quote Originally posted by mptighe: *EDIT* Why haven't you Dallas guys tried to get involved in this yet out of curiousity? Does he make sure not to screw the Dallas people over?

I typed this response a few years ago when Madcurl suggested that local club members do 'an act of kindness' and help Will retrieve his car...

I think it still applies today... and not just for this situation, but any similar situation... I even tried to list pertinant forum examples... but being that this post was a few years ago... their significance may be lost on someone who has only been here a year or two. The message is still the same though, and I still feel the same way. Emotionally it doesn't feel right... but logically, and legally... I think you will see why 'Dallas guys haven't tried to get involved.'

And this is not just some excuse(s)... this is how I grappled with the situation. Welcome to my mind.

"...(snip start)
Do you get a thrill when you read someone has trouble with Chris or WCF?
Goose flesh when PR gets behind on having mounts in stock?
Warm & Fuzzy when AusFiero had trouble getting product made or shipped to the US?

Well, Neither do we.

So what exactly is the role of a local club in vendor/customer trouble?

How about, NONE.

...(snip)...

The function of a club is not to make sure satisfaction is found amongst two contracting parties. In this age of an overly litigious society, can you imagine the legal ramifications and the liability risk that a club might face for trying to take action for either party? I can't think of any club that would do that!

But damn the legal issue, Let's just say that you honestly think that it is a clubs' or even a local citizens, responsibility to intercede on a contractual dispute that they had no association with, other than just mere bodily proximity.

(scenario): You (being anyone) walk onto a person's property uninvited.
You are TRESPASSING. Now you have exposed yourself to Criminal activity.
Repeated phone calls on a situation that does not involve you can be HARASSMENT.
Just mentioning it verbally might be construed as SLANDER. Typing about it on the internet might be considered LIBEL.

And you wonder WHY someone is silent in a thread?

"But Blake, you can't honestly believe that stating facts in a thread is Libel. Or visiting someone is Trespass." No, I don't, but it really doesn't matter what I think if someone angry enough hauls my butt or me as a President of a club to court to try and prove my stance. I can barely afford gas, much less a lawyer!

But wait, there's more! as if Legel ramifications or a Criminal record weren't incentive enough to keep your nose out of someone elses business, my state has something called the 'Castle Law.' Loosely, it means that a property owner has the right to defend his or her home and property by any means necessary. Including lethal force.

"But Blake, you can't honestly think that someone would shoot you for walking around their property?" No, I don't, but weighing an already upset person's mood (as most contracts gone bad usually have angry people) versus my life is a no brainer. It ain't gonna happen.

Now if local buddy Will, or any visitor to my fair state, asked me to come along as moral support or load a vehicle or somesuch while they try to resolve an unenviable task. Well, I'd not sleep right at night if I said "no." But taking action independent and with disregard to existing laws and dispute resolution channels is not my, not yours, not any club's responsibility. Ever.

Just give me one more second of latitude here: 2 examples of why what you say is so ridiculous.

1) Is it Andrew's (F-I-E-R-O) neighbors' or his church's responsibility to try and force him to make badges as someone in The Mall suggested? (I understand desperate times require yadda yadda, but that is absurd!)
2) Is it Ed Park's place to force MsLori to finish her window project or refund the money? You know the answer.

In all cases, it is up to the contracting parties to meet the terms and obligations. If not, it is up to the courts to find satisfaction.

Not your neighbor. Not your boss. Not a proximity located body. Not a club."

I hope that answers your question fully.

------------------
<---- did you buy Cliff a beer?

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: The same reason you haven't, the Houston guys haven't nor the people from New York, ect......This transation has nothing to do with anyone but the owner and the swapper..... Edit....What are you going to do help this guy out since you are so concerned with helping out?

And you wonder why I "called you into" the other thread by name. Condoning is almost as bad as the original unethical act. Your indifference is the exact same thing. Regardless of what you claim, you come to his defense in any thread you can, and every time you do, it makes me think even less of you.

Blake, while I completely understand your points, although I do disagree that nothing can be done. No one said to go to Loyde's place on your own accord, but turning a blind eye to his business practices isn't exactly excusable either. There are ways to help the victims without putting yourself in harm's way legally or physically. There is the BBB, the DA, and the Attorney General's offices which should be involved by now. When you commit fraud over the internet and across state lines, it is a federal offense. If someone were to help the victims coordinate and approach the correct people, it would more than resolve the situation. Loyde would be put away and his business would be sold off piece by piece to make restitution to the victims. This has happened for people ripped off through Ebay and Craigslist and many other venues. The fact that he hasn't been banned by the members here is condoning his behavior. the whole "I don't have a dog in this fight" thing is cowardice and apathetic at best.

