Congrats!! Tickled pink that someone as caring for these cars as you are got this one!!

Thanks, all of the "Congrats" are fully accepted. Seeing the car in daylight was very exciting. It is gorgeous as the pearl in the white and the four shades of purple pop in the sunlight. The paint is going to need a good polishing and that is it. The chips in the nose will need some careful airbrush touch up which is no big deal to me. The rest of the car is filthy from sitting almost 20 years with out any attention. Overall physical condition is excellent. The car will need a detail restoration to make it show worthy. I shot over 200 photos and Ed did the same yesterday. Lots of photo resizing to do.

The research on details of the history of the car are in the works. I have made a gazillion phone calls and E-Mails to known people who might have information. My hard documentation indicates that this car was at Indy, but our contact with John Callies says that he only prepared two, but there were three cars at the start of the race. So, being that the correct information is important to me now, I will dig until I have confirmation as to exactly where and why there is a discrepency between the number of track cars built. I have several theories, but we will see.

Concerning the title situation, the car is under the GM Donation Contract which specifically states rules for donation. In a nutshell, the car can not be titled, registered, or operated on public or private roads. I did not buy it for driving as this car is to significant and is not a concern of mine in any way. I made several phone calls to my contacts at GM to see just exactly what could happen. If they so desire to pursue the issue, a new Contract of Donation would be written in my name including an eternal lien of interest by GM.

The car has fluids everywhere, so nothing was drained. I do not smell any fuel, so they either drained it or it evaporated. So, normal proceedure for non running cars will be followed. The fuel tank and fuel cell will be dropped and inspected, oil pressure will be applied before any engine turn over and all fluids will be flushed and changed. I put my battery charger on one set of the battery cables to roll a window down, and the dash lit up along with all of the varoius solenoids for the dual batteries and strobe power supply. The brakes are solid with no stuck calipers which is a good sign. The clutch hydraulics also release the clutch fine enough to hold and release the car on the ramps of the trailer. So, from my experience of resurecting Fieros from extended periods of sitting, this one will not be to bad from what I have seen so far. Definately not a barn car. I think that the fact that the car sat in it's humidy controlled glass bubble for all those years helped tremendously.

I will start a new thread for the details and history of the car.

Dan (Gokart Mozart), you get full credit for alerting the Fiero Community on the auction. You were the first to mention anything about it. Ron T. called me early in the afternoon on Monday, Spt. 29 while I was at work to tell me about what had happened with the car. It was a surprise and somewhat of a shock because we were specificaly told by the museum that the artifact would never under any circumstances, leave the museum collection. I guess Webster needs to re-define "never". Thanks a million Dan! You definitely made a contribution to aquiring this car.

Annette has officially cut me off of buying Fieros for a while UNLESS, the 90 might become available.

Here are some general pics from yesterday:







My Pace Car Collection has grown again:






Fred

Fred -

More then congrats are in order here. I for one want to THANK YOU for what you have done. Who knows what might have happened to this wonderful car if you had not stepped up to the plate. I work for a automoblie museum and I can tell you first hand what can happen to cars in the hands of people who have more money then they have a true love of automobiles. They may love to collect them but it's mostly a status thing. I have seen many one of a kind cars abused in one manor or another.

Again thank you ... and congrats ... and boy are we envious.

Rick - Vicki Kaiser
Red - Rose - Anni

Hey Fred,

I understand your commitment to preserving this wonderful car but if you had the chance, would you take it for a lap or 2 at Indy? Maybe GM would give you a waiver - or what about setting up a day the week of Indy where certain past pace cars get to make a lap or two? I know I'm dreaming but I would be there for that. I personaly would love to see / have a pic of that car, with you driving, crossing the bricks...... Like others have said, Thanks for keeping this car out in the sun for all of us to admire and enjoy with you.

Pat

Of course I would drive it on Indy. I have never been bashful about giving rides. As a matter of fact, there were a few of my good friends who I thoroughly trust who drove my cars at the 25th. We were just talking yesterday that it would be neat to take it out to the Monterrey Historic races. I would even sacrifice a few miles on my 193 mile Indy to be able to have pictures of it on the bricks. These cars are rare, but there are just times that the small amount of usage are a fair trade off for the event you are participating in. I even ran my Yellow PPG on MIS in 2005 to be able to say that I did. It pulled to 140 mph with out any troubles. If you have seen the tires on the car, you would call me crazy.

