quote Originally posted by Rallaster: You want 10's. The additional weight is going to be negligible with the amount of power your Turbo 6 is going to be putting to the pavement. /concern

It's not just the power/weight ratio, I'm more concerned about the handling. While the weight will be fairly centralized, it's still extra weight, and that puts more stress on everything.

The Pioneer shallow 10's I have weigh 25lbs for both, and the extra-shallow 8's I'm looking at weigh 8lbs for both. I guessing the boxes for the 10's would weigh about 10 lbs extra for both, compared to the boxes for the 8's. That's ~27 lbs total. While not seeming like much, it all adds up, I'm adding a lot of weight to this car, but trying to keep the increase minimal. Leaving out subs altogether is not an option, and my symmetry obsession states that I have to have one on each side.
The 8's are also shallower so would save me about an inch behind each seat.

Here are the 10's I have-
http://www.pioneerelectroni...ers/Shallow/TS-SW251

And here are the 8's, they are direct replacements for the underseat subs on some BMW's. Lots of people are very happy (and impressed) with these subs. (Click on SWS-8 down at the bottom)
http://www.earthquakesound....virtuemart&Itemid=82

Either pair would be using the Pioneer amp I bought for the car. It would overdrive the 8's if I let it, but I wouldn't, and there's probably a decent bit of error margin built into the subs anyway. For the 10's wired in parallel (2-ohms), it is the perfect amp.

I'm mostly typing this out for my future reference, it helps to have it laid out in front of me, but also for anyone interested.
I'll decide eventually.

As for MIDTRBO updates, I'm waiting for Dave to recover from the apparently insane amount of BMW (etc.) work that he's been getting in.


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'10 Camaro LT/RS, 312hp V6 6-speed
'88 Fiero GT - coming soon! - Project MIDTRBO

The rest of my cars are for sale
There's no replacement for turbo placement

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 11-08-2010).]

I have one of the SWS-10's behind the passenger's seat of my 86 GT with about 150 watts on it, and it slams pretty good for such a small box.

Tony

Cool, thanks for chiming in. What is your box's internal volume?

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 11-08-2010).]

Roughly .5 cubic feet. Outside dimensions are 27" tall, 20" wide, and 3.5" thick.

I haven't had much time to fool with it, but this winter I am going to build a box to put it in the factory location. With the shallow depth of the sub, I might be able to get it flush with the bottom of the dash.

Tony

Thanks Tony, that gives me a good physical comparison.


Well there's not much to do while sitting here in pain, so I figured I'd digitally load up Amida's Fi 512TR nose and Whodeanie's production F355 bumper onto my Fiero (though the color is still 'wrong' as previously mentioned).
I used pics of a real 512TR and F355 for this PS.
With some design of matching sideskirts, I think these will look fantastic together.

I like it. Lemme know what you think.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 11-14-2010).]

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: Thanks Tony, that gives me a good physical comparison. Well there's not much to do while sitting here in pain, so I figured I'd digitally load up Amida's Fi 512TR nose and Whodeanie's production F355 bumper onto my Fiero (though the color is still 'wrong' as previously mentioned). I used pics of a real 512TR and F355 for this PS. With some design of matching sideskirts, I think these will look fantastic together. I like it. Lemme know what you think.

quote Originally posted by tonycampbell86gt: Roughly .5 cubic feet. Outside dimensions are 27" tall, 20" wide, and 3.5" thick. I haven't had much time to fool with it, but this winter I am going to build a box to put it in the factory location. With the shallow depth of the sub, I might be able to get it flush with the bottom of the dash. Tony

Wow. The SWS-10 looks like it wants 3x that for box volume. And the SWS-8 is still rated at about 1.0 cu ft. But with only 0.5 cu ft available, the 8 would probably sound 100x better than the 10 does.

But this is why I tell people that depending on where in the passenger cabin you mount the sub, a 6.5" or 8" is really the largest you want to go.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Wow. The SWS-10 looks like it wants 3x that for box volume. And the SWS-8 is still rated at about 1.0 cu ft. But with only 0.5 cu ft available, the 8 would probably sound 100x better than the 10 does. But this is why I tell people that depending on where in the passenger cabin you mount the sub, a 6.5" or 8" is really the largest you want to go.

Odd. The documentation with the sub actually calls for a minimum sealed volume of 0.38, and a maximum sealed volume of 0.75 for the 10".

