OK, so I dropped off my 88 GT at TEXASGT's shop today. Here's what's being done....

Currently the car has the stock 2.8 with an auto transmission. They are swapping in a 3800 S/C and a few go fast mods, like a 3.4 pulley, headers, cold air intake, etc. I was going to have them convert it to a manual (Getrag), but I decided to wait on that to see if someone gets the F40 going for 3800's. They will however be swapping the stock slushbox out and putting in the 4T65e-HD that matches up with the engine. After they're done with the physical labor, they'll be dyno-tuning it to make sure I can squeak out every ounce of hp I can from it. We're hoping it'll be in the 300 - 325 hp range (I'll post what the dyno says).

I'll be posting pics of the build as we go, as I'm sure TEXASGT will post as well giving the forum updates. He's giving members from PFF a discount on service and he's pretty serious about making his shop a place where people can have some wicked stuff done to their cars. I'll be posting some "before" pics in a bit.

I'll be watching this thread for sure.

Did you think about putting in a cam? That's what really wakes these engines up. What year W-Body did the 3800SC come out of? If it's a '97-'03, you can see some pretty good gains by having the supercharger housing ported.

Thought about the cam, but decided against it for now. It will boost HP but reduce MPG. I'm looking at doing rockers instead. HP and MPG boost, so hopefully it will be a better choice since this is my DD. I'm going to ask the guys at Split Second to see what they think. They haven't given me the info on the motor yet, but I do know the one they have is a L67, so it should be 99-03 as far as I know. When it comes to mechanical areas on cars I have a beginner's level of knowledge, so I have to rely on them to help me make the right choices.

I'm sure they'll treat you right. As for the rockers, that's a very good choice. Make sure you upgrade your valve springs while you're at it.

When they install your headers, are they going to cut your trunk? Also, they should keep a jig around for the exhaust setup they make for your car and the headers they use. I wouldn't mind being able to buy a complete exhaust setup for my swap when the time comes.

Hey GS..

I hear you got some motor problems. Give me a ring and lets get you sorted out.

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-19-2009).]

quote Originally posted by GS Jon: I'm sure they'll treat you right. As for the rockers, that's a very good choice. Make sure you upgrade your valve springs while you're at it. When they install your headers, are they going to cut your trunk? Also, they should keep a jig around for the exhaust setup they make for your car and the headers they use. I wouldn't mind being able to buy a complete exhaust setup for my swap when the time comes.

I'm going to try to keep the trunk as-is, but we'll see what has to happen. We talked about porting the SC but if we do that the mpg will take a serious hit. Since I'm going to be driving this car pretty much daily, and not racing it on the track, I'll need to preserve my mileage as much as I can. Maybe down the road, when I am using something else for a DD.

Since you're concerned about MPG, please ensure you're retaining the boost bypass valve and ensure it's operational. Also, retain your EGR. I don't think the supercharger housing being ported would impact MPG much, if at all.

Tuning and keeping your foot out of the happy pedal will do wonders for your mileage as well.

OK here are some pictures. We got started a day late. Weather and work load held us up. I'll add captions later on as we are really busy today. The fourth picture is Scott my partner and builder. If he can't build it, boost it or juice it, then it cannot be done. Notice that Tattoo! He loves NOS LOL!!! The last picture is Danny our Dyno Tuner and Electronics wizard. He does all the in house programming and chip upgrades and burning. He does everything from Honda to Harley.

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-23-2009).]

In the last pic it kinda looks like Danny's thinking "Awww, how CUTE!" LOL.

What's being done to the car again?

It's in the first post, holmes.

Danny is a very smart person when it comes to tuning and electronics. He has pulled some numbers out of cars when "other" shops couldn't. He is a blessing and a great builder. I couldn't ask for a better team.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: What's being done to the car again?

3800 SC Swap.

*Ported supercharger (decided to go for it anyway)
*3.4 pulley (CAI, Colder Tstat, etc to allow for it)
*ZZP Rockers
*ZZP Headers
*Dyno tune using HP Tuning
*4T65e-HD Transmission

Don't think I forgot anything, but I may have. Shooting for 300+ HP and still decent mileage (Daily Driver). Then it's on to cosmetics after this is all done.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 12-22-2009).]