I am not singling you out Blake, as I personally do not have any negative judgments towards you. I am however tired of the attitude on here from people saying it wasn't them that got ripped off so they can't even try to make things better. I guess it's a good thing people stopped doing that long enough to make a difference in Tyler's life. They could have easily said it wasn't them or someone they knew right? I just don't understand why it took a terminal illness to get people involved in someone else's misfortune. I've done what I can through the board here by rating Loyde with a (-). I've also tried to get people to see that he will continue to do this to others if he is given access to this board and should be denied this opportunity. I'm also willing to help anyone coordinate a plan to get his ass thrown in jail on a federal fraud charge. That's a hell of a lot more than I've seen from most of the members on here, and I also "don't have a dog in this fight".

They should pin this on top... also we need a BIG FAQ pinned up there too..

the only thing you can do is a LAW SUIT, also report him to law enforcement.... I am sure he has a meth lab or a few dozen pot plants.

[This message has been edited by jeffdean42 (edited 06-12-2010).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mptighe:


And you wonder why I "called you into" the other thread by name. Condoning is almost as bad as the original unethical act. Your indifference is the exact same thing. Regardless of what you claim, you come to his defense in any thread you can, and every time you do, it makes me think even less of you.

Blake, while I completely understand your points, although I do disagree that nothing can be done. No one said to go to Loyde's place on your own accord, but turning a blind eye to his business practices isn't exactly excusable either. There are ways to help the victims without putting yourself in harm's way legally or physically. There is the BBB, the DA, and the Attorney General's offices which should be involved by now. When you commit fraud over the internet and across state lines, it is a federal offense. If someone were to help the victims coordinate and approach the correct people, it would more than resolve the situation. Loyde would be put away and


I only read about a 1/4 of what you wrote cause it is just blah blah blah...What you think of me does not bother me at all as I am not the type of person who lives to please others, espically those on th internet.

My question to you is..What are you doing as a fellow Texan to help this cause. I mean if it is up to Dallas area folks to help then I would think it is every Texans job..So please post on what you did to help.....

I would think with the problems you are having getting your swap complete that you would be more focused on your own problems.....2 months is now 7 months...7 months turns into a year...and so on.....I mean your swap is being done by a shop with many skilled people so what is taking so long?

OMG, I just read all 12 pages of this thread... yes, I have avoided it for this long...

NoGoFast Fieros... your mom shoud straight up biatch slap you for what you have done. Did she not teach you morals/standards?! You have absolutely NO PLACE HERE in this forum, or this world of Fieros. You are sickening, to the pit of my stomach.

Yeah, I have had no dealings with you, but I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO POST HERE.

I also am highly concerned with your self righteous desire to talk crap about Archie... what have you ever done for the Fiero community where it took from your own pocket? I know of several account where Archie has gone WAY out of his way (at no financial gain mind you) to help out someone in need. Where have you been? Oh, wait... you have been taking unsuspecting people's money and making false promises. I think I threw up in my mouth just thinking of you.

How much of these people's hard earned money (yes, they actually WORKED for it), have you spent on your step child's diapers? Tampons for your new wife? Nice NY Cut Steaks for your outdoor BBQ's to impress your neighbors?

My advice:

1. Stop blaming everyone for your failures in life... you obviously suck at this... so it is what you need to work on most.

2. Bring everyone up to date with the projects you have taken on (err, money you have taken for these projects)... truthfully and publicly... give them realistic deadlines and stick by them like it was your last chance... 'cause it is.

3. Stop being the victim. Blaming everyone for your problems (even worse, lambasting them in this forum, make you look like a compete idiot - which you have done an excellent job on your own). You dug this hole very deep... now dig yourself out. (sorry, no Batman quote... you aready used it, and destroyed it's meaning, so I will not stoop down that low) - sorry for those that did not get that bit... it was several pages back where Lloyde horribly misquoted a phrase from a Batman movie.

4. Finish what you got paid for... you advertised it, you got paid, now render the SERVICE/PROCUCT!

5. Answer your fricken emails/phone calls! What I don't understand is that you expect EVERYONE to relate and understand your problems you have had, but you are so unwilling to accept or feel for their frustrations with you. You are acting like a 4 year old autistic child! (trust me, I have one!)

Also, your thought that everyone is out to get your "Secret Squirrel" designs is absolutely sad... this is a sign of paranoia. And to publicly use this as an excuse to not deliver is a significant flag for one of two things.

1. You are truly a paranoid person (not a good person to do business with)
2. You are passing this off to shed light on why you have not/will not produce a product a person has paid for (not a good person to do business with)

Lastly... OMG, to all those that have been taken advantage of... I will not wish you hope... sorry, that has been done before, and requires the A$$ to follow through, but I do wish my best wishes... SINCERELY. I have a few Fieros, and will donate ANY parts I can to help... to include an unmolested harness for an 87 V6 Manual.

My rant is over... I think I will go puke now... thanks Lloyde!

Low class - what makes you think it is okay to refer to someone's wife as a whore? No matter what beef you mighthave with Loyde, his wife has not come into this thread and called anyone names. How about leave family out of it and stick to the facts.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Meth.. Chinese whores... whats the difference?