So my dad finally got himself a C6 corvette. I'm happy for him being able to realize a dream. But being at the dealer, seeing a bunch of nice cars, including a yellow C5 Z06, made me think. I know what my father keeps telling me makes some sense: "get the fiero running and then save up for something that will be more fun". The next step from a Fiero seems to be a C4 Vette (I'd love a C5 but the C4 can be had for a lot less, so that's why it's the next logical step in my opinion), but how do they compare (84-87 fiero vs c5 vette)? I know the C4 has more power and better brakes, but other than that (those things can be taken care of for the fiero anyway)? Has anyone here driven both?

It depends on what you want to spend. The fiero can be modified to run fast and handle as well as the Corvette if not better, and it will have a unique look. A Corvette will be a great car but it can also be rather me too. It depends on the price of the Corvettes you are looking at and how much wrench time you want to put into the Fiero. If you are looking at a 15k + Corvette that's a nice budget to fix up a Fiero

C-4's rattle big time. Drive one down a rough road and watch the rear hatch sqirm all over the place - there is a lot of flex in the car. They are overweight and underpowered, hard to get in and out of, and ride quality is horrendous. Parts are overpriced.

Drop a V-8 in your Fiero, upgrade the suspension and brakes a tad, and enjoy a much better car!

I have had a C3, C4, C5, and driven several C6's
and I have had a fiero threw all of them. does that tell you somthing.
granted I do like the C5 and C6 but I will never own another C4. you think working on a fiero is a PIA and expencive try a corvette.
take the price you think the part should sell for and add 1/2 again and you might be close.
if I were ever to buy another one it would be the C5 or C6
you can find great deals on the C5 and have a way better car than the C4.

I owned a C4 for a while. Owning a Corvette was a dream of mine since I was a little kid.....and it was spoiled by the fact that I had already owned a Fiero when I got it. When I got rid of it, I went back to a Fiero. I will never be unfaithful again.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: .. They are overweight and underpowered, hard to get in and out of, ... Parts are overpriced. Drop a V-8 in your Fiero, upgrade the suspension and brakes a tad, and enjoy a much better car!

Ditto to this. Or get a cheap C5 which is ten times better than both but still you will spend more and look like everyone else.

quote Originally posted by Macs86GT: It depends on what you want to spend.

as always. but let's only consider the condition of the vehicle, and let's keep to discussing cars which are in relatively good condition (almost any car with good shocks is a better ride than almost any car with shot shocks).

I have yet to find a "cheap" C5, but I'll keep my eyes open

I purchased my 86 Vette for my 21st birthday for $6K. It had 119K on it and was the 4+3 manual car. I loved that car and upgraded the TPI 350 with a TPIS Miniram 406 and really had some fun. Switching back and forth you will feel how much larger and heavier the Vette is, but it had great seats, good brakes and I loved the Targa.
I sold it for $4800 (after returning it to stock with 180K on the car) after 6 years to build a V8 fiero.

So now I have an 88 Fiero, 350 SBC with Ramjet PFI, 5 speed, 12" vette rotors, vette seats.... all in a package that is 300 lbs lighter... still dreaming about the targa though.

For the right $$$ I would pick up a C4 as a driver, but my SBC fiero would probably get more seat time.

Fellas,

I bought my '85 Vette on my 26th birthday during the time I had my Ferrari. I drove it an never warmed up to it. The hood seemed to stretch into the next county. Consequently, I could never figure out how to correctly attack a corner. It was sold and I never reconsidered selling it. Too expensive and it is NOT a chick magnet, unless I wore my razor blade necklace. Just kidding. My Fiero is everything the Vette is, maybe more since I can work on it myself and modify any shortcomings I see.

Cordially,
Kevin

[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 09-09-2008).]

C4 ZR1 FTW!

C4's are everywhere, my personal opinion would be to keep the Fiero, which you hardly ever see anywhere...

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: C-4's rattle big time. Drive one down a rough road and watch the rear hatch sqirm all over the place - there is a lot of flex in the car. They are overweight and underpowered, hard to get in and out of, and ride quality is horrendous. Parts are overpriced. Drop a V-8 in your Fiero, upgrade the suspension and brakes a tad, and enjoy a much better car!

Get real...overweight and underpowered? They have 2-3 times the power of the Fiero at a 10-20% weight disadvantage. They are significantly faster than the Fiero in every way, and certain models easily outhandle the Fiero, such as the 84 or early Z51 cars.

