Hi Welcome to 2005! I too, have been watching this dash drama, and have been doing research of my own in regard to the "dilemma" of the center brake handle. I found for those who want to use a similar console to the Firebird, but without the center brake handle holes, look to Chevrolet. Over in the Monte carlo section of the junkyard, find ANY 2000 and newer Monte Carlo and there it is, a center "FIrebird" style console, without the brake handle! It seems to me that this console will give a finished look without the brake handle hole that remains in teh console from the Firebird. Just my .02 S.Williams I'd post a pic, but PIP is having issues.
------------------ 1988 Fiero Formula T-tops CJB 143 of 1252 "factory T-top cars"
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12:38 PM
Jan 5th, 2005
1986GTV8 Member
Posts: 1259 From: Orlando,FL,USA Registered: Mar 2002
Thanks for the 2005 bump...there should be new developments soon on the Firebird Dash as the plug and play harness is nearly ready.
The Prototype harness has just completed bench testing, (actually kitchen table testing)
Everything checks out okay... I'm using vehicle side harnesses to check out the Fiero-Fierbird PNP Harness
This harness is the complete harness to convert a 93 to 96 firebird to work in an 87 to 88 Fiero. I haven't checked other years so results may vary. For those that have never taken the Fiero dash apart there are three connectors, (called C1, C2, and C3). Those three connectors normally plug into the Fiero Cluster, as you are sitting in the driver's seat C1 is by you left knee, C2 is above that and C3 is on the right. In this harness, all three plug into the box, and the 34 pin connector plugs into the firebird cluster.
The headlight switch is also incorporated in the harness. The headlight switch is integrated into the dash harness for the reason that the Fiero cluster does not have any pins hot at all times and the Fiero headlight switch does not have illumination. The firebird requires both so I have addressed the missing function in this harness.
Also the firebird headlight switch has to be modified in two ways, first the dimmer requires that the circuit board for the Fiero be swapped onto the Firebrd dimmer. Second the Firebird connector requires the addition of the "B" pin in order to operate the Fiero headlights. Thanks to PBJ for that tip. The defroster and trunk popper will be incorporated as well for a 100% plug and play installation.
Also this harness requires that an entire set of Fiero gauges be canabalized to provide the connectors and more importantly the speedometer circuit board that has the divide by two circuit on it. I am also using an 88 speedomter board that has the buffered 4000 pulse per mile square wave. I haven't done it any other way, and I have heard of problems if you attempt to drive the Firebird speedometer directily from the VSS 4000 ppm sine wave.
Pricing and availability....
I can build the harness any way you want. An easy way to think of it though is that $399 is my price that includes everything you need. This price includes the harness, all the connectors, a Firebird Guage Cluster, and a Firebird Headlight switch with a modified Firebird Dimmer switch, and Trunk popper switch, all tested and guaranteed to work. HVAC is not included yet as I'm still working on some ideas. For now you can use the Fiero controls with a modified bezel.
I have decided not to chare core charges (The harness is $399 everything included) but if you already have any of the Firebird parts you can get a credit or sell your Fiero parts back to me, as you won't need them after the swap. (Prices subject to change):
Firebird Gauges (93-96) subtract $25 Firebird 34 pin connector (93-98) - I will buy for $15 Firebird Headlight switch (93-2002) - subtract $10 Firebird Trunk popper (93-2002) - You get a credit or I will buy for $5 each
Firebird Dimmer switch (82-92) I will buy for $5 each Firebird Headlight switch (82-92) - I will buy for $5 each
Fiero Gauges (84-88) I will buy for $15 each Fiero Headlight switch (84-88) - I will buy for $5 each Fiero Dimmer Switch (84-88) I will buy for $5 each Fiero Trunk popper (84-88) - I will buy for $5 each Fiero Defogger switch (84-88) - I will buy for $5 each
Well.. I started reading this thread at 9:15, and I just finished and I am astounded.
I'd pay either of you to come up here and do this to my Fiero when I get it, this is an amazing job. I'm sad that I'm too lazy and not nearly skilled enough to do this to my own fiero, but if it were done, I'd be the envy of the entire northeastern coast of Fiero owners...
Jonathon, how much would you charge to get a whole setup, doors, everything made like exact replica of yours, and ship it to me? I'd imaigne thats easy enough to just unplug everything in my Fiero, and then swap it over to put the stuff I got shipped to me in there right?
Sigh, there is no easy alternative
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11:04 AM
1986GTV8 Member
Posts: 1259 From: Orlando,FL,USA Registered: Mar 2002
I'd pay either of you to come up here and do this to my Fiero when I get it...
Jonathon, how much would you charge to get a whole setup, doors, everything made like exact replica of yours, and ship it to me?
