I have been informed that the Solstice community is to be included with the Fiero community at Daytona 2011 and I would like your thoughts on the matter.

Having had a phone conversation with Frank Martin on this subject, Frank has suggested that I start a thread and get the general concensus from the Fiero Community as to the Solstice particpation.

The subjects are as follows...

Should the Solstice community be included (parking wise) in with the Fiero's?
Should the Solstice community be judged with/against the Fiero's for awards?
Should the Solstice be pictured on Plaques and Shirts with the Fiero's?
Should the Solstice be included for the "On Track" pictures with the Fiero?

Being a contributing Vendor for Daytona for the past 2 years, my thoughts are as follows...

I do not mind if the Solstice community parks with the Fiero community but I would ask that the 2 communities be parked divided and not intermingled. Meaning... Fiero's in seperate rows from Solstices.
I do not feel that the Solstice should be up for awards competing with/against the Fiero
I do not feel that the Solstice should be pictured with the Fiero on Plaques and Shirts.
Again, the Solstice is "Not" a Fiero and should be kept seperated from the Fiero "On Track" pictures.

I have no problem with the Solstice people comming to dinner, go carting or other activities but Daytona has always been a "Fiero" event and I feel it should remain a "Fiero" event. If the Solstice cummunity wants to compete for awards they should have their own judging and awards seperate from the Fiero community. If they want T-Shirts and Plaques, they should also be seperate.

I go to Daytona cause it is a "Fiero" specific event. If I want to compete with late model cars, I would park in the general population.

This is just my thoughts, what are yours?
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Click here for all your Fiberglass part needs

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 10-18-2010).]

I own both. I would park them together if I was attending. (I'm not)
They are both in the same group. small cars that lasted a short time. Both have a cult following.
I get the same looks in either one on the street.
They are cousins!

Maybe have them in rows backed up to each other?

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88 GT "The Stray" 4.9L
86 GT 2.8L 4 speed
07 Solstice GXP 2.0L turbo
08 GMC Sierra 3500 Duramax Dually.
05 Tahoe on 20's (Kid hauler)

Although I am not able to attend, I will agree with Jimmy 100%, they are Pontiacs / sportscars and should be welcomed but separate in their own group for parking awards pics etc. Im sure that they would enjoy the comradery (sp?) Having said that, mho probably doesnt matter since I am not able to attend.

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If I only had ONE more part it will be finished...... famous last words.....

I also own both cars.

When I show my Fiero I usually show the solstice next to it. The Solstice is not old enough to enter in some shows. They do show nice together and the Solstice will bring a lot of "new" folks over to look at and maybe “Discover” the Fiero for the first time. If I were attending I would like to show my two cars side by side. It’s easier for the owner to keep an eye on his/her property if they are parked close to each other.

However, awards and such should be appropriate for the setting. Sometimes I’m in a two seat category, other times I’m in a “1975” and newer category. This is really up to the folk’s setting up the event to decide on. If there are enough of both cars then have separate recognition for both. Life isn’t always fair I’ve been placed with two seat T-Birds & Corvettes. But life is always good – The Fiero always shows well and is fun to show.

The two cars are really more alike the not:
Both G.M. Pontiac Division & we all know Pontiac is now gone.
Both (obviously) a two seater sports car.
Both Five Year Runs; Fiero: 1984 to 1988 - Solstice: 2006 to 2010
Both under engineered at fist then killed it their prime.
Both had two basic body styles; Fiero: Notchback & Fastback - Solstice: Convertible & Coupe.
Both are fun to drive & both have a big following.

Just my 2 cents worth

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1986 Red s/e 2m6 5-sp, & 2006 Red Solstice 5-sp

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JimmyS:

I do not mind if the Solstice community parks with the Fiero community but I would ask that the 2 communities be parked divided and not intermingled. Meaning... Fiero's in seperate rows from Solstices.
I do not feel that the Solstice should be up for awards competing with/against the Fiero
I do not feel that the Solstice should be pictured with the Fiero on Plaques and Shirts.
Again, the Solstice is "Not" a Fiero and should be kept seperated from the Fiero "On Track" pictures.

I have no problem with the Solstice people comming to dinner, go carting or other activities but Daytona has always been a "Fiero" event and I feel it should remain a "Fiero" event. If the Solstice cummunity wants to compete for awards they should have their own judging and awards seperate from the Fiero community. If they want T-Shirts and Plaques, they should also be seperate. [end qoute]


As a new guy to this forum and someone who is trying to get his ride ready to go to this event for the first time. I would have to agree with JimmyS. One thing I would add to this would be if there is to be a Pontiac portion of this event then all is good.

edited to put in the end quote.
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Chuck
87 Fiero SE

[This message has been edited by kkavmann69 (edited 10-18-2010).]

I live too far away to attend Daytona, but i have mixed feelings on the judging together while i have no issues with the solstice it would be unfair to judge someones daily driver fiero at 22 + years of age against someones 6 year old daily driver. I wouldn't have an issues being parked next to a solstice either, and while i think keeping the two in separate rows is visually more consistent and appealing it should not be mandatory. The solstice shares many similarity with the fiero in its history and in its design. Think of it as a good will gesture.

[This message has been edited by Macs86GT (edited 10-18-2010).]

They look good together!

