PIN A13 ORANGE on the firebird side, Can I use one of the PINK/BLACK power. Or should that be a +12V at all times? I donīt have the never cluster with digital trip meter?
If I connect the tach wire without changing the cluster, what reading will I get? Could that harm the tach? I am going to modify the cluster, but I want too know if I should wait to connect the wire until thats done.
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09:25 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
PIN A13 ORANGE on the firebird side, Can I use one of the PINK/BLACK power. Or should that be a +12V at all times? I donīt have the never cluster with digital trip meter?
That's a good quesiton, the Fiero cluster does not have a "hot at all times" wire, the Firebird with the digital cluster needs that or the trip odometer will be lost every time the car is shut off. On the non-digital odometer it's probably alright. The cluster may go through a self-test everytime but that probably won't hurt it. If I were doing it though, I would hook it to a power wire that is hot all the times, since that's what it's expecting, that's how I do my harnesses.
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If I connect the tach wire without changing the cluster, what reading will I get? Could that harm the tach? I am going to modify the cluster, but I want too know if I should wait to connect the wire until thats done.
Since the cluster is expecting a V8 it will calculate RPM based on 4 pulses equals one revolution. Since your V6 only has 3 pules per revolution, the Tach will read 3/4 of the actual RPM. It won't hurt it. You will have to change the calibration as Tim has shown earlier in the thread.
Engine on but I get some ABS INOP and LOW TRAC is on. Not connected on the wires. Just take away the bulbs? Also, I could not find any indication for AJAR but there was a wire for that. FUEL GUAGE - OK SERVICE ENGINE - OK BRAKES - OK HIGH BEAM - OK FASTEN SEATBELT - OK GEN OUTPUT - ?VOLT METER? LOW OIL - NOT CONNECTED BUT LIGHTS UP? AJAR - ? COOLANT TEMP - HAVENT HAD THE CAR RUNNING FOR LONG IP ILLUMINATION - OK, + dimmer SKIP SHIFT - MOVED BULB FROM ABS INOP BUT NOT WIRED UP RH TURN SIGNAL - OK VSS - NEED PARTS. TACH - NEED MOD BUT MOVES LH TURN SIGNAL - OK OIL PRESSURE - OK
Thanks for all the help Jscott. I used the red wire from the headlight switch for A13
There are a lot of wires to keep track of and you are doing very well. Just a few loose ends to tie up.
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Originally posted by Sharkman:
Engine on but I get some ABS INOP and LOW TRAC is on. Not connected on the wires. Just take away the bulbs? Also, I could not find any indication for AJAR but there was a wire for that.
You can remove the bulbs from the ABS INOP and the LOW TRAC if you want to, obviously a Fiero does not have traction control or ABS. I hook the AJAR wire on the Fiero to the LOW TRAC light, just so I don't lose the AJAR function.
By the way, you might have LEDs for the warning lights and they are not so easily removed, if you do then you have to cut the trace on the circuit board.
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GEN OUTPUT - ?VOLT METER?
I hook the gen output on the Fiero to A14 on the Firebird in case the generator, (alternator) needs the turn on feature.
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LOW OIL - NOT CONNECTED BUT LIGHTS UP?
If you saw my posts earlier, I could not find a way to make that light go out permanently, I cut the trace on that LED.
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AJAR - ?
see earlier comment
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SKIP SHIFT - MOVED BULB FROM ABS INOP BUT NOT WIRED UP
see earlier post you might be able to use that as a shift light.
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VSS - NEED PARTS.
By the way, looking at your cluster it is the same as the ones used in the USA with MPH as primary. I don't believe it will be calibrated properly for KPH. You might need the Dakota Digital converter afterall. Let me know how that works out.
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Thanks for all the help Jscott. I used the red wire from the headlight switch for A13
That's how I do it too, smart choice...
Most people are afraid of wiring,
I admire your courage to take it on, You are almost finished. Good Job.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-20-2007).]
