Whats that cool looking blue thing behind the console? ARe you gonna paint it grey too?

quote Originally posted by AznFiero: Whats that cool looking blue thing behind the console? ARe you gonna paint it grey too?

(answering for Roy) That blue thing is Roy's custom cover for the computer. It is painted body color and will stay that way.

By the way, I was sidelined last week and hope to have some progress pics to show soon. Roy's interior is looking good, so I have to have something equally dramatic before I post pics again.

- Jonathan (Jscott1)

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you know after reading this thread for weeks, I have come to a conclusion. I hate you guys why can't my interior look like that? you bastards! No but really your dash conversions look great and thank for all the pics and info. As has been said before I think this will become a popular Fiero conversion, but for now your guys have the nicest Fiero interiors I've seen. Oh and just as a side note the camaro interior looks a lot cheaper than the firebird. I like the round vents on the pontiac model a lot better.

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Josh Munilla

What I am looking for/to do is to add an on board computer, like the 1990 TGP, or a Cutlass supreme DIC( if you like buttons). Right now , there's no way it will fit. I would also very much like to find a way to add in a HUD. The interior of this car should reflect the proformance that the has, and it doesn't. I would have to come up with some drawings, but if I had my way, the interior would look like the Batmobile. Lots of high tech **** , and very sleek lookn

quote Originally posted by jscott1: By the way, I was sidelined last week and hope to have some progress pics to show soon. Roy's interior is looking good, so I have to have something equally dramatic before I post pics again.

It isn't a competition, is it? I, for one, am absolutely impressed with the progress and innovation on both cars. I only wish I had thought of it first... There is a 97 Camaro in a local yard that I can get the parts from (fairly cheap), so I am reading here with great interest. Please, post even 'undramatic' information. Enquiring minds want to know

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quote Originally posted by Haagster: It isn't a competition, is it? I, for one, am absolutely impressed with the progress and innovation on both cars. I only wish I had thought of it first... There is a 97 Camaro in a local yard that I can get the parts from (fairly cheap), so I am reading here with great interest. Please, post even 'undramatic' information. Enquiring minds want to know

Competition? No, not really. Jonathan and I have been emailing each other for several months about our projects. We usually coorespond 3-4 times a week or more, depending on what we've been doing. We've shared ideas, sucesses, set backs and words of encouragement along the way. And, become frends. What we have done is motivate each other. Just when one of use was ready to throw in the towel, it seemed the other was there to share enough of a success story to get the juices flowing again. Honestly, I don't know how much of the project I would have had completed by now if it weren't for Jonathan.

It's good to have a partner!

Roy

You guys both have awesome interiors and beautiful cars to put them in:

A bright red 88 GT and a blue 87 GT...

Keep up the good work...

kv

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quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: Competition? No, not really. Jonathan and I have been emailing each other for several months about our projects. We usually coorespond 3-4 times a week or more, depending on what we've been doing. We've shared ideas, sucesses, set backs and words of encouragement along the way. And, become frends. What we have done is motivate each other. Just when one of use was ready to throw in the towel, it seemed the other was there to share enough of a success story to get the juices flowing again. Honestly, I don't know how much of the project I would have had completed by now if it weren't for Jonathan. It's good to have a partner! Roy

I couldn't have said it better. Roy has been a constant source of inspiration for me. There are many times I just wanted to give up but after seeing something he had done I go out to the garage and do one little thing just to make some progress.

I would like to have something interesting to show the forum next time I post. I have a few surprises left in my arsenal, and they are nearly ready to reveal.

stay tuned...

Jonathan (Scott1)

I just had to post to let you guy know that I FINALLY got to take my car out of the garage and drive it for the first time with the new dash and console. IT'S SO COOOOOL!

My first trip was to our monthly Suncoast Fiero club meeting so I got to spend about 65 miles round trip behind the dash. It was day light there, night time on the way home. The dash was a big hit at the meeting. And, I gotta say, there isn't the first rattle in the whole setup.

