quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Every 3800 swap i have seen up here with poly or "stiff" rubber mounts has wheelhoped at one time or another. Mine used to mildly before I changed over some of my stuff a year ago. The poly seems to put a very high frequency vibration through the driveline during wheelhop, that I believe to be quite dangerous. The rubber mounts I had before I fixed it, wheel hoped very slowly. I might go to another setup now that I have my turbo, as I seem to have some other issues when I try to get out hard on street tires.

Dude, really? Rubber increases wheel hop, not reduce it. My C5 w/ stock mounts will wheel hop i I don't launch it right. This is why a lot of the 'racers' go to solid mount.

Edit: Mounts look good Ryan.

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 10-27-2008).]

quote Originally posted by RandomTask: Dude, really? Rubber increases wheel hop, not reduce it. My C5 w/ stock mounts will wheel hop i I don't launch it right. This is why a lot of the 'racers' go to solid mount. Edit: Mounts look good Ryan.

Yeah, thats what I was going to say. Ill just drop the bomb here. My car runs 10's, my engine is literally solid mounted and it doesnt hop at all on street tires or slicks. Of course on my nitto 555r street radials I can spin them at 60 mph, but I still dont get any hop. I will sell you a set of mounts if you are interested, and it will probably eliminate your wheelhop issues

My rubber mounts really helped me get the traction back when I was only making 240 wheel. I imagine I will want to add another torque catch to this new setup of mine, as it doesnt have the same power characteristics.

I will still stay rubber, I just need to beef it up a bit more, as I never designed these mounts (I made them 3 years ago) for power handling past what I would be making on a stock blower car.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Seems that the camaro guys love poly bushings! http://www.geocities.com/Mo...ty/1701/bushings.htm (I have poly bushings on my longitunal links on my car, and it didnt make much of a difference at all. I only put them on because I had them laying around, and mine had 30k miles on the rubber. Doing a rod end setup soon enough so I can adjust the alignment a bit to increase preload.)

Still waiting on you to post pictures of your mounts and the sweet swaps you have done.

The rear trans mount is a dodge truck mount, using a modded trans bracket (gusseted). It doesnt see much action under load other than compression forces, and on decompression there is a metal to metal catch. Under compression loads, it acts like a poly mount would, maybe a bit softer. Credit goes to darthfiero for the idea on using the 87 cradle bushings.

These mounts WITHOUT a dogbone worked flawlessly, but the dogbone was added for added help during decel. I wanted the hard steel lower mounts to take up most of the accel strain, which they do, the dogbone hardly gets loaded on hard launches.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 10-27-2008).]

Those welds and mounts look kind of scary. I wouldn't want my engine bolted up to those I can tell you that much. But hey do what ya gotta do to make yourself feel better.

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1 of 2: Graphite Grey Pearl 87 GT 5 spd: 2.8L (Best 1/4 mile: 15.57@87mph, 2.0 60ft)
2 of 2: Ferrari Red 88 Formula/4T65EHD: 97 GTP Motor (Best 1/4 mile: 12.0@118mph, 1.89 60ft w/True Street Radial Tires not Drag Radials!)
NEW ENGINE SETUP COMING SOON! STAY TUNED!!!

My CarDomain Site
My Friend Garrod's CarDomain Site

If only you could tell the quailty of a weld from a low resolution picture....

And people say I talk out my ass...

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Man the only time i ever seen welds this bad is because I ran out of GAS when welding.

To be on topic since the entire thread is way off track, I need a set for my manual swap.


And for the off topic thread jacker:

[This message has been edited by InTheLead (edited 10-28-2008).]

You guys dont know what flux is do you?

I have a bottle of argon for my tig welder, and I use my wire welder for mockup and my arc welder every so often to finish weld big peices... I dont understand you guys cant be so critical when you have NEVER WELDED IN YOUR LIFE!

Holy crap, I layed down a cleaner bead the second time I touched a welder in my life.


Edited for proof....

[This message has been edited by 86FieroCentPa (edited 10-28-2008).]

gas welding > my FLUX CORE welding 9 months ago...

I maybe welded 2lbs of wire out of my mig the whole time I have welded with it. And before that I have maybe burned a few arc welding rods and a few exhaust pipes on my tig welder.

Why am I on trial for welding anyway?

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 10-28-2008).]

