quote Originally posted by blackrams: This assumes you had lights on your dolly. Ron

It had lights before they were crushed under the weight of a tractor-trailer luckily I got the insurance and returned it flattened to U-Haul at no extra charge. Still I don't like Tow dollys. The lights are over the wheels and there is 10 feet or more of car behind that.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Hauled a Pontiac Ventura on a dolly--Lafayette La to San Angelo Tex about 10 years ago. No problems, but I wouldn't want to do it again. Had hades backing it up behind the big U-haul truck I was pulling it with.

Don,
I feel I'm pretty proficient at backing trailers and I learned the very first time I tried to never (again) back a car dolly with a car on it. I was lucky to get it moved aft 5 feet before I lost control of it. You're a braver man than I if you back a loaded dolly.

Ron

Never said I was successfull at it--or if I backed it very far. Only way I was even partially successful was to open the back door of the Uhaul and look back thru the cargo area. It was not fun.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Never said I was successfull at it--or if I backed it very far. Only way I was even partially successful was to open the back door of the Uhaul and look back thru the cargo area. It was not fun.

It's not your fault...it's nearly impossible to back a tow dolly because it has two pivots.

[This message has been edited by Chris Hodson (edited 08-04-2008).]

Get this and these and make this.

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 08-04-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Get this and these and make this.

I saw a version of that not too long ago traveling north on the Gene Snyder By Pass around Louisville. It's not a bad concept, it all depends on how you like to travel I guess.

Ron

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Get this and these and make this.

I saw one converted like that. I seriously started looking for a bus. I figured you could convert the front half into an RV and drive the Fiero right into the back. With vertical doors you wouldn't have to climb out through the sunroof. I may still do that someday.

I would rather make it so you can drive right in also. I would want my center of gravity as low as possible.

quote Originally posted by Chris Hodson: I would rather make it so you can drive right in also. I would want my center of gravity as low as possible.

I was going to make the CG argument but got lazy.

quote Originally posted by FieroBrad87: I was going to make the CG argument but got lazy.

Well, we are talking about a two ton vehicle here, I guess you could install airbags and lower it.

Ron

http://www.parkerchassis.com/shop/Foolbus.htm

I've seen many of these School Bus / Haulers at campgrounds at major bike events like Sturgis and Daytona.
Some were done very well, kind'a the original "toy hauler" camper trailers!

[This message has been edited by h.d.fire (edited 08-05-2008).]

Adding my 2 cents.

weight distributing hitches are good. The dual cams ones work great. They not only help with sway but they preload the trailer for better turning. The cam on the side you are turning to is smaller then the one you ride up on on the other side. Thus the trailer is kind of tilted in the direction of the turn.

Tung weight should be on the order of 10% of the trailer weight thus making then the front heavier the the rear to preventing the tail wagging the dog effect.

Make sure you have the right size hitch for the load. I.E. class 4 or so. If tung weight approaches 400 or heigher the the weight distributing hitches are somewhat necessary.

On one of the photo the safety chains were shown. It is better to cross the chaims under the tung. This will tend to help it from digging into the road bed if you have a ball or hitch failure. the crossed chains will tend to carry the trailer tung while you try to stop.

If these were mentioned already then good. If not then, hope it helps.

This is a good tread with excellent info.

[This message has been edited by DandRauto (edited 08-06-2008).]

You know, I just thought of one more very important thing.

When was the last time you checked your trailer hitch ball for cracks, damage and just plain old age/metal fatigue?

I've actually lost a tow dolly with a large vehicle on it due to the ball snapping off at the shank. Yes, it was an older ball but didn't have any apparent damage. It was just old and tired I guess. Anyway, when the tongue of that dolly came up from behind and reached the end of the safety chains, then it fell to the asphalt (I think), bounced back up, impacted the rear of my pick up (underneith), sending it up into the air, needless to say, it scared the crap out of me.

So, yeah, go check your balls.

No, not those, the ones you trailer with.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 08-06-2008).]

quote Originally posted by blackrams: So, yeah, go check your balls. No, not those, the ones you trailer with. Ron

Should I grease my balls? In the beginning it was all shiney, and now of course it's rusty and nasty looking. I suppose it's a limited life item and should be replaced periodically as you suggest, but I wonder if some lube wouldn't help? (Get your minds out the gutter)

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Should I grease my balls? In the beginning it was all shiney, and now of course it's rusty and nasty looking. I suppose it's a limited life item and should be replaced periodically as you suggest, but I wonder if some lube wouldn't help? (Get your minds out the gutter)

I've seen folks put grease on the trailer hitch balls in the past. I can't honestly say it's good or bad, though I'd suggest a little dab would be a good thing. The only problem I've ever seen with doing it is that you'll almost always end up with some grease on your pants, shoes or somewhere destined to get you yelled at by your wife. It's one of those things, where grease is, we go with blinders on.

