quote Originally posted by Songman: This may have been covered already somewhere that I missed... You are using the steering wheel with controls on it. Did you change the steering column or just run wires for the controls? Also, you still got an airbag in there? Surely that is not functional too, if you do. I would think that would require lots more mods!

Woooo hoo I own Page 4

Songman, actually you are the first to ask about the radio controls. They will be functional. The Firebird column uses a slip ring for the radio and airbag wires. I have a slip ring as well as an entire Firebird column, and considered using it. But it would require a lot of work to install them so I decided on a different path.

Instead, for the radio I intend to just run a flexible wire up to the steering wheel. The radio controls are a three wire analog system that applies voltage through some resistors to each switch. I plan to use a phone cord or simlilar flexible wire, and with the size of the airbag should not be easily visible wrapped around the column.

In theory, the airbag could be wired up the same way. The only thing needed to operate the airbag is a small module located in the center of the car, simliar to a shock sensor for an alarm. No other components are needed.

The only question is whether or not I want a pyrotecnic device in front of my face that I connected using make shift wires? Probably not, so the airbag is just for show, (the steering wheel won't look right without it) and to make the horn work.

As for the fitment of the steering wheel, it has a key that allows it to fit on the Firebird column only one way, and not at all on the Fiero column. About 5 miuntes with the grinding dremel tool and I was able to remove the key and it fits on the Fiero column perfectly.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-14-2002).]

Here's the test mule with the dash, dash filler and the console in place. It looks like it belongs there.

DECENT!!!

man, that looks nice... I have a feeling this will suddenly become a very common swap!

------------------
steve@digitalfusion.on.ca

HOly moly, keep this thing up! That looks great!!

Screw the 300Zx, why spend 2000 when you can get a just as nice lookin firebird one for 200 bucks...hope it's not too complicated

Ok few q's that you can post here and PM me w/

~Will stock fiero Radio work?
~Which fiberglass in specific needs to be cut?
~Can this be done WITHOUT touching the cars structure AT ALL? (entinre swap)
~How were climate controlls adapted to the Fiero ones?
~Is the steering wheel a NESSESSITY to put on? if so is it hard? What is needed?
~How hard is it to adapt the Fiero gauges to Firebird gaauges?

So far I understand that the Door panels are Dash are easy to mount but the wiring for p-windows and acctually switch adapting is the complicated part

I will probably do the FULL swap into my car but i'd need to get that website running so i can see it for myself, I have no fear if improvising and electronics but I do need to know exactly what extra i'd need to make this all work that won't come with the dash

I understand that i need

~Dash + mounting frame
~Center Console
~Door panels
~Gauge Cluster

And all of these parts have to have all of the hardware still on them (Swtiches and nobs)

Please someone KEEP A DIARY Or something...i'd like to read everything that was experianced for this swap

That would be SOO COOL

Thanks A LOT

keep up the great work!

------------------
Steven Rossi
2M4 Cadero Converted GT

mrfixit58... I am still willing to make that webpage for you. You also have a PM.

All I need is the pictures. And I will try to get most of the information off this page for the details on the swap, but what I can't get off this site, I will get you to fill in.

This thread is like you both's work.... A M A Z I N G !!!!!!!

Smooth!!

------------------

SmoothFieroGT@Yahoo.com
Have you RATED me today??

I have a question, and I am fairly sure it has not yet been covered.

I am not a very tall man, and the standard Fiero interior is almost at that breaking point for me visibility wise. How much higher or lower is the top of the dash at the gauge pod? If it is higher I would most likely have a problem, if it is lower I am all over this one

Oh yea one more.
MrFixit,
Your method actually pushes the dash back a little further correct? This has a major advantage as it will work with the shifter better I think, but with your method, how hard would it be to use the firebird's door panels?

Thanks,
Randy

[This message has been edited by 8Ball (edited 11-15-2002).]

the one question I have, is...

WHY THE HECK WOULD ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND ACTUALLY WANT TO KEEP THE PIECE OF JUNK STOCK FIERO RADIO?????

jeez man, get a cd player. LOL.

------------------
steve@digitalfusion.on.ca

AnzFiero - That's the beauty of this swap, the parts are cheap and the results can be impressive.

stevenrossi - The stock Fiero radio will work. So will any GM din and a half radio. I selected a Firebird cassette because I wanted something cheap that worked with the steering wheel controls. I didn't want a GM CD player because I am custom mounting a DVD player in TBD location.

I have not cut any structure at all. That is the difference between my method and mrfixit58, (Roy) But I am limited on the dash placement, but I think it works better with the firebird door panels.

