I know this is somewhat of a 'taboo' subject, but it's based on a fiero, and I'm considering one, so I figured I'd ask. I know there's bound to be some on here with a countach kit car. I have a couple questions:

- Do you have any trouble getting it inspected? I see some using flat glass windshields, and no defrost lines on the back (mailbox sized) window. What about the windows that don't go down? Any of these issues (or some other) prevent it from passing?
- How easy is it to work on? It's a fiero, after all. Something is bound to break The engine bay doesn't look as accessible as a stock fiero. Is there a trick to working on it, like for changing spark plugs, oil, or say an alternator? Drop the cradle, remove the body, ???
- Larger wheels and tires are put on to fill out the body. Is there a change in handling? Are things like larger brakes, upgraded shocks/struts/springs, or added swaybars still possible to put on?
- The space frame has to be cut quite a bit for the aggressive lines of the countach to fit. I know some older cars were ladder frames with fiberglass bodies, but the thought of driving 'half a fiero' has me thinking it wouldn't survive an accident. Any problems with safety or flexing? Anyone been in an accident in theirs?
- How hot does it get, even with the windows (half) down?
- How is headroom? More than stock, less than stock, the same?
- How difficult is it to be aware of your surroundings, with visibility reduced so much? Any special techniques for driving through town? (I'm aware of the 'open the door and sit outside of it' technique for backing up into a parking space)
- What kind of reaction do you get, before and after people find out it's a fiero?
- What 'nightmares' have you found that you weren't expecting when purchasing/building your 'dream' car?

Thanks

[This message has been edited by kwagner (edited 08-29-2009).]

I've driven one Countach kit car for a bit. If I ever decide to build or buy one a Countach would be my choice.

quote Originally posted by kwagner: - Do you have any trouble getting it inspected? I see some using flat glass windshields, and no defrost lines on the back (mailbox sized) window. What about the windows that don't go down? Any of these issues (or some other) prevent it from passing?

This is going to depend on how tough vehicle inspection laws are in PA. Down here in Arkansas, we no longer have vehicle inspections. You can build just about whatever you want and as long as it has a vin and a title you're good.

The defrost won't be a big deal, as that's an option. Flat glass is actually OEM style. Some replicas use cut down van windows. I do know that a good deal of them have windows that don't roll down, but the correct style would be a half window, where only the bottom portion rolls down. Unfortunately, a good deal of Countach kit cars do not replicate that very well.

quote Originally posted by kwagner: - How easy is it to work on? It's a fiero, after all. Something is bound to break The engine bay doesn't look as accessible as a stock fiero. Is there a trick to working on it, like for changing spark plugs, oil, or say an alternator? Drop the cradle, remove the body, ???

It's the same as working on your Fiero normally. Actually, if you purchase one that's been stretched, it's believe it or not easier, because the front of the engine doesn't hug the firewall and you're able to access it easier. The sides may be difficult to get to (belts and such) because of the shape of the rear valiance , but you can always set it up to where you can just remove the wheel well to get to that stuff.

quote Originally posted by kwagner: - Larger wheels and tires are put on to fill out the body. Is there a change in handling? Are things like larger brakes, upgraded shocks/struts/springs, or added swaybars still possible to put on?

There is somewhat of a significant change that you will need to be aware of, but it's nothing that you wouldn't get used to after a few drives. You will receive what is known as more lateral grip, because you have increased the overall contact patch of the tire, but some people seem confused and believe that you will automatically receive more grip. This is inaccurate, and will all depend on the stiffness of the tire and what compound it's made of.

If you purchase the correct style wheels they are going to be a bit wider. You also need to be aware that I believe that Pirelli has discontinued the P Zero tire that went on the original Countach's rear. A lot of cars are now being outfitted with Michelin Pilots. The P Zeros would have cost you a small fortune anyway, but the Pilots are in themselves a good chunk of change too. It's all because the tire itself is so wide.

quote Originally posted by kwagner: - The space frame has to be cut quite a bit for the aggressive lines of the countach to fit. I know some older cars were ladder frames with fiberglass bodies, but the thought of driving 'half a fiero' has me thinking it wouldn't survive an accident. Any problems with safety or flexing? Anyone been in an accident in theirs?