I'm driving it to work tomorrow to show a few people then it's back in the garage until I get the door panels finished. I also need to replace some subframe bushings and fix the ever growing exhaust leak but, that's another topic.

I'm also still working on my documentation for the conversion. I've already got ten pages of text and photos and I haven't even started the door panels. I hope to have all the work and documentation completed by mid January and on a web site soon after that.

Talk to you later,
Roy

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: I just had to post to let you guy know that I FINALLY got to take my car out of the garage and drive it for the first time with the new dash and console. IT'S SO COOOOOL! Roy

Contratulations on getting that hangar queen back out on the road

I'm kidding or course, it was actually my car that spent 4 months in the garage undergoing heavy modification. You took the accelerated approach and did it in a few weeks.

I drove my car to the annual Lone Star Fiero Christmas Party last weekend and even though I'm not done yet, there was a lot of admiration. It is an odd feeling driving a car after a transformation like this. It feels like a completely different car.

Good luck on your door panels, the fiberglass method still seems like a lot of work to me. I should be back in the garage this week so look for progress pics starting soon.

Jonathan (JScott1)

I can what Columbus felt like when he discovered the new world.

I have a few progress pics to rescue this thread from page 5:

I got Jelly2M8's short shifter installed:

It is WAY better than the stock shifter. Thanks a Million!!

If you were to make another one, (for the dash positioned where I have it), I would suggest to angle it about an inch to the rear and it would be perfect.

My approach to the console has been to take the Firebird console and hog it out so that it can slip over the Fiero tunnel. This is a little different than what Roy did, but I am using the 97-2002 Firebird console that is a little bigger.

Since I am not good with fiberglass I decided to use the upper portion of the Fiero console for the computer cover:

Here's a quick look at them together:

Nothing's bolted down yet, but it's fitting close enough to give me confidence that it's all going to work together.

Stay tuned for the final assembly shots.

Jonathan (JScott1)

[edited for spelling]
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[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-15-2002).]

Jonathan -- You getting there. I'm still looking for a good deal on a later model console like yours. One nice thing about the computer/tunnel cover that I made is that, with only a slight modification, I can use the wider console. Are you still going to be able to use the front passenger cup holder once the console in in place?

I have no real news to report. Well nothing too pretty anyway. I did install the door handle and lock on the passenger side door and cut the holes for the door speakers. I'm also working on replacing the Firebird fuel gauge within the cluster with an older model GM unit that isn't looking for a signal from the ECM.

I'm taking lots pictures and documenting my progress along the way. So far I've got 11 pages written with pictures in a Word document. I hope to have it all on a web site by the first part of next year.

Keep up the good work,

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Roy :D
Blue 87 GT w/ 4th generation Firebird interior.
Suncoast Fieros

Roy - Thanks for the words of encouragement. Since I got my new digital camera I am taking tons of pics to contribute to the web once that get's set up.

I am right in the middle of securing the carpet to the tunnel. Without the console support "skelton" there is nothing to attach the carpet to or prevent it from sagging. So I am drilling holes and securing the carpet with sheet metal screws, (I believe this is what Roy did as well).

However, drilling into the Fiero center tunnel is a bit unsettling. Even though there are several layers of metal before you get to the gas tank, and I am checking the clearance several times, I half expect to smell gas each time the drill breaks through.

I was tempted to rip out the supports for the cruise control module and subwoofer because they tend to make the carpet sag even worse, and there is plenty of space for them up under the Firebird dash. And I have just succumbed to ripping out the cruise control module. I am about 5 minutes away from ripping out the sub amp as well. I don't know how pre-88s look but my 88 coupe has the bump for the cruise control even though it didn't come with cruise control, (ironically I mounted the after market cruise control module in the factory bump but that's another story.)

Anyway my footwells are going to have a lot more room than the standard 88. I will actually be able to see my driver's foot for a change.

On the passenger side I have notched out the dash enough that the cup holder will still deploy, (even though it's more forward with respect to the dash than it should be).