If you're going to compare, go apples to apples...Dropping a V8 into a fiero, along with suspension and brakes and you're spending 10k on the Fiero, at least for a similar 350sbc engine to that in a vette. 10k will buy a nice later Lt1 car, that already has better suspension, brakes, etc.

I've had both - I love both, but the vette is a nicer car, and a faster car. It is not as unique, but does get more attention (and respect from females). I've never thought there was a terrible amount of flex in the car (you're mentioning hatch, so I assume coupe), though it does have a targa roof, so with it out, it will be more flex'd than a solid/sunroof Fiero. The convertible has extra x bracing to firm up for the loss of roof. They are hard to get in/out of compared to the Fiero, though if you're not huge, it's just part of the package and not a big deal.

84-87 vettes are cheap right now, if you can afford more, I'd strongly suggest it. Definitely stay away from the 84, the crossfire engine is not what you'd want. 85-91 have the TPI and it's much better and has loads of torque. LT1 is 92-96 and has more power, but slightly less torque if I remember correctly.

They are quite easy to work on due to the clamshell hood design (makes everything easily accessible). Parts can be expensive if going through your local dealer, but shop smart and you'll save money (numerous online resources can get you Dealer cost + 10%, knocking 50% or more off the total price for new parts). The used market has plenty of parts as well, though don't expect to buy things for $5/10 like things are sometimes sold for the Fiero.

The vette really is a better car, though at a loss of uniqueness and mid-engine design. I respect both for what they are, and have both currently. I'm building a 94 convertible, and I am partially restoring an 84 Indy Fiero.

Why don't you find one to test drive? They're quite powerful compared to the Fiero...BTW, I have an 85 that needs minor body work (sanding, fill and paint) for $2800 in Greenville SC. I mention it only to show that prices are often in the same range...

You need to drive the Vette to see how it feels to you and how big of a smile it puts on your face.
Keep in mind, though, EVERYTHING for a Corvette will be more expensive than for a Fiero.

pacethis - my comments as to the C4 are more comparing to the later C5 and C6 vettes, not the Fiero.

10 large to put together a V8 Fiero is a bit pricey, easy to do for about 5 with good brakes and suspension, assuming you are not paying someone to build.

C5 and C6 are great cars, can't wait to see the C7

Do you really want a vette? Here is a simple answer. Take one Fiero, add a ZR2 kit, from PISA, one V8 engine and some brakes. Call it the Aero-vette. Here is the concept car GM built in the 70's. Yes, the engine is in the back.

[This message has been edited by RumbleB (edited 09-09-2008).]

Compare?.......Compare?

The vette doesn't even compare to the Fiero.

Vette's are a dime a dozzen Fiero's make better conversation pieces anyway.

Ive had 2 C4s. Hard to get in and out of ( a plus if you use it for dating girls that wear skirts), rattles, leaks, corners flat but even expansion joints can toss you around on a fast curve (even with new shocks and tires), seats are not comfortable on long drives (about 2 hours at a time was my limit). The good things are they look cool (i like C4s lots more than C5,C6), reliable drive train and good gas mileage. Powerwise, my Hemi Magnum will blow its doors off.

I own both of these - they are in the same condition with about the same miles on the odometer. If I HAD to sell one of them, it would probably be the Fiero.

I have had more vettes than I care to count. I LOVE the c4 vette as they are cheap, have tons of aftermarket for restore or modified, good gas mileage and are fun to drive. I am 6'4 and have found that the earlier c4 seats are not comfortable but I do love the feeling crawling into one.

That said. My wife and I are selling all our cars in prep for our move to K.L. Malaysia in May 09. We have 2 vettes left to sell. A 2003 z06 and a driver 84. We will NOT be selling our 88 Fiero.

THis is mainly because the fiero (as mentioned) is a much better conversation piece and I have owned it since college. It will be stored at my family in Atlanta, GA, USA home.

Bottom line: c4 owners get much less respect than other vette owners, both corvette and otherwise. They are good cars. Buy the newest model you can afford and buy it for YOU, NOT to impress anyone else!

Good luck!

quote Originally posted by psychosurfer: Buy the newest model you can afford and buy it for YOU, NOT to impress anyone else! Good luck!

I remember when the C4 came out amid all the hoopla... As bad as we think of it now, it's waaaaay better than the C3!

If I could trade my Fiero for a C4 in equal condition I would. Not to impress anyone, but the Vette is more reliable and has tons more support in the aftermarket.

