I need a high output alternetor for my car. I can only find a 220 amp upgrade. Can the Fiero electrical handle it?

Bump...I still like my hamster idea.

quote Originally posted by lildevil: I need a high output alternetor for my car. I can only find a 220 amp upgrade. Can the Fiero electrical handle it?

You should already be running a 130 amp alterantor on your 3800SC swap. That's quite a powerful alternator in itself. May I ask why you need more than that?

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Um...
I just bought a 140 amp Powermaster alternator, but didnt get a chance to put it in yet.

220 amp? Wow! Thats some serious juice flowing through those old wires!???

any decent stereo system needs alot of power, when my was running in my Zed my headlights etc were always dim. had 110 i think. old or new wires shouldnt matter all that much...but if its a stereo system why use stock wires...they make much better ones.

quote Originally posted by Hockaday: Bump...I still like my hamster idea.

I have one of these under the hood adds extra power. I like my dual motors anyone that asks what is under hood gets to see the mouse wheel.

I'm using a factory CS-144 140amp from a bonneville/cadilliac.

quote Originally posted by Australian: I will follow this thread carefully as you would be surprised what a high amp alternator will do it actually adds a lot more horsepower. The reason i say that is there are 85 amp 100 amp and 130 amp boshe alternators for the e30 bmw when you put a more powerful one on the difference is clearly noticed.

I believe that we need to look at any horsepower gain two different ways. If you don't have enough power to drive all of your vital onboard systems then the increase in alternator amperage output may help power. However, high amperage alternators when used at the high power levels require more horsepower to drive. Point is that it probably all depends on the circumstance. An alterantor with a 130 or 140 ampergae output is putting out a tremendous amount of power. Even an aftermarket 1200 W stereo booster amplifier only draws 10 amps and a 3600 watt unit draws 30 amps. if you are running a 130 Amp alternator like GM's C-130D you have 100 amps reserve capacity. You can actually arc weld with that much power.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I believe that we need to look at any horsepower gain two different ways. If you don't have enough power to drive all of your vital onboard systems then the increase in alternator amperage output may help power. However, high amperage alternators when used at the high power levels require more horsepower to drive. Point is that it probably all depends on the circumstance. An alterantor with a 130 or 140 ampergae output is putting out a tremendous amount of power. Even an aftermarket 1200 W stereo booster amplifier only draws 10 amps and a 3600 watt unit draws 30 amps. if you are running a 130 Amp alternator like GM's C-130D you have 100 amps reserve capacity. You can actually arc weld with that much power.

That was insightful and well put.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Even an aftermarket 1200 W stereo booster amplifier only draws 10 amps and a 3600 watt unit draws 30 amps. if you are running a 130 Amp alternator like GM's C-130D you have 100 amps reserve capacity. You can actually arc weld with that much power.

Dennis, While I fundamentally agree with you, the math example you quote is a little shakey. First of all you can't directly compare watts of radiated power with power draw. And second of all even if you could your first amp would draw 100 amps and the second one 300 amps.

Obviously aftermarket amps don't usually draw that much and the reason is that radiated power is often grossly exaggerated. That 1200W amp is lucky to be putting out 400W of RMS power in which case it's drawing 33 amps, (actually a bit more because of inefficiency some of the power consumed is turned into heat.)

If you had an amp that really is putting out 1200W RMS of radiated power he is going to really need that 220 AMP alternator. Otherwise, upgrade to a bigger batter and only run at max loudness for a short period of time before the battery dies.

BTW, I have an aftermarket 140 AMP alternator and I never have an issue with lights dimming with my 400W (grossly exaggerated) amp

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 06-21-2010).]

Well i only need a 140 alternator, but can only find a 105 amp or 220 for a 98 Buick Regal GS (the motor my car has). What other alternators will work with out worrying about mounting, belt,and harness issues.

When the fan , headlights , radio and foglights are on i am only seeing 10-11 volts from the alternator.