Those later model consoles tend to be hard to find, (or expensive) because the Firebird owners like to upgrade theirs to the later model to get the three extra cupholders. (only one extra cupholder survives in the Fiero version, the other two were for the back seat)

I will post some progress pics later tonight.

- Jonathan (JScott1)

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This is getting frustrating. Roy's dash position seems to work a whole lot better. Nothing is bolted down yet in the final position becuase it's going to have to be a compromise between getting the dash high enough, and the console rearward enough.

Neither is ideal and it's not 100% representative of the Firebird interior. Then again I didn't set out to duplicate the Firebird 100%, only to give my car a more modern look, which I think I have succeeded in doing.

By tomorrow or te next day I should have everything bolted down in the final locations. The dash will be a little higher and a little more forward than what you see in this picture. And the console will sit a little lower, so the cigarette lighter will not be buried under the dash as bad as it appears here.

And I will be able to use the forward cupholder.

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: I'm taking lots pictures and documenting my progress along the way. So far I've got 11 pages written with pictures in a Word document. I hope to have it all on a web site by the first part of next year.

I am still willing to put this on the web for you. Whenever you finish gathering all the information and pictures you need, just PM me, or email me. My email is in my profile. (dont want to post it on here due to spam)

Keep up the good work guys. I think we are ALL very excited for you both to get these finished. You will both be credited with such a great contribution to this ever-growing community of ours.

Hello all,

I stumbled onto this site the other day while I was searching to see if anybody was making any Pantera kits for the Fiero. No Pantera kits, that I could find, but found alot of cool custom kits for Fieros. Also I love what mrfixit58 and jscott1 are doing with the Firebird dash install. The Fieros interior was the one thing that kept me from purchasing one new back in 1985. Couldn't stand the boringness of the interiors. Now the interior you guys are working has....well lets say a Fiero GT may be my next toy .

I had a couple thoughts to throw at you guys. (Hope ya don't mind a newbie butting in) The dash part looks awesome, like it was made to be in the Fiero. As for the door panels, i'm of the mindset try not to do much hacking if at all possible. Just makes things look better when its time to put the finishing touches on. Has anybody thought about door panels from say 1996-2002 Grand Am or Grand Prix? They look very similar to the Firebird door and are alot less shorter in length than those long ass Firebird doors. The Grand Am dash looks very cool too, may be another possible swap?

Grand Prix pics. Click the 360 view for a virtual interior view. Rotate the view to the doors panels. They look very similar to what mrfixit and jscot have done to their F-bird doors, lengthwise.
http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/details/pontiac02grandprix/surround.html

Grand Am pics.
http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/details/pontiac02grandam/surround.html

Cool site for new car info. I dont think the Grand Am or Grand Prix interior has changed from 1996 to 2003.

Here's a better pic of the Grand Am dash, a 2000. http://www.geocities.com/camman86/grandaminterior.html

Just some food for hungry minds. Keep up the good work. Both your interiors are gonna look great when you get them finished.

Looking good, looking GOOD!

Now, I have an Idea for the 2nd phase....

Would require a longer front cable, and mounting the handle.

Cam70Dude -- Thanks for the complement. I understand your comment about the door panels. It's very possible that there are other panels that could work just as well. Stick around, you may catch the Fiero bug.

jelly2m8 -- I've already thought of the center pull parking brake. But, unfortunatly, there just wasn't enough gain in it to make me want to overcome the additional clearance issues, the added expense and work. Though, it would have been pretty cool.

Roy

Cam70Dude - Welcome to the forum and thanks for the compliment. A Pantera kit would be awesome. After I finish this, my coupe is going to become my project car, and a rebody is probably in the cards.

A lot of people have expressed concern about the door panels. Even the master builder MrFixit58 (Roy) decided not to mess with the Firebird door panels, so the pressure is on me to make it look decent. I had a little time to hit them with the heat gun and I am pretty confident I can close out the ends and make them look decent.

I think that is a lot easier than trying to make shorter panels work or reworking the Fiero panels as Roy is doing. But, that's just my opinion.

