just a quick picture of one of my more or less completed doors - looks like I have a color issue that I will have to take care of...anyways:
That is beautiful. My winter project is to redo my door panels, (for the third or fourth time.) but I have a spare set of doors off a parts car so I can mock up the panels and make a mold so I won't have to do it a fifth time.
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05:56 PM
Jan 4th, 2007
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7549 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
...just an update with the new color, does it work?? Seat color might be changed (haven't got that far yet)
Is that upholstered aound the outside? It's hard to tell from the pics. I suck at upholstery and fiberglass, so I'm thinking of throwing in the towel and having them done professionally. Yours are the nicest door panels I've seen yet.
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04:25 PM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5349 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
Some progress. Started with making a paper doorskin... Mounted on the door too check. Paper doorskin + Trans Am doorskin Trans Am doorskin on the car for test Paper skin + Trans Am skin on the car Paper skin with the right location marked. Paper skin + Trans Am skin bolted together Cut Almost closed
My plan is too use the original mounting points on the door. On the lower pics the door is mounted with the original mounts in the paper skin and the paper skin is mounted in the Trans Am skin. Soo if I make a thin wood skin and mount on the back of the Trans Am skin. That would work.
[This message has been edited by Sharkman (edited 01-08-2007).]
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01:57 AM
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7549 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by jscott1: Is that upholstered aound the outside? It's hard to tell from the pics. I suck at upholstery and fiberglass, so I'm thinking of throwing in the towel and having them done professionally. Yours are the nicest door panels I've seen yet.
Nope fiberglass of sorts, I wanted to duplicated the look of the Firebird panel (no vinyl - ok, so I am wierd ) I kind of just followed Roy's (mrfixit58's) lead and added my own thoughts (so he gets the credit for the ideal of modifing the original Fiero panels) - this was my first 'real' way of trying it this way (using foam/etc.) - see below for build.
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Originally posted by fierobuff: Mickey_Moose: Can you give us a step by step on how you did your doors? They are fantastic!!
Build progress (of sorts), I didn't take a lot of pictures during it, but this is what I have done:
Removed the factory vinyl/carpet from the door, there was a bit of an offset on the front side of the panel that needed to be removed:
I basically cut out the ridge between the high and lower section so that the panel would lay flat (only had to go back 1/2 ways on the main panel). Sorry, I didn't take a picture of this. The panel was laid face down and fiberglassed of the back to join the 2 sections and to fill all the original cutouts in the panel.
I then used some fiberglass reinforced filled to smooth out the front side (didn't worry about the section near the rear of the panel as the door handle would cover it).
Test fit to make sure everything hopefully lines up. I also cut the door handle and speaker pod assembly.
Next was to draw the shape that I what, trying to duplicate the Firebirds panels some what. I used smaller dimensions as Fiero door is a bit smaller (looked kind of odd when I used the Fierbird dimensions). Sorry, again no picture.
Nexted, I found some Urathane foam in a spray can and covered the areas that needed to be built up and let dry over night. The next day using a hacksaw blade, file and sand paper I started to shape the panel. First I cut off all the excess with the hacksaw blade, then rounded the edges with a file and sand paper.
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 01-08-2007).]
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11:18 AM
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7549 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Next I covered the foam with some black fleece using some spray glue that was compatible with the foam. This was the nasty part as I seemed to have glue every place that I didn't need it.
After the glue had set up, I mixed some fiberglass resin (tested first to make sure it was compatiable with the foam) and using a brush, painted the resin all over the fleece soaking it down really good. The fleece took a large amount of resin to really soak it. A few places the fleece had let go from the glued foam and shrunk/or bunched after the resin dried, so I had to cut off the buched areas and fill the sections that shrunk. I just glued some new fleece in place and coverd with resin.
This picture shows one of the spot that needed to be repaired (along the bottom - yellow spot, the text of the fleece can sort of be seen as well).
I then spent a fair amount of time sanding the fleece down smooth and filled any low spots with the fiberglass enforced filler. I didn't particularly like the 'smooth' look of fiberglass after the sanding, so I painted all these parts with an interior texture spray paint [b](thanks to RCR for the info)[/u] and then painted black - here is a link to what I used (I bought it locally at a body shop supply store). http://www.detailandstripes.com/sem-39853.html
I then separated the foam backing from the original Firebird vinyl and glued it to the door to add some padding. The Firebird original vinyl did not work for me since I changed the dimensions. The above picture shows the Firebird vinyl and how it was short in a few spots.