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: gas welding > my FLUX CORE welding 9 months ago... Why am I on trial for welding anyway?

Because you say you weld better then anyone. Maybe go take a class and learn how to weld.

Here's a bit of advice....stop being smarter than you think you are with your words and show us actual product. I don't claim to know a lot mechanically, but I would say I'm experienced with how setups work and the tools and parts to make it all work good, so I chime in from time to time with my thoughts. There is a difference in your posts, because it seems you either attack people or simply discredit anything and everything as being trash and how it would not work, when in fact you have never done most of the things some members are doing. Most of the time, the easiest solution to your problems is to let your car and engine setup do the talking instead of being a keyboard warrior.

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1 of 2: Graphite Grey Pearl 87 GT 5 spd: 2.8L (Best 1/4 mile: 15.57@87mph, 2.0 60ft)
2 of 2: Ferrari Red 88 Formula/4T65EHD: 97 GTP Motor (Best 1/4 mile: 12.0@118mph, 1.89 60ft w/True Street Radial Tires not Drag Radials!)
NEW ENGINE SETUP COMING SOON! STAY TUNED!!!

My CarDomain Site
My Friend Garrod's CarDomain Site

[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 10-28-2008).]

quote Originally posted by fieroX: My mounts will locate the engine in the area where you can use the stock 3800 grand prix aluminum dog bone mount and it will line up with the stock location so you can use the stock dog bone (but I recommend using Rodneys adjustable one, since things can vary by 1/2"). Then you make a low mount alternator bracket with some 3/4" steel tubing with a 3/8" hole. Very simple design, silentassassin post a pic if you would like, to show the unit I built for yours.

I can give it a shot. Sort of a weird angle to fit a big camera into. hehe

On a side not I got the exhaust tips on the car today. Its amazing how civilized it sounds now. Gonna try to get a video soon.

[This message has been edited by Silentassassin185 (edited 10-28-2008).]

quote Originally posted by KEV: Because you say you weld better then anyone. Maybe go take a class and learn how to weld.

I have been in welding class at the local CC for a few months now, I have gotten a bit better, but the fluxcore is still impossible to get looking nice unless I chip it and grind the flux out.

quote because it seems you either attack people or simply discredit anything and everything as being trash and how it would not work, when in fact you have never done most of the things some members are doing. Most of the time, the easiest solution to your problems is to let your car and engine setup do the talking instead of being a keyboard warrior.

When have I NOT proven myself on the track? when have I ever attacked anyone? When have I ever claimed I do things better than anyone else? I sure as hell know I didnt say **** in this thread that would discredit anything.

The MAIN POINT to my posting in this thread (I stayed out of it for awhile, eventhough I had ideas of my own) was because MANY people posted that this was a DIFFERENT option, but in fact these are just a copy of WCF and PR mounts, and that there are OTHER options out there that work, better or worse (I tried to make the point that there are better options, which everyone seems to think is me flaming people?).

Now Ryan is pissed at me, all over something that I just wanted to discuss not attack. I still can not see any malicious attacks on anyone in my posts in this thread, hell if anything I attacked jimmy as I said he was "wrong" for saying this was a different option.

If you asked Ryan, I recently told him that I would like to offer a mount setup, but I am not able to produce welds that look good enough to sell to people that know nothing about welding. The other point to my post (the one that I was going to say, but didnt) was to suggest another method or style to consider, as this thread was about mounts that are GOING to be produced, which means they were not the finished mass produced version.

quote stop being smarter than you think you are with your words and show us actual product.

How do you know how "smart" I am? I dont ever recall meeting you, you seeing my car or any of the cars I have built, or any other possible way to gauge my 'smartness'.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: gas welding > my FLUX CORE welding 9 months ago... I maybe welded 2lbs of wire out of my mig the whole time I have welded with it. And before that I have maybe burned a few arc welding rods and a few exhaust pipes on my tig welder. Why am I on trial for welding anyway?

