Just posting because I finally came across the article (assuming there aren't more erroneous articles that is) that specifically makes the "Lotus designed suspension" statement/claim regarding the 1988 suspension revisions/upgrades. I can't say where the author, a Jeff Koch, originally got the notion from, but it's the only place I've seen the "myth" in print so far. Might be where the "Lotus" myth started amongst the public though, so I thought it was worth posting up since it still comes up from time to time.

It's in the August 1995 HIGH PERFORMANCE PONTIAC issue. The "Collector's Guide" in the issue is titled "Fiero V6 1985-88," and it states:

quote "A $30 million, fully in-dependent Lotus-designed suspension graced the 1988 chassis, which finally let the car live up to its performance potential. Shorter spindles, smaller scrub radius, reduction of kingpin angle, longer A-arms and a 28mm anti-roll bar replaced the Chevette pieces up front. A new subframe with different attaching points, a three-link design, lower spring rates and a 22mm anti-roll bar did away with the haggard old X-car pieces ourt back."

Hope everyone enjoyed this little piece of investigative reporting, lol...

-Gary

[This message has been edited by FieroFanatic13 (edited 03-23-2009).]

Maybe it was a copy of the Lotus suspension. At the time the 1988 Fiero was being manufactured Lotus was a tiny company in a small facility that made just a couple hundred cars per year, using a hand laid fiberglas body and other special parts. There was no affiliation between Lotus and GM at the time. The suspension is 100% GM designed.
Another confusing issue is the Getrag. It does use a German design but it was never manufactured in Germany for use on GM cars They were manufactured 100% in Muncie Indiana and are referred to as the 282 Muncie transmisson.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Does anyone know what affiliation Lotus had with Isuzu when they did the suspension in there little sport coupe. If I remember right it was around the same time or a little later. I remember seeing those cars a lot with the emblems that said suspension by Lotus.

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Voge

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Maybe it was a copy of the Lotus suspension. At the time the 1988 Fiero was being manufactured Lotus was a tiny company in a small facility that made just a couple hundred cars per year, using a hand laid fiberglas body and other special parts. There was no affiliation between Lotus and GM at the time. The suspension is 100% GM designed. Another confusing issue is the Getrag. It does use a German design but it was never manufactured in Germany for use on GM cars They were manufactured 100% in Muncie Indiana and are referred to as the 282 Muncie transmisson.

You make a good point about the Getrag. In most parts books it's listed as the 5-speed Muncie. That could be confusing if you didn't know it was a Getrag design, but built by Muncie.
The Lotus suspension myth goes back farther than 1995, I believe. I remember hearing about it a long time ago, but I don't recall where I first encountered it.

quote Originally posted by Vogelsong: Does anyone know what affiliation Lotus had with Isuzu when they did the suspension in there little sport coupe. If I remember right it was around the same time or a little later. I remember seeing those cars a lot with the emblems that said suspension by Lotus.

I don't know what affiliation specifically but the car was the Isuzu Impulse. The first was in 1981 but they wern't sold here in the states until 1983. There were three different suspension tuning levels, standard, Irmscher, and Lotus. Then in 1988 they only offered them with Lotus designed suspension.

Another tid bit, the first generation MR2 is also rumored to have Lotus designed suspension. I don't know how much measure of truth is in that but I have read that Lotus was part of the prototype phase. I also read that one of the engineers from Lotus worked for Toyota during the developement of the MR2. I haven't found anything that actually says Lotus did the suspension though.

I think alot of this is confusion amoung the masses. They remember seeing a little sporty car with "Suspension by Lotus" badges on it, the Impulse. Then they look at a car and think, "Yeah it was that one!", when it wasn't. It's infecious, being heard and repeated until you get the rumors that are believed.

quote Originally posted by Khw: I don't know what affiliation specifically but the car was the Isuzu Impulse. The first was in 1981 but they wern't sold here in the states until 1983. There were three different suspension tuning levels, standard, Irmscher, and Lotus. Then in 1988 they only offered them with Lotus designed suspension.