If you remove the cradle and drive train and then do the cutting and reinforcing then there's no flex. It's really no different than a chop top.

quote Originally posted by kwagner: - How hot does it get, even with the windows (half) down?

As hot as in a Fiero, just don't use black leather for you upholstery.

quote Originally posted by kwagner: - How is headroom? More than stock, less than stock, the same?

It depends on the kit. If it's correct, it will be slightly less than stock.

quote Originally posted by kwagner: - How difficult is it to be aware of your surroundings, with visibility reduced so much? Any special techniques for driving through town? (I'm aware of the 'open the door and sit outside of it' technique for backing up into a parking space)

Rear visibility is reduced a bit. A somewhat simple way to test it is sit in your Fiero straight up. Now adjust your side mirrors correctly (to where you just see around the sides of the car). Now hunch down in the seat to where your head goes down about a good three inches. Don't readjust your mirrors. Now you're sitting in a Countach.

I would be careful if you do the whole sitting on the side pillar technique with fiberglass. If you bought the car complete you don't know how good it was enforced.

They can be a hassle to get in and out of though....

quote Originally posted by kwagner: - What kind of reaction do you get, before and after people find out it's a fiero?

Don't tell them it's a Fiero . At least that's what a guy here locally does that owns like 5 Lambo replicas. He's always telling people they're real

quote Originally posted by kwagner: - What 'nightmares' have you found that you weren't expecting when purchasing/building your 'dream' car?

I would recommend that if you plan on purchasing a kit car that you likely start with something simple. Countach kits are plentiful out there, and they vary in degree of quality. I would recommend that you try and find one that uses stock Fiero running gear. It will eliminate a good deal of headaches. You don't want to purchase one with a longitudinal engine setup with a V8 swap and then not know what was put into the drive train.


Oh one last thing. Do not assume that just because that Countachs are becoming so cheap that you will spend less money on them than you would say building a Diablo or Murcielago. There are guys that have spent in excess of $40k-$50k to build Countachs. Really the whole deal with completed replicas going for so cheap (like $15k-ish) is because they are really simple, cheap-and-dirty kits. Most of the time even if the owner or builder says their finished, 90% of the time they're not. If you want to replicate the real thing, expect to pay a bit more.

[This message has been edited by Fiero84Freak (edited 08-29-2009).]

Thanks for the answers. + for you
I know what you mean about 'it's complete/finished', I've seen a lot that say 90% or 95% complete that needed another 90% to actually be done. To make an accurate replica would cost a small fortune, with all the bits and pieces. Fortunately (for my pocketbook), I'm not after an exact replica, just the body (I love the countach styling). I don't know if I'd go as far as putting 'pontiac' on it, but I don't need one covered in lambo badges either. I'd rather get one with all the body stuff done and no engine swap, so I can customize it the way I want (I have suspension, brakes, and engine parts waiting). I'm redoing the interior regardless so it wouldn't matter if it had a 'lambo' interior or the stock fiero. Just for reference as to what brought up my interest again: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...em&item=290342891849 It's hard to say much without seeing it in person (a 7 hour drive ), but your general answers have helped a lot.

That one looks a lot like the one I drove.

It's a good starter kit, but I see potential problems right off the bat. The duke is okay (if you plan on using it as a daily driver), but it's sounding like to me the guy isn't that mechanically inclined. I bet it needs a REALLY good tune up (not a half-a$$ed one). The "driver's door rip cord" concerns me. I guess the builder, which obviously isn't the current owner, didn't know what a door handle is. The whole car needs to be repainted. He says the fan is wired to a toggle switch, which I'm guessing is that switch in the pic of the steering wheel to the bottom right of the protrusion in the cluster. The two switches to the far left on the dash I hope control the windows. Otherwise they don't roll up or down (from the sounds of the guy, I bet they don't roll up or down).

On the topic of kit cars, here's one local to me:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...0.m245#ht_503wt_1167

I've looked at and seen the car in person. This is the guy that I mentioned in my first post owns like 5 Lambo replicas. He makes it sound like this thing is easy to complete. See that gutter guard in one of the pics? That's like $2.48 from the Home Depot (it even still has the tags on it...).

