from the auction

Sold for $57,330 inclusive of Buyer's Premium

I also own page 2.

[This message has been edited by IwannaIRM (edited 10-05-2008).]

So that's $67,076.10 total. Good grief! I'm much the Fiero fan, but even if I had the money, I'm not sure I'd pay that much for it. Do you know how many pristine, low mileage, CJB T topped, 1988 GTs you could buy for that kind of green? I could have one for every day of the week. (As long as the week only had 2 or 3 days, of course.)

I agree. I would be very interested to know the buyers logic.

Pretty much a 1 of a kind with extensive provenance, yeah I can see it, in a serious collector's holdings. Lots of big money folks have pulled their $ from traditional investments and are looking for long term investments to hedge against the market. Long term, that paid price is a good thing for those of us who hold our cars for long term--I think. I'm glad to see it go for such a high price.

Well Hell, I'll sell him mine for $50,000 seeing I have more history on mine and built by the same guys before the PPG car. Also my Prototype is driveable since Bob refused to build it unless he could own the title to cut red tape. Its driveable on the street. Rick B







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atKhjhw2vG0

http://www.youtube.com/watc...0Ahc&feature=related

quote Originally posted by SuperchargedV6: Well Hell, I'll sell him mine for $50,000 seeing I have more history on mine and built by the same guys before the PPG car. Also my Prototype is driveable since Bob refused to build it unless he could own the title to cut red tape. Its driveable on the street. Rick B

I have kind of been sitting back watching this thread and the auction wondering where it would go. The car definately went for a premium price at 49,000 hammer price plus the 17% buyers premium.

I have always been in love with this car even before it went in to the Chicago Museum. The car was at the 1986 Detroit Auto Show in with the Pontiac display. Unfortunately, the photos I took were lost a long time ago. I was definately surprised to see the car in the museum in 1990. Now, I am definately surprised to see it out again.

When Ron T. (Paced 84) and our group went to the Chicago Museum in February 2007 to photo document the car, not only did they refer to the car as an artifact, and not let us past the mirrors to take pictures, but told us that the car would never leave the museum. Even after I told them that I was willing to buy the car, fully understood the GM donation contract, and already owned a PPG car bought under the same conditions, they said the car would never leave the museum. Well look what happend. The car left the museum less than two weeks before the auction.

But, anyways, I have a picture from an Oakland Press article that shows a SD car with the Disked Centerlines and roof scoop with strobes with John Callies at the wheel on track at Indy. The article was written by Ed Noble who drove the car with John and made a fairly candid recollection of the 232hp SD-4. In the picture, the car has a Michigan manufacturers plate with # 595 AAP on it. Through Ron T.'s research at PPG, PPG supplied Ron with a copy of the Michigan plate registration that clearly states the license plate number 595 AAP. Also, on this very same registration slip is the VIN# 1G2AF37R6EP220268 in which we have confirmed that this is the VIN of the PPG Indy Pace Car. So, if at least, this puts the car at the track during the month of May. It will be interesting where further research may take the discrpency that John said that there were only two cars built by him. We also have the original GM prototype window tag number of 4P074. We have confirmed that track Indy #1 has the tag # 4P075 and Indy #2 has tag number 4P073. It just seems odd that the PPG car prototype designation falls in between the other two confirmed track cars. Maybe in my travels to the Heritage Center archives, I can dig up some more info. I think that the reason that there is not much historical information on this car is due to the fact that it is a car that was under the confidential wings of GM and PPG. Most of the records of the PPG Pace Car Program were simply thrown out in 2002 when the program ended. The statement that Bob Birchmeir did not remember the car might simply be because he did not build it. The were numerous different shops that built the PPG Pace Cars and being that the car was built under the PPG budget, I might suspect that Bob's shop may have not had anything to do with it other than supply the body panels. Maybe Rick can pry some more info out of Bob. Regardless, there is more info to be found on the car for us that care to have the historical documentation. Definately significant to the Fiero history.

After viewing the PPG car at the Chicago Museum and being told that it would never leave the museum, I sat and penciled down an estimate of just what it might take to make a replica of the car from parts known to be had.