Thanks for the compliment! I really appreciate it. Roy (MrFixit58) and I pioneered this swap two years ago and back then we expected that it would become as popular as the Grand Am brakes or the 3800SC swap. The only thing holding a lot of people back is the complexity of the electrical and making everything fit.
I am working on the harness as the first step to enable people to do the electrical work themselves, unfortunately there is no bolt-on solution for the whole interior...yet. My car is a one-off with everything custom fitted, if I unhooked it and shipped it to you it wouldn't just plug in.
After the harness I'm working on a solution for the HVAC to make that easier to integrate and then next is the door panels and console. I wish I had a partner that was good with Firberglass because that's what's needed to make the door panels correct, (Roy?). It mignt be a while before I can get to that point. But for now I can help you hook up the gauges.
- Jonathan
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01:46 PM
MetroMatt Member
Posts: 702 From: Washington, D.C., CAR located in Monroe, Michigan Registered: Jan 2005
See I've never applied myself in mechanics or anything of the sort, it'd take me forever to get it right, and I'd most likely quit long before I finished, my best bet would be to find a bolt-on solution, I love this look though, I think if I do decide I want to get a different car, I might just ship this off to you with the parts inside it and let you do the work!
Iunno, in all seriousness I love the look you've put tgoether, and I'd like to keep my fiero for a good long while, and keep it until its antique years.... We'll see what happens
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02:28 PM
mrfixit58 Member
Posts: 3330 From: Seffner, Fl, USA Registered: Jul 99
Thanks for the compliment! I really appreciate it. Roy (MrFixit58) and I pioneered this swap two years ago and back then we expected that it would become as popular as the Grand Am brakes or the 3800SC swap. The only thing holding a lot of people back is the complexity of the electrical and making everything fit.
I am working on the harness as the first step to enable people to do the electrical work themselves, unfortunately there is no bolt-on solution for the whole interior...yet. My car is a one-off with everything custom fitted, if I unhooked it and shipped it to you it wouldn't just plug in.
After the harness I'm working on a solution for the HVAC to make that easier to integrate and then next is the door panels and console. I wish I had a partner that was good with Firberglass because that's what's needed to make the door panels correct, (Roy?). It mignt be a while before I can get to that point. But for now I can help you hook up the gauges.
- Jonathan
Jonathan,
You flatter me. My fiberglass work is acceptible... to me. I don't know that it would meet other's expectations. It would be interesting to see that, if my custom fiberglass parts were splashed, would they fit as well in other conversions. The dash filler would probably be the only piece that others could use. The armrest covers we developed for my custom Firebird-like door panels and the waterfall/computer cover is custom fit to my re-heated and reformed Firebird console. It was pretty easy to heat and reshape the Firebird console them make the fiberglass fit the console. I'm not too sure it'd work the other way around.
The work you're doing to make the cluster plug-n-play is amazing. That's a LOT of work for only $250. I think that the A/C control would be just as much work if not more. But, where there's a will there's a way .
The work you're doing to make the cluster plug-n-play is amazing. That's a LOT of work for only $250. I think that the A/C control would be just as much work if not more. But, where there's a will there's a way .
Keep up the GREAT work,
Thanks for the compliment.
I don't expect to get rich making these harnesses, it's just my way of giving back to the Fiero community on something that I know how to do. I priced it based on how much I would be willing to pay, if I factor in my labor I think I might have to fine myself for working below minimum wage.
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05:26 PM
MDFierolvr Member
Posts: 2025 From: Great Mills, MD Registered: Mar 2004
Ohh man, I sat down thinking that I wasnt going to read the entire post and look where I am at now, fourteen pages and 2 hours later I am sooooooo sad that I don't have the knowledge or tools to make a swap like that. Is there a kit coming?...hopefully there is because I would definately be your first costomer, I think though that if i were to do this the fiberglass comp. cover would be a must, that is beautiful. I give you both a huge two thumbs up.... here's your bump.
------------------ 86' SE packing the 3.4L
Long Live BUCKEYE LIFE
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06:06 PM
PFF
System Bot
htexans1 Member
Posts: 9114 From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX Registered: Sep 2001
JScott1: Add me to the list of interested persons for the harness. I plan to do the dash, console and door panels in the formula but the electrics are holding me back. Let me know. S.Williams Too bad im on Active Duty, being from Houston and all, I should be local to ya (Missouri City) But im stuck in KS.... (GRIN)
------------------ 1988 Fiero Formula T-tops CJB 143 of 1252 "factory T-top cars"
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11:10 PM
Jan 21st, 2005
PaulJK Member
Posts: 6638 From: Los Angeles Registered: Oct 2001
Which wire coming off the fiero speedo buffer card to you use to feed into the new speedo ?
