Will, thanks for correcting me on the full size blazer calipers by doing physical obsevations....I was just working off of pictures on the web. I believe somone posted a pic of the correct S-10 blazer caliper though in another post above.

It should be noted for those daring enough to be bleeding edge and going for the lighter aluminum aftermarket calipers that I have heard from Stainless Steel Brake Co that their dual piston calipers (the red ones I posted earlier) DO have protective dust boots on their pistons and meet all DOT standards. I have not yet heard back from Wilwood about their GM Metric Aluminum caliper.

Anyone know the weight of the S-10 Blazer or Camaro calipers? Just curious if these aftermarker aluminum replacements are worth the trouble of researching (not to mention the extra cost).

Ken S.

[This message has been edited by kslish (edited 01-05-2005).]

WOW page 2 this thread is taking off !!!!!
Keep up the good work.

------------------
Bobby from NW Indiana
93 Northstar and 5 speed Getrag
219customs@verizon.net
My 86 GT build thread
MY 88 Northstar build thread

I'll be going with the blazer calipers for now since they are onyl 15$ before the core charge -- but its nice to know that there are nice aluminum options for later down the road

Yes, that's the nice thing about the Blazer calipers. I snagged two from the junk yard essentially for free (I drop off a lot of scrap iron to him), then used them as cores and picked up a pair of new ones for $35ish. Still have to get decent pads, though...

Just heard back from Wilwood. Their GM Metric calipers don't have any dust boots as "it is a racing caliper and there is no need for a dust boot in racing." Sucks that they don't try to cater to the performance street crowd....probably would sell a lot more product.

Guess the SSBC dual piston aluminum calipers are the only feasable aftermarket choice I found so far (too bad they cost so much...but they sure would look nice behind some rims).

Will....got a scale? Still curious about the weight of the stock calipers.....

Ken S.

I'll have to look at the SSBC calipers. Too bad about the Willwoods. I only put about 3K miles on my Fiero a year.

Steve

Sorry to steal the thread but does anyone know a good place to order rotors from? I went to canadian tire today to price out the same rotors [11.26" vented, rear, for an 89-94 LeBaron] used in this upgrade and it came to a sticker price of $86 per rotor. Good thread BTW.

quote Originally posted by FieroMikeTDC: Sorry to steal the thread but does anyone know a good place to order rotors from? I went to canadian tire today to price out the same rotors [11.26" vented, rear, for an 89-94 LeBaron] used in this upgrade and it came to a sticker price of $86 per rotor. Good thread BTW.

Rockauto.com has the cheapest price I've found so far...

quote Originally posted by Exodus5: Rockauto.com has the cheapest price I've found so far...

wow - thanks..

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 01-06-2005).]

Nice of GM to reuse so much $h!& so often...

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: Just incase anyone is curious - the s10 blazer caliper is the same P/N as the FRONT caliper for the 85 cadilac seville (85 cadilac seville is what you get the rear calipers from) so get the front and rear calipers from an 85 seville - the 4 rear rotors from an 89 chrysler lebaron - and the rest of the parts list edit: oh yeah the front calipers have a 2.5" bore and the rear have a 2.125" bore.. (along with the 1.125" blazer master cyl we can calc pressure ratios)

Hold up. I would assume Walt Zettner's extensive research would have found these calipers since the rears were on the seville. He stated in his article that he did a lot of research. Can anybody think of a reason why he recommended the Camaro calipers for the front in the first place? It just seems that he would have, after finding the seville rears fit, checked the fronts of the seville as well....

ALSO, are the brake pads on the S10/Seville fronts the same as from those Camaro calipers?

