I have a lower cost idea for you (The ones that CAN make this happen). Why don't you offer a bolt on fender flare/widebody kit for the 98%of us that WILL NOT spent $2000 on a difficult to install mold on fender flare? Now don't say it can't be done. Everyone has seen a picture of a Pantera with them on (aftermarket). And if you say they don't look good then maybe a car hobby isn't for you. They even had bolt on fender flares on the Toyota Celica GTS of the mid '80s. I believe there were others also. Sunbird GT. Hell even the Dodge Dakota. You could make them big or small, rounded or boxy, or a little of both. Pantera let there bolt holes show, and I don't care who you are they looked GOOD. I have stage 2 side panels on my 88 GT. I would say that a nice looking well thought out Widebody/fender flare (rear only) should not be much if any harder to design and make than the stage 2s at a price of say $400 or less. I have seen othe items on this forum from venders that were resonablely priced

P.S. Why don't someone make a sticky on widebody weel and tire setups and combinations? You know like how to overcome the bolt pattern problem, offsets and pretty much all fittments on a widebody. And unless something has changed on this forum in the last 10 months I have been gone there isn't a thread worthy of a sticky on this topic

[This message has been edited by vinny (edited 08-30-2007).]

Yeah, why don't you do that and get back to us with the results.

heres good news, we have bolt on wide fronts available form Fiero warehouse. but the rears no, archies IRMs make it look a little wider though.

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PROJECT 1986 GT Stormbringer

quote Originally posted by FieroWannaBe: heres good news, we have bolt on wide fronts available form Fiero warehouse. but the rears no, archies IRMs make it look a little wider though.

Our WideBody is not an IRM, The IRM body kit is a seperate item all together.

When measured at the centerline of the wheel, our WideBody is 2-7/8" wider per side than a Stock Fiero GT. The optional front fenders, when measured at the centerline of the wheel, are 15/16" wider per side than a Stock Fiero GT.

Archie

I've been thinking about designing fender flares for the stock Fiero for a while. I think it'll work. I've seen the type with the bolt holes around the perimeter, but It'll look so much cleaner with out the holes. When I'm finished with the 355 nose design work I'll look into the flare idea again. Here's the thread that I've been posting my ideas on. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...057460.html#lastpost
x
A sketch from a few months ago.

[This message has been edited by Amida (edited 08-31-2007).]

quote Originally posted by vinny: I have a lower cost idea for you (The ones that CAN make this happen). Why don't you offer a bolt on fender flare/widebody kit for the 98%of us that WILL NOT spent $2000 on a difficult to install mold on fender flare? bahbahbahbahbah.......

Maybe your looking for something like this Acura RSX widebody/fender flares.... Of course using the stock Fiero Bumpers. They are $200 for the Front flares, $200 for the rear flares and another $200 for the side skirts. (not including shipping)

[This message has been edited by FierociousGT (edited 08-31-2007).]

first gen RX7's have a fender flare kit that is like the one in the scetch and its like 400$ and the bumpers are like another 600$. But I don't blame ya on the widebody price I like everything abou it EXCEPT the rocker pannel now if you could use archies original rocker panels with the widebody kit it would look awsome. I love fender flares and plan on puting a set on my 85 RX7 because they look awsome but the fiero doesn't have the lines for it in my opinion but all the fiero needs is to smooth out its existing body lines to make a more modern car.

Looks like Amida understands what I'm talking about. Well Archie, how do you plan on addressing the body lines on the stock Fiero? That part of there design will have to be overcome no matter what design anyone comes up with. If a person doesn't want the bolt holes (in which most factory flares have none) they could take the time to use fiberglass to mold them in thereself . There option. What I'm saying is that there are alot of aftermarket parts available for the Fiero that are alot more reasonably priced than $2000 especially when you concider the amount of work your talking about to finish the widebody conversion. I'm certainly not down anyones product because I know that Archie produces a quality product but you have to concider the car your talking about. The Fiero is an old car that has alot of potencial but not alot of value. Don't get me wrong now I like my 88 GT but I know what the value is. If you want to produce a $2000 kit make on for a newer main stream car still inproduction because like I said 98% will not buy it for a Fiero.