Needless to say it's likely not going to sell. He's always had difficulties in selling his kit cars.

[This message has been edited by Fiero84Freak (edited 08-29-2009).]

One thing to keep in mind with the kit manufacturers is that they usually offer 2 kits, stretched, and non-stretched. That one is the non stretched version as the roof line looks like someone squashed the car down. If you look at the third picture on the left, you can get a good view of what I am talking about. The stretched version is proportioned correctly. Also, it is common with the non stretched version to run the 295/50/15 tires on the rear which is why they look so bubbled. The correct tires are 335/35/15. They are still available but very expensive. I recently sold a new set that I had for $800.00 and I was being nice with the price Years ago, I ordered the Euroworks videos on assembly of the car. I paid $120.00 for the 2 VHS tapes and never built the car. If you want, you can have the tapes since I don't need them. Just let me know.

Here is the Euroworks site. Check the Mirage K and Mirage S to see the differences in the stretched and non stretched.
http://www.euroworksexotics.com/

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 08-29-2009).]

Thanks for the comments. I've seen some side windows that slide down, like you said others do not. If I were to get the one mentioned in my previous post, the duke would be the first thing to go Need at least some power to back up the looks. It needs paint and definitely has some issues, but on the other hand it's "done". I was on euroworks' site the other day looking at the mirage K (I prefer a non-stretch right now), and the stage 2 kit is only 2 grand less than what this guy is selling one fully assembled. IMSA GT, I would like those tapes if you could, I was thinking of getting them from their site anyway.

quote This is the guy that I mentioned in my first post owns like 5 Lambo replicas.

Something popped out at me when reading that description, this

quote no trades of any kind.. call if you have questions... Scot 501-541-0988

looked familiar. I re-read the q&a on the white lambo, and guess what is there:

quote I built this car... she was mine....I miss her. If she does not sale.. I will make you a offer any questions? call me Scot 501-541-0988

small world Now I'm more wary of it...

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: The correct tires are 335/35/15. They are still available but very expensive. I recently sold a new set that I had for $800.00 and I was being nice with the price

Make that 345/35/15
I still have an extra pair, as I went with the 17's on my Countach.

I am building the Euroworks Mirage "S". It is the stretch. Would not have went any other way.

The frame is only stretched 5 inches for the Countach. Check out my "Home" link for more of what I did, or done so far.



I do know, for the glass, in Missouri, what ever I put in there is good, as I am considered the "Manufacturer" of the car. Flat glass, plexi, or none. I've talked to the Highway patrol about this specifically. They have been very helpful and informative so far. I think they are actually wanting me to get it done, so they can see it.

I can see, with the body mounted, some components are going to very difficult to get to. Clutch master cylinder for one. It will be on the back side of the brake master cylinder/booster, and will be hard to get at later. Most of the other stuff doesn't look TOO bad, but the body will play a part in the fun of fixing.

Headroom, you actually have very little control over. You can mount the body a little higher, or lower the seat mounts, by lowering the floor. The more you raise the body, the more you will need to lower the suspension. I don't have full interior of course, but just by putting the stock Fiero seat in, I can fit, and I plan to go with lower profile seats to boot. I am 6' ,235lbs.

I'm not anywhere near done, but might be able to help onother question in the future.

Kevin

Thanks. I could use a few more inches between the engine and firewall, but I'd like to put rrunner's adjustable swaybars on, and not sure if the stretch would allow it. Looking forward to seeing that car completed

quote Originally posted by kwagner: small world Now I'm more wary of it...

Wholly crap!! I thought I recognized that car! Now that I get a look at it, it is the SAME CAR that he owned a while back. He sold it about a year ago for some reason.

Is that the one you've been in? Does knowing the previous owner of the car increase or decrease your estimate on whether it's decent or not?

quote Originally posted by Fiero84Freak: ................ Now adjust your side mirrors correctly (to where you just see around the sides of the car).

I agree with most of what you said, but the above is totally wrong. If you can see the side of your car in your outside mirrors they are NOT set correctly and you will have a big blind spot.