Here is what I came up with in Feb. 2007:
Running SD-4 15-25k
SD 4 spd trans with straight cut Webster gears, 10k
Gleason Torsen limited slip diff. $1500
16x8 and 16x9 Centerline Q style Wheels plus disks. 1K ( I have around $3500 in to this project and still do have finished wheels yet)
IMSA body from the Fiero Warehouse, 4k, wrap around wing $400, Chin Spoiler $200, Indy Scoop, $340
Strobe light system from Whelen, $1500
Rust free 84 Donor Car, maybe $500
Paint materials and supplies only, 2K for PPG Deltron
Fire Suppression system $600
Items that are elusive to find:
Belltech 2" Drop Spindles
SD Prototype Fuel Cell
Bilstein Adjsutable Shock and Struts
Good set of Goodyear Eagle VR50's
Electrohydraulic Power Brake System
Electrohydraulic Power Steering System. (Toddster sold his for $3500??)

Some of these price estimates came from the actual money spent on parts that I needed for my yellow PPG car.

So, after writing down this list, I figured out the bill was going to go north of the effort and money I wanted to spend on a replica not including my labor and research to find the parts. I guess that maybe 49k auction price for the car might be justifiable considering that it is complete and has history attached to it. They sure did not divulge if the car was running after 20 years of sitting.

Well, I guess it will be interesting to see where the car appears again. For now it is lost again.

Fred

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: They sure did not divulge if the car was running after 20 years of sitting.

While it may start, I'm guessing, after sitting that long, it wouldn't be road worthy. Assuming it's in the same condition as any other well kept car that's been sitting that long, I wonder what it would take ($$) to make it road worthy? It would obviously need new tires and rubber hoses, etc. Would the motor need a complete rebuild? Or just an oil change?

Fred,
Bob built these and not sure where you seen me say he didn’t remember??? He did remember it as a replicar and not the Pace car which I brought to light over a year ago but no one wanted to believe me.. I am wondering if it was a stand-in track car that did not have a SD4 at the time. This car in auction states 2.7 Turbo,, is that true?? I will be calling them to dig harder maybe tonight and let John know what were confused on and hope he can help. Rick B

Fred, I can't believe you weren't in Ma. this weekend to pick up the keys!

Fred you might get ahold of Donald Davidson at the speedway . He would have the best info of the on track cars.

It was always my understanding there was 3 on trac cars. The speed way requirement for many years was to supply 1 pace car and 2 back up cars for the event.

At the start of many of the races they have used 2-3 pace cars on the parade lap. If someone has a video we may have a clue if there was a 3rd car on the parade laps.

I may be wrong but I still have a gut geeling this was a Indy pace car that was convereted. It has been a lot of years but this is what I remember on them as I had a great interest in them at race time.


The price paid is to be expectred not for just a Fiero but a protoype car with on track indy car history. This car is as much an interest to Indy car fans as Fiero fans. Many Indy fans may also have deeper pockest as many already own many old race cars. What better than to own a pace car to go with an Indy car collection.

As for the museam selling the car it is nothing new. GM has donated many cars only to find them sold later. They even fought the break up of the Collier museam in Florida when they found the CREV1 and 2 were being sold.

GM hide them there in the 60's and they were not to be sold. GM was told they no loner own them and could not stop the sale.

The GM historical collection was created to not only preserve many of GM's cars but also prevent them from being out of the companies control.

My Father inlaw knows the brother of the guy who worked with the PPG cars in the 80's. I will have to see if he is still able to contact him. HE may know more on this car? His last name was Lowe but I had never met the man. I used to get ticket from him for the Brickyard race since it was PPG sponsored in the begining.

If I recalled he had a aviation vcompany in Colorado too.

Fred I will give you the name if I can get it or where he is. It has been a long time since I spoke to his brother so I may not be able to get anything.

Edit down below.

Jason

[This message has been edited by BrewCheese (edited 10-07-2008).]

quote Well, I guess it will be interesting to see where the car appears again. For now it is lost again. Fred

That kinda bothers me--probably more than it should. The car goes into a private collection, and is never heard of again--till the owner passes away--then "Maybe" it shows up at auction--maybe just passed down in the family. Maybe not. This, is how history gets lost. A 3rd, rather disintersted party ends up with something rare, and no one ever knows about it.

That BTW, is kinda how I ended up with one of my Indys. The owner* passed away, but had left it to a female employee and friend of his. She kept it in her garage for a few months, really didn't care anything about it, never drove it, then decided to sell it, and someone here on the forum happened to hear about it, and posted in the Mall. She (the inheritee) could have just as easily sold it to some kid down the street and we'd likely have never known it was still around anywhere. Not meaning that my Indy is anywhere near as special or valuable as the PPG cars of course. I just hate to see Fieros (Indys especially) simply 'fade away'.