Perhaps contributing to the Fiero Lotus myth is the fact that from 1990 to 1993 the Isuzu Impulse was rebadged as a Geo (Chevy) Storm. The Geo version didn't have the Lotus suspension, but people might have assumed that the GM-Lotus connection went back further.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Another confusing issue is the Getrag. It does use a German design but it was never manufactured in Germany for use on GM cars They were manufactured 100% in Muncie Indiana and are referred to as the 282 Muncie transmisson.

GETRAG in Germany has made the basic design and development of the
type 282 transmissions. This was initially for the Detroit Diesel
Allison = DDA Muncie Plant which was later on renamed as New Venture
Gear = NVG Plant in Muncie, Indiana.
During the start of the programme (around 1985) GETRAG has supplied
the gearset, shift componentries and other parts to DDA.
DDA purchased small items and did the assembly and testing of gearboxes.
Bit by bit DDA / NVG has taken over the responsibility for the
manufacturing of the parts so that finally by around 1992
(don´t nail me down to the exact date ) GETRAG completely
stopped to supply parts to NVG.
Since then and thus now we do neither have any more spare parts
available or on hand nor could we produce these parts again.


Gunnar Herre
Senior Manager
Customer Team 6

G E T R A G
Gertriebe- und Zahnradfabrik
Hermann Hagenmeyer GmbH & Cie.

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Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

The more accurate rumor about the 1988 suspension is:
Two Pontiac engineers saw a Lotus in a parking lot and one having a camera laid down on the pavement took a photo of the suspension. After it was "developed"( no digital cameras then), they said "we can do something like that". Probably a more accurate tale than any other.

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The 88 suspension "design" is nothing special- they wouldn't have needed to take pictures of a Lotus to come up with it, lol.

As I understand it and as more than one publication tells it, the 88 improvements were what the engineers wanted to build from the beginning- it simply got nixed in favor of using the cheaper off the shelf Chevette and Citation parts to get the Fiero into production...

Why they spent the $30 million only to kill the car mid-year is beyond me. Typical GM stupidity I guess. But I'm glad they made a few for us to enjoy regardless!

[This message has been edited by FieroFanatic13 (edited 03-22-2009).]

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Perhaps contributing to the Fiero Lotus myth is the fact that from 1990 to 1993 the Isuzu Impulse was rebadged as a Geo (Chevy) Storm. The Geo version didn't have the Lotus suspension, but people might have assumed that the GM-Lotus connection went back further.

Yup, I would say that probably fits in there somewhere to. I didn't mention the Storm because I wasn't sure how many people out there knew it was Isuzu Impulse based. Funny thing to...



I think the fourth gen Camaros look alot like them. We all know the fourth gen Camaros looked kinda like the 89 Fiero prototype because the design was to good to waste. Maybe they used it twice! LOL

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 03-22-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Khw: I don't know what affiliation specifically but the car was the Isuzu Impulse. The first was in 1981 but they wern't sold here in the states until 1983. There were three different suspension tuning levels, standard, Irmscher, and Lotus. Then in 1988 they only offered them with Lotus designed suspension. Another tid bit, the first generation MR2 is also rumored to have Lotus designed suspension. I don't know how much measure of truth is in that but I have read that Lotus was part of the prototype phase. I also read that one of the engineers from Lotus worked for Toyota during the developement of the MR2. I haven't found anything that actually says Lotus did the suspension though. I think alot of this is confusion amoung the masses. They remember seeing a little sporty car with "Suspension by Lotus" badges on it, the Impulse. Then they look at a car and think, "Yeah it was that one!", when it wasn't. It's infecious, being heard and repeated until you get the rumors that are believed.

The affiliation is simple: Lotus makes money "tuning" the suspensions of other manufacturers vehicles. Hence the "Handling by Lotus" badges on the Isuzu Impulse you mentioned. Believe it or not, Lotus "tuned" the suspension on the first generation Kia Sportage Mini SUV too. Scary, but true, lol...