I am not going to rag on you about welding... everyone has to learn at some time and practice/experience goes a very long way. My only comment is that Flux core is not a guarantee for crappy welds. Here is an example of my flux core welds:



I did finally pick up the gas cylinder today, so I will be joining the non-flux core group after about 10 years of welding with just the flux core wire.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-28-2008).]

quote Originally posted by fieroX: Thats not what he is talking about. His car is sitting in my shop right now about to get a 3800 turbo I am building for him. He is getting a set of prototype mounts. Thomas, you dont have anything to worry about man. These are made of 1/4" steel, and they dont have any weld caves or pinholes like the PR mounts do. The guy that does all of my welding looked at the PR mounts and found numerous areas that could be prone to cracking. Of course to date nobody has broken one, so the fact that mine are actually welded better makes me confident that your setup will be good for at least 600 hp

There is NO WAY my mounts have issues with cracks. They are TIG welded by a Minnesota Board Certified Welder. In fact one person P.M.ed me cause they wanted to modify one on a V-8 swap and couldnt get them apart. They are in HUNDREDS of cars across the globe, and NEVER got one return or failure and I've been doing this for 7 years.

quote Originally posted by fieroX: I am having them built with 2 of the pieces that bolt to the cradle made without holes, so you can line them up yourself and drill your own holes to match to your cradle. Its known that not every fiero cradle is made the same.

So your solution is to make a direct COPY and leave them blank ? You just said it yourself "no cradle is made the same" ..........nice solution. make more work for the installer.

quote Originally posted by fieroX: If you have to drill your own holes to make them work, why do they even come with holes in the first place?

Keep talking out your ass bigmouth. I'm going to give your loose lips & sh!tty business practices about 12 to 18 months and you'll be done. I guarantee you, you cant conduct business like you do with any type of successful future.


Nice website..........goes straight to "go-daddy registration"

Welding with gas is certainly easier, especially on thinner steel but I can get a pretty decent looking flux core weld bead. It just requires a very careful selection of wire feed speed and the proper amperage setting. I've found that gasless mig welding bites in to the steel a bit better while mig with argon/CO2 looks smoother but the penetration doesn't seem as deep. Getting back to FieroX mounts; post pics in the mall and you should sell a few.

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87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I was looking for a "non WCF" style mount setup as I have 2 swaps coming up, and I might want to save myself some time (and promote fiero based busniess) by buying some mounts. Alas another reason I made the post I did... O well your not getting any business from me even if you steal my ideas (which you cant do now, because you were a douchebag and flamed me for it).

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon:

*snicker*

I can attest to PR's welds being VERY strong. I had the same issue with my 88 cradle as FieroX had but instead of drilling more holes i cut the mounts and re weleded them so they would work. it took me a very long time to get it apart. the weld had great penetration.



I slid that bottom part of the bracket back and re-welded it, problem solved.

[This message has been edited by Jrgicehc (edited 10-28-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Chicken McNizzle: Your joking right? PR copied the mounts from WCF Nothing wrong with having a 3rd option available, might actually take some workload off of WCF to get other items out faster - everything is, afterall, fabricated case by case basis. Sure, the materials are in stock, but every single part on the website has to be fabricated.

GET THE STORY STRAIGHT.

This will be the last time I explain this.

Tony Soligney aka "Lowfierogt" or better know as "lowlife-gt" bought mounts from WCF and brought them to a machinst with the intent to copy & resell them. He got a 5 set prototype run and sold a set to me, Kev, and 3 other individuals. Mine failed as soon as the motor went in, and so did Kev's. I brought mine to my own welder and asked what could be done to fix it. He completely redrew prints for them, put them on autocad and repaired my set. Then I had Kev's fixed. As soon as "lowlife" skipped town to Mass. I got to clean up his mess. The other 3 individuals wanted ME to warranty their sets I had some more made and sent them out. Since then enough people have asked for them for me to produce them at a higher volume only BETTER, and still THE BEST MOUNTS EVER FOUND.


There you have it, "lowlife" COPIED them and i get thrown under the bus.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon:

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: You guys dont know what flux is do you? I have a bottle of argon for my tig welder, and I use my wire welder for mockup and my arc welder every so often to finish weld big peices... I dont understand you guys cant be so critical when you have NEVER WELDED IN YOUR LIFE!

Not to flame.......but I am. The only time I speak my mind is when something is unsafe and those mounts deff fall into that catagory. That is the worst looking weld I have ever seen in my life. I have seen chicken sh*t that looks better, and would prob also hold the pieces together better. If you want to say I cant weld here is the proof. I have never been to school for welding or taken any lessons, I am self taught and never in my life have I had one of my welds break (knock on wood)

Like I said I dont want to flame but those mounts IMO are very unsafe.

Think whatever you want to think guys....