Yea Archie...price your kit at about 20 bucks so EVERY Fiero owner can have one ! That way all our cars will look the same. Jeez if you can't afford it then make one yourself and stop bashing Archie or any other Fiero vendor for that matter. I agree with Archie too that the bolt on wide body kit is tacky. I can't afford one and you know what? I don't care but I don't complain cause I appreciate the tooling and R and D that went into the finished product and too me that justifies the price. .

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Fiero w/ 1998 Supercharged 3.8 V-6 Intercooled
Best ET: 12.20@ 114.90 mph (street tires)
11.74@115 mph (drag radials)

"NO Juice....Just BOOST!"

I am not bashing anyone. I know Archie has a fine bunch of products that I would be proud to own. I knew it would be like this. If it can't be done then it can't be done. I am sorry to have upset you. Cliff if you don't mind delete this thread.

Thanks

I started a similar thread 2 weeks ago as i am going to do it.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/066366.html

[This message has been edited by Australian (edited 08-31-2007).]

He wasn't bashing archie!

and to be clear on the whole "Fiero Aftermarket" I can take a nice little bit of time to bash every small time after market. If you want a successful product then make it good and sell reasonable, but it seems like all parts for a Fiero have to be priced higher than wel i don't know 95% of all aftermarket products. And on the note of EVERY ONES car looking alike based on if you can afford it or not then im afraid your confusing your fiero with a ferrari or a lamborghini. Alot of people love the fiero because it a cheap mid engine car and can I emphasize on the word "Cheap" again if not the ohh well. And the fact that everything bolt on comes with a "idiot fee" which people with none to very little skill have to pay and I think that is wrong. If i want archies rockers I will buy them from archie and save my self the work or I could pay ALOT less and make my own version but that takes time and alot of people don't have the time or the place to do such modifications so they have to pay. Anways lildevil you have the same cookie cutter set up as alot of other people so your a little off on individuality. If some one wants me to pay 600$ for an intake 400$ for headers or 3000$ for a body kit then I mght as well sell my fiero for a camaro and pay 300$ for an intake 200$ for headers and 2000$ for a body kit and guess what it has the same R&D and about the same quallity the only difference is sales tactics and makeing more money in mass sales then in a couple really big sales. Anyways if some one bought one of archies kits or truelo manifolds and changed just the slightest detail and sold it cheaper than either one then hey would have more sales then archie or truelo because they ae satisfying a market in a whole instead of just those who can afford it and thats basic economics and why the aftermarket industry has grown to a multi billion dollar industry and not just little shops skimming off the top.

quote Originally posted by Archie: First of all I think bolt on fender flares on anything except a race car or a truck look tacky..... Archie

Vinny you sound angry at Archie... Any way I agree w/ Archie. You would need modern looking flares, not make the car look older! I wonder if some can Photochop those Acura flares on a notchback.

[This message has been edited by FierociousGT (edited 09-01-2007).]

quote Originally posted by crytical point: ...Anyways if some one bought one of archies kits or truelo manifolds and changed just the slightest detail and sold it cheaper than either one then hey would have more sales then archie or truelo because they ae satisfying a market in a whole instead of just those who can afford it and thats basic economics and why the aftermarket industry has grown to a multi billion dollar industry and not just little shops skimming off the top.

