Hi guys,

As some of you know, I'm looking start a Fiero project and I'm on the hunt for the car to start it all with.

There are a few cars in my region and I'm leaning toward buying a four cylinder since the long term will see the engine and transmission will be replaced regardless. As such I've got a dilemma right now. There is both an '88 and an '87 coupe near where I live. I am planning to check them both out, but if everything is mostly equal, price will be a big determining factor.

The '88 is listed for $2500 (CAN) and the '87 is listed for $1200 (CAN). I'd eventually like to add the fastback look to the car I go with and just need something that will work as a good start for the whole project. I know the '88 will have much better suspension and braking but I don't know if that is worth the $1300 difference...

What are everyone's opinions?

Even though the '88 does indeed have the better suspension, the 4 cyl coupe lacks a rear sway bar that only Formulas and GTs got in '88. One of the major improvements you will notice in the '88 Fiero is it's revised front suspension setup makes it a lot easier to turn in slow speeds than prior years. If you do a lot of city driving you will appreciate the '88 more. You can make prior years handle as good as '88s with minor suspension improvements. You can always add poly, add a rear sway bar, and improve braking.

You do need to know that items for the '88 are getting a bit harder to come by, and I imagine that in the next decade it will be really tough to get '88 parts. The front hubs will eventually become a part that will be very difficult to find a replacement for.

On the thought that you'll eventually swap engines out anyway, if you do get the '87 it will be easier for you to locate a spare cradle to being an engine build, as '84-'87 cradles are all the same. This can save you down time, as you could theoretically have an entire swap ready to go, store it, then when you do get ready to swap it's a bolt in procedure. With an '88, you'll have to locate an '88 cradle, which could possibly be a daunting task considering only around 26,xxx '88 Fieros were made, and many are already long gone.

Finally you need to use "Fiero common sense" when observing possibilities. Check the rear trunk for rust. Look under the car's body and check the coolant tubes, making sure there are no major crushed points. Things that you observe can also determine which car is the better deal.

I was in a similar dilemma recently and picked up my '88 Formula over other cheaper possibilities. Because... well... it's an '88

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1988 Fiero Formula - Mostly stock. Poly all around. Weee....

[This message has been edited by Fiero84Freak (edited 06-26-2009).]

Lol, good advice with a funny ending, Fiero84Freak! All good points by the way and definitely gives me a bit more to consider...

The '88 suspension gets a lot of positive comments from those that had an '84 - '87 and then moved to an '88 so it is something that I am tossing around. The idea of a bit smoother suspension is important, to a point, for me. Hard to believe that suspension would be worth an extra $1300.

I've owned prior years as well before I bought my '88. I can attest that it is indeed a smoother ride, but I have added poly throughout. The ride is still considerably smooth, but anything that is remotely loose squeaks and rattles. My '84 and '87 weren't as bad. My '87 had more miles than my '84, but it seemed to ride better to me than my '84. Both were 4 cylinders.

I will tell you this though. Since owning my Formula, I'm finding it a lot harder to go back to prior years. Believe me. I'm already looking for a project Fiero, and I'm wanting it to be another '88.

Right now I have an 85 and an 88 sitting in the driveway. Both V6 cars 85 stick, 88 auto. Their handling and ride difference is very noticeable between the two. I am not sure I would go so far as to say the 88 has more ultimate grip, but the suspension does seem to be less harsh over bumps for a better ride without sacrificing grip, and IMO it also seems more precise. Some of this could be conditioned based, since the 88 at 154K miles has a lot of new suspension parts, while the 85 at 92K has not seen as many parts replaced meaning there is more wear on it.

I would generally recommend buying the chassis in the best condition overall before buying one for suspension setup. However, all else equal, I think there are compelling reasons to look closely at the 88.

As for parts, I generally have to order things for my 88. Autozone just won't have most stuff in stock anymore. However, I am yet to be unable to get something either. (One caveat, I have some new OEM front bearings I bought years ago in my basement as reserves when they went out of production, before the second run was done more recently. Have not needed them yet, with 154K on the clock.

I'm in a different province but the last year for emissions exemption in Ontario is '87 . Not aware about emissions laws in Alberta, so you may want to consider that.

quote Originally posted by rourke_87_T-Top: I'm in a different province but the last year for emissions exemption in Ontario is '87 . Not aware about emissions laws in Alberta, so you may want to consider that.

Nope, no big emissions standards at this point in Alberta. Definitely something to consider for the future though...

if emissions are not a factor I would go with an '88

thats funny i have an 88 coupe 5 spd for sale..... only 1500....and im just down in red deer...tim

[This message has been edited by thismanyfieros (edited 06-27-2009).]

I have an 88, only few downsides I find are the additional cost for parts, and also just availability of parts. Brake parts are becoming a bit less available I have noticed, they don't move enough of them to keep them on the shelf.

As one example, I have received 3 defective rear left calipers for my 88. In the end the store just gave up and refunded my money, since each rebuild was visibly bad.