I use the "M" pin from the speedo buffer card. Notice that only the 88 speedometer buffer card has the "M" pin which is the 4000 pulse per mile output to the electrohydrraulic power steering. The other solution would be to use a DRAC from another car that has the 4000 ppm output but I haven't pulled one from the bone yard to try that yet.
quote
Instead of the stock firebird HVAC controls, can you modify one that has climate control (select the temp. and the system maintains it) ? ....
Anything's possible... BubbajoeXXX talked about swapping in a totally electric HVAC system from a early 90s olds or buick. I haven't investigated which models might be easiest to use as a donor. It sounds like I have to make a couple of more trips to the pick-a-part and do some more research. I would prefer an all electric HVAC solution to the cable because all the firebird dashes I have seen have the temperature control cable cut.
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12:38 AM
PaulJK Member
Posts: 6638 From: Los Angeles Registered: Oct 2001
The prototype has been completed and is ready for test in the car. The second prototype and first production harnesses are under contruction.
I am beginning to build a mailing list of all who express interest... but I will post here too so that everyone is informed of the progress.
I'm not ready to take any orders yet, but I am accepting "pre-orders" all you need is to send me a PM or email ( j_scott_1@yahoo.com ) telling me that you are interested. There is no comittment. Thanks.
I want one. You got my PM. One question: I have a 86 GT with 3.4 camaro -95 engine and I know that you wrote that you only tested on 87-88. What will be the difference or do you think it will work and you just dont have it tested?
Once I source my dash, console and door panels I'll be hitting you up for this harness! I have the skills (just barely) to do this, just not the patience to do all this detailed wiring. So glad to see you giving back to the rest of us! Thanks man.
Once I get mine in and working/looking good, I'll be up to helping anyone else out in the Columbus area when they want to do it too!
[This message has been edited by Skratch (edited 02-08-2005).]
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07:35 PM
PFF
System Bot
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I want one. You got my PM. One question: I have a 86 GT with 3.4 camaro -95 engine and I know that you wrote that you only tested on 87-88. What will be the difference or do you think it will work and you just dont have it tested?
Since I am an engineer by trade we have an expression that "one test is worth a 1000 opinions" so I would prefer to test my harness on all models, but I don't happen to have a Fiero of every year at my disposal. However having said that I do have access to the drawings and information and I have every reason to believe it will work on an 86.
The engine is of consequence only to the tach and that won't be an issue at all for you since these clusters came out of Firebirds with 3.4L engine. The differences between different years Fieros are mostly trivial in nature. I believe I know off all of them so I don't expect any surprises. My harness is guaranteed to work, which means if it doesn't you can return it for a complete refund, (less shipping).
I am good with wiring but my fiberglass skill leave a lot to be desired so I'm giving back the best way I can. If you guys end up with the Fiero X dash or the Firebird it doesn't matter, my harness can get the Firebird cluster working for you. Good luck
- Jonathan
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10:02 PM
Feb 9th, 2005
1986GTV8 Member
Posts: 1259 From: Orlando,FL,USA Registered: Mar 2002
i love this thread i just bought a center console from a 94 fire bird and got the doors also not bad for 100 bucks plus he threw in a new sunroof for my car cause mine leakes cause of faulty tabs well im just doing the center and doors for now gonna make a custom dash to go with it using all fiero dash parts (make it easy) was just wondering if anyone has the measure ment for shaving the fire bird doors down to fit and if the inner door rods will work if not modified for locks and door opener let me know plz
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02:20 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
was just wondering if anyone has the measure ment for shaving the fire bird doors down to fit and if the inner door rods will work if not modified for locks and door opener let me know plz
If you look on page 2 I have the measurement for where the door openers need to be and the modifications to the door rods. You can also see how the door panels are cut. I don't have measurements, the trick is to push the door panel as far forwars as it will go and keep cutting on the back until the door closes.
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02:35 PM
RCR Member
Posts: 4416 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
Jon, How are you connecting wires to the flexible circuit for your Fiero connector interconnects? Are you just cutting the circuit to size for your connectors, stripping the plastic off the copper and soldering to it? I'm asking because I need to do the same thing for my Grand Am cluster and I'd like to get your experience before I chop mine up.
TIA Bob
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04:45 PM
soup Member
Posts: 1572 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Nov 2001
Are you just cutting the circuit to size for your connectors, stripping the plastic off the copper and soldering to it? Bob
In a word...yes. Anyone who has ever worked with these flexible circuit boards knows they are a pain in the you know what. One of the reasons I wanted to build a couple of prototypes is to perfect my constructions techniques. This first one is kind of crude in terms of the cutting.