[This message has been edited by Exodus5 (edited 01-06-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Exodus5: Hold up. I would assume Walt Zettner's extensive research would have found these calipers since the rears were on the seville. He stated in his article that he did a lot of research. Can anybody think of a reason why he recommended the Camaro calipers for the front in the first place? It just seems that he would have, after finding the seville rears fit, checked the fronts of the seville as well.... ALSO, are the brake pads on the S10/Seville fronts the same as from those Camaro calipers?

seemed to me that he designed the setup around the camaro calipers - and had a hard timing finding rears that used the same pads as the camaro fronts.. since the 85 seville rears have the same pads as the camaro and the same pads are used on front and back of the seville i'd say yes.. probably just overlooked it..

I just confirmed they used the same brake pad part number - which is good because its easier to find performance pads listed for the camaro

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 01-06-2005).]

Yes, they use the same pads.

I think it's likely that he found and settled on the Camaro calipers for the front first, and just wasn't looking for front calipers when he found the Seville rear calipers.

Actually I have been told by more than one person now that Walt didn't design this kit at all. The story is that he reverse engineered the kit and published the design for the caliper brackets to take credit for it. If the story is true maybe he stumbled onto the Camaro calipers first and assumed they were the right ones because they looked similar.

I think there is a major flaw in the parking brake part of this swap also. I don't like the hockey stick parking brake cable bracket. I have seen several cars using this bracket and every one appeared as if the cables were pulled to tight. I was originally going to use the brackets until I figured out that suspension movement was actually applying the parking brake. What I ended up doing was using all of the Caddy hardware that came with the calipers and running the brake cables very close to the stock Fiero location. The caliper brackets however could be redesigned ever so slightly to make this routing even better as it puts the cables a little close to the CV joint boots. If I had the time I would do just that but my brake swap has been daily driven for almost 2 years all year round and haven’t had a problem yet.

I would also like to second the use of the front lebaron rotors instead of the rears. I have seen a couple of cars using these rotors and they look like they work better than the rears. For one they are probably lighter as they don't have the parking brake prevision. The pad also doesn’t hang off the inner diameter like it does with the rear rotors. I believe that the difference in offset might be a benefit also to keep the calipers from possibly hitting the front shocks if one chooses to remove the steering stops.

Overall the brake swap has been the best thing I have ever done to a Fiero in 12 years of Fiero ownership.

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quote Originally posted by Exodus5: Rockauto.com has the cheapest price I've found so far...

Pretty good deal for the rotors (only came up to 74 bucks for 4)but, I'd just get murdered on the shipping - $356.00 - OUCH!

Thanks for the link anyway. Even the parts seem pretty pissed off about the shipping. Heres his E-mail:

"Yes the shipping cost suck and that is why we recommend you have them shipped to a USA address
so they can forward to you using the USPS .

Our parts ship out of large warehouses where they are not set up to handle USPS shipments to other countries because of the paper work and the fact that someone would have to drive to the post office to present and ship the parts .

So much for NAFTA !!! What free trade!!!! I have to fill out 5 copies of an invoice to ship to Canada with FedEx while almost every other country it is only three! I think the BUSH GOV is trying to punish Canada .

Shipping to your location can be expensive. Our parts come from a variety of warehouses that use different shipping options. If USPS Global Express Mail is available for the part you have placed in your shopping cart, you can choose it from the drop down menu on the shopping cart screen.

The other option is if you know someone in the US that the parts can be shipped to. The parts can be shipped to the US address, then that person can ship them via the cheapest means possible to you."

Good luck,
Sam
RockAuto Customer Service

quote Originally posted by Jefrysuko: I think there is a major flaw in the parking brake part of this swap also. I don't like the hockey stick parking brake cable bracket. I have seen several cars using this bracket and every one appeared as if the cables were pulled to tight. I was originally going to use the brackets until I figured out that suspension movement was actually applying the parking brake. What I ended up doing was using all of the Caddy hardware that came with the calipers and running the brake cables very close to the stock Fiero location. The caliper brackets however could be redesigned ever so slightly to make this routing even better as it puts the cables a little close to the CV joint boots. If I had the time I would do just that but my brake swap has been daily driven for almost 2 years all year round and haven’t had a problem yet. I would also like to second the use of the front lebaron rotors instead of the rears. I have seen a couple of cars using these rotors and they look like they work better than the rears. For one they are probably lighter as they don't have the parking brake prevision. The pad also doesn’t hang off the inner diameter like it does with the rear rotors. I believe that the difference in offset might be a benefit also to keep the calipers from possibly hitting the front shocks if one chooses to remove the steering stops. Overall the brake swap has been the best thing I have ever done to a Fiero in 12 years of Fiero ownership.