If you see the side of your car you add about 2-3 degrees of range of increased visibility over your inside mirror. That is it.

Don't confuse some 30 year old driving manual that still shows hand over hand steering or 10 and 2 hand positioning.

The easiest way I can explain to set your outside mirrors is to lean your head against your drivers side window and THEN adjust the drivers side so you can BARELY see the side of the car. Then lean to the right side about the same distance and set the passenger side mirror to barely see the side then.

Your range of rear visibility will increase about 20% (forgot actual number).
You will not see headlights in your side mirrors at night while you drive unless someone is about to be passing you. Results in better night vision and less eye fatigue.
If you have good peripheral vision (180 degrees) your blind spot will be about as big as a motorcycle on the far side of the adjacent lane.

I also built and owned a Countach knock off. Plan on everyone swerving into you as they are very low and hard for some people to see.
Rear visibility for normal driving is not horrible because the inside mirror does not need a full window to see out of and properly adjusted outside mirrors will give a good view. Parking can be a pain because that is really when you need a big rear window to turn around and look. Then power mirrors really help so you can pull them in to see the sides of the car to park.

Thanks for the info

Sorry. I did mean adjust your mirrors until you just can't see the sides of the car. I think in all the quoting I was doing I for some reason left the other sentence out....

No that's not the car I drove but I have examined it in person. That guy Scot sold the car (well.... tried to) on eBay a while back. What's strange is why in the diablo ad he states he is 'cleaning house' but then in the other guy's Countach ad wants to buy the car back?.... Hmm....

[This message has been edited by Fiero84Freak (edited 08-30-2009).]

That part is odd. Either it's his favorite and he wants to just have that one, or he thinks he can make a quick flip on it somehow. Well the eBay listing's been updated with additional questions answered, but none of mine, just stupid "would you accept ___ for it" stuff. I guess he can't be bothered.

To those with a stretched countach, is the cradle stretched as well? How does that work?

quote Originally posted by kwagner: To those with a stretched countach, is the cradle stretched as well? How does that work?

You can stretch it. I explained what I did on my web site, just relocated the front mounting points...

Kevin

any good kit-car links one should keep an eye on? this thread reminded me of the dream I once had of building either a TR or Countach replica/semi-replica

Lambo Nut
Do you have to use the extended suspension pieces to bring the wheels out to the edge of the body, or can you just get wheels with the right offset for the Euroworks kit?
Did you get the Stage II kit and did it have most of the latches, lights etc that you need to complete the build?
Thanks, Mike

quote Originally posted by PerKr: any good kit-car links one should keep an eye on? this thread reminded me of the dream I once had of building either a TR or Countach replica/semi-replica

I posted this in another thread but here you go. Hope you aren't on dial-up

http://kitcarlist.com/

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: Lambo Nut Do you have to use the extended suspension pieces to bring the wheels out to the edge of the body, or can you just get wheels with the right offset for the Euroworks kit? Did you get the Stage II kit and did it have most of the latches, lights etc that you need to complete the build? Thanks, Mike

I got the custom wheels from Motorsport Specialties, USA, and they bolt right on, with no spacers, and fit they suspension and body dead on with no clearance issues.

I got just the body kit only from Alan at Euroworks.

Kevin

Howdy,
sorry I've been away so long here...been a bit crazy. I do have lots of news and some pics too...let's see pics...hmmm..For one, I got my curved winfscreen, and a big plus, my stainless steel curved side window frames that will even allow the windows to roll down
William

[This message has been edited by LamboWill (edited 09-02-2009).]

ok,

I posted a few pics on the old thread back in the technical forum thread I had started awhile back, you guys may want to take a look when ya get a chance.
Cheers,
Will

Just checked it out, thanks for the bump

Lambonut
It looks like the roof of your car is not one solid piece?
Is that the case?
Mike

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: Lambonut It looks like the roof of your car is not one solid piece? Is that the case? Mike

Yes it is one piece, all tied together with the front pillars, and the rear part of the body. The door skins are just setting on there for the picture, which is why things might looks funny.

Kevin

I saw a 25th countach at a car cruise yesterday, and now I agree -- there's no reason to not go with a stretch. It's still a small car, and it looks so good