to make sure this is fiero related, i own a fiero and this is practice for building clean weld headers and mounts.
i got a chicago electric 90 amp welder from harbor freight on sale for 79 bux im getting better at welding, nice lines. but the spatter... since its not a gas, its flux im getting spatter. i tried welding in a pool of water on the practice steel and it had hardly any spatter! i read on instructables that you could spray on some cooking spray and it should reduce it. it did, but not as good as welding in that lil pool of water. any tips and advice would be very greatly much appreciated.
When I used to weld with flux core, I would just scrap or grind the splatter away... not much of an issue.
They do sell some splatter spray, but it does not stop the splatter, just keeps it from sticking.
It helps to prep only the area you are welding... paint, rust or scale are all good to keep splatter from sticking. Blue painters tape also works well (used it when I welded the inside of a tripod cage), but it will burn/flame and leave a sticky adhesive residue, but works well and has precision placement.
Your bigger challange will be welding the exhaust headers with flux core. It is do able (I have done it several times), but it is hard to get good weld pool flow with flux core w/o burning through, especially on butt welds.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-19-2010).]
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07:07 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
just like to hear... and not hear lol. the first butt i tried welding looked like total ass, excuse the pun haha. ill give the painters tape a try, ive got rolls of that. just burn the sticky residue off, no biggie really.
Turn your wire speed down. Too much wire speed will cause splatter. Once you have it right the splatter should scrape off with a putty knife. I use a 3 inch wire brush on my grinder to remove the slag and splatter.
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07:33 PM
Pete Matos Member
Posts: 2291 From: Port St. Lucie, Florida Registered: Jan 2010
You might try and see if your welder has a gas conversion kit available for it, many of them do. I started with a stick welder years ago, then I bought one of the inexpensive flux core welders and thought it was awesome. About three years ago I had a friend who had a welding shop and had a large industrial L-tec tig unit and he was buying a truck mounted unit and needed the cash so I bought this tig for a great price. Lemme tell you that you have not welded until you tig weld.... just beautiful.... Stainless, aluminum, about anything you want to weld is no problem... I understand that they now have a small inverter tig welder at harbor freight that is actually not that bad but it does not have ac so you cannot weld aluminum. However if you wanna weld headers or exhaust systems tig is the way to go I say.... I have a larger Miller Mig here and I love it but for most stuff the tig gets the nod.... You have just so much control of the heat and that makes it easier to weld think stuff pretty.... peace
Pete
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07:35 PM
Pete Matos Member
Posts: 2291 From: Port St. Lucie, Florida Registered: Jan 2010
I just realized I did not help you with my post... Actually I agree higher wire feed has the effect of cooling the weld a tad and depending on your position can cut down on the splatter. I know mine usually would knock right off with a wire brush but I would get a welding blanket and cover anything important with it. Good luck.... peace
Pete
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07:37 PM
Khw Member
Posts: 11139 From: South Weber, UT. U.S.A. Registered: Jun 2008
I agree, turn the wire speed down some and try it. A common mistake when someone first starts welding is feeding the wire to fast. I've seen it alot. The weld will pop and sputter so the person thinks it's not getting wire fast enough. Problem is it's getting it to fast so it can't burn it up quick enough.
You will still have splatter, but most of it should be able to be scraped off with a cold chisel. A wire brush or wire wheel (as posted earlier) works pretty good also, but some more... solid splatter might take a quick tap with the chisel and possibly a hammer.
I know the welder your talking about. My Father gave me one for Christmas a few years back. It doesn't have hook ups for gas and best I can tell there doesn't appear to be a modification kit to use gas. Also kind of sucks that your limited to the small wire rolls. I modded mine by popping a hole in the back of the case and welding up a cart to stick it in that let me use a 10lb roll externally while using it in my garage. When using it portably, I had to go back to the couple of pound rolls.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-19-2010).]
What helps with mine is firstly, use the .35 wire. Second, stitch the welds instead of trying to lay a solid bead. I now weld a spot, then the next spot I place the wire right beside and up against the first weld and so on and so on.
It is slower, but, there is next to no splatter, and I use a stainless steel wire brush to brush away excess flux fairly often.
This should help.
