thinking about this after i posted about making it a 2 piece window, if that lower bend is low enough so it was far enough below the dew wipe you wouldn't even need the h-channel. you could just have mounting holes in the glass and bolt it to the lower bend window track mount section. what do you think? am i missing something? has this been thought of before? archie what do you think?
------------------ 88blackchopv8
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05:51 PM
rodneybooth Member
Posts: 158 From: Columbus, NC USA Registered: Aug 2005
AV8 why home brew a chop without any usable windows in hand? did you go off of known plans or just wing it? Cause it you winged it then you may have ended up with a different curve requirement than any other chop out there. No matter who you get windows from don't expect them to be perfect fit for you. If you went off of some plans with known points and measurements then you may be close enough to work with the windows designed for the plans, but there's still a chance. So advice for you would be not to finish out your body work for your chop because you may have to make adjustments when you do get windows. Having windows in place while chopping the car really helps with making sure your chop is going smoothly. Not slamming you or questioning your abilities but it's a huge risk you take without a "Guide" in place.
if i have to go lexan than i have to go lexan. i homebrew chopped my car several years ago. as you can see from my progress i've only stepped up my efforts just recently to complete it. i'd love for this post to be about my chop. it's not. i'm well aware my chop may be a one off. i and when i say i i'm meaning myself think my chop is close enough to archies [ obviously mass produced compared to my car ] in hoping his windows would work in my car that is only my opinion. i may be right i may be wrong, that has yet to be determined. what i am looking for in posting here is if the idea of a 2 piece window [upper glass single curve/ lower section curve/window track mount] is even feasible. i hope it does help me but even it doesn't then so be it. if it helps someone than it was obviously worth mentioning. i'm hoping archie reads this and tells me/us weather i'm wasting everyones time with this idea or not. i'd love to have glass windows in my chop. i'm just trying to figure out a way to get them. take my car out of it. even if it's only the archie chops that this idea works for wouldn't that be great? i'd love to hear some input. let me know what anyone thinks. archie read this and tell me if i'm an idot or not. thanks, chris i spelled idiot wrong so i must be an idiot lol, smile and have a good day!!! ------------------ 88blackchopv8
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 03-08-2009).]
Originally posted by rodneybooth: You guys have to be aware that we each have custom rigs and the way the windows will seat on each car may not be exactly the same.
quote
Originally posted by rodneybooth: My intent is to develop a product that fits Archie's chops precisely.
The intent you've voiced in the second item I've quoted above seems a very laudable one to me, so please appreciate my question: How does one reconcile the first statement quoted above (which suggests to me this may not work for all of Archie's Fiero chops) with your second statement above, "My intent is to develop a product which fits Archie's chops precisely."
Your latter statement, unlike your first one, clearly suggests that not only will your side window glass idea (a BIG plus over Lexan, IMHO) work with Archie's Fiero chops, but that as you say, it will do so in a manner "that fits Archie's chops precisely."
Asked simply, do you think your side window glass endeavor will fit a future V-8 Archie Fiero chop precisely, or not?
I'm not trying to give anyone grief here; I just would like further clarification re exactly what is being said.
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04:55 PM
rodneybooth Member
Posts: 158 From: Columbus, NC USA Registered: Aug 2005
Artist's license, a little risk, and the only game in town. I know from the template that the new product will fit mine and then I know exact Archie's tries to be with his work. His plexi fits his chops. Then you pray for rain.
I guess my real reason for posting the disclaimer is honesty. I don't want to promise something I can't deliver.
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07:15 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
Your latter statement, unlike your first one, clearly suggests that not only will your side window glass idea (a BIG plus over Lexan, IMHO) work with Archie's Fiero chops, but that as you say, it will do so in a manner "that fits Archie's chops precisely."
Asked simply, do you think your side window glass endeavor will fit a future V-8 Archie Fiero chop precisely, or not?
I'm not trying to give anyone grief here; I just would like further clarification re exactly what is being said.
If I may add; Archie tested several V8Archie choptops using a templete similar to Rodney's. The cars tested where; GBCT, #023, #022, & #020 which were all housed at Archie's. That said, the templet fitted all of them. Therefore since the various V8Archie cuts haven't changed over the years one can assume that all choptops (all 1-25) would be the same.