BTW, just a pointer about the guy (and others I've seen do this) that is sitting in / on the trunk. That's not something I recommend. Somebody that is even 100LBS can crack the fastback clip section. Its not made to sit on. It can even crack the inner taillights underneath. It may not crack the first or 2nd time, but it will crack and those people will be suprised. It doesn't look professional either...

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fierogt28

88 GT, loaded, 5-speed

quote Originally posted by fierogt28: Somebody that is even 100LBS can crack the fastback clip section.

I don't believe that for a second. Sorry I just don't! If the car was only designed in that area to hold no more than 100 pounds I'm surprised any fastback doesn't stress crack over ever part of it and fall apart. The stress alone from driving would destroy it if that were true. Now I agree my employee should not be sitting there and even if it was only for a few seconds but I dont think that statement is true or proven. Bad danny, no taco for you!

BTW... Danny is 5'2 and 98 pounds so he is safe

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-23-2009).]

guy is tiny!!!
anyways. i wouldnt care to much if they sit in the trunk of my car. tho if they break anything. they will be replacing/fixing it :P
as long as there not having a beer and some pizza while sitting. thennn i would be alittle peeved.
as short as he is. im sure he needs to sit in the trunk to work on this car! its hard enough to work on it and having to leave over so much and reach and bend over and such.

i cant wait to see more photos! keep em coming!

I try to learn something new every day. For example, what is the benefit of removing the plenum/disassembling the plenum before pulling the engine when swapping from a 2.8 to 3800?

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: I try to learn something new every day. For example, what is the benefit of removing the plenum/disassembling the plenum before pulling the engine when swapping from a 2.8 to 3800?

LOL , it's their 1st time.

quote Originally posted by revin: LOL , it's their 1st time.

Wow LMAO ok... No its not our first motor swap. We have done a number of swaps and builds much more complex than a 3.8SC, like the 1JZ into a Sc300 or a 2JZ into a 240sx but I am sure they are cakewalk for some of you

We have a customer that wants a LS1 into a RX8. Cost alone is holding him up on it.

Revin since you are the the master swapper, maybe you could come lend a hand with this 3.6 VVT Fiero swap were getting into these days. I'll even put your car on the Dyno to see what your bad boy is putting to the ground. we can even video it for youtube and title it as "Fiero Breaks Dyno" LOL no seriously come on up for a visit and hang with us for the day. We got our tuner here and he can get some more power out of your car.

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-23-2009).]

Just a pointer...no flaming here.
If you unplug the C500, C203, and ecm plugs, you can remove the complete drivetrain in about an hour. This allows you to remove the Fiero harness on the "bench". There is a plug that allows you to unplug the injector section of the harness and you won't need that section in your swap. I use very little of the Fiero harness and repin the C500, C203 and pcm connectors rather than solder.
Also, with the mods you are running, I would strongly suggest running a dogbone with your setup.
Dave

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1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT 3800s/c, 1986 SE with a VW VR6, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com
www.hausofguru.com

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Just a pointer...no flaming here. If you unplug the C500, C203, and ecm plugs, you can remove the complete drivetrain in about an hour. This allows you to remove the Fiero harness on the "bench". There is a plug that allows you to unplug the injector section of the harness and you won't need that section in your swap. I use very little of the Fiero harness and repin the C500, C203 and pcm connectors rather than solder. Also, with the mods you are running, I would strongly suggest running a dogbone with your setup. Dave

No flame taken. We are installing a dogbone set up as well. Its easy to pick apart ones work from a picture but not so easy when you are sitting in front of it. I can't tell you how bad the wiring harness is on this car. If a picture speaks a 1000 words then hands on must speak 2 billion words. If the owner wants to post more pictures then all the power to him. I from this point will only update this when the project is done.

BTW we are not a fly by night shop. We urge you to come by and take a look. We do big builds, little builds, turbo, superchargers and motor swaps for days. I guess I need to post up some cars from the shop in my thread.

Merry Christmas.

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-23-2009).]

quote Originally posted by TEXASGT: No flame taken. We are installing a dogbone set up as well. Its easy to pick apart ones work from a picture but not so easy when you are sitting in front of it. I can't tell you how bad the wiring harness is on this car. If a picture speaks a 1000 words then hands on must speak 2 billion words. If the owner wants to post more pictures then all the power to him. I from this point will only update this when the project is done. BTW we are not a fly by night shop. We urge you to come by and take a look. We do big builds, little builds, turbo, superchargers and motor swaps for days. I guess I need to post up some cars from the shop in my thread. Merry Christmas.