Arn
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09:37 PM
RotrexFiero Member
Posts: 3692 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Jul 2002
What he said above. I have been using a flux core for years, and you have to stitch weld. You then work you way back. I never made pretty welds, that is the curse of the flux core welder, but they all have held. Exhaust work is a challenge, but who really cares about how it looks -- it's all under the car.
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09:47 PM
Jul 20th, 2010
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12449 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
try higher amps you will always get spatter if your amps are too low, however get yourself some antispatter spray this will help you. if you go with a co2/argon mix then you should be spatter free from using standard bare wire as oposed to flux cored wire.
flux core wire on hobby mig welders is there only because you are not using gas, similar to mma/stick welding. that said flux core wire in heavy industry is there for maximum strength like using low-hydrogen rods with mma welding
please feel free to ask.
jon
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02:24 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
to make sure this is fiero related, i own a fiero and this is practice for building clean weld headers and mounts.
i got a chicago electric 90 amp welder from harbor freight on sale for 79 bux
I have the same welder. I recently welded together a custom exhaust system with it. I noticed that if I turn up the wire feed speed and power, the splatter is reduced. Also, sitting the pieces out in the sunlight or using a torch to pre-heat them helped reduce splatter and improve penetration.
That said, I had to weld together several pieces of exhaust pipe that were butted up against each other. The high power setting was too much for that. It burned holes in the pipe. So I had to turn down the power and stitch-weld them.
That said, I still got some splatter (with a flux-core welder, it's unavoidable). But it cleaned up pretty easily with an angle grinder.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 07-20-2010).]
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02:40 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
I have the same welder. I recently welded together a custom exhaust system with it. I noticed that if I turn up the wire feed speed and power, the splatter is reduced. Also, sitting the pieces out in the sunlight or using a torch to pre-heat them helped reduce splatter and improve penetration.
That said, I had to weld together several pieces of exhaust pipe that were butted up against each other. The high power setting was too much for that. It burned holes in the pipe. So I had to turn down the power and stitch-weld them.
That said, I still got some splatter (with a flux-core welder, it's unavoidable). But it cleaned up pretty easily with an angle grinder.
awesome, thanks for the tips. and blacktree, glad to hear some tips from someone with the same welder i have.
i practiced my welding yesterday... got sunburnt on my arms from the welding i forgot that can happen. oops.
my first weld... went a tad bit too fast... i wasnt letting it pool
once i got a tad bit better, i tried welding in a little pool of water... not bad. hardly and spatter. i was amazed.
Little circles, or a back and forth arc. It looks like your welding in a straight line and that won't be a very strong weld. You need to kinda push the puddle back and forth into itself with the wire as you weld. It should give you much better penetration and also a flatter weld. Should come out looking more like dimes stacked flat across the surface.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-21-2010).]
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12:43 AM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
Turn up your heat and slow down. The weld is too skinny. You are getting closer with the last one, but still running too much wire speed and too cold. You say your welding on water? Welding on water will cause bubbles in your weld called porosity, that will make your weld weak. Work with your heat and wire speed settings and you will get the hang of it.
Safety, put a shirt on. Those arc burns can get bad and quick, much worse than a sun burn. What kind of helmet are you using? You want a full face helmet. Gloves are also important, you don't want to burn your hands. Safety glasses or goggles is a must when your cleaning up your welds, a wire brush and flick a piece of metal in your eye and then its off to the hospital.
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05:17 AM
Australian Member
Posts: 4701 From: Sydney Australia Registered: Sep 2004
What helps with mine is firstly, use the .35 wire. Second, stitch the welds instead of trying to lay a solid bead. I now weld a spot, then the next spot I place the wire right beside and up against the first weld and so on and so on.
It is slower, but, there is next to no splatter, and I use a stainless steel wire brush to brush away excess flux fairly often.
This should help.
Arn
Is this just as strong, though? I've never used this technique. (The 'stitch') This is something i'm going to try when i get my hands on a welder again. I would suggest covering anything important with thick hide leather. Welders use it to cover there skin, why not your car!
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10:11 AM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
Safety, put a shirt on. Those arc burns can get bad and quick, much worse than a sun burn. What kind of helmet are you using? You want a full face helmet. Gloves are also important, you don't want to burn your hands.
Very good points. I personally use an auto-dimming helmet, long leather gloves, and a long-sleeve shirt while welding.