Originally posted by jscott1: By the way, looking at your cluster it is the same as the ones used in the USA with MPH as primary. I don't believe it will be calibrated properly for KPH. You might need the Dakota Digital converter afterall. Let me know how that works out.
heh - the kph is printed on the face under the larger mph
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01:42 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I am thinking of buying the Dakota converter both for the Tach and the VSS. That way I wont have problems when I change the engine next time... $80 x 2 + shipping and tax. But the Swedish crown are strong right now so thats OK.
[This message has been edited by Sharkman (edited 04-23-2007).]
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04:58 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I am thinking of buying the Dakota converter both for the Tach and the VSS.
Yeah, like I said I could build the converters into my harness but that would drive up the cost and put it out of reach for most people. But it's a good idea, because if you change the tranny you might need to convert the VSS and if you change the engine you might need to convert the tach.
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06:57 PM
Apr 24th, 2007
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7543 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
I don't know if the cars designed for KPH have the same 4000 ppm VSS senders?? I don't have a clue, if they are then he will be fine.
...it's all 4000 ppm despite what sender is used - the speedo has to receive 4000 ppm to work correctly (that kind of seems to be the GM standard for the speedo input signal for all of their cars). The kph scale is just printed in reference to the mph scale with the conversions factor (or vise versa if you have the metric gage) - a 100 kph reading would roughly indicate 62.5 mph on the gage.
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02:19 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
...it's all 4000 ppm despite what sender is used - the speedo has to receive 4000 ppm to work correctly (that kind of seems to be the GM standard for the speedo input signal for all of their cars).
Okay, so If I got a cluster with 0 -250 KPH as primary then it's going to be just as accurate in the same car as a 0 -155 MPH cluster because both clusters are expecting a 4000 ppm signal?
That's logical, but I didn't know that it worked that way. Then Sharkman should not need any conversion on the sppedo...but he'll need to modify the tach since he has a 3.4 V6 and that cluster was designed for a V8.
But if I use the SGI-5 and the SGI-8 I should be able to calibrate the cluster without modifications? Right?
Unless you change your transmission you won't need the SGI-5.
The SGI-8 will fix the tachometer without cluster modification.
However, it's $80 USD + shipping. The cluster modification costs maybe a couple of dollars for the resistors. If you follow Mickey_Moose's instructions, it's not that hard.
First picture on the part cut away. But the area markt have been cut as well. Most of the cuts have been made by hand because of the lowered windshield. Hard work! Next. Dash in place but need to move the stearing column up. Like this. From the side to show how far in I got the dash.
------------------ Regards SHARKMAN Europe # 1 choptop
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04:34 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Originally posted by Sharkman: From the side to show how far in I got the dash.
That looks very good! My congratulations.
For the next person to make the cut, it might be hard to see, but I put the sawzall on the floor with the blade up and was able to cut through easily. For a Chop top that might be the only way to do it.
Need some help with my SGI-5 unit. I have the 250km/h speed cluster from a Trans Am 96 (V8) And Fiero ECM with a 3.4 camaro V6
Here are the switch options:
Switch#-----OFF------------------------------------------------------------- ON 1--------------SIGNAL GENERATOR SPEED INPUT-------------ECM/PCM SPEED INPUT 2--------------HIGH SENSITIVITY-----------------------------------------LOW SENSITIVITY 3--------------OUT3/4/5 SET FOR LOW SPEED IN---------------OUT 3/4/5 SET FOR HIGH SPEED IN 4--------------SLOWER OUTPUT-----------------------------------------FASTER OUTPUT
Need some help with my SGI-5 unit. I have the 250km/h speed cluster from a Trans Am 96 (V8) And Fiero ECM with a 3.4 camaro V6
Here are the switch options:
Switch# OFF ON 1 SIGNAL GENERATOR SPEED INPUT ECM/PCM SPEED INPUT 2 HIGH SENSITIVITY LOW SENSITIVITY 3 OUT3/4/5 SET FOR LOW SPEED IN OUT 3/4/5 SET FOR HIGH SPEED IN 4 SLOWER OUTPUT FASTER OUTPUT
INPUT / OUTPUT OPTIONS (OC = open collector, closes to ground) SWITCH # 3 SIGNAL IN OUT1 OUT2 OUT3 OUT4 OUT5 ON 64k - 256k 128k AC 128k OC 8000 AC 4000 OC 2000 OC OFF 4k - 16k 8000 AC 8000 OC 4000 AC 4000 OC 2000 OC
Have the yearly inspection next week and need this working before that.
