quote Originally posted by Rallaster: ...and like you, I don't think I could live with myself if I made it not a manual. LOL

Exactly, if I didn't want to shift I'd drive my wife's Civic. No thanks! This ain't gonna be no granny car!



Now...

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-21-2010).]

Ok, I'm loving the possibilities of the gauges.. LOL As a former OTR truck driver, I got used to gauges, LOTS of gauges and have been contemplating gauges, just cuz in mine as is.. My only question is, how will you fit them with out obstructing your view of the road and it still look good??

I have my ways. (It really won't be hard with only 8)

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-21-2010).]

Oh man, I was just looking for something and ran across a date. 6/6/09. This means that my Fiero has been at Dave's shop for over a year now! Wow, time goes by insanely fast. When I was in third grade or whatever, one month took this amount of time to pass.
Soon I will have owned this Fiero for 3 years, and I still haven't driven it.
The good thing is that in a short time from now, mine will be the one and only Fiero he is going to work on until I drive it out of his shop.

I'll never give in, but man, it'd be nice to have been driving even a 3800SC Fiero for nearly the last year (did I just say that?). You can't beat those swaps at the Haus for bang for your buck and a quick turnaround.
Ah well, this car will be built the way I really want it to be.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 07-11-2010).]

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: Oh man, I was just looking for something and ran across a date. 6/6/09. This means that my Fiero has been at Dave's shop for over a year now! Wow, time goes by insanely fast. When I was in third grade or whatever, one month took this amount of time to pass. Soon I will have owned this Fiero for 3 years, and I still haven't driven it. The good thing is that in a short time from now, mine will be the one and only Fiero he is going to work on until I drive it out of his shop. I'll never give in, but man, it'd be nice to have been driving even a 3800SC Fiero for nearly the last year (did I just say that?). You can't beat those swaps at the Haus for bang for your buck and a quick turnaround. Ah well, this car will be built the way I really want it to be.

Yeah, it has been a year....and that means my orange and black car hasn't been driven in that long also
Anyway, I had to put the swaps on the secondary list, but I do find about 15-20 hours a week on average to work on them. I plan to make progress this week on project Midtrbo, so I'll post up some new pics on here.
The odd part is when I sneak down to the shop to work, I get so much done....during the work week, I have to answer the phone, and get about 5 customers walking in every day to have me listen to some noise in their BMW's suspension or check engine light. Then my ten hour day turns into about three hours of work.
I think Steven will be really impressed with our exhaust idea. I do need to send him the design idea for approval first, but once the trunk it cut, I'll have dimensions to work with.
Dave

BMW's pay the bills, you do what you gotta do.
I'm looking forward to more PC'd parts, and that exhaust layout!

...also, Dave let me know today that the "tested" starter that I had the junkyard send to him was actually no good. I'm really sick of sending him bad parts!
He's going to pick up a re-man'd starter for it. It's a Gen III 60V6 starter (3100/3400), they're lighter and more efficient than the earlier ones.

The trunk is being chopped in half today (IIRC), lots of the smaller engine/swap parts have been installed, and the turbo bracket has been fabbed. My upper intake will be powdercoated in crinkle (or wrinkle) black, and either Dave or I will sand the raised "3100 SFI" down to the aluminum to give it a nice contrast.
After that it sounds like it's on to the final cold-side exhaust designing.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 07-15-2010).]

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: The trunk is being chopped in half today (IIRC), lots of the smaller engine/swap parts have been installed, and the turbo bracket has been fabbed. My upper intake will be powdercoated in crinkle (or wrinkle) black, and either Dave or I will sand the raised "3100 SFI" down to the aluminum to give it a nice contrast.

Are you going to paint or powdercoat the plenum?

I'm going to powdercoat it.....both the silver letters and the black plenum will both be powdercoated separately.
Dave

Oh... sweet.

More Lunesta post

My quick and dirty PS of future. The future is now, now is soon. Not red.







I have these waiting patiently protected for the car after paint

Don't mind the Lunesta... It keeps me on top of things (sort-of) during the day so I can pay for this waste of money (and the mortgage, and bills, and food, etc. etc.).

I've got plans, and nothing will stop them if I have anything to say about it.
I'm REALLY wanting, going through withdrawals again. My new Camaro-boat is an AWESOME car, don't get me wrong, but I need a turbo go-kart once in a while too!