I still dont know why everyone and their brother is a metalurgiest from seeing a picture taken more than 6 feet away, then the resolution reduced by half, in bad light, with flux over them.

quote I have never been to school for welding or taken any lessons, I am self taught and never in my life

So obviously you know how to identify weld strength by looking at a unclear picture?

Please explain to me why "looks" tell you everything about how good a weld is?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Think whatever you want to think guys.... I still dont know why everyone and their brother is a metalurgiest from seeing a picture taken more than 6 feet away, then the resolution reduced by half, in bad light, with flux over them. So obviously you know how to identify weld strength by looking at a unclear picture? Please explain to me why "looks" tell you everything about how good a weld is?

Maybe he hasnt but I have been to school for welding. Everyone is right on the money. Thats called buger welding. Lots of blobs & no penetration at all.

You dont use Argon with a Tig on mild steel anyhow. Use mixed gas. Argon is for Mig.

Better yet just back away from the welder before we read about it in the newspaper.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: How do you know how "smart" I am? I dont ever recall meeting you, you seeing my car or any of the cars I have built, or any other possible way to gauge my 'smartness'.

We do know how smart you are...why would I need to meet you in person? People obviously can lie and be dishonest online, but 90% of the time you can tell tell "bs." I'm not flaming you I'm simply trying understand why you think you know exactly what you are doing with everything? We use to have a dude on here named GTdude that everyone worshipped and thought was so smart with GM in fact he was a complete idiot and wasn't even a GM certified tech. Now honestly if you think your welds are so good send me a set so I can see them in person. You post pics and you expect everyone to say oh wow good job when in fact the picture is close enough for people to pick out details? How is that not high res enough. That's like posting a picture on Myspace and saying to a girl...no really I'm way better looking I was like 2 feet away from the camera. A picture is a picture and that's just plain ugly looking. Now if I was saying I was good at wiring, welding, developing brackets and that sort of thing, you can attack me...but once again I know when to talk and you open your big mouth way way too much for someone that talks like a 3rd grader. Nayaight....heere we are.

Go ahead and say none of us know what we are talking about. You see the difference is you could run 9's with whatever you built and we would still not be impressed. Some people just have trouble in the impressive category and you sir have that trouble. We are all waiting for your response as it will disprove everyone once again.

[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 10-28-2008).]

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: Maybe he hasnt but I have been to school for welding. Everyone is right on the money. Thats called buger welding. Lots of blobs & no penetration at all. You dont use Argon with a Tig on mild steel anyhow. Use mixed gas. Argon is for Mig. Better yet just back away from the welder before we read about it in the newspaper.

Again, you have not seen this welding..

There is a nearly complete bead under this, with "blobs" on top due to me filling it in as there was a massive gap there. It is welded on the backside, and I also was limited in what penetration I could do.

You are just plain wrong when you are trying to diagnose the weld, it has paint on it, and you cant even see it!

Any welder that knows what he is talking about would not be able to comment on this without seeing it in person.

To sum it up:

PR it will be okay, there are plenty of people needing mounts so your business will not be hurt that bad. It is good to have another vendor suppling them to take some of the load off you. Get the issue with the holes not lining up on the motor mount and trans mount fixed and roll on.


Admir--You are 100% correct about you not be mechanical---Glad you said it finally--JK


DH--I will give DH props being he did his swap for cheap and it has been proven at the track. It may look like ass and very unsafe but it has been proven to a point. He does love to talk out his ass though and make comments that can't be backed up.

quote Any welder that knows what he is talking about would not be able to comment on this without seeing it in person.

This is true. Everyone else shut up. It really doesn't matter anyway...He's not making them for you.

quote Get the issue with the holes not lining up on the motor mount and trans mount fixed and roll on.

There is no issue. Not a single engine swap I've done (quite a few now) has lined up the same, and all the mounts were identical. There is no room for improvement here...
Purple originally did this to better the Fiero community and encourage engine swaps. All this bickering is ruining the idea.

Almost every swap I've seen has certain "HACKNESS" to it (including mine). None of us have the time or money to dump into making a $200,000 Barret-Jackson fiero. If most of us had that money we would buy an Italian car! Instead I'm stuck making improvements to a 23 year old Pontiac. Everyday we change something, and overlook something else on the car.