Also, the fiero door lock. Are they + or - operated? Starting to be confused when conecting a new cargard alarm.
VSS sender out is 4k - speedo input is 4k 1=off, 3=off, and I am just guess here 2=on, not sure what 4 is all about - I would guess off
All switches are -ve operated in the Fiero
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 06-27-2007).]
To connect to the Firebird cluster you have to keep the Fiero speedometer board connected to C1... then you have to use the 4000 pulse per mile output on the board to drive the Firebird Speedometer. The 88 Fiero has a wire that provides that (the brown wire on pin M). The 86-87 GT board has that output but it may or may not go to pin N, (I had to find it directly on the board and not at pin N).
I have been tinkering with a couple clusters and through book research I've seen that the Fiero VSS is a 4000 PPM Generator. So it should work. It shows a resistor in the breakdown of the speedo circuit but that's just current limiting. Don't see why a direct connect wouldn't work. If you already have the SGI-5 then use it for tire calibration.
I have been tinkering with a couple clusters and through book research I've seen that the Fiero VSS is a 4000 PPM Generator.
It's true the Fiero VSS is a 4,000 Pulse Per Mile generator, but it is a sine wave, (or even triangular wave) that increases in amplitude with speed. At low speeds your speedometer is going to be very erratic. The buffer curcuit in the Fiero Stock circuit buffers that wave into a square wave. It also has a divide by two circuit to send 2,000 PPM to the ECM and the Cruise control, (if you have it.). Without a VSS signal the Fiero ECM will set a code. I don't know about the 3.4, but I'm guessing it will as well.
So yes you can connect the VSS directly up to the Camaro/Firebird cluster but it's not going to work as well, if at all.
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05:07 PM
Synthesis Member
Posts: 12207 From: Jordan, MN Registered: Feb 2002
02.00 night to sunday here... The car alarm is installed and working, left on the car before the yearly inspection is to get the ventilation and dash in. That will be done tomorrow. Pics then.
Good night.
------------------ Regards SHARKMAN Europe # 1 choptop
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08:00 PM
Jul 1st, 2007
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7543 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by Sharkman: I am pretty sure that the door locks are + operated
opps, my bad, I didn't pay close enough attention to the question - however, you should use relay's on the door locks, then it does not matter if it's + or -
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02:26 AM
PFF
System Bot
Haagster Member
Posts: 1378 From: Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by jscott1: So yes you can connect the VSS directly up to the Camaro/Firebird cluster but it's not going to work as well, if at all.
I will confirm that connecting the VSS directly to a Firebird cluster from a 4.9/4T60e combination (via ECM - not what I said, but what I meant ) does work well (learned from trial-by-error) - if that helps any...
[This message has been edited by Haagster (edited 07-01-2007).]
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07:12 AM
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7543 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by Haagster: I will confirm that connecting the VSS directly to a Firebird cluster from a 4.9/4T60e combination does work well (learned from trial-by-error) - if that helps any...
I can also confirm this: 4.9/Isuzu to Firebird...direct connect from the Caddy ECM to the Firebird gauges...the Caddy ECM does the filtering...
...the tach is not a direct connect from the 4.9 to the Firebird - I made a previous post in this thread about these problems.