The steering wheel is stritcly optional. If you look a few pages back I posted a pic with the fiero steering wheel still in-place. It doesn't look bad, but I wanted the complete Firebird look.

The gauges are pretty easy with the exception of the gas gauge with resolution still pending on that.

The environmental controls will be modified Firebird controls. The vacuum switch will be replaced by an electric switch. Both Roy and I are still working on our switches.

8ball - the rounded part of the dash is maybe an inch higher than the stock fiero. The level part is about the same. Unless you are currently driving by looking through the steering wheel, it shouldn't be a problem.

mrfixit58's dash does sit maybe an inch closer to the windshield and makes the center console integration with the shifter easier, but I think I have a design solution that will work as well. Here is a first look at that.

What you are seeing is probably not the final placement of the console. It will probably have to be further forward, but I won't know until I get the trim piece with the shift boot tomorrow.

By the way, I propose that Firebird/Trans am retrofited Fieros be called "Trans Fieros"

Jonathan (Jscott1)

(edited to add information)

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-15-2002).]

quote Originally posted by soup: mrfixit58... I am still willing to make that webpage for you. You also have a PM. All I need is the pictures. And I will try to get most of the information off this page for the details on the swap, but what I can't get off this site, I will get you to fill in.

Soup -- Thanks for the offer. I just may take you up on it. I'll know more after I pull the Firebird interior out of my test mule and start puttng into my daily driver. This is going to start a week from today. The last thing I want to do is start a "how to" web site if I haven't figured how to do it. I'll keep you posted.

[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 11-15-2002).]

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: Personally, I have no problem cutting metal away to make the Firebird dash fit. I never plan on going back to the Fiero interior once the conversion is complete anyway. The difference between me and Jonathan is I'm doing all my experimentation on a junk car that will wind up in the crusher once I'm finished. Jonathan is bravely performing his transformation directly on his personal car. Once you see both methods, you can pick the one that's right for you. Most likely, you'll pick and choose what you like from each and build it your way. Back to work, Roy

Let me add to this. Roy is right. When I started I had no idea if this would work or not, therefore I was not inclined to start cutting on a perfectly good 88 GT. He had the advantage of having a parts car to experiment with. That is the difference in our approach.

Now that the end is in sight I wouldn't be apposed to doing a little cutting, but in general I prefer to cut on the Firebird part and not the Fiero.

mrfixit--my question is how high is that center console, does it make it hard to reach the shifter?

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: Soup -- Thanks for the offer. I just may take you up on it. I'll know more after I pull the Firebird interior out of my test mule and start puttng into my daily driver. This is going to start a week from today. The last thing I want to do is start a "how to" web site if I haven't figured how to do it. I'll keep you posted. [This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 11-15-2002).]

Sounds good. I can't wait to see both of you complete this. I think this will become THE most common swap for the Fiero.

I went down yesterday to check out the local/provincial wrecker. According to their database they had ONE in the WOLE PROVINCE! They wanted $600!! for the dash alone. The guy also said there were small scratches on the one corner of the dash, and there were no HVAC controller, vents, or anything else in the dash. So when I get the cash I think I will be posting on here, and checking out wreckers in the states.

quote Originally posted by soup: Sounds good. I can't wait to see both of you complete this. I think this will become THE most common swap for the Fiero. I went down yesterday to check out the local/provincial wrecker. According to their database they had ONE in the WOLE PROVINCE! They wanted $600!! for the dash alone. The guy also said there were small scratches on the one corner of the dash, and there were no HVAC controller, vents, or anything else in the dash. So when I get the cash I think I will be posting on here, and checking out wreckers in the states.

I would like to see the Firebird/trans am interior become the swap that everyone wants to do, like big brakes or big wheels. So often interiors are neglected even in show cars. I hate to see a really nice Fiero and then you look inside and it's stock pods everywhere.

Oh yeah, I wanted to add that there are some deals out there in the junk yards for Firebird parts, but if I were to add up what I spent on MY conversion it would probably be in the range of other interior swaps, probably $1000, -$1,500.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-15-2002).]

Wow! Fantastic thread. I've been out of the loop lately, and just now got to read all of it. You guys have made some very impressive progress, my hat is off to you!

Bryce
88 GT

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Oh yeah, I wanted to add that there are some deals out there in the junk yards for Firebird parts, but if I were to add up what I spent on MY conversion it would probably be in the range of other interior swaps, probably $1000, -$1,500. [COLOR=Blue(edited 11-15-2002).][/COLOR]

OUCH!!!

I bought a dash with a blown air bag, gauge cluster and lower panel (the piece below the steering column) for $40.