NO, what they would be doing is stealing and they could sell them cheaper because they have no investment in R & D. If they designed their own and could still sell it cheaper then fine, but making a small change to someone elses design and selling it cheaper is pure theivery! I think Archies kit is priced reasonably and so I bought it, period. If you don't think it is worth the price, don't buy it, that is basic economics.
PS you can't argue with results

[This message has been edited by Fierotaz (edited 09-26-2007).]

quote Originally posted by vinny: Looks like Amida understands what I'm talking about. Well Archie, how do you plan on addressing the body lines on the stock Fiero? That part of there design will have to be overcome no matter what design anyone comes up with. If a person doesn't want the bolt holes (in which most factory flares have none) they could take the time to use fiberglass to mold them in thereself . There option. What I'm saying is that there are alot of aftermarket parts available for the Fiero that are alot more reasonably priced than $2000 especially when you concider the amount of work your talking about to finish the widebody conversion. I'm certainly not down anyones product because I know that Archie produces a quality product but you have to concider the car your talking about. The Fiero is an old car that has alot of potencial but not alot of value. Don't get me wrong now I like my 88 GT but I know what the value is. If you want to produce a $2000 kit make on for a newer main stream car still inproduction because like I said 98% will not buy it for a Fiero.

IMHO 2000 is not alot AT ALL for a widebody.its not just the fenders, its the bumper, rockers, and door caps also...have you priced other widebodys on the market??? they're alot more than 2000 dollars AND they require molding of the rear fenders.. like i said 2000 is for the FULL widebody not just the fenders..plus molding with fiberglass really isnt that hard at all, im 16 and i taught myself how to do it--when i was 15-- and did a ton of it on my finale i built and it looked good and i got alot of compliments on it at the fierowarehouse swap meet...also sure the fiero doesnt have alot of value but that just gives you more money to put into it..i mean with newer cars people are paying 8000 for the car and then another 3000-5000 for a widebody..with a fiero you can get the car for next to nothing--as far as car prices go-- and then still have money to do things like put a widebody on it without using up all the money youve saved..you dont mod a car as an investment...that normally only works with collectors, kitcars, or cars that you have bought fixed and resold by youself...

-Kaleb Z.

when thinking about the Acura flares, you need to keep in mind what Archie said about the cost vs. the expected number of sales. Can you imagine the number of potential sales of acura parts to the number of potential sales of fiero parts ? the acura parts probably out-sell the fiero parts by about a zillion to 1 ! no wonder they're only $200 ....

^^^^^^^^abosolutely right how many times a day do you see an acura vs how many times a day you see a fiero--the last fiero i saw other than mine was on a trip to florida 2 months ago-..i saw an acura rsx yesterday ..when you have a bigger market prices go down

[This message has been edited by Kaleb (edited 09-01-2007).]

around here you can hear the ricers coming b4 you can see them - just imagine what about 500 bees in a coffee can sound like ....and those body kits they use are sooooooooo ugly ......

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 09-01-2007).]

Fiero enthusiasts are fortunate to have people who are passionate enough about Fieros to invest their time & resources into designing new products in such a limited, price sensitive, niche market. My sense it that those who are in the Fiero business are probably more concerned with recouping their costs & making enough to keep the business going.

Rob
Fiero Interior Conversions
FieroVation
Seattle, WA. USA

Not to be negative, but would you really want just a bolt on fender flare type kit ?!?

IMO at the very least i think the flares would have to be molded in as to not look stuck on, but to each his own. If that works for you then go for it.

Of course the kit archie made is not for everyone. Otherwise everybody would have one. Absolutely no way could that kit be priced any cheaper than it is considering the labor and the materials involved.

$2,000 is nothing compared to the look it gives the car. Yes there is more costs and labor involved to finish the kit, but darn folks the days of something for nothing are gone.

If you think $2k for a widebody kit is too much, then don't buy it, and make your own. I don't think some people have any clue as to the time and work involved in bringing the kits to production.

If it was so easy, more people would just do it themselves.