Jelly2M8 - that short shifter is the Shizznat! Everybody should have a short shifter in their Fiero. Makes it shift so much more crisper. A slightly different boot design would help, but once I figure out the best way to fold the Firebird boot it will look even better.

I too though about moving the parking brake, but it would be a big hassle and I'm not sure any better. Kind of looks cleaner not having the handle there. And besides, my brake handle is almost completely hidden between the door panel and the seat, so it works as a theft deterrent. No thief would ever figure out how to release the brake, if they couldn't even see it. And I have something else in mind to go there.

I still can't believe it's the same car sometimes!!

By the way, comments, courtesy bumps and positive ratings are all apreciated

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[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-18-2002).]

Wow....

That's all I can say. I am in awe of ow sweet this looks.

I currently live in an apartment and have no garage. It's in Texas, so I'm not worried about snow or anything... but I definitely want to do this swap. Would this be possible outside with limited tools?

Is this possible to do without welding any additional mounting points? Can I just get some custom brackets fab'd?

I'm getting an 88GT T-Tops in January. If we're going to be cruising around with the tops off... I WANT THIS INTERIOR!!!

quote Originally posted by AgaricX: Wow.... That's all I can say. I am in awe of ow sweet this looks. I currently live in an apartment and have no garage. It's in Texas, so I'm not worried about snow or anything... but I definitely want to do this swap. Would this be possible outside with limited tools? Is this possible to do without welding any additional mounting points? Can I just get some custom brackets fab'd? I'm getting an 88GT T-Tops in January. If we're going to be cruising around with the tops off... I WANT THIS INTERIOR!!!

Of course you can build it outside. All of the preliminary R&D construction was built outside on my test mule. It was only when I was ready to transfer the dash to my daily driver did the project move inside.

As far tools, why don't you wait until I post the build-up on a web site to make that decision. I can tell you that I used almost every tool in my garage including a mig welder, band saw, compressor and air tools, and drill press. Can it be done without them? Yes, probably. But it will depend greatly on your skills as a fabricator. I wouldn't recommend this project if you tool chest consists of only a Dremal, screwdrivers, and a K-mart socket set.

At the bare minumim (for my method), you'll need a saws-all, drill and bits, soldering iron, just about every hand tool you have, and body work tools (for the dash and computer cover).

Roy

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: As far tools, why don't you wait until I post the build-up on a web site to make that decision. I can tell you that I used almost every tool in my garage including a mig welder, band saw, compressor and air tools, and drill press. Can it be done without them? Yes, probably. But it will depend greatly on your skills as a fabricator. I wouldn't recommend this project if you tool chest consists of only a Dremal, screwdrivers, and a K-mart socket set. At the bare minumim (for my method), you'll need a saws-all, drill and bits, soldering iron, just about every hand tool you have, and body work tools (for the dash and computer cover). Roy

Let me add to Roy's comments...These all comments apply to HIS Method.

I set out to do this without any major cutting to the Fiero structure. There are a lot of advantages to the way Roy did his dash, but the huge advantage to mine is that you COULD install the dash with just a screwdriver, dremel and a socket set.

I used a jig saw to cut the center tunnel and the door panels, but that's about it. I never got out the sawzall, and I don't even own air tools, band saw, drill press or a welder.

So if you want a low tech easy to install Firebird dash don't give up, there is a solution out there for you. Not to take anything away from Roy, because he is a master builder, and his setup is awesome, but I didn't want to do all the work he is doing to make it perfect.

When I get a little time I will post my build up and you can compare the two methods and make your decision. Good luck

- Jonathan (JScott1)

I looked at the Grand Am dash and considered it as an alternative, however the twin "Dolly Parton may i help hold up your boobs gauge pods" (IMHO) would get in the way of driving and looking out the front window.
However I do have a suggestion. If you are going to convert the Fiero to V8 power, opt for the Trans Am dash and gauges. THe V8 gauge package will work with the V8 without conversion. Oh, dont forget to get the seats, Leather and Lumbar support and electric adjustable!! Now if only Archie would make the sucuide doors an optional feature like he has on the Stinger!!...
Sammy Williams
1988 Fiero

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Let me add to Roy's comments...These all comments apply to HIS Method. - Jonathan (JScott1)

Didn't I say that?

