I have been gathereing the items that I needed to get a Caddie 4.9 swapped into an 88 coupe. I went to Port St Lucie, Fl to get this coupe that was listed in the Mall here, and brought it back to Texas the last of June.
Costs so far:
87-88 4 cyl throttle cable $30.00
1991 Deville $400.00
Bead Blast Valve covers $20.00
car $450.00
Fuel $385.00
Eats $200.00
Water pump inlet $ 55.00
Bracket $ 25.00
Muffler $100.00
Cat Convert $ 65.00
VATS bypass $ 31.00
Fuel Pump $ 80.00
Fuel Hoses $ 25.00
CV shaft $ 55.00
Belt Tensioner $ 18.00
Belt idler $ 12.00
Welding $ 50.00
TBI spacer $20.00
Shift cable adjustable $30.00
Shift cable plain $25.00
Shifter & asst parts $40.00
PCV gromet $23.00
Tach Mod Parts $ 8.00
Dist wir connectr's $12.00
Pop rivetts $ 6.00
Brake peddle cvr $4.00
Dist cap $12.00
Batt support $30.00
CV boot $16.00
McMaster Carr $13.00
2 Fiero transmission mounts $20.00
2 Buick transmission mount brackets $15.00
2 Summitt mtr mts $30.00
1 Vibe radio $26.00
Injector serviceing kit $24.00
Ultrasonic cleaner machine $31.00
Timeing cover gasket set $20.00
Coolant filler neck $38.00
Water inlet welding $15.00
New NAPA lifetime Water Pump $58.00
Timing cover Crankshaft seal $8.00
Mandrel bent pipe $112.00
Exhaust hangers $12.00
Battery tray and two new front cradle bolts, The Fiero Store, $50.00 shipped
Seat skin $40.00
Mr Mikes $425.00
Fiero Addiction Shifter bracket $58.00
Wiper Blades $11.00
New Lateral link for heat to frame brace $62.00
Tan Wheelskin $37.00
Machine shop charge for making me a 14mm bushing $25.00
Insulation from J C WHitney $38.00 shipped
AC hose adapters etc $83.00 Shipped
45* angle adapters shipped $20.00
Firewall insulation pattern $26.00 shipped
AC clutch wiring connector NAPA EC12 $18.51

I have forgotten something I am sure. I will add these items in as I remember them

I had purchased a whole 91 Deville around the first of April that had a 93 4.9. It was installed but was never finished. There was a problem with the different 91's round 7 wire transmission plug and the 93's 4T60E connector. I had removed the engine in mid April and cleaned it up for the install. I removed the entire engine wiring harness for my swap. $400.00 for the whole car.



I had decided to go with the 93 4T60E. The 88 coupe was a stick shift car. I located and switched over everything needed for an automatic. Fierocarparts in Ft Worth, Texas. and I traded some of the things out with each other. I think he got the short end of the stick. $40.00 gas and eats for one day. I kept my 88's manual CV axels.
I removed the valve covers,and located an extra one with the oil filer hole. The valve covers were nasty, as the black finish was peeling bad. I had them bead blasted and painted the with some expoy silver paint and a coat of clear on top. Free, swapped some parts the shop needed for the work.

I had located the correct transmission mount brackets at a wrecking yard in Lufkin,Texas. About $15.00. FieroAddiction had shut down and was not selling any engine mounts. I was able to locate a CAD image of the front engine mounting bracket, and had one made at a local welding shop, about $25.00
Mount photo to go here soon.
I am using Micky_Moose's idler method to rout the belt https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050818-2-052483.html
Spent a few hours fitting it on the 88 cradle and rolled it under my 88.


Raised her up in the engine bay

Today I removed my drivers seat andlaid the 91's fuel injection harness on top of the 4.9. I fed the ECM connectors into the cars cabin threw the square hole.


After an hour of untangeling the wires I plugged in one connector, the distrubitor one. There is about 40 inches of excess wire I'll have to remove so I can lay it out and get it routed where I want it to lay.

I am using Mickey_Moose's wiring thread to build my harness. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/098096.html
After I finish the fuel injection part of the harness I will add the C203/C500. This is where the two will join togeather. I wanted to have the biggest part of the harness on the bottom so the rest will not get tangeled up while trying to marry the two.