*The owner who died and left it to his friend and employee was R.C. Sherman, former IHRA Funny Car Champion, and his Indy (now mine) was featured in Dec 2007 Autoweek magazine.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-06-2008).]

Private collctors are a blessing or curse. Many have saved cars and we still have them today like the owner of the Bortz GM Motorama collection but others can distroy cars like the guy who owns the 55 Chevy from American Graffiti.

I have looked at the "1984" Indy "500" tape several times this week. There are three Indys on the track waiting for start. As the parade lap starts one has got to look very close to see three. . It apears there are only two, but when I went frame by frame one can see there is a third.

R T

------------------

signature by F-I-E-R-O (My Indy on right / #1 IMS)

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: Private collctors are a blessing or curse. Many have saved cars and we still have them today like the owner of the Bortz GM Motorama collection but others can distroy cars like the guy who owns the 55 Chevy from American Graffiti.

You mean like Boyd Cottington? He used to make me sick when he destroyed perfect cars instead of finding a basket case to destroy and he didnt care when people got upset over this.. Rick B

quote Originally posted by paced84: I have looked at the "1984" Indy "500" tape several times this week. There are three Indys on the track waiting for start. As the parade lap starts one has got to look very close to see three. . It apears there are only two, but when I went frame by frame one can see there is a third. R T

Thanks for checking I was working from a old memory.

I thought there were 3 on track.

I just watched the beginning of the Indy tape again and there are actually 3 fieros on the track during the parade lap. You can see all 3 at 2 different times on the tape if you look really close like paced84 said. I cant tell if all three have the pace car scoop but you can tell they all have the special flashers going.

Jason

Nice.

quote Originally posted by BrewCheese: I just watched the beginning of the Indy tape again and there are actually 3 fieros on the track during the parade lap. You can see all 3 at 2 different times on the tape if you look really close like paced84 said. I cant tell if all three have the pace car scoop but you can tell they all have the special flashers going. Jason

Yes but did you notice after that you will only see two? One is on pit row and the other is far right at end where cars are taken off the track. There is not three after the very 1st lap around the track. They put three on the initial track only because two looked odd. Rick B

Someone from the speed way may be able to give the details but if I recall correctly for many years the MFG are required to provide 3 cars that are capable of pacing the field.

The rule was put in so if a pace car failed or had a accedent [1971 Challanger] they would still have a car able to pace the race. Also these cars for many years were not stock and needed back ups as they were run hard for the entire month of May.

A stock pace car could not meet the requirement of the speedway so that is why there were at least two cars there and as for the third more needs to be learned.

Either way GM often uses 3 cars in Indycar or even Nascar to pace the field on parade laps. But with 2 or 3 laps to go they pull them off. It really has nothing to do with lookd but more with on track exposure. GM pays a lot of money to be the pace car and they try to get their moneys worth.

If your willing to call the man who built the pace car for the 1984 Indianapolis and drove the main car a liar then so be it. I have spoken to him on more than one occasion and he said he built two and only two Super Duty 4 cars more than once.

He is miffed on why folks refuse to believe this as I am. I guess if you think something is supposed to be a certain way from years of assumptions, you start to think it is the only way it could be. When the truth comes out it is hard to believe and if you tell a story for many years that you honestly thought was correct, it can be hard to retract I guess once found to have not been as rumored..

I am just happy to have John tell me in his own words.

Rick B

I have to agree with Rick on this one. Just because it was on the track during the pace laps does not make it a pace car. It could have been a stock drivetrain. Hard to say without some hard evidence. But the fact that John stated that he build only two should be taken as fact. I have known John for over 5 years now and he has NEVER exagerated and his memory is crystal clear on things he states. If he was unsure, he would say so. I have never found any of his facts to be wrong.

What was lost has been found. You guys should have known that I could not resist this one. At about 7pm tonight, FedEx Critical Care Passport Auto Transport delivered the latest addition to my collection to Iowa. I surely will tell you that all of the anxiety, uncertainty and sleepless nights during the last two weeks seem insignificant now. To be perfectly frank, I am not a huge fan of auctions like this one. The pictures I have tonight are not the best since it was dark and there was much more on our minds than taking high quality pictures.

First Sight


Mmmm, Widebody


Ride off the upper deck


Signing the bill of lading and the condition report


Proud new owners


Front Compartment


SUPER DUTY Look at how thick that dust is on the left side of the frame


I am relieved to see that the car is complete with no ommisions. The car looks like it was taken off track and set in to the museum. All of the safety equipment is still intact as the day it was used. The fire cans for the fire suppression are still clamped in. The only items removed from the car are the two batteries and the two way radio. The car delivered tonight is exactly as we had photographed it at the museum in February of 2007.