I rountinely apply a little grease to the ball hitch of my gooseneck, it let's me know when it's dry, I hear it creaking and squealing in low mph turns. Annoying as hell.

Ron

Here is one on ebay in town. It was built for a race car, has a 4x8 tool/generator/compressor room on the front, tire rack, winch, surge brakes, and air plumbed to the rear of the trailer. I do not like it due to the axles being too far forward for a fiero application unless you wanted to always load it rear first. The front part is also too tall and would be a huge air drag.

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: Seriously, trailer safety is important. The straps with safety clasps on the hooks are worth their weight in gold. I have many friends who have very expensive cars that have recommended the link below for high quality tiedowns. I have bought several different styles from this company and will vouch for the quality. They are a little pricier than most, but worth it to me. http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/ Fred

Here's mine. I use Mac's Through-the-Wheel Straps

quote Originally posted by fourpoint9: Here's mine. I use Mac's Through-the-Wheel Straps

I like that, it appears a lot easier to hook that up than crawling under the trailer to hook on the frame.

quote Originally posted by fourpoint9: Here's mine. I use Mac's Through-the-Wheel Straps

Yeah, I've used a set similar to those on steel wheels, haven't tried them on alloys yet, I'm a little concerned about using them on soft metals. In that most of the cars I transport aren't mine, I really don't want to find out the hard way that they rub the finish on someone else's wheels. They are much faster and easier to put on and seem to be very secure. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking them, I'm just a little afraid to use them on some of the cars/wheels I haul.

As my ole Pappy used to say, you just bought something you won't like eating.

Ron

They use a soft fleece padded cover that velcros over the straps.

There are some interesting replies in this thread. Some good, some I question. Obviously all have worked for people or they wouldn't have posted them, but I'll have to say that I don't agree with some of them.

First off, where to tie down on the car?

Before getting too far into that, I ALWAYS back the car on the trailer with a Fiero. Front engine cars I drive on, but rear/mid engine I back on. Others do it differently and if you can properly manage your tongue weight, that's good for you, but I find it easier to back it on. Since I winch all my cars on anyway, it doesn't really make any difference to me if they come nose first or tail first.

I've hauled Fieros many thousands of miles by tieing them down in front to the front sway bar. This is a very solid location, it's round and you won't tear your axle strap (or cut it), and if you pull the sway bar mount bolts out you're really hauling a piece of crap and need to get creative anyway. Now I tie down to the front control arms with an axle strap through the hole that is just inside of the front springs and in between the frame where the front lower control arm bolt is.

Why did I change? Well, I like to have the car sitting on it's suspension, not sucked down solid. If you hit a hard enough bump and it's tied down with one of those in frame hooks, it CAN concievable pop out of there, especially if you use hooks on your ratchet straps that don't have a safety lock (which you should use anyway).

I also changed after an incident with litespd's car taking it to the WOW show at Omaha. I didn't have a problem with the sway bar giving way, but I was using a set of these rings for my ETrack:



I used one on each side, with a hook to attach it directly to the axle strap over the sway bar. I then pull the car back with the ratchet straps at the rear and pull everything tight. This had worked for me for several years and I never had a failuer. In THIS case, though, where the strap goes through the ETrack attach point, the strap was cut by the ETrack bracket, the car rolled to the rear, and it left a not so beauty mark on the car.

I made my own ETrack mounts that are more like this one



And also bought a set like this. I know use the axle straps around the control arms and into a set of these as well as a second set of straps that goes around the sway bar and stays just a little loose. If there is a failure of the primary, the secondary will only let the car move an inch or two before snubbing it up.

On the rear, I use in floor D rings that are rated at 10,000#. The ratchet straps go there and hook to axle straps that, again, go through the lower control arms. For my secondary on the rear side, I use a 10,000# winch to pull the cars into the enclosed trailer and I just leave it attached and slightly snug. With this setup, I can lose all or any of the straps and the vehicle will stay secure.