I have purchased a muffler from a place in Canada that custom builds , and a 89's 6000 driver side CV shaft. I have a new AC delco 88 V6 fuel pump to drop into the tank.
More later, tired of typing all of this up..
Joe Crawford

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-20-2010).]

wow i have the same car so let me tell you it is soo much fun to drive. pff fourm is the place for info it told me every thing I needed to know this is the best runing car i have had

------------------



88 fiero 4.9
86 2.8 sponser of lasvegas fiero club

It seems you planned to do a lot of work with the engine inside the car.

I am slowly preparing a 4.9 for a swap, collecting parts here and there. I planned to build the harness with the engine outside.

I ordered mounts from fieroaddiction and also a memcal reprogrammation but I never received them. He got ther money I got nothing.

My swap is for a Formula, so for sure I will follow yours.

------------------
"I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

4.9 ongoing project

Im going to make the same swooop. I got the engine out of the 85 fiero. Cleaning and Cleaning. Painting.
I got a 93 caddy all busted up Front . Big problem. I should have never started driving the caddy. Now Im wanting to put all the nice toys in the
feiro. Caddy fun to drive also. I guess I need more telling me how fun the Feiro will be with the 4.9 is

My 88 coupe is in process as well, torn into a million pieces in the garage. When complete, 7730, Allante intake, centerforce clutch, I have most of the parts, its the little things that keep hangin me up (don't forget the flywheel bolts....) Should be a heck of a ride when she's finally rollin....

Well, as the owner of an 88 coupe with the 4.9 for 3 years now, I can tell you that you're gonna love the swap. It will be worth every ounce of effort and then some. Keep us posted on the progress.....

Here's mine.

[This message has been edited by Frizlefrak (edited 08-26-2009).]

quote Originally posted by falcon_ca: It seems you planned to do a lot of work with the engine inside the car. I am slowly preparing a 4.9 for a swap, collecting parts here and there. I planned to build the harness with the engine outside. I ordered mounts from fieroaddiction and also a memcal reprogrammation but I never received them. He got ther money I got nothing. My swap is for a Formula, so for sure I will follow yours.

I am just doing the wiring with the engine in the engine bay. I want it to fit right, and look nice and in orderly fashion. I am gonna remove the engine to have my exhaust made and fitted up. I will add the idler pully , AC hose and that type of stuff before I place it back in the car. I should have done these before I raised the engone up in the body, but I wanted to get it up in the bay so I could finish up the wiring. It went up and in very easy, I had more trouble raising up my Duke a few years back, stuff hangin up on the rear. My transmission dipstick got hung up on this one. I had to push it closer to the engine about 1/2". The rest was a piece of cake.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 08-28-2009).]

Looking good Joe! Can't wait to see it in person. I'll let you work out all the details and then I'll pick your brain! I sold my 88 GT this last weekend so now I am working on getting the Fino completed. I have to fix a couple of things on the GT for the new owner BUT mainly focusing on the Fino.
Keep us posted!

------------------
Why fight to be accepted by people you don't actually want to be like?

quote Originally posted by falcon_ca: I am slowly preparing a 4.9 for a swap, collecting parts here and there. I planned to build the harness with the engine outside.

...I find it way easier to built the harness in the car - easier to get the correct lengths and run the wiring where you want and it fit. But, whatever works for you.

quote Originally posted by josef644: I have been gathereing the items that I needed to get a Caddie 4.9 swapped into an 88 coupe. I went to Port St Lucie, Fl to get this coupe that was listed in the Mall here, and brought it back to Texas the last of June. $450.00 for the car. $385.00 for fuel back and forth, $200.00 for eats. $317.00 for a new fuelpump that had quit in Pensacole, Fl at Pep Boys.

Hope it all goes well, looks like you have it all under control.

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Hope it all goes well, looks like you have it all under control.

Just following you and Fieroseverywhere's advise. I've had no real problems so far. I have misplaced my Bakers Electronics VATS bypass, and my 88 V6 oil pressure switch. I'll have to order a new ones, or just plan on letting Stickpony remove the bypass. I'm glad the bypass was only $25.00.

