quote Originally posted by whodeanie: Dean Style! LMAO! Will I just got them and they look great. I think they are plenty thick enough. Nice Job!

I was just trying to get a rough idea how much any of these badges go for, but more specifically these with a "STE" instead.
Thanks

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If you're not scared, you're obviously not going fast enough.
I <3 my clutch.

Hey gang, I got called out of town (out of the country actually) and I didn't get to work on the fender badges much last week. I will back stateside late Friday and I will post some progress images this weekend.

PM Sent

I really like those badges in my last post, I was actually considering "LQ1" as well. If you could just pm me with about how much they would be. Also if you could get them chromed, how much that would be.

Thanks

still watching these, although i am thinking the dean style might look great on the font grill and rear tail light panel. (if one could find a way to mount them), keep us posted Will, nice work.
al

Hi all, it has been a while since I posted on this so I thought is was time for an update.

I have been filling in my lecture schedule covering dates for a colleague that has been extremely ill, unfortunately she will likely not survive her illness. Being a recent cancer survivor myself, I know her family is going through a lot so I have been lending a hand where I can. A great attitude will go a long way but I am afraid things have progressed beyond that point. Needless to say, my focus has been elsewhere as of late.

Add to that that I completely trashed my passenger door and have had to deal with it on my limited home time and I have extended out my projects by several weeks. I have a major presentation I have to prepare for next Wed up in Hibbing, MN so I won't have any updates until after that.

Let me make a few other comments, although I know it won't sit well with a some of you, facts are facts. I am a special effect photographer and graphics software trainer by trade. I also own and run a photography/design studio and have done so for 25 years. Cars are a passion and hobby, not a living for me. That said the following must be put out in the open......

I know that many Fiero owners a passionate and detail oriented and some are notoriously cheap. I am okay with either type but here is where I have a problem:

The OMAX water jet is a $250K machine, cutting time is about $150 an hour and a fender badge takes about 5 minutes to cut ($150/12 = $12.50 ea.)
.030 Stainless steel is not cheap and isn't normally available in anything smaller than 4' x 4' sheets which cost me about $350 (delivered). Out of that sheet I can cut dozens of fender badges but that is money tied up in stock for something that may sit on the shelf for months. Further SS leaves a burr on the edge so after the cutting someone has to take the time (and $$$) to deburr the piece. If I buy small pieces of stainless the cost per sq./ft goes up dramatically so lets assume material cost work out to about $4 pair.

For the nose badge I am using brass for the relief cutting and machining needed and to give the end user something to be able to drill and tap for a mounting bracket. Soft brass cuts and machines very easily but is extremely expensive. A 4" x 18" x .25" piece cost me $52 (delivered) from which I can cut 9 pieces ($52/9 = $5.78) but the detailed cutting takes 8-9 minutes which means the cutting time costs me $20 (60min / 8 = 7.5 pieces per hour, $150/7.5 = $20). That is for the raw blank posted above.

The time to design, refine that design and time to program the water jet all cost $$$. Some of you would like to have your own designs made but frankly some (nearly all) of the artwork sent to me is so bad (or on the other hand of such extremely high quality in a few cases) that it has to be completely reworked to be usable (or is far too detailed to be usable) with the water jet. Someone has to rework it and that takes $$$. We aren't making 300,000 of these pieces here, nor even 100's they are one at a time, custom pieces. So the cost of set up can be very high per piece.

Then there are the custom material demands. You want mild steel, brass, aluminum, stainless steel, plastic, unobtainium (okay I just made that last one up) no problem. But again it's back to the raw material issue, most stock is 4' x 4' sheets, metal by the foot is exponentially more expensive.

Now we have to polish, plate or finish the piece. For the fender badges, they can be deburred but the finish work is something I don't do. I design, cut and ship. I can do finish work but obviously (or at least it should be obvious to you) the chrome work is not what I do. You probably have a better (or cheaper) source for that kind of work, but if you don't, someone has to prep, pick-up and deliver the piece. Example: Curly has some of the most amazing pieces of chrome work done I have ever seen, but ask him what it costs him to prep them, take them down to the chrome shop and go back and pick them up. Heck I'd bet the prep, shipping and delivery is more that the actual plating costs in a lot of cases. Curly's work is art, beautiful stuff, you want perfect, it's gonna cost $$$. His work is what I aspire to. Dean's work as well. That is why I wanted to do a custom badge/logo for his masterpiece.