My father in law has a few vettes (86, 89, 93 ragtop, 04 ragtop, and a new Z06) I love driving the C4's over the C5's (the C6 Z06 is of course the funnest). Call me crazy but the C5's have such a big butt! Yeh they are rattly and noisy but so is my Fiero. For the money they are pretty cool but you see Vettes everywhere. Think of the Vette as your second car! lol

I own both. I've had my 1984 Corvette for about 11 years now, and own 2 Fieros, a stock 86 GT and an 88 4.9 coupe.

They are two different cars in every way imaginable. The C4 Corvette feels much more rigid than the Fiero. In stock form for both cars, the Corvette will outhandle the Fiero 10 ways from Sunday, particularly being an 84 Vette. The early C4's weren't particularly fast in the quarter mile (the V8 Fiero coupe feels faster), but in the twisties, the Vette is bad to the bone. I can pin the passenger against their door with no feel that the car is going to break loose. It is, hands down, the stickiest car I've ever driven. I've driven C5 Corvettes as well, and none handle anywhere near how the 84 does.

Now...that said, the Vette is a rattle trap. I'm forever tracking down and fixing rattles, only to have three new ones pop up. Nature of the beast....and a small price to pay for a car that is this much fun to drive. The Fieros suspension is much more compliant, and the Fiero rides much better....the Vette beats on your spine after a while. Fun for a little while, but more fun when the road is smooth. Expansion joints are not your friend in this car. The Corvette has proven to be very reliable, and with just normal maintenance, I wouldn't hesitate to drive my 148K mile Corvette to Los Angeles and back tomorrow.

The Vette also lacks the mystique of the Fiero. The Fiero has a personality that just feels cool. I love the raspy exhaust on the V6 behind my back...whereas the Corvette is a brute, the Fiero feels almost exotic in my opinion. I like the seating position better in the Fiero as well. It truly is the poor man's Ferrari.

I think of them like my children....you love them differently, but don't love one more than the other. Like kids, the cars each have their own personality.

If you've ever wanted a C4 Corvette, now is the time. They are selling for rock bottom prices, and are a serious amount of bang for the buck. And while interior parts are pricey, mechanical parts are cheap and abundant. If you do your own wrenching, you can keep a C4 running forever for a reasonable amount of money. Here's mine

quote Originally posted by Frizlefrak: I own both. I've had my 1984 Corvette for about 11 years now, and own 2 Fieros, a stock 86 GT and an 88 4.9 coupe. They are two different cars in every way imaginable. The C4 Corvette feels much more rigid than the Fiero. In stock form for both cars, the Corvette will outhandle the Fiero 10 ways from Sunday, particularly being an 84 Vette. The early C4's weren't particularly fast in the quarter mile (the V8 Fiero coupe feels faster), but in the twisties, the Vette is bad to the bone. I can pin the passenger against their door with no feel that the car is going to break loose. It is, hands down, the stickiest car I've ever driven. I've driven C5 Corvettes as well, and none handle anywhere near how the 84 does. Now...that said, the Vette is a rattle trap. I'm forever tracking down and fixing rattles, only to have three new ones pop up. Nature of the beast....and a small price to pay for a car that is this much fun to drive. The Fieros suspension is much more compliant, and the Fiero rides much better....the Vette beats on your spine after a while.

The 84 vette was one of the best handling vettes released until very recently, able to hold over 1G on the skidpad in stock form.

However, this handling came at the cost of a comfy ride, which is why they softened the suspension up in later years. By the late 80's, and especially into the 90's, the cars became significantly more comfortable to drive. Handling is still very good, though the early cars are better for autocross, etc.

As a side note, many of you mention the rattles, creaks, etc. Those will be much more the case in the early cars with the harder suspension. It only makes sense that after 20 years with a rock-hard suspension, it will take it's toll on the rest of the car. I have not experienced any problems in the later years for creaks...

I have owned many Fieros, including an 84, 86GT w/ Northstar, and several 88's (one with 3800SC). I have also owned many vettes, too many to count, from the years 84, 85, 86, 88, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, including 5 or 6 ZR1 models.

The Fiero is great for what it is, and they are inexpensive - but a vette they are not. They can be as fun on the right road, but are significantly underpowered in stock form. Even those modified cars have a hard time keeping up with many of the later C4's. For instance, a BONE STOCK 96LT4 with a proper driver could pull high 11's in the 1/4. How many Fieros have accomplished this even with significant engine builds?

IMO C4s are ugly and aren't very fast at all in today's world. Modern groceries getters are faster. I'd say to scrap the C4 ideas. I realize the same things can be said about stock Fieros, but atleast they're unique. Vettes are a dime a dozen.