And many believe that the original MR2 was actually supposed to be a new small Lotus model that was cancelled and then taken over by Toyota because they had some kind of engineering contract/agreement with Lotus at the time. There is some evidence of this if I recall but I'd have to look around for it to provide it, lol...

[This message has been edited by FieroFanatic13 (edited 03-23-2009).]

quote Originally posted by FieroFanatic13: The affiliation is simple: Lotus makes money "tuning" the suspensions of other manufacturers vehicles. Hence the "Handling by Lotus" badges on the Isuzu Impulse you mentioned. Believe it or not, Lotus "tuned" the suspension on the first generation Kis Sportage Mini SUV too. Scary, but true, lol... And many believe that the original MR2 was actually supposed to be a new small Lotus model that was cancelled and then taken over by Toyota because they had some kind of engineering contract/agreement with Lotus at the time. There is some evidence of this if I recall but I'd have to look around for it to provide it, lol...

Yeah, I read into it here and there when I was looking for a Fiero or first gen MR2. I got the Fiero.

The Kia Sportage? OMG, WTF! LOL, a freind had one of those things, I never did like it.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 03-22-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Khw: Yeah, I read into it here and there when I was looking for a Fiero or first gen MR2. I got the Fiero. The Kia Sportage? OMG, WTF! LOL, a freind had one of those things, I never did like it.

YES- the Kia Sportage. Sometimes "handling by" just means they got paid to test it out and recommend different springs and shocks- or possibly a different bushing stiffness. LOL

I posted pictures of a prototype 88 cradle, with "cnc engineering" stickers and dates from 86 on it. Notice the rear mounting points.

quote Originally posted by Khw: Yup, I would say that probably fits in there somewhere to. I didn't mention the Storm because I wasn't sure how many people out there knew it was Isuzu Impulse based. Funny thing to... I think the fourth gen Camaros look alot like them. We all know the fourth gen Camaros looked kinda like the 89 Fiero prototype because the design was to good to waste. Maybe they used it twice! LOL

I used to own a 1992 Geo Storm GSi and it was a nice little car. The 1.8L DOHC put out about 140 hp, (same as a Fiero GT) but with a 7600 rpm redline. GM did have a lot to do with the styling, even though it was a rebadged Isuzu, and I would say that some of the design cues from the 1990 Fiero were used on it.

OK let get a few fact in the way here,

Lotus had nothing to do with the 88 Fiero suspension. Nothing!

It is a three link set up that many companies use today.

Lotus also is three companies. The car division, The engineering Division and the FI team. GM owned the car and engineering arm at one time but fount the car not profitable and the engineering division having trouble getting accounts because GM owned it. Lotus did work on the 90's ZR1 engine and some other things like active suspensions but not the Fiero.

Lotus engineering did the tuning on the Izusu nothing more or less and Izusu got permission [paid ] to use the name on the car. Good selling point for a questionable car to that point.

Pontiac did the suspensions on their own and they were proud of it. They hated the Lotus story!
The truth is the 88 suspension was designed by GM and the front suspension was tuned by Porsche engineering. Porsche engineering is like Lotus engineering and contract out to do development and tuning work for other companies. THe new Harly Davidson engines were also done by the same group.

Note the Porsche eater Fiero's with the 2.9 turbo's had a tail light that lit up in a negitive Porsche phase. It was ordered removed when Pontiac contracted Porsche to help on the 88 suspension in 1985. The red car is now a t top fast back and the black one is long gone.

Lotus did so some work of late on the Ecotech and Ecotech turbo. They reworked some of the engines systems and now make 290 HP 340 LBS torque out of 2 liters with the GM stage kit. The F1 team is owned yet by Colin Chapmans family and have refused to sell it. One day the team may return to racing if the family ever parts with it.

FYI the Porsche story was printed in a High Performance Pontiac three or four years ago in a story on one of the engineers. I thing it was Goad? I can't recall right now and I can find the issue in my stacks of HPP. I have it but not sure where. I think the story was done by Don Keefe.