Bought some new vinyl to match the orignal and glued it down, the edges were tucked underneath the fleece resin part to hide the edges.
Here is a close up that shows the texture.
Didn't care for the black, so here is how the door as it sits now, still a bit on the light side, but I am currently having the body shop supply store color match me some interior paint to match the color of the handle and dash.
The firebird handle was attached to the door using screw through the panel into the areas on the handle that were used as attachment points on the original panel. Originally they were melted to hold them in place, I just cut the ugle meld ends off, drilled holes in my panel for the studs to fit it and drove some large screws in. I used similar screws to the ones that normally hold the bottom corners of the Fiero's dash in place (short screw with a 10mm head on it). The speaker pod was screwed and the tabs that were melted before were reused what I could. It is moslty held in place by the handle and one screw under the speaker grill.
One thing to note, the speaker pod is NOT in the same location in my car in relation to the handle as it sits on the original Firebird panel. The speakers are actually a bit closer to the handle in my car. You can see in this picture that the vinyl is too short (red circle) as originally the plastic back side of the pod assembly would have coverd the gap.
They are not 100% perfect, there is the odd flaw in them that showed up once they were painted in the grey, maybe they will hide a bit better with the darker color (I really don't want to sand them all down to fix them as they are fairly minor - I will pay more attention to the drivers doors). Now I just got to do the driver's side
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 01-08-2007).]
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11:40 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I then spent a fair amount of time sanding the fleece down smooth and filled any low spots with the fiberglass enforced filler. I didn't particularly like the 'smooth' look of fiberglass after the sanding, so I painted all these parts with an interior texture spray paint [b](thanks to RCR for the info)[/u] and then painted black - here is a link to what I used (I bought it locally at a body shop supply store).
Thanks for the tip on the textured paint. It looked so good I thought it was upholstery. I tried some textured paint in one of my iterations, but the grain was too small to be visible and I was disappointed.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-08-2007).]
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01:57 PM
PFF
System Bot
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7549 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by jscott1: Thanks for the tip on the textured paint. It looked so good I thought it was upholstery. I tried some textured paint in one of my iterations, but the grain was too small to be visible and I was disappointed.
I found it worked best with very light coats (just letting it spit on the surface) and holding the can a min. of 12 inches away - I would have to say I was probably closer to 24".
I actually thought it would show up better as some of the directions I came across was to apply and then lightly sand to knock the texture down to what you want. For me it never got that pronounced.
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 01-08-2007).]
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04:22 PM
Mar 14th, 2007
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7549 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Here is my drivers door as it now stands, turned out a bit better than the passenger. Now to attach it and go back and fix the passenger side - I just 'might' get this thing done by the turn of the century.
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02:24 PM
Mar 16th, 2007
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7549 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
There is interference with the parking brake, will have to see what I can do about that - till then, I just have to open the door to set it.
That looks good!! Mine interferes with the parking brake too, but I can still set it with the door closed. In the next iteration of my door panel I intend to make an indentation for the parking brake handle, but honestly the collapsed seat cushion creates more interference for me.
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03:45 PM
Mar 17th, 2007
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7549 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
That looks good!! Mine interferes with the parking brake too, but I can still set it with the door closed. In the next iteration of my door panel I intend to make an indentation for the parking brake handle, but honestly the collapsed seat cushion creates more interference for me.
...hmmm, my seats don't interfer - your parking brake doesn't...just need something in between.
I thought about the indentation part for the park, but I just used the factory plastic vs building a whole new section...
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11:18 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I thought about the indentation part for the park, but I just used the factory plastic vs building a whole new section...
I'm using the factory plastic too, but since I have already grafted on fiberglass ends, it wouldn't be too difficult to take a notch out of the plastic and smooth it over with 'glass.
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11:30 AM
RCR Member
Posts: 4416 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
Originally posted by jscott1: I'm trying to stock up on parts to build more harnesses and I'm still having trouble finding the headlight switch connector.
By the way, the 12125632 is the dimmer switch connector.