Tony

There are a whole lot of compromises in both driver and box design to accomodate small boxes, not the least of which is that of proper volume. A given driver might produce acceptable results in a box that small, but the proper design based on Thiele-Small parameters to give a good response curve would have a much greater volume.

As I recall from my box building days, 1/2 cf is a tiny box even for an 8" driver.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-14-2010).]

just a quick update (should have been done two weeks ago, but we have been going nuts here). Anyway, we fabricated a custom battery mount using Steven's battery spec. He wanted the battery as far down and close to the windshield as possible, so here is what we came up with.





and this is what I see when I come home.....I think my dog is saying I don't spend enough time with her.

Happy Thanksgiving all!

Thanks Dave.
It's about time for the car get some JUICE again. Just please make sure the battery stays fully charged in the meantime, I want it to last many years. It'll be on a tender full time when in my garage.

LOL @ your dog and cat. That is totally a LOLCAT worthy pic, you should submit it!

quote Originally posted by Will: There are a whole lot of compromises in both driver and box design to accommodate small boxes, not the least of which is that of proper volume. A given driver might produce acceptable results in a box that small, but the proper design based on Thiele-Small parameters to give a good response curve would have a much greater volume. As I recall from my box building days, 1/2 cf is a tiny box even for an 8" driver.

The graph for my 10's is available on Pioneer's website, along with other detailed specifications, though I don't feel like looking it up right now. I don't remember if the documentation is available online for the SWS-8's, but I'm sure I can obtain that info easily enough.
I'm not going for an optimal system in this car (that requires center seating for me to want to even bother), just something that will sound plenty decent, and it will. I have several built in high and low pass crossover options as well as a built in EQ to tune in a reasonable bass curve for any of my options.


I'm annoyed. Of course after I ordered all of my 2 1/16" auxiliary gauges, Speedhut comes out with a 4 inch "quad gauge" displaying 4 of the exact gauges that I bought, but in a perfect package to make my instrument cluster symmetrical (symmetry is next to godliness). I'd have a 4" quad on the left, 4" GPS speedo on the right, and 4" tach right in the center. Add one more 2 1/16" gauge to my current package (oil temp sounds about right), and I'll have exactly three left over to mount into a 3 gauge plate located in the factory aux gauge housing (boost, WB AFR and oil temp). 3 in the cluster and 3 in the housing, that's also symmetrical by the numbers. Have I mentioned that I'm obsessed with symmetry?

Here it is (pictured here exactly as I'd order it)...

http://www.speedhut.com/cus...-auto_number-896.htm



I'm selling my 4 equivalent 2 1/16" gauges for $300 total. That's an insane steal for all 4, brand new in boxes.
Full retail for all 4 is just under $500, and still just under $400 at 20% off with their Thanksgiving sale! The actual gauges are pictured on page 4.
I have to sell them before I get the quad. I'll be posting these in The Mall. Anyone interested?

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 11-25-2010).]

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: Oh, and I made a new sig. Let me know what you think!

It would look better in color and a little sharper.

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: http://www.speedhut.com/cus...-auto_number-896.htm I'm selling my 4 equivalent 2 1/16" gauges for $300 total. That's an insane steal for all 4, brand new in boxes. Full retail for all 4 is just under $500, and still just under $400 at 20% off with their Thanksgiving sale! The actual gauges are pictured on page 4. I have to sell them before I get the quad. I'll be posting these in The Mall. Anyone interested?

Now that I'm driving my car again, I'm thinking of things like instrumentation. The stock tach won't cut it anymore, and I'm tired of the engine instrumentation not being *accurate*. That quad looks like a really good idea.

Doesn't look like they have digital speedometers, though. An analog speedometer is a waste of instrument panel space, IMNSHO. I'd much rather have a digital speedo/odo/trip (maybe as part of a diagnostic display) surrounded by indicator lights than use that space for an analog speedo and have to locate the lights elsewhere.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-25-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Daredevil05: It would look better in color and a little sharper. Try the heatwave look. Ever looked across a parking lot on a hot day and see that it looks kind of funny? That would be cool.