First of all, the 130 in CS-130 or CS-130D does not designate the current rating of the alternator but rather the diameter of the stator... The stock 3800 series has a 105AMP CS-130D.

Check this out...

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 06-21-2010).]

thanks carbon...ordered one from them. Hope it gets here by Thursday.

Well if anyone else reads this for the future, I got my 140 amp from a 1998 3800SC bonneville. Oddly enough, it fits the stock 3800 alternator bracket.

I got my 140 amp alternator from the Fiero Store. It's a Powermaster and was dropped shipped directly from them. It went right in.

I have an 180 amp - I think (it has been a while since I got it. I know it was the biggest thing that I could get at teh time that was a direct bolt on. I did change the wiring to a larger gauge to make sure I was not providing a choke point for the amperage.

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: Well if anyone else reads this for the future, I got my 140 amp from a 1998 3800SC bonneville. Oddly enough, it fits the stock 3800 alternator bracket.

I didn't know the Bonneville used the CS-144... cool. Huh... the Firebird and Grand Prix both used the CS-130D. Good to know, but are all the alternator brackets the same regardless?

It looks like Buick is the same kind of deal... only the LeSabre has the CS-144, but then the Bonneville and LeSabre are on the same platform aren't they?

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 06-22-2010).]

quote Originally posted by carbon: I didn't know the Bonneville used the CS-144... cool. ...only the LeSabre has the CS-144, but then the Bonneville and LeSabre are on the same platform aren't they?

Yep. CS-144 is an exellent choice.

quote Originally posted by lildevil: When the fan , headlights , radio and fog lights are on i am only seeing 10-11 volts from the alternator.

You should still not have 10 volts with just those accessories on, unless you have a bad alternator. The Bonni/Buicks had heated seats, heated windshield, rear defrost, etc, which drew a ton of amperage. The stuff you listed should have no problem even at idle. It might drop to 13 something from 14.5, but never 10-11 volts.

Also for anyone going really big like 180+, remember they don't put out nearly as much at idle as a stock alternator, they need higher rpm's.

Which brings up another good point. LILDEVIL, if you are not worried about every single HP, and are willing to sacrifice one or two, I would recommend talking to an alternator shop and bring them your new one. They should be able to find you a FORD six rib pulley that is about 10% smaller. This will spin it faster at idle, which is great for city driving, stereo systems, etc. I've done it on all mine and never had any premature failure issues.

Chad

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Intercooled SC3800 II/III mated to a Getrag. 19's with 13" Brakes on all 4 corners. 5 years in Avionics & 15 years in Car Electronics Experience.

Instead of searching around for a higher amp alternator that may or may not work, Why not just take it to a speed shop that can rewind alternators??

I had my alternator rewound for around $60. I had it wound for 200 amps and they installed a heavy duty regulator.
Most shops that rewind alternators can wind them up for whatever current rating you want (as long as the windings will physically fit in the case.) Call local high end automotive stereo shops as well. They either have someone who rewinds them or they have a local shop that does it for them.

Dennis, It isn't so much the amp draw that matters when utilizing it for a stereo system, But rather the ability to provide the higher current and faster rates for high powered stereo systems. Hook an O'scope to measure current on an amp and you will see how fast and high the current will spike as the music is being played.

FYI ~ amps = wattage/voltage In terms of car audio equipment, see jscott1's post above.

quote Originally posted by lildevil: Well i only need a 140 alternator, but can only find a 105 amp or 220 for a 98 Buick Regal GS (the motor my car has). What other alternators will work with out worrying about mounting, belt,and harness issues. When the fan , headlights , radio and foglights are on i am only seeing 10-11 volts from the alternator.

If you are only seeing 10-11 volts with those accessories on, It may not be an alternator's output that is your problem.