Micky_Moose, in one of your pictures I can see a chrome airbreather. What size was it? Did the breathing of hot air effect the running of the engine? I am thinking about locating a S10 4.3 V6 air breather that I can point to the air intake and attach a flue to it. If it will fit flat in TB area.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 08-27-2009).]

This morning I ohmed out tagged all eight injector pulse wires from the ECM connector, and routed them the way I want them to lay. I have to marry the 93 and 91 harnesses at this point. My engine injector harness is off of the 93 engine and is a bit different than the 91 ecm harness. You just need to know this part is not just plug and play, because the switch out of the two different years. I also ohmed out and tagged the 8 pulse wires off of the engine part of the harness. Do not rely on wire color alone. Some of these colors change when they get oil, heat, sunlight etc on them. I am going to retain the 93's wire layout across the engine. Tomorrow I will cut and solder the 16 wires and start on some of the sensors.
I have plugged all of the sensor connectors in along with the IAC. I have left about 24"s of wire on each connector. I also tagged all of the sensor wires on the ECM end before I cut them off for easy identification. I also untangeled all of the wires as best I could where they enter the ECM plugs. This cut down on half of the bulk of the birds nest there before I did it.

I have to work overnight tonight and Saterday night,will not get much done this weekend.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 08-28-2009).]

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josef644,

Did you figure out how you will run the heater hose from the top of the V8 to the back of the engine?

And what have you done with the heater output of the V8 water pump?

[This message has been edited by falcon_ca (edited 08-28-2009).]

quote Originally posted by falcon_ca: josef644, Did you figure out how you will run the heater hose from the top of the V8 to the back of the engine? And what have you done with the heater output of the V8 water pump?

I am gonna cap off the small inlet at the rear of the water pump inlet as the 88 has the return line merge back in near the rear of the coolant return pipe. The smaller outlet on the 4.9 thermostat housing will be my heater supply line. My coupe was a 4 cyl car so it has the water line at the rear side of the engine bay. I'll just rig me up an extension of some type and join them togeather. The same way Mickey_Moose did. (borrowed his picture):

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 08-28-2009).]

quote Originally posted by josef644: I am gonna cap off the small inlet at the rear of the water pump inlet as the 88 has the return line merge back in near the rear of the coolant return pipe. ...

Do yourself a favor and fill that fitting with JB Weld or epoxy before you put the rubber cap on. (I removed the inlet housing from the back of the water pump plate to do this.)
After a few years those rubber caps will deteriorate and split. Usually at a most inopportune time.
I never had it happen to me, but I was behind someone on a run through the mountains, who had it happen.
We all saw the huge cloud of steam and thought it was smoke. Hilarity ensued. Not.

I had that happen on a 302 Ford once. I use a short piece of heater hose, and fit a metal plug in the end. Put a clamp on it, then just slide it on the nipple, and tighten a second clamp. On these 4.9 swaps it will never be seen anyway. Those rubber caps are worthless.
Joe Crawford

quote Originally posted by falcon_ca: josef644, Did you figure out how you will run the heater hose from the top of the V8 to the back of the engine? And what have you done with the heater output of the V8 water pump?

You can cut off the heater hose neck and turn it were you want to relocate the hose. In this case it is towards the tranny and away from the valve cover.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-29-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: [QUOTE]Originally posted by falcon_ca: josef644, Did you figure out how you will run the heater hose from the top of the V8 to the back of the engine? And what have you done with the heater output of the V8 water pump?

You can cut off the heater hose neck and turn it were you want to relocate the hose. In this case it is towards the tranny and away from the valve cover.


[/QUOTE]

On your build how did you run your VSS sensor wire? Did you lay your wires along the intake, down the passenger side of the engine, then to the VSS plug, or distrubitor end underneath the exhaust manifold to the VSS plug. I don't want to fry these two wires.
Joe Crawford

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 08-31-2009).]

No work done today, had equipment problems at work this am. Man yanna

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 09-01-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

If I sent you a fuel rail would you modify it like this for me? I really hate having the fuel lines running accross the rocker covers. I'll pay you well for you time.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 09-01-2009).]