What I did to give it some stiffness is to drill small holes through the plastic back of the speedometer as well as the circuit board. Then I stripped off the plastic and soldered the wires onto the copper pads. I then used quick setting epoxy to mechanically hold the wires in place. Then I seal the whole thing with "goop". Then I cut out a rectangular section of the back of the speedometer and bolt that into the box. That way there is no stress whatsoever on the wires. So far the protype has held up very well.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-13-2005).]
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08:36 PM
Feb 11th, 2005
RCR Member
Posts: 4416 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
Hey jscott... can i get one of those connectors ASAP.
Daniel, I would be happy to add you to my mailing list. My goal, as stated earlier, is to take all the guess work out of the installation of Firebird gauges so I include a set of guages with the harness.
There are at least 5 different versions of the Firebird gauge that I am aware of, three of which work perfect with the Fiero, one sort of, and one not at all. To take out the guess work I will deliver gauges guaranteed to work with the Fiero. Do I have extra gauges?
I'm building up inventory to be able to meet demand once the harness start shipping. My kitchen is starting to resemble Archie's workshop
I have every reason to believe the 86 will be okay although I don't have a way to test. Thanks to Roy, (MrFixit58) and Scott (Scott-Wa) for wiring diagrams for all years Fieros and Firebirds 93 to 98. I can do a cross check on the drawings at least to make sure everything is okay.
- Jonathan
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-13-2005).]
Sounds good... just let me know when they are avail and how much you want. thnx. And also... two more questions... how did you mount your dash? and 2) do you know where to get the plugs for the door switches? (wiring and the connector?)
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01:10 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
My dash is mounted using mounts to the upper lip under the windshield and underneath. Because I mounted my dash differently than most, the exact shape of those brackets are not going to be useful to you.
There are 3 places I have found to get F-body parts. 1) ebay , 2) Junkyard 3) People parting out firebirds. For stuff like connectors I have had the most luck with #3. I will send them an email and tell them what I need.
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01:51 AM
soup Member
Posts: 1572 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Nov 2001
Hey Jscott, I dont know if you remember me, but I was talking to you a while back about hooking up these gauges that I had got cheap on ebay. You had siad that you would send me the schematics when I found out what year it is. I am not sure how to figure out what year the gauges are out of, and they guy i bought them off wasnt sure either. I just got them in the mail, guess the guy took so long beacuse he wasnt happy that I got them so cheap.. gotta love no reserve bidding
SO here is a pic of the connector on the back if that helps any.
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01:06 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Hey Soup, I can tell that the gauge above is not 93 to 96, so at best you will not be able to use them without some difficulty.
From my experience the analog (93-96) boards were blue. The 97 and up digital boards are green. That means it won't be plug and play. If it's a 97 or 98 everything should work except the fuel gauge. The 99 and up are all digital and in my opinion are not worth messing with.
I can't quite see in the picture but look on the bottom row of pins on the connector. Count over from the left and if only the first 5 and the last 6 pins are used then you are in luck it's probably a 97 or 98. If you see pins 5 to 11 used then it's probably a 99 and up. From what I can see looks like you might have a 97 or 98. If you replace the fuel gauge with an analog one it can be used.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-13-2005).]
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01:46 PM
Feb 15th, 2005
newfierokid Member
Posts: 278 From: largo,FL, USA Registered: Feb 2004
ok still working on mine got a new drimmel cause my drill just wasnt powerful enough to use a cutting wheel duh but i forgot a extension cord just tryed my hand at fiber glass also now i see why they say where gloves i dont think i did bad for my first time sorry no pics dont feel like being made fun of by the morons on here i need to put a few more coats on then i will have my new ecm cover whoopy when all is done i put some pics up mine not as nice as the others on here so not gonna try to compete one last thing how thick should i make the cover as in how many FG layers
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12:28 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
The fiberglass has been my biggest challenge. I'm about to start my 3rd attempt on my door panels and dash filler panel. I may have to give up and let a professional finish it.
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12:51 PM
mrfixit58 Member
Posts: 3330 From: Seffner, Fl, USA Registered: Jul 99
ok still working on mine ... one last thing how thick should i make the cover as in how many FG layers
I think I did 2-3 layers. It doesn't have to be too thick because it doesn't support any weight. The thickness is used more for smoothing than anything. You want it thick enough so when you sand it, you're not sanding holes in it.
The fiberglass has been my biggest challenge. I'm about to start my 3rd attempt on my door panels and dash filler panel. I may have to give up and let a professional finish it.
Don't quit now. Practice makes perfect.
Roy
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01:13 PM
soup Member
Posts: 1572 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Nov 2001
Does anyone have the schematics so that I can wire up my gauges?
I was thinkin about the gas gauge, and if I cant connect it, I might just fill it in, and have another gauge, make a pod on my a pillar. I am not too worried about it...
I was fooliing around with teh gauges last night, had the multimeter out, and a 12v source. I found most of the lights, but I have no idea how the gauges work.