The GM contract does say that the donated vehicle can not be operated on public or private roads. I have that question for my contact at GM to research. The next rule after that states that GM is not responsible for any liabilities as of a result of the donated vehicle. I will once again need to be educated on the legal meanings of the contract. Of course, this is if anybody at GM cares to pursue the matter.

The nice item on the Indy PPG is that the Goodyear Eagle VR 50 tires are about 85% of new. The rubber is still soft and the tread is shaved for track use. The car obviously has not seen much heat and UV. Even the headliner shows no signs of deterioration.

Fred

quote Originally posted by SuperchargedV6: If your willing to call the man who built the pace car for the 1984 Indianapolis and drove the main car a liar then so be it. I have spoken to him on more than one occasion and he said he built two and only two Super Duty 4 cars more than once. He is miffed on why folks refuse to believe this as I am. I guess if you think something is supposed to be a certain way from years of assumptions, you start to think it is the only way it could be. When the truth comes out it is hard to believe and if you tell a story for many years that you honestly thought was correct, it can be hard to retract I guess once found to have not been as rumored.. I am just happy to have John tell me in his own words. Rick B

What about the pacecar with teh Turbo Sunbird engine?

Man, wow oh wow is all that I can say...

It's great to be able to see your pictures, am looking forward to more as you get
time to post them. I have some pics that I took at the museum on August 21, of
course they are behind the glass so not very good. Really enjoyed seeing the
closeups that you posted, never thought I would get to see that.
Thank you for sharing your car with us!

I would love to see copies of the body panels from your yellow pace car.

Congrats on the aquisition.
It has obviously left a big hole in the pocket. Ready to sell me the yellow one yet so I can whisk it off to Australia?

Way to go Fred. It couldn't have gone to a greater Fiero Guy.

So when does the "Fred Bartelmeyer Fiero Pacecar Musueum" open? Will discounts be available to the PFF Community?

I think we need to re-consider hosting the 30th Anniversary Show in Iowa. That way, you won't have to transport them thru three states.

Jeff

Congratulations Fred. WOW you know I had a feeling that you might find a way to keep it local and in the Fiero community. btw I sent you an e-mail as well.

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: Fred

Please take it in the most friendly, appreciative way when I say: this picture makes me hate your guts.

But seriously: we're ALL glad that this much Fiero history is being cared for so well in one guy's garage. Yeah, they're just cars, but to us here... they're a bit more than that. So: keep 'em safe! (I'm sure you will.)

But no, really: I do hate your guts. ;-p

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I know it's too early to tell but when you decide it's time to take it to a show/event, you have to let us know. I for one will make the trip (where ever) to see it outside in the sunlight instead of behind the glass bubble. Thanks again Fred for sharing it with all of us.

Pat

All I can say is AMAZING. Your collection makes me very jealous. Thank you for keeping these safe for our community to enjoy.

Well Fred I am glad you got it home. I was relieved when I learned you got the car last week. I know it will be preserved and cared for well.

I will have to con you into a ride in them at some event!

It would be great to know more about the third track car as many did not even recall there were 3 on track let alone a 4th car prototype still at Indy today. It would be nice to know more details as that is all I want to know.

It may not be a SD car but If I recall it had Centerline wheels and a Scoope, but again it was a long time ago and the last time I saw the race was in 1984. I could care less if it was a SD car or not it would just be nice to know more details on the car.

One thing I have learned is many of the Fiero fans know the history better than many who even worked on it. For them it was just a job and not the highlight in their veiw of their carear as most have done many great things. . How many can remember what you did at work 25 years ago in great detail?

Bump because this piece of history shouldn't be ignored.

Great story, and a great buy. I for one am lacking in the area of Indy Fiero lore, and would love to learn more. Would anyone care to explain who PPG and DGP were/are? I have seen PPG all over this forum, yet I don't really know the significance of their involvement in Fiero history. Sorry if I sound like a "noob".

Hey Fred, I do not know why that John doesn't remember building that car and saying he did not know about it, have him turn to page 96 in the Witzenburg Fiero Book (2nd edition) and the picture in the lower left corner is "YOUR" car on the lift!!!! Maybe find out some more about this car or at least pictures (if he still has any) contact Gary Witzenburg.
Just a thought.