Then there is the time frame. You want it now: well if you want someone to drop everything and work on your one piece and give it their undivided attention. No problem. That is going to cost $$$ because the designer, cutter, finisher, plater and shippers don't work for free. If however, you can be patient and let it get done when things are a little slower (I am talking in a just few days not months here) then things can be discounted because some of this is just for fun, not to make a living.

Stainless steel fender badges like Dean's are $45 a pair, raw, un-polished, and unplated. Delivered in the US. ($25 programming and cutting, $4 materials, $5 shipping = $34 in hard costs + a few $ for my time and effort) Mild steel might save you $2. If you want to change the text from GT to something else add $5/pair

Although the Hybrid nose badge could be cast in brass instead of cut or machined the time and cost of the mold and the volume needed to get the cost down isn't worth the investment for the few people who have shown interest. The raw un-polished, unshaped, unplated pieces like in the picture above are $45 delivered in the US ($20 programming and cutting, $5.78 materials, $5 shipping = $30.78 in hard costs + a few $ for my time and effort) Aluminum might save you $2.

This is about as rough an estimate as I can give you for now

I don't mean to sound grouchy either, I just want to make it clear that this stuff ain't cheap and I am certainly not making a living from it, heck I am barely charging for my time. I am doing it because so many have shared your talent with me and others that I have decided to do the same. You have inspired and encouraged my work, now I want to do the same. (The designer part of me wants just a little something for the effort though )

Pax,

Will

P.S. for those that don't speak Latin, Pax is Latin for "Peace"

P.S.P.S. If any of you have PM'd me and I didn't reply, please send me another one. I managed to delete near all of them (how I don't know but they are gone.) and I don't know who I owe replies to.

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 08-07-2009).]

I'd like to be the first to say thank you for your post and explanation of what is involved with these pieces.

It can be very difficult to see what goes into a final product, tooling, etc. Unless you've actually tried to do similar work you won't have a clue what is involved. Being in business and a price sensitive market, people don't realize that the cost of an item is more than just the materials involved. There's labor, waste, r&d, equipment, etc.

I know for a fact that I've looked at a few items for my project, mainly the camaro style rear lip and the tail light panels. My original thought, in looking at the prices, was that they seemed steep. Then I started looking at the amount of time required to R&D the final product, including mistakes, tools, etc. In the end its cheaper to buy them from the vendors.

You have some great ideas and, from your pictures, a quality product. People tend to forget about fixed costs that need to be divided over the number of products sold to recoup the funds. Any custom work needs to be considered in the same line.

If you like the product, great. If the price is too much, go online and find a factory emblem for less. Or buidl your own.

I had an interesting meeting with a foundry owner this weekend and may have found a source for a cast nose badge of the "Hybrid" style design. I will post a picture of the prototype later this week.

\/\/

I think it needs bigger wings and a longer tail i think there is more potential i am no artist but i just prefer more traditional look.

Will:

Thanks for the post outlining the work and material costs. It's good to see how much investment is involved in producing quality low volume items such as custom Fiero badges. Keep up the good work!

Nolan

PS - Pax tecum

quote Originally posted by whodeanie: Dean Style! LMAO! Will I just got them and they look great. I think they are plenty thick enough. Nice Job!

I WANT I WANT !!!!! Still need to read topic on how much they will cost

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 10-26-2009).]

Great breakdown on the logistics in making these.

I think the price is moooore than reasonable, in fact rather cheap to me for all the effort involved.

You are right most fiero owners are cheap.

Like they say if you think the price is too steep,..make it yourself !

Great product, great price.

[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 10-26-2009).]

Thanks Tony I don't believe in cutting corners. I know my method isn't for everyone but I don't do cheap because my time is worth more than any money I might save trying to find ways to do things cheaper.