Welding generates a lot of UV radiation. With unprotected skin, you can end up with 2nd degree burns (or worse) in no time.
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11:24 AM
SOV3RN Member
Posts: 223 From: Smithtown, NY, USA Registered: Jul 2010
Very good points. I personally use an auto-dimming helmet, long leather gloves, and a long-sleeve shirt while welding.
Welding generates a lot of UV radiation. With unprotected skin, you can end up with 2nd degree burns (or worse) in no time.
I would also suggest not staring at the arc. This is a big no-no as I am now and always will see blacks dots for the rest of my life. NO, I didn't stare at the arc, but constant welding in shop with careless welding has it's disadvantages! Learn from experience!
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12:05 PM
PFF
System Bot
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
I try to move my "gas cup" down much further than the wire tip. This lets you get a bit closer, and hold more of the flux gas / heat around the weld as well as catch spatter.
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12:35 PM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12449 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
I think the first thing you should do is chase the chickens out of your garage they keep pooping on your metal LOL
Just a joke. I remember when I was first learning, our instructor would tear us a new one until we could put down a good weld. I learned on stick 6010 all positions. Over head was fun, thats when I started wearing ear plugs when I weld.
[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 07-21-2010).]
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05:37 PM
87antuzzi Member
Posts: 11151 From: Surrounded by corn. Registered: Feb 2009
i have that same welder but all i can say is you have to be real deliberate with it. i've only used it, and a better gas one at work that i learned the little bit i know on. at work i can get away with what i call the "stab and tack" method (yeah, i made it up), but with the harbor freight one i have to get my bead going good and be more careful of the motion and all. more or less do it just like it was originaly shown to me.
i like it though. been using it to build some metal kitchen shelves and a table, and custom/freakbikes. i still take things to work to get a better weld with less splatter, but i try more and more things at home and i hope i can do it all at home eventually.
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06:17 PM
Khw Member
Posts: 11139 From: South Weber, UT. U.S.A. Registered: Jun 2008
Here is another one. The back side you can see where the heat from penetration burnt off the paint... this is a good indication you are running the welder hot enough.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-21-2010).]
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07:28 PM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12449 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
**Proper position works wonders... welding where you can not see will not lead to good welds. Gravity is usually your friend (unless welding overhead) so take full advantage of it. **Make sure you can see what you are working on while welding. If you can not see the movement of the weld pool, your success will be hit or miss. Sometimes you need to change the shade level in your helmet. **I prefer to pull the weld pool, which is dragging the gun backwards away from the area you just welded. **On equal thickness, I use a zig zag technique where I pull the weld to one side of the seam, then back to the other an equal amount on both sides. It helps to ensure you are getting good penetration on both halves, and spreading the heat out a bit to lessen the risk of bunring through. **On non-equal thicknesses, spend more time on the thicker material, it can take more heat. Then quickly pull the weld to the thinner material and back to the thicker - spend 70-90% of the time on the thicker material depending on thickness variation and thickness of the thin piece. On really thin material, I like to use gravity to help pull the weld pool over. I build the weld pool right along side the thinner material and let gravity pull it 1/16" into the thinner material.
**For a novice just getting started, run the welder at the maximum heat setting and about 1/2 wire speed on 1/8" to 3/16" metal. Run some beads and see how they lay down, you are looking for the weld bead to spread out and lay down vs. being round. When done, they should glow orange (even on the back side) for a few seconds after the welding stops. Burning through is OK at this stage and it is good to learn how that happens. **Next practice on lap joints where the pieced over lap at a seam. Position, position, position... if you can position is so the lap seam is a "V" vs. and "L" then gravity will help the weld pool flow into and fill up the joint. If you do it while they are in an "L" configuration, then the zig zag pattern making sure to melt the upper corner of the top piece works well too. **Butt joints are some of the most difficult since too much heat on either side of the joint will make that side blow out (especially on thinner material). Practice and technique go a long way with these. I prefer spot or stitch welds at a higher heat vs. running a solid bead at a lower setting. **Thicker materials (1/4" and thicker), should have the joints ground and tapered to ensure deep penetration into the welded joint
Welding is one of those life skills that comes in very handy and opens up a world of possibilities for your automotive projects.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-21-2010).]