I'm still trying to find that headlight switch connector. A GM part number would be appreciated if anyone knows it.
...hmmm, bad news - I don't have a listing for it, maybe the dealership might as they have a much newer version of the software (I just have an ancient version - good for the Fiero even though it has a lot of those DISCON (as part 34) next to the number )…36 is the connector, 37 is the switch, 42 is dimmer switch one:
BTW >> I found some sockets that will fit into the door trim, so I won't need those ones anymore - still interested in the ash tray one and the glove box - or if better, could you send me a picture of what they look like and I will go from there (maybe some other car has something the same).
Tim
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 04-14-2007).]
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12:49 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Thanks Tim, my software didn't have it either. Must have been a late change or something.
I'm tempted to solder directly on the headlight switch, but I would rather not do that. That switch has to carry a fair amount of current.
I'm searching through all my parts bins trying to get enough parts to build some harnesses. I have firm interest in two, and I intend to build the prototype 1990 pod, which needs a mini harness. I should have the lights identified this weekend.
Did the firebird dimmer work? It´s alot like the fiero dimmer but better design with a ceramic board and cooling ribbs. And the fiero dimmer only have 2 resistors. Otherwise the fiero dimmer fits in the same spot next too the headlight switch and the "wheel" is the same and can be moved. But my fiero dimmer have been overheated ones. (still works)
[This message has been edited by Sharkman (edited 04-16-2007).]
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05:47 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Did the firebird dimmer work? It´s alot like the fiero dimmer but better design with a ceramic board and cooling ribbs. And the fiero dimmer only have 2 resistors. Otherwise the fiero dimmer fits in the same spot next too the headlight switch and the "wheel" is the same and can be moved. But my fiero dimmer have been overheated ones. (still works)
The Firebird dimmer will not work, ...see coments below, you have to swap the Fiero Dimmer to the Firebird switch.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-17-2007).]
Mine was a perfect fit. Just plug the fiero one next too the headlight switch. Or do you mean that there where trouble too get the "wheel" too fit in the fiero dimmer.
Had the two apart yesterday too check the difference. And found that the fiero one had a ground spring from the 2:nd connector too the blue board. The firebird one did not have that spring and was built with more resistors. (Fiero only use 2) The plus if I could get the firebird too work would be that the ceramic board and the cooling on there are better. More reliable.
Worked with car electronics some years ago with the Haldex 4 wheel drive system on audi TT. There we used ceramic for the heating and soo on. (A fun note is that we had too modify the product just soo the Audi/Haldex people could turn the car arround with the handbrake durring the pressreleas. Otherwise the control unit wouldn´t allow that)
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02:11 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Had the two apart yesterday too check the difference.
The Fiero dimmer works in conjunction with a giant transistor mounted under the dash that has it's own integrated heat sink. The Firebird dimmer incorporated all the dimming functions into that one ceramic board with the heat sink. They are not interchangeable.
You can change the wheels if you prefer the newer one, by putting the new wheel on the Fiero Dimmer.
I had to edit my comments...You can mount the Fiero dimmer to the Firebird switch... I tried it years ago and it didn't seem to fit, but it can be locked into postition, just takes a little more force than what it does on the Fiero.
Either way you have to remove the Firebird dimmer and replace it with the Fiero dimmer, either the whole switch or the blue board.
But don't thow away those Firebird dimmers, I need them to convert into a socket for the Fiero harness to plug into.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-17-2007).]
The Fiero dimmer works in conjunction with a giant transistor mounted under the dash that has it's own integrated heat sink. The Firebird dimmer incorporated all the dimming functions into that one ceramic board with the heat sink. They are not interchangeable.
You can change the wheels if you prefer the newer one, by putting the new wheel on the Fiero Dimmer.
I had to edit my comments...You can mount the Fiero dimmer to the Firebird switch... I tried it years ago and it didn't seem to fit, but it can be locked into postition, just takes a little more force than what it does on the Fiero.
Either way you have to remove the Firebird dimmer and replace it with the Fiero dimmer, either the whole switch or the blue board.
But don't thow away those Firebird dimmers, I need them to convert into a socket for the Fiero harness to plug into.
Thanks for the info. Will start wiring up everything tonight.
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05:25 AM
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7549 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by jscott1: But don't thow away those Firebird dimmers, I need them to convert into a socket for the Fiero harness to plug into.