[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 09-01-2007).]

quote Originally posted by crytical point: He wasn't bashing archie! and to be clear on the whole "Fiero Aftermarket" I can take a nice little bit of time to bash every small time after market. If you want a successful product then make it good and sell reasonable, but it seems like all parts for a Fiero have to be priced higher than wel i don't know 95% of all aftermarket products. And on the note of EVERY ONES car looking alike based on if you can afford it or not then im afraid your confusing your fiero with a ferrari or a lamborghini. Alot of people love the fiero because it a cheap mid engine car and can I emphasize on the word "Cheap" again if not the ohh well. And the fact that everything bolt on comes with a "idiot fee" which people with none to very little skill have to pay and I think that is wrong. If i want archies rockers I will buy them from archie and save my self the work or I could pay ALOT less and make my own version but that takes time and alot of people don't have the time or the place to do such modifications so they have to pay. Anways lildevil you have the same cookie cutter set up as alot of other people so your a little off on individuality. If some one wants me to pay 600$ for an intake 400$ for headers or 3000$ for a body kit then I mght as well sell my fiero for a camaro and pay 300$ for an intake 200$ for headers and 2000$ for a body kit and guess what it has the same R&D and about the same quallity the only difference is sales tactics and makeing more money in mass sales then in a couple really big sales. Anyways if some one bought one of archies kits or truelo manifolds and changed just the slightest detail and sold it cheaper than either one then hey would have more sales then archie or truelo because they ae satisfying a market in a whole instead of just those who can afford it and thats basic economics and why the aftermarket industry has grown to a multi billion dollar industry and not just little shops skimming off the top.

I see alot of this at my job. I paint cars. I have people ALL the time come in and think that i should paint there car cheaper then everyone else jus because I own a Fiero and they do too. Noone on here...jus been people off the street so far. You have to understand that you pay for what you get usually. I am sure that Archie or anyother vendor could lower their prices but i am certain the quality will suffer. And who knows....3 0r 4 years down the road maybe his prices will drop when demand lessens abit or another vendor releases some compeitition. And you saying my car is cookie cutter is off base. I can't afford this alot of stuff so I LEARNED to do it myself. There are many things on my car that are UNIQUE to my car. Does everyone on here understand that the Fiero market is real tiny compared to say the Camaro market you brought up? The reason there parts are so cheap is because they can mass produce the parts (which costs money) and not worry about them sitting on the self (which also costs money). Plus Archies and most other Fiero vendor parts handmade...not by machine.

[This message has been edited by lildevil (edited 09-01-2007).]

As with any wide body; cheap stick-ons, knock-offs, or expensive kits, you'll need rims and tires to match, which isn't factored in most peoples minds. In most cases, the rims and tires along will cost more that a standard Fiero or sticky fender add ons. Let us not forget; many companies DO NOT HAVE OUR 5X100 BOLT PATTERN IN WIDE WIDTHS. At best your looking at 8.5 to 9" on adverage which isn't any wider than the stock rear clip.

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"Anyone can make a copy of something, it may look good but it never is the real car. Make something from your imagination, something unique, something nobody has, anything is possible and, ideas can be a reality and Archie and the Crew and make your Dreams into a reality."

quote Originally posted by lildevil: I see alot of this at my job. I paint cars. I have people ALL the time come in and think that i should paint there car cheaper then everyone else jus because I own a Fiero and they do too. Noone on here...jus been people off the street so far. You have to understand that you pay for what you get usually. I am sure that Archie or anyother vendor could lower their prices but i am certain the quality will suffer. And who knows....3 0r 4 years down the road maybe his prices will drop when demand lessens abit or another vendor releases some compeitition. And you saying my car is cookie cutter is off base. I can't afford this alot of stuff so I LEARNED to do it myself. There are many things on my car that are UNIQUE to my car. Does everyone on here understand that the Fiero market is real tiny compared to say the Camaro market you brought up? The reason there parts are so cheap is because they can mass produce the parts (which costs money) and not worry about them sitting on the self (which also costs money). Plus Archies and most other Fiero vendor parts handmade...not by machine.