[This message has been edited by FIERO JOHN-WI (edited 12-04-2008).]

It doesn't surprise me that John can't remember. I can't remember what I had for breakfast.

Lock 'em up good Fred. I'm drivein' east with a trailer and some bolt cutters!

Well I was wrong and actually happy to hear it. I was misled by what many here have said,,, 25 years of forgetting. Fred talks about it here http://www.fieropacecar.com...file=viewtopic&p=949 I am happy I was informed incorrectly and very happy for Fred. Rick B

[This message has been edited by SuperchargedV6 (edited 12-04-2008).]

Rick we have talked about this before and I hope you will trust me now when I tell you a lot of these people that worked on these car don't always remember everything.

Many of these cars were just one of many cars and projects in their past they sometimes can't always fully recall all the details.

I learned this before on some of the thing I have dug into in the past with GM people. While these cars are our obsession to them they were just a day on the job for them 25 years ago.

Kind of like the many people in Star Trek or Star Wars. The actors do not alway recall a lot of the part they played but the fans can recite the dialog from memory.

With the many great cars John was involved with you can't expect him to recall everything off the top of his head. A few might stick out but there are just so many projects he did.

so was this car originally identical to the car that actually did the pacing of the 84 500 ? does the vin show it to originally be an indy model ? i thought it was previously stated that the actual pace cars did not have vin numbers .i am not questioning authenticity here , just a little confused .

i didnt know these cars had the powermaster brake system this is the same system that was put on the grand nationals

Wow!
I had lost this thread for a while.

Congrats, Fred!
I know that the car is in good hands. I still remember seeing it in all the magazines, way back when.

The situation at GM being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the various prototypes found their way to the hands of private collectors, in the not-too-distant future. Just speculation, of course.

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Raydar
88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe -soon to be something other than red

Read Nealz Nuze! Praise the Lowered!

quote Originally posted by Raydar: The situation at GM being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the various prototypes found their way to the hands of private collectors, in the not-too-distant future. Just speculation, of course.

Yeah I don't understand why GM doesn't sell prototypes versus crushing them. I know about the liability and all that. But have people sign waivers out the wazoo and sell baby sell. Think of all the EV1s they could have sold instead of turning them into scrap metal, not to mention the 1990 Fiero Coupe prototypes that were crushed. Sheesh.

quote Originally posted by Ditkaphile: Great story, and a great buy. I for one am lacking in the area of Indy Fiero lore, and would love to learn more. Would anyone care to explain who PPG and DGP were/are? I have seen PPG all over this forum, yet I don't really know the significance of their involvement in Fiero history. Sorry if I sound like a "noob".

PPG is Pittsburg Plate Glass abbreviated. PPG sponsored the CART Indy Car World Series of Racing from 1974 to 2002. In addition to sponsoring the racing, they supplied approximately a dozen special pace cars each year from any and all of the manufacturers including cars and light trucks from GM, Ford, Chrysler, Renault, Honda, Toyota, Ferrari, Lamborghini,ect. Each car was built to showcase the capabilities of PPG and any supplier of any services willing to participate to the customer; the OEM manufacturer. PPG's main interest was showing their automotive paint, glass and various chemical products that they manufacture. Most of these pace cars are either experimental, prototype or highly modified street versions with some costing hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce. The OEM manufactuers also used the series to promote their products by donating cars and resources.

DGP is Diversified Glass Products abbreviated. DGP was contracted by GM to build the body components for the Fiero race cars and later went on to build the street versions of the IMSA widebodies. Rick Borecky (SuperchargedV6) has a complete history of this company. If you search around the forum, you should be able to find the thread on his car.

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: GM Archives and the documentation that we have collected over the years is that I have verification that this PPG Pace Car is in fact the former #3 Indy Pace Car.

Wow..., and I remember all those speculation threads from years ago wondering what had become of #3... and now you have it.

So, if I understand this correctly... after #3 paced Indy... it was sent off and underwent a color and body metamorphasis to what it is now?
Do I have that right?
I'd be curious about the era of time from Indy to Chicago Museum...

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<---- did you buy Cliff a beer?

Fred you need t get ahold of Don Keefe as I see a potential cover story on this car.