I was shocked to hear the Porsche story but it all made sense once I heard it. With the 2.9 cars and the removal of the tail light and the year it was done it all fit.

Just for the record the story did say Porsche only worked on the front tuning and tuning only and did nothing on the rear suspenion as it is 100% GM.

As for why they put that money in the car and GM killed it. Well The suspension was in the works from the start and Pontiac had to fund it as they could. Chevy wanted the car gone and when production fell to the point the plant was so far under capacity they were avble to get the car killed. Pontiac fought for it as welll as a few others in GM . But Chevy sells more cars so Chevy gets more say to quote John Schnella.

GM did not ok the 30 M so it was money lost by Pontiac. The GM system was very flawed and if now just getting fix but it still needs a lot of repair. Read the new book Why GM matters and while it is not about the Fiero it will show you a system that failed not only the Fiero but Pontiac in the 80's-present.

The longer the sales slump goes on the sooner Pontiac will die. The odds of a Niche car get dimmer with each down month. I give them till 2014 approx. I hope I am wrong .

quote Originally posted by Khw: Yup, I would say that probably fits in there somewhere to. I didn't mention the Storm because I wasn't sure how many people out there knew it was Isuzu Impulse based. Funny thing to... I think the fourth gen Camaros look alot like them. We all know the fourth gen Camaros looked kinda like the 89 Fiero prototype because the design was to good to waste. Maybe they used it twice! LOL

Bought one new in (!, never heard Lotus mentioned by anybody, ever.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: OK let get a few fact in the way here, Lotus had nothing to do with the 88 Fiero suspension. Nothing! It is a three link set up that many companies use today.

That was the point of this post my friend! If you read it all, that would be clear, lol. I was presenting one of the culprits in the creation of the myth.

That being said, I would LOVE it if we could narrow down the magazine issue the Porsche information was in- I'd like to find a copy for my collection.

-Gary

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I used to own a 1992 Geo Storm GSi and it was a nice little car. The 1.8L DOHC put out about 140 hp, (same as a Fiero GT) but with a 7600 rpm redline. GM did have a lot to do with the styling, even though it was a rebadged Isuzu, and I would say that some of the design cues from the 1990 Fiero were used on it.

Gah!, yeah 90 prototype.

Terry Satchel was in charge of designing the '88 suspension and most likely penned some of it himself. He also designed the IMSA frame and suspension. Believe it or not, they are similar.

quote Originally posted by FieroFanatic13: That was the point of this post my friend! If you read it all, that would be clear, lol. I was presenting one of the culprits in the creation of the myth. That being said, I would LOVE it if we could narrow down the magazine issue the Porsche information was in- I'd like to find a copy for my collection. -Gary

The issue I know was in the last 2 to 5 years.

I know I have it but I have about 20 unorganized years of HPP and I am not sure where in the piles it is.
If I can find it I will post it.

I just remember it was one of those question and answer interviews. I just can't recall who it was with. The story was no a Fiero based story. I was suprised to see this nugget and remember the story just not who it was.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: The issue I know was in the last 2 to 5 years. I know I have it but I have about 20 unorganized years of HPP and I am not sure where in the piles it is. If I can find it I will post it. I just remember it was one of those question and answer interviews. I just can't recall who it was with. The story was no a Fiero based story. I was suprised to see this nugget and remember the story just not who it was.

Where do you live? I'd be glad to drop by and help you sort those magazines out! I'm in central Michigan as an FYI.

But seriously, I'd be willing to pay a few dollars for a copy of the article if you can find it.

-Gary

quote Originally posted by FieroFanatic13: Where do you live? I'd be glad to drop by and help you sort those magazines out! I'm in central Michigan as an FYI. But seriously, I'd be willing to pay a few dollars for a copy of the article if you can find it. -Gary

If I can just find it I would be glad to send a copy to you. In fact we should post it to put the Lotus lie to bed.