I was planning to use the caddy ebrake bracket.. what did you have in mind for moving the caliper?

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: I was planning to use the caddy ebrake bracket.. what did you have in mind for moving the caliper?

Just rotating it down a little to gain a little more clearance between the parking brake cable and CV joint boot. It isn't going to gain much but it will be enough to give me piece of mind and make it a little easier to assemble. The only reason I can imagine that it wasn't designed like this in the first place would be if they didn't have a caliper with the original hardware on it.

Another reason why I gravitated towards the cadilac hardware was because the Fiero lever that Walt says to put on the back of the caliper just dosn't work quite right. When I put the Fiero lever on I noticed that the shaft could rotate back farther than the original caddy lever allowed. I have a feeling that a few locked up calipers are the result of using the fiero levers and not limiting the rotation.

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quote Originally posted by Jefrysuko: Just rotating it down a little to gain a little more clearance between the parking brake cable and CV joint boot. It isn't going to gain much but it will be enough to give me piece of mind and make it a little easier to assemble. The only reason I can imagine that it wasn't designed like this in the first place would be if they didn't have a caliper with the original hardware on it. Another reason why I gravitated towards the cadilac hardware was because the Fiero lever that Walt says to put on the back of the caliper just dosn't work quite right. When I put the Fiero lever on I noticed that the shaft could rotate back farther than the original caddy lever allowed. I have a feeling that a few locked up calipers are the result of using the fiero levers and not limiting the rotation.

makes sence - when I order my calipers I'll CAD up modified rear adaptor to do that

quote Originally posted by Will: Slight modification to the Fiero fitting will be necessary, but this can be done with a file.

Bumping this up so I can save it... And to ask a question. What modifications are necessary?

quote Originally posted by kslish: I sent an e-mail off to Wilwood to see what they have to say about the dust boot question on their GM Metric calipers. I also found another aftermarket supplier....these are dual piston aluminum replacements that replace the standard GM brake caliper and run about $150 each from Stainless Steel Brake Co.... Ahh the possibilities..... just need to do more research.... Ken S.

So do you think the stock 15" wheels could be used with this caliper?

[This message has been edited by The Aura (edited 01-31-2005).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Bumping this up so I can save it... And to ask a question. What modifications are necessary?

if anyone was looking for weight info on these parts, go to partsamerica.com and the weight of the different calipers is listed, or it was a few months ago anyways. good info keep it coming, my brakes need to be bigger under my new wheels and this will most likely be my swap. I already had all the info off of the Walt Z website but this should make my life easier and cheaper.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Bumping this up so I can save it... And to ask a question. What modifications are necessary?

There's a "wall" more or less around the fitting location on the caliper. The corners of the Fiero fitting need to be filed down just a smidge to clear this feature. Don't get brass filings in your brake fluid.

quote Originally posted by Will: There's a "wall" more or less around the fitting location on the caliper. The corners of the Fiero fitting need to be filed down just a smidge to clear this feature. Don't get brass filings in your brake fluid.

yeah that'd be a little worse than air in the lines

just to double check, is there any difference between the solid and vented rear lebaron rotors?

quote Originally posted by fierojhu25: just to double check, is there any difference between the solid and vented rear lebaron rotors?

yes the solid are like the stock 84-87 fiero - a disk of solid metal
you want the vented - they are like two disks of metal with fan blades inbetween to flow more air and cool themselves off