I have tied down to the wheels in certain vehicles, not Fieros, and the only problems I see with that are that you might mar the wheels with the straps. if you mount low you COULD rotate the tire and the straps could become loose, and you have no secondary method of control (but could have if you put some thought into it).

A few thoughts on ETrack. First, most of it is too light and most I've seen is not mounted properly. I put mine down and have a match drilled plate on the bottom through every other hole with 1/4" bolts. I have no doubt the ETrack will stay in place BUT I still have some of my cutouts that bend slightly and I don't like that. I may go back to D Rings instead of ETrack because of this, unless I can find some heavier duty ETrack. I really like the convenience of the ETrack, but not at the trade-off of strength.

I haul in a 36' enclosed gooseneck. I'm sure that the anti sway bars and all the other goodies are nice. I've even used some on earlier trailers (and I've pulled a LOT of trailers, from little 8' garden trailers to 55' flatbeds on my semi) and anyone that's never pulled a gooseneck and finally does use one will wonder why they ever pulled anything else. There is no sway. There is no problems with wind. The weight is distributed to the towing vehicle at the axle where it should be. I know, some of you run Blazers, Suburbans, Broncos, etc, and can't use a gooseneck. All I have to say about that is it "sucks to be you". (J/K, but I use to do that too and will never go back)

Currently my gooseneck is an older S&S trailer that is set up to go racing with. It has a 5.0KW genset, an air compressor with air plumbed to the rear on a reel, cabinets, a roll toolbox, 110V flourescent lighting, load lighting, and electric tailgate/ramp. I've added some things to it like a step for the walk in door, a DVD player, radio, and air conditioning. We used all of them while sitting at the track at Hastings last week waiting for the rain to quit. Are they luxuries? Absolutely. But once you have them you will wonder what you did without them.

I tow with my '99 2500 Silverado with a 6.0L. It gets crappy gas mileage (so just STFU Blackrams, I know, I know) but will pass anything except a gas station. Weight wise, the truck handles the trailer great and at 36' with the gooseneck I can turn it much shorter than I could my 18' open bumper pull (don't forget that 8' of the 36' IS the gooseneck). With the Finale Roadster in the trailer, full fuel in the generator and the truck, and no people in the vehicle it weighs 17,000 pounds so it's a substantial amount of weight but until someone wants to donate the money for a new S&S all aluminum trailer, I'll just have to get by.

John Stricker

Never owned a trailer with the Etrack system so I can't comment on that. I have just finished welding an additional 8 D rings onto my trailer. These are Fiero specific as to the locations, I own and haul more Fiero than anything else. As far as tying down the car, I agree with John Stricker on using the control arms. I also prefer to allow the vehicle's suspension to work while in transport. I've been forced to tie down cars before where I used a frame component. Hit a good sized pot hole and found one or two of the tie downs free/unhooked in the past. Some vehicles are a real test in trying to secure. The 05 GTO I just hauled last weekend was simple to secure on the front. But, the rear was a real pain in the arse. I ended up using wheel straps. Didn't like it but, that was the only reasonable option.

BTW John, I'm not real good with the internet acronyms. What are you saying? STFU

Ron

quote Originally posted by blackrams: As far as tying down the car, I agree with John Stricker on using the control arms. I also prefer to allow the vehicle's suspension to work while in transport. I've been forced to tie down cars before where I used a frame component. Hit a good sized pot hole and found one or two of the tie downs free/unhooked in the past.

I agree too that I would rather let the car bounce than to try and hold it down to the trailer. I will generally tie onto the control arms. But are wheel straps a bad thing? I like the idea of being able to just strap onto the wheel and not crawl under the car to hook on.

Has anyone used basket tire straps? They seem to work good when I used them on a dolly from U-haul. Didn't drive far though.

I've used them and I think they're fine given two conditions. First, the 'basket' fits the tire properly (many don't fit wide tires correctly) and second, your tie down hooks are in the proper place, as they are in the link to the picture you posted.



John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Has anyone used basket tire straps? They seem to work good when I used them on a dolly from U-haul. Didn't drive far though.

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Has anyone used basket tire straps? They seem to work good when I used them on a dolly from U-haul. Didn't drive far though.

Yep, I've got a set of those and they are very good IMO. But, you must have tie down points in the right spots to use them. They work great on dollies, we know where the wheels are going to be sitting. For my application, there are too many unknowns. Today I might haul one Fiero and one Jeep Liberty, tomorrow, it might be a GTO and a Civic, different wheel bases make it tough to have the tie downs where you need them. That's where John's Etrack is handy but, as John said, it has it's issues also.