I bought a console and door handles for $20

I bought the busted up door panels, environmental conrol panel, and headlight switch for $35.

So far I've spent about $100 on fiberglass, fiber reinforced Bondo, and plastic Bondo.

I expect to spend about $100 on misc stuff like paint and junk (being real conservative with this estimate).

So that's $295 do far.

I expect to spend upwards of $200-300 to cover the door panels unless I decide to do it myself.

The seats I want from Mr, Mikes will cost ne $500.

I want new carpet which sill run $125.

Total makeover: $1200.

Again, that TOTAL makeover including seats, carpet, door panels, AND custom dash and console.

I think that's real reasonable.

thats not too bad...if you use the stock shifter I think it would be at just about the right level. thanks for the info. I am just waiting for you brave guys to do it before I start It looks like it is coming along though.

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: OUCH!!! ... Total makeover: $1200. Again, that TOTAL makeover including seats, carpet, door panels, AND custom dash and console. I think that's real reasonable.

Okay I didn't itemize because I have been afraid to, but my estimate includes a color change from Beechwood to Gray so it's a little high.

Also I did all my shopping from the comfort of my living room. Definitely more expensive than the searching the yards.

Here are my rough estimates from memory(all prices include shipping):

Perfect Dash with a non-blown air bag = $400

gauge cluster = $40

Gage and radio Surround = $50

lower panel (the piece below the steering column) Still looking for one of these

console = came with dash

door handles = $30

door panels = $100

Window/lock swithes = $50

environmental conrol panel = $50

headlight switch = $35.

fiberglass, fiber reinforced Bondo, and plastic Bondo = $0

misc stuff like paint and junk plus wire/solder and stuff = $100

Other crap I've bought:

Steering Wheel $80

Cassette Radio = $45

Airbags = $120

Color Change crap:

New Trim = $75

Gray Carpet = $35

Seat Covers (88 original cloth) = $300

That's about $855 for the basic parts and another $245 for the optional stuff and another $410 for the color change. A cool $1500 for a complete interior makeover.

No question it can be done for less. But as some people are discovering the firebird parts are not as plentiful in the yards as you might expect. I didn't feel like looking so I got most all my stuff off of eBay.

- Jonathan (Jscott1)

I can't believe this went to the second page. Tisk Tisk people. oh...ummm... bump?

I think i've found a place where i can get the parts from, but I don't think i have $1200USD for this...i hope i can get all the parts for cheaper

------------------
Steven Rossi
2M4 Cadero Converted GT

that looks sweet, but I was just wondering what goes on the upright part between the seats? I see the armrest part but what covers the part of the wall between the seats? heres the pic im talking about: https://www.fiero.nl/uploads/imgs2003/Console13.JPG

quote Originally posted by wpgfiero: that looks sweet, but I was just wondering what goes on the upright part between the seats? I see the armrest part but what covers the part of the wall between the seats? heres the pic im talking about: https://www.fiero.nl/uploads/imgs2003/Console13.JPG

After posting that picture I realized that the console is not going to work in that location. It needs to be about 3 inches further forward. To confirm the console fitment I spent about 30 minutes sitting in a brand new 2002 Collector's Edition Trans Am at the dealership, (probably the last brand new Trans Am I will ever sit in )

Anyway To get this further forward console placement I am going to have to cut the metal supports on the Fiero over the gas tank. I have come to the conclusion that there is no other way to make the Firebird console work without significantly changing the Firebird console.

All that to say that I can probably put my computer back in the center and still use what's left of the Fiero console as a cover. As a rule I worry about the structural/mechanical, and electrical aspects of the swap first then the cosmetic things last. I consider the piece in the middle to be cosmetic.

I hope to have some pictures of the new fitment of the console before the weekend is over. And also I have put the stock shifter back on in place of Rodney's short shifter. I think it will work better since it has a slight angle to the rear. If only it wasn't so dang tall.

- Jonathan (Jscott1)

quote Originally posted by wpgfiero: that looks sweet, but I was just wondering what goes on the upright part between the seats? I see the armrest part but what covers the part of the wall between the seats? heres the pic im talking about: https://www.fiero.nl/uploads/imgs2003/Console13.JPG

To hide that area, I built a cover out of fiberglass. I combined it with a cover for the portion of the tunnel that the Firebird console won't cover. I made the form out o stryrofoam and covered it with masking tape as a barrier between the foam and the resin. When set, the foam was removed and the tape just peeled off. The fiberglass won't stick to masking tape.

Hope this helps,
Roy

Roy,

That looks great!! Your fiberglass skills are far better than you will freely admit. The challenge is for me to come up with something that looks at least as good as that.