If you do any work on it, need to plan ahead and order everything since quite a few things you won't be able to just grab at the parts store.

[This message has been edited by Xanth (edited 06-27-2009).]

88 is far superior and stock vs. stock will ride and handle better.
You can make the 87 handle better than the stock 88, but you'll sacrifice more ride comfort. I don't think you can get better steering feel in an 87 without completely replacing the steering rack with a late model power rack... and that might not do it because of the 87 front end geometry.

It's telling that one of the popular improvements to an 87 suspension is to put an 88 cradle in it.

87 does have about 1" (or 2"?) extra width between the strut towers in the engine compartment because the struts are in different locations. This makes a V8 or large engine swap easier, but they can still be done on an 88.

The only part currently difficult to find for an 88 is the front hubs. Reproductions suitable for street driving are available but I've heard they don't hold up well in racing applications.
When they are completely unable to be found, there are conversions that allow you to run a different front bearing. I believe Held makes them? It's been a while since I've checked. The last time I needed hubs for my 88 Formula, I found 2 in a bone yard 40 miles from me. Your mileage may vary.

To me, the 88 is worth the extra money. Unless you want to race it, it's a blast to drive with a stock suspension and the brakes, while not fantastic, are far superior to 87.

quote Originally posted by thismanyfieros: thats funny i have an 88 coupe 5 spd for sale..... only 1500....and im just down in red deer...tim

PM'd

pm returned...

It sounds like in your heart you really want an 88 GT. You would be better spending the cash to get one now, even if it means saving longer.

I repeat (earlier thread) you can not go wrong with a '88. But seriously I was in the same position trying to decide whether to go for the cheaper ’87 or go with the more expensive ’88. It was not until I had an opportunity drive them both that I was sold on the ’88. IMO the pre 88 models just don’t compare. So it does not matter which ’88 you get as long as you “getcha one”

TIM

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White 88 GT 5 spd
(Soon to be a Shelby S1 powered 6 spd)
Red 88 GT Auto
(Soon to be Shelby S1 powered) The swap has begun!!!

Black 88 coupe 5 spd (wife approved)

I am definitely leaning towards an '88 at this point. I'm not planning to put a monster motor or something that hasn't been done before in it (although I'd love to have a 2.0L Turbocharged Ecotec like I have in my '09 Cobalt SS Sedan...). Ultimately I'm a big fan of a car that can handle well. I definitely like having power on tap, but going through twisties is still my ultimate favorite (ironic considering I live in the Canadian Prairies).

With that being said, I'm now looking at two '88's. Tim (thismanyfieros) has a great '88 four cylinder/5 speed and lives just over an hour from me. Another guy that lives about 30 minutes from me has an '88 four cylinder/auto. Tim's is cheaper, while the other guy's is in better cosmetic shape. I think both would make excellent project bases for me. The advantage to the other guy's is that his has only 132,000 kms on the original Iron Duke and just had a bunch of work done to pass inspection. I had toyed with the idea of using this car over the winter this year and then starting a project on it next spring. It would save me buying winter's for my Cobalt SS (would cost almost as much as Tim's selling his car for)...

Anyway it's my problem to deal with. Ultimately it looks like you guys have swayed me to an '88. Thanks for all your help!

I bought mine almost two years ago and I set the filter to only show me 88s.
In addition to what I saw mentioned above, pre 88 models share their front suspension with front drivers and as such don’t permit as much steering angle input, meaning the minimum turning radius is smaller on the 88’s.
I think about this every time I make a U-turn.

quote Originally posted by gem1138: I bought mine almost two years ago and I set the filter to only show me 88s. In addition to what I saw mentioned above, pre 88 models share their front suspension with front drivers and as such don’t permit as much steering angle input, meaning the minimum turning radius is smaller on the 88’s. I think about this every time I make a U-turn.

Actually...the pre '88's share their front suspension with the rear-drive Chevrolet Chevette and Pontiac T1000- not front-drivers. The rear suspension on the pre '88's however was partly sourced from GM front drive x-cars (Citation, Omega, Phoenix). But you're right about the '88's having a better turning radius.

I hear ya. My '09 Cobalt SS has an absolute horrible turning radius. At least with a rear wheel drive (and with adequate power) there are other ways to get around tight corners...

i am picking up another iron duke this weekend and i plan on swapping engines...i know mine has high miles so i am hoping a different engine will help you decide...tim

quote Originally posted by thismanyfieros: i am picking up another iron duke this weekend and i plan on swapping engines...i know mine has high miles so i am hoping a different engine will help you decide...tim

Wow, Tim. That sounds like a lot of work to make the sale, but it definitely gives me more to think about. While you're at it, maybe you should just put in a 4.9L for me... I kid, I kid! I know you aren't just doing that for me though, you are trying to sell your car regardless. I'll PM you or email you once I've figured things out.

well we fiero owners stick together and look after each other..lol..i just dont seem 100% on the current engine thats in it...and i wouldnt feel right selling it as is...but thats just me...tim