Someone ask me questions, I want to talk about it.

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: Someone ask me questions, I want to talk about it.

Is it done yet?

Don't make me turn this thread around!

I'm #4 in line for this front fascia. Here's Amida's latest progress on the prototype...



I'm not sure exactly how yet, but I'll mod* that a bit, too, for better airflow.
(*The word 'tweak' is officially played out. )

Hopefully Dave will have some pics soon, but he's really busy so I don't mind if it takes a bit. He's done a lot of work to the car recently, most of which isn't necessarily worth posting pics of (like the parking brake system, for example, it's now complete and functional). The really pretty bit will be the powdercoated intake, and I also want plenty of pics of the turbo bracket and the trunk-chop. The post-turbo exhaust will start soon, the main design and layout is finalized and agreed upon by all.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 07-29-2010).]

Our plenum came out very nice. To summarize this, Steven wanted the intake reversed so that the throttle body would be on the passenger side and lettering would face the correct direction. We had to cut the throttle body flange off, reshape the intake and TIG weld it back on to look like it came from the factory.
The powdercoating was done "in Haus" in a two stage setup. First, we prepped the plenum. Then we sprayed the lettering in "reflective chrome". Joey then taped off the letters (I would have lost my patience at this point), and we powdercoated the rest in a "wrinkle black".

Here are some pics:











we also have pics of the trunk that we cut.....





Dave

WOW man that looks VERY nice.. Nice tig job and blending of that manifold. Looks like it was born that way. SO a 3100 turbo? What are the specs on that setup? What kinda turbo is that and what do you think the power output will be once it is tuned up? VERY nice looking install and professional work there.... peace

Pete

Hell yes! That looks GREAT!
The AFPR goes very nicely with it, too.
I'm going to have a set of valve covers painted Candy Plasma Blue when I get the car painted, and that will complete the look.
I just have to say it again. That looks AWESOME! I love it!

I "officially" designate SFI as "Single Fire Injection". (It actually means Sequential Fuel Injection, but the '730 ECU I'm using is a "batch fire" system, meaning that it fires all 6 injectors at once, instead of sequentially like the engine the plenum came from).

Pete, it's a '90 Turbo Grand Prix 3.1 bottom end with a 3100 top end (well, '01 3400 heads/lower intake and '02 3100 plenum, they're all the exact same except the plenum numbers).
All of the information is in this thread, but to sum it up at this point...
The turbo is a Borg/Warner S258 with a Garrett .82 a/r T3 turbine housing machined to fit.
Once it's fully tuned (it'll take a lot of time to get right!), I expect to make around 325-350whp on 12-15psi, it's hard to narrow it down further until I get a decent tune on it. I'll be building the water/air intercooler setup and doing all of the tuning.
Since I had to sell off all of my other toys, I'll be going to "Stage II" with it, and that's a built "3200" destroker bottom end based off of a 3500, which will nearly be a *direct* swap into the car from where it is now. The top end will be the same, but probably ported. With that bottom end and more supporting mods I'll run more boost, and even more boost than that on race gas. I won't disclose my power estimates for that, but it'll be very scary to say the least.

Thanks for the compliments. Dave and Joey and crew do very nice work. I'm very happy with it so far!


------------------

'10 Camaro LT/RS, 312hp V6 6-speed
'88 Fiero GT - coming soon! - Project MIDTRBO

The rest of my cars are for sale
There's no replacement for turbo placement

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 07-30-2010).]

bmwguru is kicking ass and taking names on your build!

Dude, you and fieroguy123 have turned me into a turbo guy. I'm going to be buying the (stock)2.0Turbo that fieroguy123 is pulling out of fierogal123's Formula and that's probably going to be going into my '86 base coupe. I lost out on the 3.1turbo that was for sale... he just wanted way more money than I could justify.

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: Dude, you and fieroguy123 have turned me into a turbo guy.

The farce is strong with this one.
Prepare ship...for LUDICROUS SPEED!

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 08-01-2010).]

Hahahaha! Priceless!!!