I just stuck the Firebird one back into the Fiero switch plate - just in case some Firebird owner wants to swap in a Fiero dash, I could sell them this ready to go light switch
PIN C3/1 TAN/BLACK is for the SHIFT light and worked on my car when I moved the AJAR bulb in the Fiero cluster. I would like to use that in the Firebird cluster as well. Could I put in a wire in the B4 SKIP SHIFT for that?
PIN C3/13 Dark gren should be High temp warning light? Could I use A3 GRAY SECURITY for that? Or is there another one?
Also a bit comfused over the VSS signal. If I take the brown wire in C1, that should be the one right? And no other wire are used from the C1. I have the -96 Trans Am cluster that goes to 250km/h. I gues I need to change the fixed resistor to a potentiometer on that one.
What I found in the Fiero was this pattern: GRAY - illumination BLACK - GROUND PINK/BLACK - POWER (IGNITION ON) There is more, will get back too that later on.
PIN C3/1 TAN/BLACK is for the SHIFT light and worked on my car when I moved the AJAR bulb in the Fiero cluster. I would like to use that in the Firebird cluster as well. Could I put in a wire in the B4 SKIP SHIFT for that?
When I developed the wiring on my 88 it didn't have a working upshift light (88 Fieros don't have upshift lights) so I didn't worry about it. On the Fiero the C3/1 is a switched ground, meaning the wire goes to ground when the light should go on.
When I developed my Firebird wiring I used a V6 cluster which does not have the "skip shift" feature. I have no idea how the light works, if it works by grounding to turn on then you should be able to connect it to the "upshift" on the Fiero, (I assume the 250 kh/h is from the V8). If the Firebird cluster requires 12 volts to turn on the light, you will need a relay.
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PIN C3/13 Dark gren should be High temp warning light? Could I use A3 GRAY SECURITY for that? Or is there another one?
The high temp is another switched ground, you can hook it to the "Security" but I hook it to the "Low Oil Indicator" on A15
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Also a bit comfused over the VSS signal. If I take the brown wire in C1, that should be the one right? And no other wire are used from the C1.
To connect to the Firebird cluster you have to keep the Fiero speedometer board connected to C1... then you have to use the 4000 pulse per mile output on the board to drive the Firebird Speedometer. The 88 Fiero has a wire that provides that (the brown wire on pin M). The 86-87 GT board has that output but it may or may not go to pin N, (I had to find it directly on the board and not at pin N).
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I have the -96 Trans Am cluster that goes to 250km/h. I gues I need to change the fixed resistor to a potentiometer on that one.
Yes, if this is the V8 cluster, (and I believe it is) then you will have to modify the tach the way Mickey_Moose showed earlier.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-18-2007).]
So if I dont have the Fiero cluster anymore... What too do then with the VSS signal?
You are going to have to get a Fiero GT cluster from somewhere. One reason why my Plug and play harness costs what it does is that I have to start with a GT cluster just to get the speedometer board out of it.
You can try hooking the VSS hi (the yellow wire at pin s) directly to the Firebird speedometer at B12, but it will be an unbuffered sine wave. It may work, it may not, I've never tried it. But most likely it will be jumpy and erratic at slow speeds if it works at all. And if your ECM needs a VSS signal, (which it probably does) you won't have one, and forget about cruise control.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-18-2007).]
I gues I will need too find a fiero V6 cluster then.
Another problem... When using the firebird headlight switch I couldn´t get the headligh motors too go down again. I gues the white wire need to be hocked up somewhere. The yellow opens them and the white should close. Should the white wire go too PIN B?
Used this from page 15
[This message has been edited by Sharkman (edited 04-18-2007).]
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06:23 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Originally posted by Sharkman: ... and the white should close. Should the white wire go too PIN B?
Yes, hook the white wire to the "B" terminal on the firebird headlight switch. If you have a connector from a firebird there won't be a terminal in the "B" position you will have to add one.
Or you can hook up a relay as shown in the other drawing. I've done it both ways.
) I kind of just followed Roy's (mrfixit58's) lead and added my own thoughts (so he gets the credit for the ideal of modifing the original Fiero panels) - this was my first 'real' way of trying it this way (using foam/etc.) - see below for build. 