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10:05 PM
Mar 9th, 2009
blakeinspace Member
Posts: 5923 From: Fort Worth, Texas Registered: Dec 2001
Originally posted by jscott1: I'm glad somebody caught that... Someone in San Francisco should be working on it right now, with a little help from Scottie.
What are the whales in danger? It might be quicker to install my flex capicator and bring the windows back from the future! LOL
[This message has been edited by GTGeff (edited 03-09-2009).]
rodney, can you mark a line on your template 1/8th an inch above the lower bend and take a picture of it with the template up in the closed position? also if you could mark every 1/4 of an inch up from that line for an inch or 2 you would know how far below the dew wipe that bend is. i know it's probably a hassle to install/uninstall, but that would prove if my idea of a 2 piece window has any merit. would love to see the picture if it's not too much trouble. thanks, chris
------------------ 88blackchopv8
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02:08 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I'll get better shots of the glass template but my gut reaction to a two part system is that it has an inate structural weakness. Plus, there are alternatives to glass if it gets that far. I am looking at boat glass as a fall back position. I may have to modify the window guides and switch to rollers. These decisions are still down the road. Unfortunately this find of R&D takes time and if it were simple, it would have already been done.
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10:20 AM
Chris Hodson Member
Posts: 3097 From: Carpentersville Registered: Aug 2006
As long as no one starts mocking up these windows using "wood", you have my interest!!! Oh, wait.......that was the hinges thread........hahahaha........carry on!!!!
I took me a while to see where you were going with the two piece window. But it finally sunk in and it was an admirable possibility. If only glass was visable above the join line and the join line was below the dew wipe, you could have another medium below the dew wipe and hidden inside the door panels and it would work. However, the join line would be about 3/4" above the dew wipes and be very visable. Tonight or tomorrow I will post end shots of the template. BTW, I baited my hook with greenbacks and have a vendor nibbling. He says he can do the custom bends and he has a verifiable track record. We shall see!
ok thanks for the info. it was a thought at least. i'll be watching with great interest for your progress on this. i'd love to see your cad layout when you've finished it. from that i should be able to tell if my chop is close enough to archies to allow these potential windows to work in my car. 355spider's windows look really nice and may work in my car but i personally don't want to have to modify/fiddle with the window tracks, plus i don't like how the curve of the glass is. i would definitely be interested in a set if your window dimensions are pretty close to what my car would require. thanks for your time, chris nice car by the way, i hope mine turns out as well as yours has. did you fill the door handles? i'll have to look around for a build thread on your car. good luck with the glass ------------------ 88blackchopv8
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 03-10-2009).]
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05:26 PM
cornersonrails Member
Posts: 788 From: Algonquin,Il USA Registered: Jul 2006
I took me a while to see where you were going with the two piece window. But it finally sunk in and it was an admirable possibility. If only glass was visable above the join line and the join line was below the dew wipe, you could have another medium below the dew wipe and hidden inside the door panels and it would work. However, the join line would be about 3/4" above the dew wipes and be very visable.
You know if the join line was only 3/4" above the dew wipe and not horribly obtrusive I think it wouldn't be too bad. The problem is I can't imagine how you would bond the glass to this other material without it being really bulky at the join line. Still if this latest vendor falls through the two part window might be worth pursuing .