I gotta say that I am quickly seeing the beauty of turbocharging lately, even tho I have this 3800SCII here to play with soon I am seriously thinking about making this a turbo car instead. The power output and efficiency advantages are just too big to deny. Then after seeing the performance of Justins car as well as others on here with well built turbo systems I can't see any other way to go...... Never seen one like this tho with the 3.1 and am anxious to see what kind of performance you get out of it. Should be very impressive and Obviously you have top notch people working on it. One look at that Tig welded manifold and the tidiness of the assembly in that engine bay speaks volumes to the skills of the builders.... Congratulations on going with an interesting and unique setup there, well done....!!

Peace

Pete

When you re-angled the intake inlet, was it simply for aesthetics, or to keep if from being too close to the strut tower? Were there any other changes required for it to be bolted on backwards?

Thanks!

Hklvette, the intake needed re-angled for strut-tower clearance. The throttlebody would have jammed straight into it otherwise.
It bolts directly onto the lower intake both ways. The only other things that need to be changed are changes you have to make for a Fiero swap anyway, such as hose and throttle linkage connections, fuel rail mounting, and some minor accessory-drive modifications.

Pete, thanks.
As some mentioned in that other thread, in general turbochargers are more efficient than superchargers, but not always. Yes, superchargers have a large parasitic loss via the crank driven belt, but turbochargers also have a loss in the form of added backpressure in the exhaust before the turbo. If you compare some older designs of turbochargers with some newer designs of some superchargers, you'll see that the difference in efficiency isn't as great as one might think. In general turbochargers make a broader powerband with higher torque than a comparable supercharger, as evidenced by several direct-comparisons that I've seen (I'd have to search to find the articles, it's been a long time). That's very 'rule-of-thumb', though. Many variables come into play.

That being said, yes, almost any of the turbo's people mount up on the L67's (3800SC) are more efficient than that stock supercharger, and even a lot of aftermarket twin-screw or roots superchargers. That's why you see massive power coming out of the turbo setups and not the supercharged setups. There are supercharger upgrades that'll knock your 3800 socks off too, but from what I understand they usually they won't fit in a Fiero without hacking up the decklid (especially with an intake-mounted intercooler that's required to make serious power), and they have instant torque that's great for shredding our weak transverse transmissions (yes, even the 4T65).

With a setup like mine, a turbo is a no-brainer because there aren't any bolt-on supercharger setups available. I'm seriously biased toward turbos anyway, so I'd never bother with a supercharger even if it was easier.

Here is a few quick pics of the exhaust. It is all stainless steel and TIG welded together. It is fabricated from mandrel bends. We fabricated it into two pieces to make removal easier. The only part not shown is the wastegate dump. As per Steven's request, we built essentially two exhaust systems and incorporated them into one unit. There is an electronic flapper to regulate the flow through the muffler. This acts as a turbo dump, but Steven did not want any exhaust to not come out of the tail pipes, so we had to create a circuit for the muffler.

Dave

------------------

www.hausofguru.com

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: *snip*

Wait.. I don't quite understand what I'm looking at. I know it's an exhaust, and I can see that the muffler is on it's own separate circuit and I see the electronic flapper, but I'm not quite understanding the why of it all..

God, being ignorant sucks..

Beautiful! I'm getting excited^2. It's all becoming very 'real' now.

Rallaster, when the electric cutout (it's actually just a 'valve' now) is closed, the exhaust is forced to flow through the 2.5" muffler. When it's open, it goes straight through the 3" pipe. I want the ability to quiet the exhaust down for neighborhood cruising, etc, but at the track/strip or whenever I feel like it, I want it to blow straight through for the least restriction possible (basically, you don't want any restriction after the turbo). The valve is infinitely adjustable so I can set it anywhere in between.

I wanted all of the exhaust to exit the tailpipes, none before, as a typically installed cutout does. The wastegate dump will also be routed back into the downpipe at a 45* angle.

Dave, out of curiosity, why did you paint it? It doesn't bother me and it looks good, but it doesn't need paint because it's SS.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 08-13-2010).]

That exhaust looks great! Very creative and I'm sure it will be effective for both noise and performance! What cutout are you using?