First thing to do is to measure the resistance of the alternator case to the engine block and the negative side of the battery. If either is higher than 2 ohms, You do not have a very good ground path. Next check the positive side. (disconnect positive terminal off of battery and check from alt power to terminal) Should also be less than 2 ohms. You may need to upgrade the wire sizes for both power and/or ground of the alternator. When you built your car, did you paint or coat any brackets? If so, this can add resistance to the path. With all the accessories turned off and engine running, Do you have 14.4volts? If not than the problem is NOT the alternators amperage but rather you have resistance in the charging system.
Many people have this issue when the wires get old/corroded or they move the battery up front and do not run the ground side (with a proper sized cable) all the way back to the engine block.


A 105 amp alternator should give you about 1500 max watts of power.
With the accessories you mentioned you should be typically using 700W

So if that is the case your power consumption should be:
Headlights - 120W
Side/tail lights - 50W (+ about 60W for brake/turn when in use)
Foglamps - 120W
radiator fan - 55W
typical engine running - about 205W (ignition, fuel injection, PCM, etc.)
small stereo system (stock or mild aftermarket) about 20W
typical battery charging is around 80-85W (can be as high as 150W with a weak battery)
misc accessories (fan, gauges, dash lights, etc.) 25W

That is 48 amps of usage which is less than 50% of the max. You should have no voltage drop/loss.
(note: most alternator regulators don't work well under 800rpm so you may see a slight drop in voltage at idle but it should not be less than 12.5V.)

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 06-22-2010).]

MSD # 5110 , 160 amp. works nice.

quote Originally posted by MOBILE: Which brings up another good point. LILDEVIL, if you are not worried about every single HP, and are willing to sacrifice one or two, I would recommend talking to an alternator shop and bring them your new one. They should be able to find you a FORD six rib pulley that is about 10% smaller. This will spin it faster at idle, which is great for city driving, stereo systems, etc. I've done it on all mine and never had any premature failure issues. Chad

The Powermaster 140 amp alternator that I got came with a smaller pulley installed. I was going to remove it, but it was stuck on there so good I couldn't get it off.

just to add a little input, my friend was powering two amps (800watts RMS on one, and 400 RMS o nthe other) together at the same time, and even with the stock alt in his 05 Taurus, at full blast the lights NEVER dimmed. the dome lights would dim a tad if we were playing around with really low frequencies. otherwise, whatever the stock alternater was capable of in a 05 Taurus, is plenty for around 1200watts RMS.

with nearly 500watts RMS in my stereo system (before i turned it down and killed my sub... ), and stock alt, nothing dimmed. my lighhts dim when i start the engine, tho...

I installed a stock alt from my 86 SE in a Corvette with a two amps, one is 1000 and the other is 1200 but I doubt very much that its RMS. Hold on I will run out and turn it on see if you can hear it LOL
Anyway the stock 2.8 alt runs that setup, head lights and keeps the motor running and battery charged without any problems.

Well I ordered that alternator lastnite and got a email today saying it s not available. I know the alternator i have is going bad but wanted to replace it with one with more power. When racing the car i usually have the driving lights, parking lights and fan on. I want to make sure the pump and PCM is getting as much voltage as possible. I bought a alternator voltage booster from zzp and it worked great. I wanted to eliminate it with a more powerful alternator. So...I am going to get a stock 105 amp alterntor as it worked fine for the last 8 years its been in the car. And then try to have the old on rebuilt and rewound like orief said. I need to get to carlisle this weekend.

Now i remember when i was first doing this swap that the grand prix and the regals had a different mounting bracket on the back side of the alterntor. The buicks was square and the grandprixs was round. But i couldn't remember if the alternators looked differnet. So can i get a alternator for a 98 Grand prix and it will mount with no modification?

I found that any alternators I tried using in a fiero were just effected by the aged wiring, and would never charge what I wanted 12.0-12.5.

I ended up putting 2 $0.10 diode's in line with the sense wire, and I now get just short of 15 volts cold, and mid/low 14's warm. I have been using this for almost 2 years now and it works great!