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07:14 PM
rodneybooth Member
Posts: 158 From: Columbus, NC USA Registered: Aug 2005
wow are you sure that lower bend is above the dew wipe? in your side shots it looks really close. if it is above the dew wipes can you readjust the position of that lower bend on your template making it lower and still have a good fit? something to think about. as for strength of the joint it really depends on how low you can get that bend and still have a window that seals properly, the lower the bend is the more overlap of the 2 pieces you could get, the stronger/stiffer it will be. i don't think the glass would fly off but it would probably be wobbly with not enough overlap. the h-channel idea might be still be feasible as well, i've seen glass held this way and be very rigid. that kind of connection wouldn't be bulky. but if you could get that entire seam below the dew wipe you could just get some low profile fasteners holding the parts together, and the bulkyness of the connection wouldn't be as much of a concern/obstacle because it would be hidden inside the door anyway. maybe if you tried making that bend lower but a deeper[more severe] angle it would still seal properly. these are just ideas i'm bouncing off you. i'm not a computer guru so if i can figure out a way to post what i have drawn up on paper i'll post them here. it's kind of hard writing out what i've drawn, a picture would be so much clearer. i'll try to get some drawings up here soon. if my car was an archie chop i would make my own template and try this myself, but my car is a one off so i could never get glass made for my car at a reasonable price. i'd never be able to offset the setup costs. my only hope for glass windows is if my car would be close enough to archies chop to make that glass fit my car. if not, then i'm stuck with lexan, which i knew before i chopped my car. anyways i'm sure you have quite a few people watching this thread hoping you finally get some glass that works really well for an archie chop. if anything i've posted helps in this endeavour or not i hope you're successful. i'll keep posting what i can here if i think it might help. thanks, chris
------------------ 88blackchopv8
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10:09 PM
Mar 11th, 2009
rodneybooth Member
Posts: 158 From: Columbus, NC USA Registered: Aug 2005
I have some ballpark figures from one vendor. Mind you....ballpark. And only the first vendor. He custom bends boat glass. He can provide non tempered safety glass that is DOT approved. Optimum word here is non tempered. Which means less strength. Molds might run between $1500 and $2000 for each side. One each for right and left. Each set might be between $400 and $500 on top of mold costs. The thickness is what he calls double strength which is 3.1 mm thick. The product can be tinted in green, bronze, or gray. Archie's plexi micked at 4 mm and normal industry glass miked at 6 mm. It will slide in the track easily and I am assured by an outside source that the product is not to thin to be practical. The fact that it is only half as thick as industry standard recieved a raised eyebrow from me. Although, It has to meet some standards to get DOT approval. The vendor is "sharpening his pencil" and will give me hard pricing the first of the week. This is a layered product and I wonder if more than two layers can be used to get better thickness. Thats going to be stuff for next week.
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02:22 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I have some ballpark figures from one vendor. Mind you....ballpark. And only the first vendor. He custom bends boat glass. He can provide non tempered safety glass that is DOT approved. .
Great information... So just so I understand by safety glass this would be like a windshield with a layer of plastic in it so even though it would break into shards they would not come loose and cut you into pieces?
My only concern is that in my 25 years of automobile ownership I have never had a side window break, (tempered glass is very strong) but nearly every car I've owned had a windshield which developed a crack which of course spreads from one end to the other.
Of course a side window would not be as prone to getting hit with rocks as a windshield, but I don't think it would be nearly as strong as stock side windows either.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 03-13-2009).]
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09:37 PM
Mar 14th, 2009
rodneybooth Member
Posts: 158 From: Columbus, NC USA Registered: Aug 2005
Safety glass has the membrane between layers that keeps the glass out of your lap. I have quotes coming on the tempered stuff. I just need some moe time. I still think the vendor can laminate 3 layers and get us closer to 3/8" or about 0.418 mm. I would look at this as a fall back position. I would still rather have tempered.
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06:43 AM
Mar 18th, 2009
rodneybooth Member
Posts: 158 From: Columbus, NC USA Registered: Aug 2005
I thought we had settled this amicably a long time ago...
I bought your glass windows for my chop top t-top thinking that a homebrewed chop could be made to fit the glass.
I have since sold the chop top t-top. And although I am tempted to put the glass windows in my Archie chop top I would prefer to have glass windows that are made exactly to fit the template.
There are many posts about how close it can be made to fit. I am not prepared at this time to take my door panels off, make any cuts, or change the weatherstripping in any major way. I'm not saying never, it's just that I've spent 4 years putting my car back together and I'm not ready to take it apart again, not even for a minute.
Mike, your windows are beautiful, and excellent workmanship. There is nothing wrong with them, they are just not designed to fit my car is all. I appreciate all you did to have the windows made, and the very reasonable price that you sold them for. I have nothing but admiration for your work and I'm sure you could make them reasonably fit my car, but if you knew what I went through on my car you would understand I'm not wanting any more changes at this time. At the show I just leave them open and all is good.
jscott1, I have been trying to find anyone who has previously done a chop t-top. Do you have a build thread on this? I have an 86 that I want to chop when time and money permits, but I would like to do it myself....any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tim.
Someone in San Francisco should be working on it right now, with a little help from Scottie.