------------------
'88 GT- 3800 Turbo 11.367@121.03mph
gmtuners.com -Build info

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: Beautiful! I'm getting excited^2. It's all becoming very 'real' now. Rallaster, when the electric cutout (it's actually just a 'valve' now) is closed, the exhaust is forced to flow through the 2.5" muffler. When it's open, it goes straight through the 3" pipe. I want the ability to quiet the exhaust down for neighborhood cruising, etc, but at the track/strip or whenever I feel like it, I want it to blow straight through for the least restriction possible (basically, you don't want any restriction after the turbo). The valve is infinitely adjustable so I can set it anywhere in between. I wanted all of the exhaust to exit the tailpipes, none before, as a typically installed cutout does. The wastegate dump will also be routed back into the downpipe at a 45* angle. Dave, out of curiosity, why did you paint it? It doesn't bother me and it looks good, but it doesn't need paint because it's SS.

Ah-ha! I like it. Thanks for the explanation! Looking good, man.

Making me wish I had the $$ to do the 2.0 Turbo swap from Fieroguy123, now. Getting really itchy for something with a little more oomph than my little dukey has.

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: That exhaust looks great! Very creative and I'm sure it will be effective for both noise and performance! What cutout are you using?

Thanks. I can't wait to hear how this thing is going to sound!
It's a Race Ready cutout.
www.racereadyperformance.com/Home_Page.html
I pored though various forums trying to find out which was the most reliable, and this won out over QTP because of less reports of failure, and it has a lifetime warranty.

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: Ah-ha! I like it. Thanks for the explanation! Looking good, man. Making me wish I had the $$ to do the 2.0 Turbo swap from Fieroguy123, now. Getting really itchy for something with a little more oomph than my little dukey has.

No problem, and thanks! It's so much fun seeing my visions pop into reality. The Haus of Guru is like my own real life Etch-a-Sketch. They're doing great!

Yeah, the 2.0 turbo should be a BLAST compared to the dukey (LOL). Patience, young padawan. Good things will come in time (that's what I keep trying to tell myself anyway. )

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 08-13-2010).]

Steven,
I painted the exhaust to give it that final "touch". The muffler was polished stainless and the exhaust was unpolished. I wanted it to match. We taped off the flex pipe to give that the natural look. The wastegate pipe will be installed on Monday.
Dave

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: No problem, and thanks! It's so much fun seeing my visions pop into reality. The Haus of Guru is like my own real life Etch-a-Sketch. They're doing great! Yeah, the 2.0 turbo should be a BLAST compared to the dukey (LOL). Patience, young padawan. Good things will come in time (that's what I keep trying to tell myself anyway. )

I've driven the 2.0T with the 3spd auto he has it mated with now, and it IS fun. When it goes in my car it's getting mated to an Isuzu 5spd. and it's getting a twin Throttle Body conversion to help reduce turbo lag..

[This message has been edited by Rallaster (edited 08-13-2010).]

Dave, okay. I think the paint will burn off in time, though, at least near the turbine. It does look very good in black.
I sent you an email.

Rallaster, cool. That should be a super-fun setup with the 5-speed. I'm not too familiar with that engine setup, how exactly will the twin TB's reduce lag over the single?


Here's one more pic of the exhaust. Before long we should have pics of it all installed.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 08-14-2010).]

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: Dave, okay. I think the paint will burn off in time, though, at least near the turbine. It does look very good in black. I sent you an email. Rallaster, cool. That should be a super-fun setup with the 5-speed. I'm not too familiar with that engine setup, how exactly will the twin TB's reduce lag over the single?

The way it was explained to me is that it allows for a higher air flow into the intake and allows the turbo to spool up faster.

[This message has been edited by Rallaster (edited 08-14-2010).]

Wow, the stock TB must be tiny then!


I just came across a popular pic I've been meaning to save. I can see my turbo getting that hot on a hot open-track-day. When I first bought my AWD Talon it was stock, and one snowy day I went out to do AWD donuts. After a few minutes of spinning around and getting dizzy, we stopped because we smelled something a little funny. I popped the hood and we saw a red glow coming from underneath the exhaust mani heat shield. The manifold and turbine were glowing, and it was about 30 degrees out! That was only with the stock 11psi and 210hp.
I have good reason to be paranoid about heat and cracking with this one.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 08-18-2010).]

That looks familiar... On the way back from Fiero Fest last weekend my trunk carpet got melted and a foam pad I had packed away... I have to do something about the heat coming off the headers.