The Fiero VSS is not compatiable, as jscott1 meantioned...
...also, you can not, with the 4.9/Firebird gauges, use the Fiero cruise setup without using the Fiero speedo for the 2000 ppm output
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 07-01-2007).]
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12:19 PM
Haagster Member
Posts: 1378 From: Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: ...also, you can not, with the 4.9/Firebird gauges, use the Fiero cruise setup without using the Fiero speedo for the 2000 ppm output
Doesn't the Caddy ECM have the cruise function? I don't recall without looking at my notes, but I remember Rockcrawl told me that I would just need to lengthen the wiring to the ECM to use the the cruise circuit - and it would would work better than the Fiero ever did (had problems with the Fiero stuff).
[This message has been edited by Haagster (edited 07-01-2007).]
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12:35 PM
DIY_Stu Member
Posts: 2337 From: Republic of TX Registered: Jun 2007
Sorry, no pics yet. The yearly inspection is tomorrow morning and I still have some small thing to do. Will take some pics tonight when the dash is in place. Had to change the ventilation one last time... Doors not done but will do that after the inspection.
Dash done... But I have some problems The speedo donīt work. No signal to the SGI-5? Green light always on. Do I need to use the ground from the same location? Tach works but acts strange when I let of the gas sometimes. Temp gauge donīt work.
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06:05 PM
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7543 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by DIY_Stu: The caddy ECM filters the speedo signal. The Caddy has a cruise control output but IIRC it's an 8000ppm signal.
not according to the wiring diagrams - [u]the 4.9 ECM does not have a cruise output signal,[u] nor does it need one, as cruise is done internal to it and does not need a seperate cruise module like the stock Fiero has. As a side note, the only outputs the 4.9 ECM has are Pins B/11 and B/12, both @ 4000 ppm, says so right on the diagram.
Sharkman - sorry if you meantioned this, but what engine are you running? I assume you did the tach mod, the V8 clusters uses the ECM to supply the tach signal in the Firebird and it will not work even close to correctly in the Fiero. As for the speedo problem - it could be the switches on your converter are not set up correctly.
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07:54 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Sharkman - sorry if you meantioned this, but what engine are you running? I assume you did the tach mod, the V8 clusters uses the ECM to supply the tach signal in the Firebird and it will not work even close to correctly in the Fiero. As for the speedo problem - it could be the switches on your converter are not set up correctly.
Isn't he running a 3.4 V6? He should not be having this problem.
Also, the 93-97 LT1 (V8) clusters will work just fine with the Fiero. I'm running a 97, 155 mph cluster in my stock 88GT and it works perfectly.
I think you meant to say the LS1 (98-2002) won't work right with the Fiero.
VSS sender out is 4k - speedo input is 4k 1=off, 3=off, and I am just guess here 2=on, not sure what 4 is all about - I would guess off
All switches are -ve operated in the Fiero
I have tried changing switch 1 too on but no luck. I think I need some more help here. Could the problem be that the ground is from another location in the car. Both for the VSS and the Tach?
Here are the switch options:
Switch#-----OFF------------------------------------------------------------- ON 1--------------SIGNAL GENERATOR SPEED INPUT-------------ECM/PCM SPEED INPUT 2--------------HIGH SENSITIVITY-----------------------------------------LOW SENSITIVITY 3--------------OUT3/4/5 SET FOR LOW SPEED IN---------------OUT 3/4/5 SET FOR HIGH SPEED IN 4--------------SLOWER OUTPUT-----------------------------------------FASTER OUTPUT
not according to the wiring diagrams - [u]the 4.9 ECM does not have a cruise output signal,[u] nor does it need one, as cruise is done internal to it and does not need a seperate cruise module like the stock Fiero has. As a side note, the only outputs the 4.9 ECM has are Pins B/11 and B/12, both @ 4000 ppm, says so right on the diagram. 