I'll be stopping by and taking some pics tomorrow if any progress has been made since yesterday (otherwise I'll wait until after the fat man in the red suit comes by). I'll make sure pics are plentiful. I hope everyone has a great holiday, and for those up north, I don't envy you right now. It took me almost 35 years to get away from the snow, and I'm definitely not going back.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: I try to learn something new every day. For example, what is the benefit of removing the plenum/disassembling the plenum before pulling the engine when swapping from a 2.8 to 3800?

This is why I asked what was being done to the car. I saw that it was getting a 3800 swap but could not figure out why the plenum was being taken off for the swap. There is no reason you will need that part of the harness for the 3800 swap so that was really a waste of time. You will need the C-500/203 and maybe a few other parts from the harness.

I am just going to chalk it up as first time swappers that have not done their homework and have much to learn. But everyone makes mistakes and as long as you learn from it then it is all good.


I second not sitting on the FB clip as being shown. That area is thin and flexes with very little weight being put on it. This could cause the tail lights to crack or other parts to become damaged.

Good luck with the swap and I hope all turns out well.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Good luck with the swap and I hope all turns out well.

Well Steven since you sent me such a not so nice PM for the holidays, let me fill in on the blanks for you since you are going to keep breaking my balls. The owner Mike should have stated right off the bat that he wanted to donate the 2.8 coming out of his Fiero to a member here that is having really bad luck with his V-6 and didn't have a lot of money. The 2.8 only has 80K miles on it. He wanted to make it a suprize for him. I thought that was an awesome idea and wanted to help out as well. I gave the intake to the powder coater to refinish at my Expense and he would be finishing it with a candy red almost like factory during the holiday... The powder coater was waiting at the shop so we took the intake off then before we dropped the motor... Hence the reason for the missing intake. When I get it back this weekend the powder coating would be finished. Then I will put the 2.8 back together with powder coated intake and valve covers, new gaskets, water pump and a few other goodies for the member in need of the good motor... Sorry Mike if I was forced to let the cat out of the bag.

Merry Christmas Steve. The Offer for IFO still stands... I really hope you can make it.

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-24-2009).]

No worries. I'm enjoying the process regardless of how it comes out. Not that it's anything compared to Fiero X's car, but let me know if you want mine at the IFO (that is if it's ready with all the stuff I keep adding). I'll get an update from you tomorrow and come by for pictures if anything is happening.

To everyone else, everyone starts somewhere. Someone had to be Archie's first guinea pig, as well as Loyde's, WCF's, and everyone else's. If anyone tries the 3.6 vvt, they will be amateurs at it, no matter what they have done in the past. There are also members on here claiming some of the "established shops" didn't do what they were supposed to and that they ripped people off. I'm willing to trust these guys, and I believe they will take care of whatever comes up. Making suggestions like Dave (BMWGURU) did is one thing, making negative comments is another. Please don't dump in this thread if that's the only reason you're looking to post in it. Thanks and have a great holiday weekend!

quote Originally posted by TEXASGT: BTW we are not a fly by night shop. We urge you to come by and take a look. We do big builds, little builds, turbo, superchargers and motor swaps for days. I guess I need to post up some cars from the shop in my thread.

I didn't mean for you to think that I was insinuating that you are running a fly by night business. I'm not here to trash your build. From what I can tell, you have put together some real nice projects. My Fiero busiess is really not a business. I own a German only repair shop, but started doing the Fiero swaps to help offset my taxes and have a little more cash for my toys. My team is very talented, but as I remind them every other day, I could fire them all and stilll make a decent living by myself. There isn't one job that comes in that I can't personally handle.
I honestly enjoy doing the Fiero swaps more than the BMWs, but I don't think I could make a living doing only Fiero swaps.....or if I could, I know in my head that I could make so much more by sticking with the German cars.(I make equal money doing 3 brake jobs on a BMW or doing a Fiero swap, but I enjoy the Fieros more). I have that "driven" personality that I can't let up.
Dave

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: I didn't mean for you to think that I was insinuating that you are running a fly by night business. I'm not here to trash your build. From what I can tell, you have put together some real nice projects.