------------------

My Build Thread

quote Originally posted by Frizlefrak: In stock form for both cars, the Corvette will outhandle the Fiero 10 ways from Sunday, particularly being an 84 Vette. The early C4's weren't particularly fast in the quarter mile (the V8 Fiero coupe feels faster), but in the twisties, the Vette is bad to the bone. I can pin the passenger against their door with no feel that the car is going to break loose. It is, hands down, the stickiest car I've ever driven. I've driven C5 Corvettes as well, and none handle anywhere near how the 84 does.

As far as the '84 C4 outhandling the fiero, is it down to just having a stiffer suspension and wider tires or is it down to a generally better suspension geometry and stiffer chassis?

quote Originally posted by Unsafe At Any Speed: IMO C4s are ugly and aren't very fast at all in today's world. Modern groceries getters are faster. I'd say to scrap the C4 ideas. I realize the same things can be said about stock Fieros, but atleast they're unique. Vettes are a dime a dozen.

This would be my opinion. I own and drive Formula Fieros because they are fun to drive, upgradeable for low cost and because of the uniqueness of the car. There are four or five Vettes in my neighborhood, folks don't even know or care who owns them. Everyone in my neighborhood knows who owns and drives the Fieros and most gone for a ride. I wish all my cars had great paint jobs, that's the one thing I hear the most, man that thing runs well, when are you gonna paint it.

What we drive reflects the image we wish to project, few of us drive a basic whatever for function only.

Ron

quote Originally posted by PerKr: As far as the '84 C4 outhandling the fiero, is it down to just having a stiffer suspension and wider tires or is it down to a generally better suspension geometry and stiffer chassis?

The entire suspension on the C4 Corvette is vastly superior to that of the Fiero....even an 88 Fiero. Composite transverse monspring front and rear and alumimum suspension components for starters. Remember, horsepower was down in the early to mid 80's, and handling was how GM ( and everyone else, for that matter) marketed their sports cars. The C4 Corvette was built around it's suspension....and tires. Goodyear even developed the Gatorback specifically for the 1984 Corvette.

And the car handled very good....too good in fact. Owners complained about the harsh ride, particularly with the Z51 package. The suspension was softened on the 85 Vette....at a slight handling penalty. You'd have to be near the car's limits to detect the difference.

A properly maintained and set up early C4 is still one of the best handling production cars at any price.

The Fiero can be made to be a fantastic handling car....but out of the box, it's the C4's game.

And while we're talking about power (or lack thereof), the much maligned crossfire corvette in 1984 was the fastest American production car available, and few cars on the planet could hang with it at the time. It could achieve a low 15 second quarter mile and had a top speed of 140 mph, which was incredible for the time. Remember, this was 25 years ago. Do your own research.

[This message has been edited by Frizlefrak (edited 09-10-2008).]

To be fair the beter car depends on the year. The 88 Fiero DT was a better car than a 84-85. The later C4's were much better cars. Just as C5 and C6 are also better cars.

The early C4's has crossfire injection and many problems [dash, ride etc] the later cars are more trouble free. The same for the Fiero as the early cars were fun but flawed in several areas. [I own a 1985 so I will not lie]

As for engine swaps into a Fiero the same can be done in a Vette with out many changes. So this argument does not wash.

Dollar per Dollar the Fiero is a bargin but the Vette is a better car in the later C 4 years.

THe bottom line is buy what you want and enjoy it. This sounds like what Dad did and we all should be glad for him.

My Fiero with the Ferrari kit had a bone stock suspension and brakes except for Bilstien shocks and struts. It was good for 15-20+ mph faster on the regular exits/entrance ramps than either of my Corvettes. Those expansion joints or just cracks on the ramps would throw the vette at least half a lane over or break the rear end loose. The Fiero stuck like glue and the tires were prob 2" narrower too. It was no problem to take a marked 25-30 mph curve at 75 mph with the Fiero. My V8 Fiero was another story.

"a BONE STOCK 96LT4 with a proper driver could pull high 11's in the 1/4." Quoted by Pacethis.

Thats mighty fast for a car with only 330HP. I have a slightly modded 02 Ram Air with about 340 AT the wheels and it won't do THAT. Last I saw, in person, was a LT4 Vette pulling around 13.2-13.4 in the Quarter if memory serves me correct. About 10 or so years ago. Superman couldn't get a stock one into the 11s.