FEW that is Rickady88GT's picture. I wouldn't have a clue on how to move those.

Today I made some progress:

8 ECM injector wires joined up
Dist wires
IAC wires
Coolant temperature sensor wires
About half of the transmission shift & converter clutch wires



I have to work 8 hours tomorrow am . I plan on finishing up the transmission wires and do the MAT and TPS.
Removed all of this today from the Caddie harness:

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 09-01-2009).]

My apoligies. I quoted him but wasn't specific as to who I was speaking to. Sorry about that.

Your progress looks great so far. Congrats on getting down to the nitty gritty. Bet your really starting to itch for that first test drive. I know I was at the point your at. Later Joe

EDIT: Where you mounting the MAP sensor? I found that I couldn't use the bracket that it comes attached to... not that I wanted to.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 09-01-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: My apoligies. I quoted him but wasn't specific as to who I was speaking to. Sorry about that. Your progress looks great so far. Congrats on getting down to the nitty gritty. Bet your really starting to itch for that first test drive. I know I was at the point your at. Later Joe EDIT: Where you mounting the MAP sensor? I found that I couldn't use the bracket that it comes attached to... not that I wanted to.

Funny you should ask that. I just removed the air breather from my 89 GMC S-15 truck. It has the 2.8 V6. The diamater of the throttle body opening is the same as the 4.9 throttle body. I purchased a new air cleaner/throttle body gasket for this comparison. It appears that if I had a 1" extension the 2.8 air breather would be a perfect replacement for the Caddie stuff. I could point the snout to where I want it, and connect the 2.5/V6 air duct to the end. Instant Fiero type cold air intake. There is plenty of room to mount the MAP on the side of the air breather. Same as GM did on many of their cars. I need to mount my altenator on my engine to make sure it will not hit the altenator before I locate me a second 2.8 GMC/S-10 style breather. It looked real good there. If it will clear the altenator good I will snap a picture tomorrow before I put it back on my GMC.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 09-05-2009).]

Nothing done on my coupe today. I had a flat on my tractor. These are always fun to handle. That is, unless it falls on your foot the same time it falls on your wallet. $45.00 last time I had a flat on a rear tire to patch a tube. Well the only charge $1.00 for the patch, $44.00 to take the tube out and put it back in.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 09-02-2009).]

Tractor flat was $58.00 today. I had just enough in my pocket to pick up these from the welding shop. $20.00 more bucks:


I had the 90* angle straightened out, I had the shift arm flattened and shortened to 1 5/8" I'll try to get this on the transmission tomorrow and try it out.
No other progress today. Tractor flat has put mre two days behind on work.

Wow Joe you have been busy

Tim

Nothing new done today, double shift at my job.

I will be able to get some work done on the coupe tomorrow as I will finally get some time off.

Happy Labor Day to all of you folks. Enjoy your weekend off.
Joe Crawford
Texas

FYI, I have a Formula with a 4.9/4T60E. If there is any info I can share with you to help you out, drop me a PM.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: FYI, I have a Formula with a 4.9/4T60E. If there is any info I can share with you to help you out, drop me a PM.

Thanks for the offer. I will take you up on your offer as any problems arise. As of yet I am having fun. I am thinking that I might not get much done today, just enjoy the Holiday off.

Found this new on E Bay today. I purchased it for my swap. It will allow me to raise the air breather up so there is more clearence underneath:

$20.00 including shipping. The same guy had a used one for $10.00 more. Go figure that out, new $9.99. used $19.00

Update , got an e-mail this am, it should be here in three days. I'll post the measurements when it arrives

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 09-08-2009).]

Jncomutt has a thread where he installed a 3800 with a 4T65 HD transmission. after reading it I saw where he had flattened the shift cable mounting bracket and used exihisting holes to mount it on the transmission.
His picture borrowed from his thread:


So I says to my self " Self, I wonder if this will work on my 4T60 also. It does. Here is Jncomutt's thread for some nice reading This picture is from about 3/4 way down on the first page:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/102326.html

Here is a picture of the transmission shift cable mounting bracket. I had the 90* angle heated and straightened. Notice also the two brackets we used are not exactly the same I am not sure which one is the most common on 125's. I purchased mine from a member in the mall and can not be sure what it came off of. But they both still worked the same:


After a test fit I had to take a round file and remove about 1/16" of metal from both the two mounting holes. If you lay yours on your transmission you will see where the hole needs to be extended out. I also had to notch the bracket where it was against the shift position switch on the transmission. About 5 0 clock on the top right hole you can just make out the notch.