Just one example would be: My experience tells me that MOST, not all, but most Fiero engine swaps should have the main electrical system COMPLETELY rewired. How many people do that?? Almost none, because it's extremely time consuming and difficult for some. Many make plug and play harnesses with no problems, but it can always be better!

Sorry to get off topic, But NONE of you idiots that bash people have a nice enough car to be doing it. IN FACT the nice cars I've seen have very humble, courteous owners...

MOBILE

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Member MN Fieros Forever
Self Installed SC3800/getrag. 4 years in Avionics & 14 years in Car Electronics Experience........ 19"s.. w/ 13" Brakes all around.

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: Argon is for Mig.

While argon can be used for MIG, most small shops will use CO2 or a CO2 argon mix. Argon is used to create more of a spray weld and is used to help make the weld smoother and faster to lay down. It also cuts down on the splatter. CO2 makes for a hotter weld so mixing them together will give you a desired result. 25/75 mix is what we used in our shop.

Flux core welds can be made to look good, I used flux core in an fab shop for over 10 years. The small buzz boxes can be made to put down a good weld, make sure you can see whats going on. Most of the time when I put down less than steller weld its because the smoke is blocking my view or my auto dark shield is a POS.

Dark I would suggest that next time you use your buzz box that you also use your grinder and after each pass clean the weld, you can get a good looking weld and it can be strong with a couple of passes.

X good job on the mounts its good that more people are supporting our cars.

quote Originally posted by MOBILE: There is no issue. Not a single engine swap I've done (quite a few now) has lined up the same, and all the mounts were identical. There is no room for improvement here... Purple originally did this to better the Fiero community and encourage engine swaps. All this bickering is ruining the idea.

No isssue?


It was very easy to modify and I will not complain about my mounts because I believe they are good quality.

but dont tell me there is no issue. they do not work right with the 88 cradle.

[This message has been edited by Jrgicehc (edited 10-28-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Jrgicehc: No isssue? It was very easy to modify and I will not complain about my mounts because I believe they are good quality. but dont tell me there is no issue. they do not work right with the 88 cradle.

Havent you been paying attention to almost everyone of my posts ? That's the one issue that has been addressed, they need a definite modification to fit the 88. Actually its cradle that needs modding. Anyhow on another note I have NEVER seen that large of a fitment issue on an 88.

That's why I'll repeat myself THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN GET ONE SET OF MOUNTS TO FIT ALL THE CRADLES. They're all different.

So, if not all mount will fit all cradles why is it such an awful thing that X's mounts need drilled? Why bother putting holes that will need stretched out or cut up if you can just cut the right holes once?

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: Havent you been paying attention to almost everyone of my posts ? That's the one issue that has been addressed, they need a definite modification to fit the 88. Actually its cradle that needs modding. Anyhow on another note I have NEVER seen that large of a fitment issue on an 88. That's why I'll repeat myself THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN GET ONE SET OF MOUNTS TO FIT ALL THE CRADLES. They're all different.

You may not get them to fit perfect but you can make an seperate engine mount for the 88 cradles that will get them as close as the fitment for the Pre-88 cradles. Also I would'nt say only the engine mount for the 88 is the only concern. The firewall side trans mount I used on my current LS4 setup was not the best fitting. While it did fit with a little extra work, it was not a direct fit and I am not talking about the fitment to the poly mount but to the trans. I am not complaining being I know that nothing is perfect and have no problem making it work but don't say the only issue is the engine mount when there are others.

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: Havent you been paying attention to almost everyone of my posts ? That's the one issue that has been addressed, they need a definite modification to fit the 88. Actually its cradle that needs modding. Anyhow on another note I have NEVER seen that large of a fitment issue on an 88. That's why I'll repeat myself THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN GET ONE SET OF MOUNTS TO FIT ALL THE CRADLES. They're all different.

Yeah, the cradle needs modding, BECAUSE YOUR MOUNTS DONT LINE UP!

Mine will fit all cradles because the rearmost mount on the driver side will bolt up to both the transmission and the cradle. The frontmost mount and the mount under the harmonic balancer will come blank. If you have to drill and modify crap anyway, they might as well come blank. My design has also expanded the size of the mount so you can actually mount them to the slotted holes and not have to "modify" the cradle.

So why are you so upset about me making mounts now? You seem threatened. Dont forget, Obama hasnt been elected yet, this is still a free enterprise system. (for now). Was Henry Ford mad when William Durant founded GM?