Dave I thought nothing of the sort. We do a ton of JDM work and domestic upgrades. This isn't a big job for us. We are getting in another fiero next week for a 3.8SC swap.

Its all good in my hood

quote Originally posted by TEXASGT: Dave I thought nothing of the sort. We do a ton of JDM work and domestic upgrades. This isn't a big job for us. We are getting in another fiero next week for a 3.8SC swap. Its all good in my hood

BUT BUT BUT.... Mine isn't done yet. You better tell that other Fieroist they have to wait their turn. Oh, and my car better be nicer. Don't do as nice of a job on theirs as you do on mine k?

Sorry I didn't make it out there yesterday. Family time and all that. Merry Christmas guys.

I went by the shop today and grabbed some pics. FIrst off, here is the car as it was (it's the previous owner's pic but it's better than the ones I had)



Here's the car the day I dropped it off... Look how happy it is, waiting to get the engine it deserves...



Buh-Bye!

The M90 is being completely rebuilt. Painted to owners choice of color. New internals will be installed, Gm supercharger oil then on to the 3.2 pulley install. We have decided to go with a INTENSE pulley.

http://intense-racing.com/M...xx0&Category_Code=BE

Here is the M90 after being stripped of everything including internals and just coming out of the bead-blaster.



Out of the oven...

[This message has been edited by TEXASGT (edited 12-29-2009).]

Look at the progress. Nice work so far fellas!

Well, the guys at Split Second have been at the mercy of the shipping gods. The holidays are really not a good time to try to get parts apparently. The goodies from ZZP still haven't arrived (to be honest from what the guys have told me I wouldn't recommend ordering anything from ZZP right now). By comparison, Thrasher has been a great company to deal with. So here is what we're doing...

3800 II SC with all new gaskets and seals
Ported Supercharger and Lower Intake
Thrasher 3.2 Pulley
ZZP 1.9 rockers
ZZP headers
ZZP fuel logs
N* TB
CAI with bypass valve
Custom Exhaust
Colder Tstat, plugs, and wires
New timing belt and water pump
4T65e HD transmission
Upgraded Suspension - The guys actually have an announcement I believe about 88 suspension parts they might be putting on here in the near future.

So, I will put up some new pictures in the next week or so after we get some more parts in. Until this is done, it's driving the mini van for me

Are you upgrading from the stock valvesprings? Be sure to replace the dampener along with the timing chain when it's swapped out (unless you're going with a double roller, in which case you'll forgo the dampener completely).

quote Originally posted by GS Jon: Are you upgrading from the stock valvesprings? Be sure to replace the dampener along with the timing chain when it's swapped out (unless you're going with a double roller, in which case you'll forgo the dampener completely).

According to ZZP's website, the rockers are made for using with stock springs, pushrods, lifters, etc. Springs are recommended for shiftpoints higher than 6,000 rpms. I'm not really going to be seriously racing this car, so I don't see the need. I'm not sure about the dampener question, that's something the guys would know better than I would.

Not sure how much they'll be posting on here since the feud has broken out. I don't know who started it, and honestly I don't care. It seems every time someone starts a build thread of any kind on here, people jump in just to give people crap. I've seen where several people abandoned their threads until the car was finished because they got tired of the BS. Kind of sad to see that behavior in the same forum that Tyler's project evolved in.

Agreed on the forum feuds.

As for the springs, I tend to overbuild. The dampener is a cheap part and should be replaced with the timing chain.

quote Originally posted by GS Jon: Are you upgrading from the stock valvesprings? Be sure to replace the dampener along with the timing chain when it's swapped out (unless you're going with a double roller, in which case you'll forgo the dampener completely).

X2 on upgrading the springs when running the 1.9s rockers. I would at least bump up to 90# LS1 springs to keep away from any valve float that might occur at higher shift points. Are they re-worked stock rockers(best type IMO) or roller tips? I ran re-worked 1.9s on my first swap with stock springs with no issues but it was a 97 motor also. With all that is going into the motor parts wise might as well grab a set of springs to be on the safe side.
I ordered from ZZP twice in the last few weeks and both orders where here in 2-4 days.