Not to throw a wrench into this thread but I was thinking last night. When I bought my 88 from Don he had a set of Grand Prix caliber he gave me. They are from a early 90's model and they are double piston. The problem I found is they need a alot thicker rotor.
The dia. of the rotor is 11-39/64
The thickness is 2-15/32"
with a disgard thickness of 1.215"

The Fieros digard thickness is 0.681"

------------------
Bobby from NW Indiana
93 Northstar and 5 speed Getrag
219customs@verizon.net
My 86 GT build thread
MY 88 Northstar build thread

Will, is that the Cadillac rear brake I told you about?
I was not sure if it was available on other years seville, only the 85.

quote Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY: Not to throw a wrench into this thread but I was thinking last night. When I bought my 88 from Don he had a set of Grand Prix caliber he gave me. They are from a early 90's model and they are double piston. The problem I found is they need a alot thicker rotor. The dia. of the rotor is 11-39/64 The thickness is 2-15/32" with a disgard thickness of 1.215" The Fieros digard thickness is 0.681"

I think that you're getting specs and years mixed up here. Early '90's Grand Prix used a rotor that wasn't much thicker than the '88 rotor. It has a very shallow hat section, and the associated calipers are iron dual piston. I looked at these a while back but disgarded the idea as being too complicated and requiring too much caliper clearance at the wheel.
Grand Prix didn't go to a 1.2"+ thick rotor until after '98, at which point they did not come with, but could have adapted, the two piston aluminum calipers from a '98+ F-body.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: Just incase anyone is curious - the s10 blazer caliper is the same P/N as the FRONT caliper for the 85 cadilac seville (85 cadilac seville is what you get the rear calipers from) so get the front and rear calipers from an 85 seville - the 4 rear rotors from an 89 chrysler lebaron - and the rest of the parts list edit: oh yeah the front calipers have a 2.5" bore and the rear have a 2.125" bore.. (along with the 1.125" blazer master cyl we can calc pressure ratios)

well, that does make it easy. now - how about the Master Cyl? sounds like the 85' caddy seville for the MC would be the place to start. can the stock Fiero one move enough fluid for the caddy calipers? or is there a front/rear bias problem with it?

^^^bump^^^ i want to add to favourites and read more later

The Fiero has a bias problem with STOCK brakes
An adjustable proportioning valve should be a part of ANY high end brake build on these cars.

quote Originally posted by Will: The Fiero has a bias problem with STOCK brakes An adjustable proportioning valve should be a part of ANY high end brake build on these cars.

How are they installed? I assume you need more braking power in the rear, so do you put the valve in line with the front brakes? Do you keep the stock prop. valve body to split to the sides?

And depending on the answer to that, what about the brake pressure sensor/light?

I haven't done mine yet, but what I'm going to try first is to make the stock prop valve adjustable. Might not be too hard.

If I can't make that work, I'll remove its guts and install and aftermarket prop valve on the rear line. The shuttle valve would stay intact.

With changes in relative piston diameter, brake proportioning must be changed. The stock Fiero setup is WAY underbraked in the rear, so getting more isn't hard.

Gotcha. Still seems kind of like a bad idea to "turn down" the front pressure... At least in my opinion. Valuable braking power wasting away...

quote Originally posted by Will: I haven't done mine yet, but what I'm going to try first is to make the stock prop valve adjustable. Might not be too hard.

You must have about 100 projects on your plate... Welcome to the century club

At any rate, I hope you figure it out. It would save me (everyone) $30 and bending hardline, and flaring.. <shudder> In the meantime, maybe I'll just remove that spring ...or did I mean shim it? Ow my brain.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 02-02-2005).]

Yeah, regulating front circuit pressure isn't what you want to do. You want build rear brakes just a little bit bigger than you need and dial them back just a little bit.

I worked at a GM dealership, 16 years ago. It was not uncommon to have the same part listed for two different cars under two different part #'s. The cadillac part would cost twice what the other would. It would be the same part but back then they would use two different #'s.Using the same part # for the two different vehicles that is different, from 16 years ago.