Vinny

[This message has been edited by vinny (edited 09-10-2008).]

quote Originally posted by vinny: "a BONE STOCK 96LT4 with a proper driver could pull high 11's in the 1/4." Quoted by Pacethis. Thats mighty fast for a car with only 330HP. I have a slightly modded 02 Ram Air with about 340 AT the wheels and it won't do THAT. Last I saw, in person, was a LT4 Vette pulling around 13.2-13.4 in the Quarter if memory serves me correct. About 10 or so years ago. Superman couldn't get a stock one into the 11s. Vinny

Yes, it looks like I'm going to have to eat my words...I thought I had remembered that from when I had my 96LT4, but just did a quick search and found high 12's was the case (12.93). Most stock LT4's had rwhp dynos right at 300, so they were definitely rated conservatively. Using normally accepted math, that puts the engine hp right at 340hp for 12% driveline loss, or 352hp for 15% driveline loss. As such, with the LS1 coming out the following year at 345hp, it would have been unwise to rate it accurately, or they wouldn't have had an increase at all for their new engine platform, the LS1.

The car would go 165-170mph is stock form as well, so definitely a quick beast. Not quite ZR1 territory, but it wasn't a 35k option like the ZR1 either.

Now, with some bolt ons, power came quickly, and 11's would have been in reach (the GM hotcam was good for 10% extra hp at the wheels). It's also lighter than the FBody, or at least that would be my assumption (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I can't remember what the C4s weight was but i believe it was more than the C5. http://corvettestrip.com/Corvette_Facts_C4.html has them listed between 3200 and 3300 lbs. 93-02 Fbodys are between 3300 (formula) and 3450 (loaded convert TA). By todays performance car standards all of these numbers are light. New Callenger! 2 TONS!

LS1s are under rated with many producing more than 300 wheel HP stock. Read about one the other day that dynoed 317 to the wheels factory stock! Amazing.

I do love the Gran Sports and ZR1s.


Vinny

went with my father to a corvette meeting last weekend. In a way, it ruined me. I mean, the power and sound of the LS2 at WOT along with the handling...
Too bad the C5's there that had any work done to them all looked like rice and the C4's were non-inspiring. A bunch of vettes simply becomes a bunch of vettes, nothing really exciting.

put an LS2 in your fiero...

I've owned a C4. A good car, no doubt. Mine was black-on-black with the removable roof piece. Nice car at the time and yes, a chick magnet, for a few precious months. However, the key ingredient for owning a car is the fun per miles quotiant. I like the freeway travells but disliked the Vette in the twisties! Why? Because the Vette hood stretched into the next county! When I drove my Vette fast in the twisties, I could not comfortably point the car to the next apex, without having to make a long distant phone call! ( Remember this was before everyone had cell phones). I ultimately sold the Vette for a Ferrari. The Fiero handling characteristics on the other hand, was more predictable. I was more able, and more comfortably, able to scyth my way from apex to apex without fear of losing the front end. Therefore, in my driving style, the Fiero is more comfortable to drive fast. Of the two cars, the C4 and the Fiero, I would grab the steering wheel of the Fiero before the Vette any day. Hope that clarifies some thoughts..

Cordially,
Kevin

well for me its a toss up i have both as well. it depends on what your using it for. id much rather take the fiero out in the twisties like some before me said. but after a few hours on the freeway my butt starts to go numb in the fiero, so id rather take the vette for a long haul. i find the fiero generally more fun. but it doesnt burn up tires very well like the corvette.

but why choose between the two have them both. if you have the space get them both great cars to have together

I'll only speak about the C5 and the 84-87 fieros because thats what I've driven... and there is no comparison in my opinion.

The C5 is so much more refined, such a strong chassis and handles incredibly. It has tons of torque and the convertible is really flashy. If you're going to save a few bucks, go for the C5. It will be more expensive than the C4 but I feel it would be worth it.

My fiero even has an engine swap, but I can be a realist... it can't compare to the C5. Not to mention you can beat on the C5 all day and you probably won't break things like you do in the Fiero.

Bottom line... C5 Z06 and you're goldennn

------------------

Get a Corvette when you're about 50 years old, but for right now... stick with the Fiero.

------------------



"I drive modified Fieros- anything less would be uncivilized."

quote Originally posted by kawana: put an LS2 in your fiero...

apart from the cost and the problems to get an LS2 fiero registered here, that's not a bad idea.
it did make me consider v8's again though, so I'm trying to gather as much info as I can about the ones on my list of possible swaps (4.9, northstar and pre-LS1 smallblocks).

I'm definitely getting a vette coupe if I ever come across one which I can afford and which isn't in need of mechanical restoration. The C6 just set an annoyingly high standard.