I am still toying with the idea of a functional glove compartment where the computer normally is, but I'm not sure it's needed.

I know Roy will have two glove compartments in the dash along with a fucntional one in the console, (although shallow). But still you can never have to much storage, especially in our little cars.

I need to do some more cutting before I can try fitting my console again.

- Jonathan (JScott1)

WOW, a BIG thumbs up to both jscott1 and mrfixit58.

Both your projects look awesome!

------------------

1988GT T-Tops, 5spd, Loaded

There's something that I have thought of for a while in thoughts for a custom interior for myself, but I don't have the skills to make it come true yet...
How about a cover that covers the entire back wall and raises in the center for the ECM and the seats sorta sink back into it... Something like on a C5 Corvette convertible. Just make the bottom part of the mold fit the back of the Firebird console.

After a whole weekend of cutting I was able to slap everything back together for another fit check of the console. There is still some final adjustments to make but it looks like it's going to work in this location.

I'm still deciding whether or not to put the computer back in the center. We'll see when I trim the Fiero console to use as a cover.

I still have to make the environmental controls. They are just standing in for the photo opportunity. But I'd say I made some progress for the weekend.

Stay tuned for more.

Jonathan (JScott1)

------------------

Man, that shifter looks awfully close to the dashboard.

Holy Cow, that looks awsome. I have always loved the wrap around gauge sets. That new dash just works so well in the car. Kinda reminds me of the 89-90 Fiero. I will be following this thread.

------------------
David hotrodfiero@shaw.ca
85GT 2.9 4spd

www.david.westcoastfieros.com

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Man, that shifter looks awfully close to the dashboard.

Not really. Of course the shifter is in the same place it always was, it's the dashboard that's gotten closer. The shifter is basically in the same relative position to the dash as in the Firebird. Maybe an inch closer in mine versus Roy's but since I changed back to stock shifter there is plenty of room.

Jonathan, could you do me a huge favor? Next time you take pictures, can you put the shifter in first gear and show the distance you still have between the console and the shifter?

Not a big deal, just curious of the actual play still there.

jscott1, if you think you want any more space for the shifter, try one from a 84, they have bent rearward of almost an inch.

------------------

1988GT T-Tops, 5spd, Loaded

Mrfixit, jscott, I cannot believe you two hijacked my thread . Well I had no idea that anyone had gotten as far as you two did when I started this. Oh well, looks like I will have to jump on the band wagon then. As for those who have shown interest in this project, like I said when I complete mine I will then at that time, see what will be needed to make a kit where all you have to do is get a dash from a local junk yard, and then install, or I may find out that all the modifications can be done by anyone and just go onto possibly designing an original dash for the Fiero. But with all the informantion at hand and looking at cost for a original dash to be massproduced, I feel that the Firebird conversion is the best option for the dollar. You have so many options as far as final look just by mixing Fiero And Firebird intrior parts for a long list of combos that will make each car unique, depending on which approach was taken to install this dash.

quote Originally posted by OH10fiero: Mrfixit, jscott, I cannot believe you two hijacked my thread . Well I had no idea that anyone had gotten as far as you two did when I started this. Oh well, looks like I will have to jump on the band wagon then...

For those that can't tell from the grin OH10fiero is joking about the thread hijacking He invited us to this thread back on page 2.

When I started this project I didn't know of any complete Firebird swaps and then I discovered Mrfixit58 was working on one. We were working together in secret when I couldn't resist the temptation of this thread to reveal my progress.

Even though I used a money is no object approach to my parts collection, Mrfixit58 (Roy) has spent about half what I did to achieve similar/better results.

After Thankgiving there should be two working "Trans Fieros" cruising around and hopefully it will be the swap that everyone wants to do.

- Jonathan (JScott1)

Hopefully, if this works out good for you guys. By spring, I will do this swap as well as a 4.9, and have the first Trans Cadero... or Cadero Am... or Trans Cadero Am.

quote Originally posted by soup: Hopefully, if this works out good for you guys. By spring, I will do this swap as well as a 4.9, and have the first Trans Cadero... or Cadero Am... or Trans Cadero Am.

Correction....2nd! LOL

I'm going to do it but probably not any time soon

------------------
Steven Rossi
2M4 Cadero Converted GT

quote Originally posted by soup: Jonathan, could you do me a huge favor? Next time you take pictures, can you put the shifter in first gear and show the distance you still have between the console and the shifter? Not a big deal, just curious of the actual play still there.

Here's what it looks like in first gear

Still plenty of room in my opinion.

Here is second gear.

A short shifter with an angle on it would be better...does anyone have a picture of the '84 shifter? it might be better