I should have a sample of this new casting in the next few days. Between that and the trunk seal project, I have had my hands quite full lately

Hey I'm in on a nose badge. Either the original "dean" or the GTP style. Your price is great and I would love to do something different with my new front end. I am recieving an Insurance check for a few grand so cost is not a problem. I had a person back into me 2 weeks ago and ruin my hood and front clip. The emblem is garbage now.

So let's move on to the "new" and let me know when to place an order.

For those of you familiar with the plaque I had made for Tyler's Toy, the fellow I had cast that piece is working on a nose badge for me. I should have something to pull a casting mold off of in the next few weeks. I will keep you posted.

\/\/

Will can you bring some samples with you to Daytona ?

Tony,

I will be bringing samples of both nose and fender badges as well as a couple of new product ideas.

\/\/

Will,
is there a way to attach a couple threaded studs on the back for mounting them on say the custom rear light panel and front grill (also custom)?
also i'll be watching for the casting thing you were working on.
al

[This message has been edited by ace5514 (edited 01-17-2010).]

I like the Dean style.

***** UPDATE *****

I just got off the phone with my foundry and they have pulled both positive and negative molds of the nose badge for me. My intent is to cast in both resin (to be chrome plated) and brass (to be polished). I should have the molds in hand within the week and will post pictures when I have them.

The nose badge is the "Hybrid Wings" version on the right


Hybrid Wings

I should have examples at the Daytona show at a fraction of the first attempts price.

\/\/

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 02-22-2010).]

Will, how large are the fender shields? Thanks.

Rob,

Top to bottom they are 4". Any smaller and the water jet doesn't have a small enough orifice to be able to cut the inner curves. I have a new nozzle (smaller) that we are trying this weekend to see if it will work. I will let you know.

I don't know if I can fit a 4" on my lower fenders. I'll have to have a look today...I'm re-styling my wide rockers.

Rob,

I assume you mean the Prancing Pegasus badge? I haven't actually cut any of them yet. I will try cutting a 3" but I may have to thicken up the lines a little as the detail will be far too small for the water jet.

Will

Or, the other one but without the GTP text.

I was able to get mine painted and on the car so I will try to get some pic's of them today and get them posted in the morning.
D.

quote Originally posted by Amida: Or, the other one but without the GTP text.

Rob,

Check your email. I sent you a mock up drawing

Will

quote Originally posted by infinitewill: Rob, Check your email. I sent you a mock up drawing Will

Thanks for sending the pdf. I taped a printout to my fender, I think the 3" would be perfect. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Amida (edited 03-09-2010).]

here you go Will
D.

quote Originally posted by whodeanie: here you go Will D.

Freakin' Sa-weet! D,

bump and sent you a PM.

Just my 2 cents, have you tried a laser? Cutting time about 80 secs and $120.00 per hour. Can be done in stainless, aluminum, brass, and mild steel (if you want to be really cheap). I've done my stuff in 18 ga 16 ga and 14 ga. there would be a little more clean up, but a used 120 grit on a bench belt sander works great followed by a buff with polishing compound.


Rich

I had this in my Favourites and hadn't checked it in a while. I really like the Dean style GT ones on the first post, any chance of you doing one up for me, for a nose badge?

Brad

I see this is an old thread.... is nayone still playing with metal badges? PM me please.

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Julian - MERA #8071

HI all

These fender designs, like the other new one, are far more evoking of wonder, the passion we have in these cars then Hulki's.... Don't actually know if he did it, or who did, jsut using Hulki cuz he is the one I heard responsible for the Fiero... Will's desgin speaks far more then just the animal that someone placed to represent this car... Pegasus wasn't just a flying horse, how many people know here that he also carried Zues' lightning bolts to the earth some stories say, and it was this particualr duty that they also said is how he was made a constellation.... Pegasus was also a devoted protector of the Nine Muses, that was his main duty, presented to them by Athena.... Of mythology, Pegasus is one of my top 3 favorites.. Loved him when I first saw an image and the name of him... Long before I found Fiero's... One could say I was destined maybe, wether it was fate or luck, doesn't matter that much to me, I think of it to myself every so often, but no where near as much as making a Fiero mine. Through customizing... Can't afford to do so now, but am working right now actually to getting a job where I would make more money so I can....

Thanx all,

Merry Chistmas...

Ear-ick...