Give me time to find it. I have a room I keep all my Car stuff in called the race room, I have everything from the usaual Books and die cast to Nascar pit uniform and even a few small parts of of Dale SR, Dale Jr and Harvicks car.
I even made a table out of a old Goodyear indy tire. The room is not large and I have it cramed with a lot of my junk.

I may be wrong but the story may have been a interview with Tom Goad of Pontiac engineering but I am not sure.

Just to bug you I also have every issue of Pontiac Entusiast too. I just like getting the old ones out for info and to brush up on what I have forgotten.

I will let you know if and when I find it.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: If I can just find it I would be glad to send a copy to you. In fact we should post it to put the Lotus lie to bed. Give me time to find it. I have a room I keep all my Car stuff in called the race room, I have everything from the usaual Books and die cast to Nascar pit uniform and even a few small parts of of Dale SR, Dale Jr and Harvicks car. I even made a table out of a old Goodyear indy tire. The room is not large and I have it cramed with a lot of my junk. I may be wrong but the story may have been a interview with Tom Goad of Pontiac engineering but I am not sure. Just to bug you I also have every issue of Pontiac Entusiast too. I just like getting the old ones out for info and to brush up on what I have forgotten. I will let you know if and when I find it.

I need to either pay you to find every Fiero related article in those magazines or have you send me the set, let me find them, and then send them back to you! LOL

Thanks in advance for looking though!

-Gary

I have my buddy who has more issues than me looking too. It may take a while but I will find it.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: I have my buddy who has more issues than me looking too. It may take a while but I will find it.

As an FYI, I am collecting ANYTHING that is '88 Fiero related- road tests, historical articles, GM letters/memos, etc. :

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/074649.html

Just keeping it up front so it's easy to find when HyperV6 finds the article...

So here's another little tidbit regarding cars that have "Handling by Lotus." I actually think it's a neat little car, but each to their own, lol:

quote Kia Soul handling by Lotus The new Kia Soul, on sale in the UK at the beginning of March 2009, is the first Kia to have been developed specifically with UK roads and drivers in mind. Detailed work to create a bespoke ride and handling package for the Soul was completed by Lotus. The car has been secretly on test in the UK during late 2008 and the constant evaluation has been fed back to the factory in Korea as well as the research and development teams in Europe. The work undertaken by Lotus on the ride and handing package has resulted in changes to the overall suspension settings and bump stops. said to make the car more compliant with UK roads. Paul Philpott, Managing Director, Kia Motors UK Ltd., said: 'We firmly believe that customers who have never considered a Kia before will look at Soul and see it as a viable option when it comes to buying a new car. The result of our partnership with Lotus is a more composed ride which we think is much more suitable to what our roads can throw at Soul, and additionally, it is also a more exciting car to drive.' The Soul is described by Kia as one of the most complete cars it has ever produced as it is available with specific suspension packages for Europe, the US and UK. Source : http://www.newcarnet.co.uk (1/20/2009)

[This message has been edited by FieroFanatic13 (edited 03-25-2009).]

BUMP...hoping hyperV6 might come up with the article!

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I used to own a 1992 Geo Storm GSi and it was a nice little car. The 1.8L DOHC put out about 140 hp, (same as a Fiero GT) but with a 7600 rpm redline. GM did have a lot to do with the styling, even though it was a rebadged Isuzu, and I would say that some of the design cues from the 1990 Fiero were used on it.

I have one, a 1990 GSI with an auto The engine is sweet but mine is the 1.6 with 130 hp) The same engine but turbo version is used in Lotus Elans of the 90's. The handling is great and the engine is very nice sounding. It would be a great engine for a Fiero swap

quote Originally posted by FieroFanatic13: BUMP...hoping hyperV6 might come up with the article!

No need to bump if I can find it I will start a new thread.

As of yet I am coming up empty.

I have not spent a lot of time on this as I have had too much other family things going on.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: No need to bump if I can find it I will start a new thread. As of yet I am coming up empty. I have not spent a lot of time on this as I have had too much other family things going on.

Okay- I'll be watching then, and if I hear back from Tom Goad I'll let you know!

-Gary