Roy

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: Didn't I say that? Roy

Of course you did, I just wanted to make it perfectly clear

If I needed to use a welder or air tools I would be out of luck

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I considered Firebird leather seats but they are going for about $800 on eBay...a little more than I wanted to pay...but maybe someday.

Did you check out a local junkyard to try and find good seats? I would imagine you can get good seats for a lot less than that at a junkyard.

On a different note, what would I have to do to make all the 'bird guages work in an '85 GT with the 2.8?

Another quick question for you (JScott1), I know you said the dash is about 3 inches closer to you, does the steering wheel stick out any more or no? The other clearance question I have is about the clearance between the shifter (in a 4 spd) and the HVAC controls, how much clearance is there, is it going to be a pain in the ass to adjust the climate while in 1st or 3rd gear?

What you're doing with the dash looks absolutely awesome, and I can't wait until you guys get it all together and we get to see it and get the completed "installation manual".

Which brings up another quick question, do you think we'll get to see either (or both) of your cars at the 20th Annviersary show?

Kudos to you guys on all the great work so far

*Edited because I speech goodly*
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Nick www.naskie18.com AIM: Naskie182010

[This message has been edited by naskie18 (edited 12-19-2002).]

quote Originally posted by naskie18: Did you check out a local junkyard to try and find good seats? I would imagine you can get good seats for a lot less than that at a junkyard.

I haven't checked the junkyards, there are probably some deals to be had.

quote On a different note, what would I have to do to make all the 'bird guages work in an '85 GT with the 2.8?

As far as I know there are no major differenes between 85 and 87 and 88 GT. So everything Roy and I are doing should apply to you. The gas gauge is the only Firebird gauge that doesn't work in the Fiero. Roy and I are planning to substitute another gauge.

quote Another quick question for you (JScott1), I know you said the dash is about 3 inches closer to you, does the steering wheel stick out any more or no? The other clearance question I have is about the clearance between the shifter (in a 4 spd) and the HVAC controls, how much clearance is there, is it going to be a pain in the ass to adjust the climate while in 1st or 3rd gear?

My Steering column is unchanged from stock position, however the Firebird steering wheel is a little "meatier" through the center so it seems like it might be an inch or two closer. That works better for me because I sit all the way back and normally the steering wheel is too far away.

The HVAC and radio controls are a good distance away from the shifter. Jelly2M8 built me a custom shifter that increased the distance, but there is still enough room to get your hand in there and adjust it. When I get everything bolted down I will take some 3-view pictures.

quote do you think we'll get to see either (or both) of your cars at the 20th Annviersary show?

I don't know about the 20th anniversary. But I am highly probable for Daytona, and Roy will definitely be in Daytona.

- Jonathan (JScott1)

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-19-2002).]

*Edited because it was originally a link to the image instead of the image*

[This message has been edited by naskie18 (edited 01-02-2003).]

El Bumpo to the toppo...

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SmoothFieroGT@Yahoo.com
Have you RATED me today??

Just a little update. I've been very busy tieing up a few loose details like the fuel gauge. If you've been following this thread then you should know that the Firebird fuel gauge is the only gauge in the cluster that won't work correcetly if left alone. What I did was to remove the Firebird gauge from the cluster and replace it with one from an 80's model GM car. The Fiero gauge won't work because it deflectes the wrong way.

The conversion was fairly simple compaired to everything else that I've accomplished so far. The older gauges are a little bigger and must be trimmed slightly and siliconed to the lens. The lens needs to adjusted but that adjustement was very minor. I then used some small wire to solder to the circuit board traces for: 12 volt, ground, and sending unit. Easy stuff.