It is good your getting this info now as 10 years form now you may not be able to speak to some of these folks.

Also you need to bring it top the Pontiac Nat in Norwalk last year. They get many freature car stories there with those who attend. Besides you can give a ride too LOL!

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 12-08-2008).]

I lost track of this thread back in early October, right after the auction. I didn't realize who had won the car!
As all the rest have said, CONGRATULAIONS Fred!! We should have known!
I definitely have to visit Iowa now!
Way to go buddy!

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84' Indy Pace Car (car #2000)
86' G.T.
87' Coupe (daily driver)
88' Formula (V8 project)
Member: NIFE

quote Originally posted by blakeinspace: So, if I understand this correctly... after #3 paced Indy... it was sent off and underwent a color and body metamorphasis to what it is now? Do I have that right? I'd be curious about the era of time from Indy to Chicago Museum...

Here are some pictures I have of the car during the transitions with a little history added.

The three cars at Indy. We have been corrected as to what cars were considered #1, #2, and #3. #1 is the test car John Callies affectionately described during the 25th banquet presentation. This very same car is the car that is in the GM Heritage Collection and is the car that was on display at the 25th. #2 is the car that actually paced the entire race and is the car that is at IMS. #3 was the back-up car and was used for press rides and drives to allow rookie drivers to become familiar with the track. On race day, there was uncertainty about the mechanical reliability of #1 because of the extensive testing and development. So in the picture we know that #2 is out front with John Callies. There is the posibility that #3 is the second car in line due to this as they figured they could duck #1 off in a hurry if something happened. Nothing did, but John was concerned about something. One of the verifications that were made at the start of my research is that the three cars had to be Super Duty cars spec'ed to IMS rules or they would have not been out in front of the field of Indy cars.



This picture is the press release photo of the car during summer of 84. At this time, only the door decals were changed, flush mount park lights added, and CART Mandated additional safety equipment. The flush mount park light lenses are modified 73-79 Chevy Truck park light lenses.



A picture of the car on display at unknown venue. The back of the picture is date 7-84. Still just red graphics.



Debut for 85, the car appeared with all new blue graphics. What I have not confirmed yet is if the car was painted pearl white when the new blue graphics were put on.



A nice picture from the 85 season with some of the other PPG Pace Cars. The Dodge Daytona is in Denver and is as nice and original as my PPG Indy Fiero. The Mustang is in the Rousch museum in Detroit.



This picture was taken after the car's second repaint in summer 87. The car had an on track incident at Pheonix and PPG decided to repaint the entire car. In the picture, the Pearl Green PPG GTP is behind the car.



That generally sums up the changes the car made over the years. This type of transition was common for a lot of the #3 Indy Pace Cars donated to PPG.

Fred

I have not read all this thread (I will do so when time permits).
However - it has come to my attention that there is a discussion on if there were two (2) or three (3) Indy Fieros at the track.
Like the pic posted above which shows three (3), this one does as well, but is a different pic:



Hope this helps.

quote Originally posted by RAREW66:

:amazed:

Those are some fantastic photos... nice documentation.
Do you have any info on the widebody kit? After #3 got wrecked did someone design a widebody kit & IMSA spoiler specifically for #3...
or did PPG buy those from IRM? (no idea if IRM even existed at that time or not...)

Speaking of the wreck, do you have any details on that, like who and how?... any signs of that on the car (like a frame repair)?

The body was already in use on a few other cars along with the paint scheme from DGP who actually made the cars body and painted it for PPG. This picture below was the first stage three DGP did. Notice when the scoop went on the PONTIAC was changed and the scoop had holes drilled in it if you look close. Rick B

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: This picture was taken after the car's second repaint in summer 87. The car had an on track incident at Pheonix and PPG decided to repaint the entire car. In the picture, the Pearl Green PPG GTP is behind the car.

Fred,
Do you know who may have the paint code for the Pearl Green?

Thanks

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Bob
84 SE IMSA Widebody
87 GT 5spd
05 Vibe

I may have to pay you a visit Fred

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: Fred

Congrats Fred - thanks for saving this one and keeping it in the PFF community.
I am crossing my fingers that the 2+2, vert, and especially the race car also go to a good home from Barrett Jackson...

Ryan

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Indy Northstar-Stretch ~ LT1-NOS Roadster