Ron

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Depending on your insurance, I'll just about bet that what your agent implied is not what you're thinking. I was told the same thing on my last gooseneck, "the trailer is covered as long as it's coupled to your insured tow vehicle". What I found out was any damage caused by the trailer was covered but damage to the actual trailer was not covered. I'd check to be sure you got the correct information. Ron

Actually, what I was thinking is exactly what you said, "any damage caused by the trailer was covered but damage to the actual trailer was not covered. "

I was more concerned that if my trailer somehow damaged someone's vehicle my insurance would not pay based on the trailer being an uninsured vehicle not on my policy.

My trailer is a simple steel open flatbed, not much can happen to damage it. If I had a fancy enclosed trailer, I would probably get a separate policy for damage to it.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Actually, what I was thinking is exactly what you said, "any damage caused by the trailer was covered but damage to the actual trailer was not covered. " I was more concerned that if my trailer somehow damaged someone's vehicle my insurance would not pay based on the trailer being an uninsured vehicle not on my policy. My trailer is a simple steel open flatbed, not much can happen to damage it. If I had a fancy enclosed trailer, I would probably get a separate policy for damage to it.

Glad I said, "just about bet".

Now that we understand your vehicle and trailer insurance policy, wasn't that your car parked beside my trailer at the 25th Anniversary? Well, now I've got the big ole scratch running the length of my trailer. Probably gonna need to be totally repainted.

Ron

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Yep, I've got a set of those and they are very good IMO. But, you must have tie down points in the right spots to use them. They work great on dollies, we know where the wheels are going to be sitting. For my application, there are too many unknowns. Today I might haul one Fiero and one Jeep Liberty, tomorrow, it might be a GTO and a Civic, different wheel bases make it tough to have the tie downs where you need them. That's where John's Etrack is handy but, as John said, it has it's issues also. Ron

How about



http://www.cargogear.com/St...s.asp?find=COTRACK3S
Maximum load: 500 lbs. per load lock so a car with 8 load locks can weigh up to 4000 lbs. I know they have larger, heavier ones for bigger vehicles, like in cargo planes.

With the car strapped down by the frame and being solid to the trailer, the trailers suspension takes over.
I have hit some pretty nasty pot holes (living here in the buckeye state) and the trailer takes the hit no problem.

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Factory Stock…
The way God intended it to be.

quote Originally posted by ohioindy: With the car strapped down by the frame and being solid to the trailer, the trailers suspension takes over. I have hit some pretty nasty pot holes (living here in the buckeye state) and the trailer takes the hit no problem.

I'd never say you were wrong strapping your car down in the way you're describing, I have in the past done it this way and may do so again depending on the circumstances. In the method you're describing, you really need to cinch the car chassis down pretty tight to ensure the car's suspension doesn't have any movement when hitting those horrendous Ohio pot holes. If the car isn't strapped down compressing the car suspension, then the concern is that when you hit that pot hole, the car will compress the suspensin and lose the tie down or snap back up and break the tie down. It's always possible.

By applying the tie downs to the tires, wheels, or control arms, both the trailer and car's suspension are working in concert. I prefer this method but, what ever works for the individual car owner. Happy Fiero trailering.

Ron

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Jonathan? Jonathan? Where'd he go? Ron

I'm still here, sorry I missed your earlier post. Send me an estimate for your trailer paint job and I'll take care of it, (I have a shredder that I need to break in).

TTT

If you use grease, Jonathan, just a small dab on top is all you really need. I do grease the one on my gooseneck ball in the truck, but none of the bumper pull balls get any grease.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Should I grease my balls? In the beginning it was all shiney, and now of course it's rusty and nasty looking. I suppose it's a limited life item and should be replaced periodically as you suggest, but I wonder if some lube wouldn't help? (Get your minds out the gutter)

A Ford Expedition is not a bad tow vehicle and has reasonable mileage when towing.

quote Originally posted by PrettyPhysicist87GT: thats great to know. now all i need is a vehicle to pull the trailer that gets decent gas mileage (maybe 20 mpg?) ... any suggestions? (oh, and i'm a little girl - 5 feet tall - so i'd need something that wouldn't require a step ladder to get into ...

Bump…by request…

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Factory Stock
The way God intended it to be.