I've also been working on the door panels. The driver's side door is compete except for the vinyl. It's really going to look good. I hope to have the passenger side door panel completed tomorrow. With luck, I'll have the panels completed before the new year. I'll post some pictures as soon as there is something to show.

Later,
Roy

ReBUMP.....

For all the guys doing the conversions
How much money have you spent up to now?

There are itemized lists back on page-4. My list is from memory though because I am too afraid to see how much I have really spent.

I bought 100% of my parts off the net, which is definitely NOT cheaper than searching the junkyards.

But I have bought a few extras that I haven't revealed yet. And I did an interior color change at the same time so I had additional expenses like carpet, seat skins, trim, etc.

By the way, for the purists, I couldn't bring myself to paint beechwood trim, so I bought another complete set of regular tan trim and painted it. The original beechwood trim has found a new home.

Just a little update. I've been very busy tieing up a few loose details like the fuel gauge. If you've been following this thread then you should know that the Firebird fuel gauge is the only gauge in the cluster that won't work correcetly if left alone. What I did was to remove the Firebird gauge from the cluster and replace it with one from an 80's model GM car. The Fiero gauge won't work because it deflectes the wrong way.

How about using the fuel sending unit and such from the firebird? could one then use the firebirds fuel gauge? Oh post pics of your modified gauge anyway. It still may be the better method.
S.Williams
1988 Fiero

quote Originally posted by htexans1: How about using the fuel sending unit and such from the firebird? could one then use the firebirds fuel gauge? Oh post pics of your modified gauge anyway. It still may be the better method. S.Williams 1988 Fiero

I don't think it will work unless your using the Firebird ECM. The gauge is looking for some kind of signal and unless the ECM is present, it won't get it. But still, no problem. The fix is simple.

Below is a picture comparing the Firebird gauge with the older GM gauge. Not the size difference. In this picture I'va already cut about 1/8" off the face of the older gauge in preparation for it's installation.

This is a stiched picture of the back of the cluster circuit board. One shows the gauge studs and the modified board. The other shows the completed installation. If were to do it again, it waould take about an hour from start to finish. Much easier than trying to change a sending unit.

Like I said, nothing too pretty. Just some of the meat of the project.

Roy

[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 12-23-2002).]

Roy:

Could you post a follow-up stating which fuelgauge post are soldered to what trace circut?

I read this post from fornt to back once a week.

Great stuff. I am going to do mine as the money comes in. Allready removed my dash, and am looking into EL gauges for the conversion.

That being said. which gauge did you use for the fuel? Wonder if the Firebird EL gauge is close to that gauge pattern?

John

quote Originally posted by 1986GTV8: Roy: Could you post a follow-up stating which fuelgauge post are soldered to what trace circut? I read this post from fornt to back once a week. Great stuff. I am going to do mine as the money comes in. Allready removed my dash, and am looking into EL gauges for the conversion. That being said. which gauge did you use for the fuel? Wonder if the Firebird EL gauge is close to that gauge pattern? John

The tracing are the same for the replacement gauge as it was for the Firebird gauge the orientation of the repacement gauge was different that's why I had to use jumper wires. I did,however, remove the resistor that was in series with pin marked "2" on the circuit board. That trace was from the sending unit. The trace in the "3" position was the ground and the "1" was 12 volts. If you follow the tracing up to the connector you can obtain the pin number. If your attempting this project, be sure to get a cluster wiring diagram and double check all that.

Both gauges use only three connections even though the Firebird gauge has four. On the older gauge, the pin without the resistor element is the ground. that only leaves you with two to figure out (i.e., a 50-50 chance). I looked on the back of a gauge I'd built for my 68 Camaro. From the back, the center top is ground, the left is the sending unit and the right is the 12 volt feed.

As for the older fuel gauge, the model of GM car it's removed from doesn't matter. I've had a couple of them around the shop and all removed from different cars and all were simular. What's critical is that the gauge deflects from left to right and that the Firebird needle will fit snuggly on the pin. A good ruel-of-thumb is, if the studs are threaded, it doen't need the computer to work.

Hope this helps,
Roy