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08:02 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
hey, if anyone's still reading this thread, has anyone noticed a difference in wire brands?
when i first got mine and was dealing with the spatter someone on another forum suggested switching to lincoln brand wire when i ran out. i did, but didn't really notice much difference, so for the 3rd roll i switched back to the cheap stuff at harbor freight.
also, it seems like my trying to get better with it is being hampered by what seems like the wire drive beginning to slip or something. i'm thinking about spraying the wire roll and drive with contact cleaner or something, in cse there's some kind of oily residue on it.
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08:44 AM
PFF
System Bot
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12449 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
hey, if anyone's still reading this thread, has anyone noticed a difference in wire brands?
when i first got mine and was dealing with the spatter someone on another forum suggested switching to lincoln brand wire when i ran out. i did, but didn't really notice much difference, so for the 3rd roll i switched back to the cheap stuff at harbor freight.
also, it seems like my trying to get better with it is being hampered by what seems like the wire drive beginning to slip or something. i'm thinking about spraying the wire roll and drive with contact cleaner or something, in cse there's some kind of oily residue on it.
If there is a significant difference, I haven't seen it. I normally run the wire from TSC (who sells mostly Hobart stuff), but have ran some of the Lincoln brand as well.
If the wire feed appears to be slipping, you should be able to increase the pressure between the two feed wheels. I just worked on a firends newer lincoln welder that had a plastic hub as part of the feed drive wheel. This was loose and starting to strip out allowing the wire to stop feeding while the feed motor was still spinning.
You should not introduce any chemical cleaners to the wire or sleeve... you just asking for contamination or worse.
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12:37 PM
Khw Member
Posts: 11139 From: South Weber, UT. U.S.A. Registered: Jun 2008
hey, if anyone's still reading this thread, has anyone noticed a difference in wire brands?
when i first got mine and was dealing with the spatter someone on another forum suggested switching to lincoln brand wire when i ran out. i did, but didn't really notice much difference, so for the 3rd roll i switched back to the cheap stuff at harbor freight.
also, it seems like my trying to get better with it is being hampered by what seems like the wire drive beginning to slip or something. i'm thinking about spraying the wire roll and drive with contact cleaner or something, in cse there's some kind of oily residue on it.
Yeah I have noticed a difference. I've used HF and Lincoln wire in mine. The HF wire has a plasticy/oily kinda residue on it that clogs the tip up and causes the drive to slip and not feed the wire. Hmm, actually that sounds like what your dealing with. I haven't had that happen with the Lincoln wire, but I won't buy the Lincoln wire on small spools. It just cost way to much. I buy the HF stuff when using small spools and use a 10lb roll of Lincoln wire when in my garage.
You might want to go to HF, Home Depot or Lowe's and pick up a pack of new tips. I keep a couple in my tool bag so I always have a extra incase one gets damaged or to clogged up. You could also pick up tip cleaner. Basically a drill like thingy sized to the tip hole diameter that you twist in the tip to clean all the gunk out.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-24-2010).]
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09:34 PM
Jul 24th, 2010
Philphine Member
Posts: 6136 From: louisville,ky. usa Registered: Feb 2000
i remembered once i started looking at it. when i put the last roll on, it was catiching coming through the gun so i loosened the drive to pull the wire back a couple of times. i must not have compleatly tightened it once i got it through. i was able to get a couple turns on the drive thumbscrew this morning and it worked some better.
i believe i'll have to second the auto darkening shield. i've been spoied by the work welder in that you can touch the wire to the work and nothing happens 'til you actually pull the trigger. it lets you get away without having the auto darkening type (they have one though. i just don't use it much unless i'm doing something heavy/serious). it would save a lot of mess from trying to aim it then flip my glasses down, then usually missing the exact spot anyway.
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10:03 AM
La fiera Member
Posts: 2276 From: Mooresville, NC Registered: Jun 2008
im getting better at welding, nice lines. but the spatter... since its not a gas, its flux im getting spatter. i tried welding in a pool of water on the practice steel and it had hardly any spatter! i read on instructables that you could spray on some cooking spray and it should reduce it. it did, but not as good as welding in that lil pool of water. any tips and advice would be very greatly much appreciated. 
i forgot that can happen. oops.