The blurry look did look better in color, I put it in b&w afterward and it took away most of the depth. That does make me want to try something else. I like the heatwave idea, I'll have to try that when I'm feeling miserable again.
I have it in black and white because it isn't finished yet, and so it is the stock color currently (which I dislike) but I don't want to put in the PS'd color(s) that it will be, because it isn't yet.
Thanks for the feedback.

quote Originally posted by Will: Now that I'm driving my car again, I'm thinking of things like instrumentation. The stock tach won't cut it anymore, and I'm tired of the engine instrumentation not being *accurate*. That quad looks like a really good idea. Doesn't look like they have digital speedometers, though. An analog speedometer is a waste of instrument panel space, IMNSHO. I'd much rather have a digital speedo/odo/trip (maybe as part of a diagnostic display) surrounded by indicator lights than use that space for an analog speedo and have to locate the lights elsewhere.

As I've mentioned before, I can't recommend Speedhut enough. They are everything I want in a company and product.

You can get various standalone digital speedos (or make your own) and I'd like one as well, but I don't think the analog is bad. They also make them in 3 3/8's and even 2 5/8's to take up less room. If you get the Revolution series gauges then they all come with integrated settable hi/low warning lights so you wouldn't need that room. All you'd need is a couple small spaces for LED's for things like the Check Engine light and washer fluid level or whatever, and that's cake. You can even get some of their speedometers with integrated turn signal indicators and high-beam indicator. IIRC you didn't want a GPS speedo, but they do come with a digital odometer and trip odometer along with peak speed recall and other performance measurements too.

Can't beat a ticket with a GPS speedometer...

You're in VA, you can't beat a ticket anyway.

Any updates? Any more pics from the Haus?

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1987 SE / Fastback - 3500 Turdbowd / '92 5-speed swap

No bandwagon here...

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: You're in VA, you can't beat a ticket anyway.

Can and have.
With a stick, too.

quote Originally posted by 87_special: Any updates? Any more pics from the Haus?

He's been slammed with his normal business. I'm hoping for updates soon, too. The car is very close.
Pretty much all that's left other than a couple odds and ends is to combine the two wiring harnesses (stock Fiero and stock TGP) to make my actual harness.

I really want it back now so I can get to driving, tuning, and installing the water/air IC setup while it's cold out (and now that my broken truck will be gone), the cold temps are very helpful to quell detonation while I'm tuning (It should also be pretty darn quick like that). That'll nearly complete the "Stage I" powertrain, then it's on to finish the "Stage I" phase of the body which will include some slightly more extreme mods than the usual. I plan on passing it on to Whodeanie to complete the time consuming parts (fiberglass work and a FULL DEPTH extractor tray/hood.) After that it'll head back over to Waldorf, MD to lildevil's paint booth for its new coating of awesome. During all of the above, the interior will be slowly updated to a jet black theme with a few blue contrasting bits and "comfy" reclinable racing seats, and the Speedhut gauges.

Once all that's done I'll dive back into the suspension that will hopefully have my custom parts designed, produced, test fitted, and ready to install by then. I'm serious about the handling, I won't accept any of the 'usual' mods that compromise the decent geometry that the '88 already has, instead I'll make it better and stronger.

That will complete the car's "Stage I", and it should be a blast and well balanced in every way, definitely on par with or beyond the performance levels of the 'good' modern sportscars.
I'll then start "Stage II", that's when it gets serious.

Oh, and I tweaked my sig slightly this morning, just a few minor things that were bugging me that I had time to get to.


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'88 Fiero GT - Project MIDTRBO
'10 Camaro LT/RS
There's no replacement for turbo placement

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 12-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by 87_special: Any updates? Any more pics from the Haus?

If you don't hear from me, that is typically good news.....it means I'm working on the car.
We slowed down a bit, so I'm spending about three hours a day working on Midtrbo. We are doing the wiring harness install now, along with other odds and ends. The BOV has been installed. The coil cover has been fabricated and powdercoated wrinkle black. The PCV system has been modified. The vacuum system is almost completed with the exception of the turbo hoses. The decklid has been notched.
Anyway, I'm billing Steven for this time, so let me get back to work.
Dave

battery cables fabricated and installed. More work on the wiring harness has been done. I'll post up some pics when I get a sec.
Dave

spent 6 hours on the wiring harness today. The plenum and throttle body have been permenantly mounted with gaskets. Fuel injector wiring is completed with master plug. Most of the engine sensors have been wired up with new ecm terminals. Located the vss plug and terminal kit for the impulse sender (it will be delivered Thursday).
Other than that, I should have the wiring harness completed this week.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 12-14-2010).]