To add to that lildevil... plus its a freakin camaro!! i mean how many camaros do you see driving down the streets everyday and everyone of of the drivers driving em thinks theirs is so much better than the one right down the street thats exactly like theirs--i'll have to admit there are some cool lookin camaros but i would rather have a fiero w/out all that than a camaro with cuz everyone still knows its "just a camaro" i have people all the time askin me what my car is and i love it and then i have people who know what it is and get excited when they see it and thats awesome too--...Fieros are great cuz they arent around anywhere. There are 3 fieros in my town one being mine and two others i've only seen once and that was at a show so i really dont even know if theyre in my town...if you want a camaro to afford to do all that stuff than get a camaro, but if your driving a fiero because you love fieros like most on the forum and not just to put a widebody on, why do you care if the widebody is expensive.if you want one then do some extra work, get the money and buy one if you dont think its worth the money then dont do extra work, dont buy one and dont complain about the cost its as simple as that

Look everyone is getting mad about nothing. I'm not mad at Archie or anyone. I agree with Archie and others about the R&D on developing a new product. All I'm saying is that maybe a lower cost bolt on could be an option for some. I could go out and buy a Widebody kit for my car as well as most on this forum could for 2 or 3 thousand. Then most would have to pay a bodyshop 2 or 3 thousand for the installation and paint (If they would even do it for you). Oh, then what about the wheels and tires? Good God, about 2 grand or more. All I'm asking is what about a smaller easier to install kit?. Also, as Madcurl stated, What about the wheel problem. That seems to be the real problem. I started a widebody a while back and had it 50-75% complete. It was looking good so I started looking at wheel tire combos and realized I would have a unrealistic amount of money tied up in them so I scraped the project. Fiberglass supples are very cheap but the wheels were not.

I knew I shouldn't have started this thread because there would be some that would jump out there all offended right from the get go.

Archie, I'm not saying your product of a true widebody kit wouldn't sell, but only to a few. As an option you or someone else may offer a cheaper route for the ones who can't justify $2000.

Vinny

quote Originally posted by vinny: All I'm asking is what about a smaller easier to install kit?. Vinny

Actually Vinny, the Rival kit isn't that hard to install. The rear bumper, front fenders, and widebody rockers are a given; the door panel and fender hips are not that hard of a task due to the fact that Archie has taken alot of pics demonstrating just like Mr. Mike's CD demonstration in installing his leather seats.

In answering your question, "Easier to install" I'd would pull-in your area's fiberglass talent during the build, review Archie's tape, or wait until the second or third person starts a build-up thread. In the meantime save up monies for the kit and for the rims.

Wow, Vinny, you got ballslapped pretty hard for trying to take the cheese out of Archie's hand. Try an icepack, it will help with the swelling.

Personally I don't feel the idea is a bad one, it could use some real life R&D instead of spitballing, but I think a more moderate option to a true widebody kt for people who want to step up to a larger wheel, without going extreme, would be an attractive option on the market. As was state, Fiero warehouse offers a widened front fender, I think that paired with a bond on rear fender flare a la the 1996 Corvett Grand Sport would look great, and would take care of "barely" covering some much meatier tread.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Our WideBody is not an IRM, The IRM body kit is a seperate item all together. When measured at the centerline of the wheel, our WideBody is 2-7/8" wider per side than a Stock Fiero GT. The optional front fenders, when measured at the centerline of the wheel, are 15/16" wider per side than a Stock Fiero GT. Archie

opps, my mistake i know what you mean, i didn't mean the irm widebody panels, i was referring to the integrated rockers, i guess irm came out of my finger tips (wrong abbreviation). I know your wide body is its own design.

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: As was state, Fiero warehouse offers a widened front fender, I think that paired with a bond on rear fender flare a la the 1996 Corvett Grand Sport would look great, and would take care of "barely" covering some much meatier tread.

