August at the museum, glad I got to see it before
it goes away to someone's storage.

Here is a picture from Bob Birchmeir's personal collection of this car when they finished it and delivered it to PPG Rick B

[This message has been edited by SuperchargedV6 (edited 09-30-2008).]

I find it hard to believe that they could prevent you from registering this car in your home state so it could be driven. Here they don't even track actual mileage on cars this old, let alone run the VIN against some prototype list. If the bill of sale has some sort of prohibition on it, then make your own. Bottom line, on cars this old, the DMV doesn't really seem to care, at least in my county.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: This is pace car #3 form Indy. I am sure of it, This is a 1984 car as per the Vin.

The real Track Pace Cars do not have vins on them. Rick B

Rick B,
Does the VIN cross to any of the other Indy's or was an Indy interior installed after the fact in this car?

Do you know of any listings from DGP or Pontiac Motorsports of the color codes for the multi-brown paint job?

Bob

[This message has been edited by What about Bob (edited 09-30-2008).]

John and Bob both said this car is a Replicar Pace car that they built with the stage 3 body. The vin on it is right with the real cars leading me to believe it was a car they used for something and then turned it over to john to work for PPG. The title says JUNK on it so it may have never been counted as a real replicar. The real pace cars did not have titles like this one did. I will talk with John and Bob a both more on this in the next few weeks.

The one above in the article for Car and Driver with the brown stripes was turned into a whale tail stage 4 and John kept it for awhile. He painted it with a blue bottom and red stripe around the middle with a blue 86 interior using it on his track in Arizona. It was then donated to a museum also. Below are pictures of it thru its life. Rick B

[This message has been edited by SuperchargedV6 (edited 09-30-2008).]

So, does all this info, subtract from-- or add to, the value of the car going on the auction block?
Or, does it make no difference?

I realize any specific vehicle is only worth what any individual is willing to pay, but it seems to me that some of the info posted here, flies in the face of what is printed on the auction website.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great one of a kind car and certainly a piece of Fiero history. Not worth $25K to me now, but if the economy today was what it was last spring, I would bid pretty high for it.
(wonder if they would take an even trade--Jane's 08 Silverado even trade?)

Rats! And I am cash poor at the moment.

It is still what it is, a PPG car built by DGP specifically made thru John Callies & Pontiac Motor Sports. If there was a Super Duty put in it then it is worth it for sure.

When looking at the race footage 3 cars show up on the 1st lap only. I am going to talk to John about that as it would have to be a replicar dressed like the two real SD-4's Somehow this may have ended up being this car??????? That is the problem with past history,, if not well documented then you can only go by memories.

Paced84 and I are working on the vin to see where it was delivered if at all and I will pick Bob and Johns brain more. Without any documentation its only hearsay and the vin is not on the 2000 Pace car replicars. www.FieroPaceCar.com

The body kit for this car is worth over $7,000 , add paint and interior along with it being a museum car from PPG and it is worth it as far as I am concerned. Rick B

Being a PPG pace car will add to the value. but since it is not a Indy Pace car it will take away,

This car will be of big interest to Fiero fans and of some interest to Cart or Indy car fans.

It will sell well but not for big money as many other collector cars.

In the collectror world we get off cheap with Fiero's. Most other popular collector cars $10K-$15K is just entry level for the paint job. Full resto's many will pay $50K or more on some muscle cars. That does not inclue ther purchase price.

Of any Fiero to buy this one would have a good chance of being worth as much or more than it will sell for in the future. It would be a good investment vs just a stock GT.

As for the driving this is not a car you would frive much as the more original it is since it is in great condition the better. This is not a daily driver.

Other PPG cars have sold in the past and they have done well but they just don't do as well price wise as many would expect.

If you want a good special cheap car this one is going to be a good buy.

If I had to guess it will go between $15K-20K. That is bottom end for good collector cars and a bargin for this one with its history.

In case anyone is interested:

Sold for $57,330 inclusive of Buyer's Premium

WOW!!!

That's amazing. I would have guessed $30,000 on a good day.

Any idea who bought it or where it's going? It would be nice if it were going somewhere that it would still be available for display.

Who wants to bet that it is going to V8 Archie for a choptop, Lambo doors, and a chevy small block swap?

Why would anyone ruin a car like that........................ even hypothetically.