The car is extremelt dusty. They did not do anything for the auction to clean it. It appears that physically, it will take some good old fashioned elbow grease with polish and a toothbrush to make the car show quality again. There are chips in the front fascia from the track use, but other wise the paint is near perfect. The stock appearing Indy interior is near new with the exception of the driver's side bolster wear. It even still has the new Fiero smell inside.

This whole aquisition was made with the assistance of some other people. I need to thank Paul Vargyas of NIFE for advising and assisting in the requirements of bidding for the auction. With out Paul's help, I do not think that this would have happend for me. There are three of us, my good friend Ed York, my beloved other half Annette Wilson and myself who have put forth the funding to purchase the car together.

That's it for tonight as tomorrow will be a big day. I will be photographing the car along with my Yellow PPG and my Indy together tomorrow.

Fred

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: What was lost has been found.

Wow, congrats on acquiring a great piece of Fiero history! Glad it went to someone who'll take care of it, and it's nice to know it hasn't been lost to the Fiero community.

Oh, and more pics when you get time!

If you buy the '90 proto... I am leaving Texas and moving into the lot next to you...

Congrats Fred! (other proud owners)

Wow, that's all I can say..... I am so pleased that we will be seeing more of this car. I have a question Fred. Did I read the auction description correctly about not being able to register / drive the car? Not that you would want to drive that piece of history around on public streets but I think it would be great if someday you could take it around Indy for a few laps.... I guess it would not have to be registered to run it around the track. Anyway, Congratulations to you and your proud partners. I am very happy for all of you. Please post lots of pics and keep us all updated on the restoration progress. I hope to see this at a Fiero show in the near future.

Another question: If this car does fall between the 2 known track Indy's and Mr. Callies only built 2 super duties, was the super duty installed in this one when the PPG kit was installed? Can't wait for more of this cars hsitory to be revealed / discovered.

Pat

Just curious, how long before this thread started did you know about the auction?

You're going to need your own transport for the 30th!

Very Cool! Glad someone in the fiero community got it so we can see plenty more of it. Over the years I think Ive spent hours by the glass at MSI looking at the car.

Jason

Deep down after the auction I'm sitting there thinking Fred had to have bought this as I couldn't see him passing it up. I'm glad to say that I was still surprised as hell but very glad he was able to get it. Now he needs to get a 3 car trailer to be able to bring them all to the shows!! Also Kudos to Ed and Annette for making it possible as it would have been a loss to have it go into some private collection.

Congats Guys!!!!!!

Dan

Congrats to Fred the winning bidder. This is a great example of Fiero history; some really good detailing should get it back to museum shape.. Also that engine most likely hasn't been started in a long while so you've got your work cut out to get it started and running. While I don't expect that you'll be driving this Fiero on the road much, I'm sure that there are many who are curious as to if it can be started and how the engine sounds. I would guess that with a 230 HP four this Fiero has a giant cam, huge ports and was made for racing only, but the collector signifcance is tha main attraction. Enjoy it.

------------------
87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Congratualtions Fred and I know you wont be reading this for a bit as you will be busy with the car. I can bet you slept in it last night also hahahaha. Glad to see it in good hands. Rick B

Simply nice!

What's the transporter's phone number? They seem to be doing all of the right things.

You lucky SOB! I figured it was purchased by an Indy guy or an eccentric billionaire. Are you bringing it to the next Michigan show? I'd love to see it in person! Glad to see it will be in good hands.

------------------

1984 Fiero SE

Thank you for saving this one Fred! I cannot think of a better home.

Congrats buddy!

Congratulations, I was hoping you would get it!

I can't wait to see it at the 30th

Congrats Fred good one.

------------------

T-Top ~HUD~LEDs ~Red Fieros~Carputer~Reverse lights

That's awesome Fred. You should start a museum!

------------------
4 Indys, 1 is A/C delete
85 GT speedster project
86 GT Corvette Yellow
2 88 Formula T-Tops
91 Grand Prix GTP, 3.4 TDC, 5 Speed
01 GMC "1 ton of fun" Crew Dually Diesel
08 Ford Escape

However......
"Time is the most precious and perishable of my possessions."

Buy IRM, again! at www.fierowarehouse.com