That's an "option" but it worsened Vinny's condition in the front and at the rear bumper. He would need to widen out the rear bumper to cover the meatier rear tires.

I don't think you got the feel for what I was trying to describe with the Grand Sport Corvette example. What you show is something molded in. What Vinny is describing if I understand him correctly, is someting that bonds or bolts on. I think bonding on would be sufficient, 3M double sided adhesive holds on sailpanels quite well, why not wheel arches? I've actually pondered such a set up when I still was thinking about doing another Fiero, and I think it could look good,and give a Fiero owner to go to a bigger staggered wheel set without having to invest in huge 20's or 22's. I think 19's can fill up a Fiero fender quite well, in fact too well, and a small 1" wider fender flare could be helpful in making that legal, as well as giving it just a slightly badass custom look without changing the classic Fiero lines like a full body kit does.

The issues with that idea is; the tire sticks out at the bottom making it illegal. A mud flap isn't too ugly but....

ok I guess this is what you are looking for.... but forget the $400 price tag... It's not realistic. Maybe $1000 which is realistic for flares. What do you guys & gals think? They look real good IMO.









1995 Lotus Esprit GT1
http://www.LotusEspritGT1.com/

[This message has been edited by FierociousGT (edited 09-03-2007).]

That's more like what I had in mind. No bondo, no bolt holes, just a nice taylored fit with a small rubber seal to cover the seam. Hmmm...carbon fiber would look pretty nice there.

Rob
Fiero Interior Conversions
FieroVation
Seattle, WA. USA.

quote Originally posted by FierociousGT: ok I guess this is what you are looking for.... but forget the $400 price tag... It's not realistic. Maybe $1000 which is realistic for flares. What do you guys & gals think? They look real good IMO. 1995 Lotus Esprit GT1 http://www.LotusEspritGT1.com/

that does make that esprit look alot more aggresive...i'd prolly mold em if it were me but now i do see what you mean... somthing that sort of flows but still sticks on--as opposed to the universal looking flares--

[This message has been edited by Kaleb (edited 09-03-2007).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: The issues with that idea is; the tire sticks out at the bottom making it illegal. A mud flap isn't too ugly but....

Say what? The tire has to stick out at the bottom, or the car is going to have a hard time rolling down the road. Tires are pretty much necessary for that.

Maybe with your experience with oversized tires, you have some insight on vehicle code that I don't share? Maybe you can illuminate.

Well maybe $400 is unrealistic but that is exactly what I'm talking about. Super easy to install yourself. If they came in a nice black jell coat then you have the option of leaving them black. I don't care who you are that looks tough. Thank you for the pictures.

Vinny

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: Say what? The tire has to stick out at the bottom, or the car is going to have a hard time rolling down the road. Tires are pretty much necessary for that. Maybe with your experience with oversized tires, you have some insight on vehicle code that I don't share? Maybe you can illuminate.

--if i understand--he's saying that the tire cant stick out past the car, the whole reason for widebodys, it violates some code--though im not sure thats the case in all states...-- like alabama

[This message has been edited by Kaleb (edited 09-03-2007).]

quote Originally posted by vinny: Well maybe $400 is unrealistic but that is exactly what I'm talking about. Super easy to install yourself. If they came in a nice black jell coat then you have the option of leaving them black. I don't care who you are that looks tough. Thank you for the pictures. Vinny

How is this idea going Vinny? Have you considered talking with other Fiero fiberglass mfgs to see if they are interested in producing this?

Example:
Fiero Warehouse http://www.fierowarehouse.com/
Fieros Europe http://www.fieros.eu/
Norm's Fiberglass http://www.normsfiberglass.com/
PISA - The Fiero HQ http://pisafierohq.com/
Driven Visions http://www.drivenvisions.com

I just bought a set of fender flares that i will be installing on my holidays I will modify them a bit.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...em=110166857692&rd=1
more cars
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/066366.html