Here ya go with it mounted on my transmission with only 10 min's of work. No welding needed on this bracket:


There isn't much information about moding the transmission shift arm out there. Fieroaddiction just tells us to flatten it out and make it 1 5/8" center to center, (41mm) Spacecoastfiero's in their 4T60 conversion information tell us to make it 1.6875"or about 1 11/16",(42.5mm). Center to center. About 3/4 way down the page.
http://spacecoastfieros.com/tech/440-4T60/
Jncomutt's 3800 thread didnt give any measurement.
When I had mine welded at the shop they made mine 1 3/4" , about 44.25mm. I cut the flat sides on a bolt that was the proper size and added a nut on top. This time they can find the center and make it about 42mm. This measurement will split the difference. I'm sure this isn't critical.

I do not have the adjustable shift cable that were put on some of our cars. Jncomutt's picture shows the adjustable shift cable. You an see the end of my cable where it fits into the bracket is different. Might need to try to locate an adjustable one.
Found one in the mall, Its on the way $30.00 including shipping. Thanks Blacktree


Nuff for today
Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 09-10-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: I assume you mean C203. Under the console next to the shifter? While it might be possible to run both banks off on one wire if you up the fuse, I think its better to add the second wire. The C203 should have both wires running to it from the fuse panel. The 2.5 cars only have one wire coming out though. Just add the one pin and your golden. Double check that there are 2 fuses in place. I think the ALDL has the same pins so you probably have extras somewhere. Not that a quick trip to the yard cant fix it either way.

Thanks FEW.
Joe

I got about 9 wires finished up today. The humidity is horrid out ther right now. Temperature is only 80, but is is sweat city.

Joe good to see that you are making progress. I have finished my C500 and C203 and now I am just shortening all the remaining wires to the ECU. The last thing I have to do before I can connect a battery and try to start mine is fix my water leak I have on the waterpump inlet. Hopefully I'll have that finished by Tuesday. Good luck.

Didn't get much done this morning, It is still raining here. Flat on the wifes car, and the window came out of the track on my S15 GMC. Those little black plastic guides last about 18 months, then OUT she comes again. Had to fix both before I could play with my Pontiac. I am planning an a second attempt this afternoon around 2pm.

Did a few more wires this afternoon. Plan on a few more this evening.

I wired the MAT, MAP, TPS, EGR and OXY sensors this evening. I need to run all of th Pink/Blk wires tomorrow. Once I finish all of the pink/blk I will start with the C203/C500 merging with in the Cadillac Fuel Injection harness.

My adjustable shift cable was in todays mail. One more item in the "To Install Later " box. I have a box I put things in for later. I don't want some thing in the way right now so it will be easier to run some of the required wires up to the brake peddle ect. Converter clutch circut has to be added. Maybe a few others.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 09-13-2009).]

Wired in the VSS wires and the OXY sen wires today. Played in the cabin a bit, trying to organise the wires some. Temperature outside was only 85 today, but the humidity was 100%.
Here is the way it looks right now in the engine bay.



I plan on clipping the wires from the ECM leading to the ALDL tomorrow. After a chat with Dodgerunner yesterday, I am going to wire ADL position "M" into socket "E" in my ALDL. This way my 'Dodgerunner' cable might just work with the TunnerPro software. Worth a try. If it will work I am gonna also connect it in to the "M" socket. If I ever use someone elses cable it will still display data. I am going to get the wires togeather that merge with the C203 in the cabin, ignition, power stearing lead etc, and have them ready to solder in. I also want to extend the large ground wire with the 4 ECM ground leadsinto the engine bay, and ground it to the engine block tomorrow.

Do you plan to install an engine oil radiator ?

On one of your pictures, it looks like you cancel the oil radiator hose fitting.