I agree with you JimmyS, since there are more alike then different they could be included in the event but at the same time, separate. I don't have a problem with Solstice's, besides the fact that I will never own one due to the fact that I can't fit in one at all, no chance.

NO

The entire Daytona Speedway infield is filled with cars on this weekend every year.
This includes a number of "corrals" for specific cars.
In the years I have attended The Daytona Fiero weekend and walked around the entire infield, I do not recall seeing any "corrals" with mixed cars, even if they are the same marque, (Chevrolet, Buick, Ford, etc.)
They are usually always dedicated to a specific car, (i.e. Monte Carlo)
While it has never been so titled, the Fiero "corral" is unique in that it has always occupied a larger, regular space at a remote end of the infield from the bulk of the event.

The first appearance of a Pontiac Solstice in the Fiero "corral" that I recall was when V8 Archie displayed one with a V8 swap a few years ago.
I believe he was simply advertising his services or products for this conversion in addition to his other Fiero related business.

I personally see no need to include the Solstice in the Fiero event, presumably on the rationale that it's also GM / Pontiac and also a 2 seater.
If that is the justification, then why stop there?
We can also include Buick Reattas, they're also discontinued GM cars and 2 seaters.
Then we can go ahead and include Corvettes, afterall they are also GM cars and are 2 seaters even if they aren't discontinued.

The appeal of the Fiero Weekend and the event at the Daytona track has always been because in an automotive world where the Fiero has received little respect, it has stood proudly, (and alone), in that vast sea of cars at Daytona every year.

Change is inevitable, but there's also a lot to be be said for tradition.
Why destroy that precious tradition now?

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In past years, Fieros were grouped by years, miles and by model. They were judged within their category. As participation dwindled, the number of groups diminished. I see no reason that the Solstice or even the Sky be included as another two seater that has been abandoned by GM and be judged against each other and not against a Fiero. A separate category for those cars with judging.

There probably be no more car track photos since some people did some "hot dogging" during last years photo event and Frank got reamed for that action and access for the track photo won't be allowed.

If those cars particiate, their images should be included on dash plaques, and separate awards.

It may be a new market for some new fiberglass components.

"it has stood proudly, (and alone), in that vast sea of cars at Daytona every year."


That was perfect!

I also go with what Jimmy said.
Separate rows for Fieros.
Separate rows for the Solstice.
Solstice judging.
Fiero judging.

As for "T" shirts and plaques---same as above.

Having said that, I think the addition of the Solstice would be great for getting more people into our little corner of the field.
Some PFF members have a Solstice and I would bet that some Solstice owners have a Fiero or had a Fiero.

Last year was my first year to attend Daytona, although I did not have my car there I really appreciated that the Fiero was in a section by itself. I will also be there in 2011 as both a vendor and have my car there (fingers crossed). I love cars, all cars but my passion now is the Fiero. I have to stick with JimmyS on this one. I like the Solstice but I don't think it should be included in the judging, plaques and graphics but don't mind them being adjacent to the Fiero line.

quote Originally posted by JimmyS: I have been informed that the Solstice community is to be included with the Fiero community at Daytona 2011 and I would like your thoughts on the matter.

I think this statement needs some clarification. Does it simply mean that Daytona wants to park the Solstice Community in the same area as the Fieros?

Even though it has been a few years since I have attended, I would have to guess that the Fiero Community is still the one doing all of the event planning aside from Daytona. So, why change that. Stake our claim on the land.

Let the Solstice group do their own thing.

Should the Solstice community be included (parking wise) in with the Fiero's? -That's ok until we start to get more Soltices and then they would want to take over and push us out. May not happen but just a possibility. Not sure if Frank has control of that. But most probably we should always have plenty of space for both at the same spot.

Should the Solstice community be judged with/against the Fiero's for awards? -No.

Should the Solstice be pictured on Plaques and Shirts with the Fiero's? - Why? No.

Should the Solstice be included for the "On Track" pictures with the Fiero? -Soltice and Sky yes. Soltice/Sky and Fiero no.

You can count us in again this year. We would not miss it ever. Yes we love to see what people have done with their Fieros but it is always more about meeting up with old friends that we have met along the way.

As for the Solice group, we do have major sponsors who make a living serving both communities, therefore I think the vendors should be allowed to intermingle in vendor row. As for the line up of the cars, I think it should be kept separate, still within the Fiero community area but separate to the Fieros.

As for the Tee Shirts, I think all Fiero is the way to go, not Solices. Maybe after this year, we could determine how many Solices come to the event and make an intelligent decision then.

Thanks
Ron & Pat

quote Originally posted by Fiero38SC: I think this statement needs some clarification. Does it simply mean that Daytona wants to park the Solstice Community in the same area as the Fieros?

This has nothing to do with the Speedway wanting to park the Solstice community with us.

In the daytona thread... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/082957.html Frank Martin (Dragon) posted this picture...


When I seen the picture, I asked why there was a Solstice in that picture. The reply I got was...

quote Originally posted by 87GT2M6: Jimmy as you can remember this year we had I believe two Solstices at the show and Frank wants to add them to the group. This coming year the Solstice folk will be attending the event so expect more than two. I hope more Fieros show up for next years show than we had this year.

I went on to express my thoughts and then Frank called me. Now this thread was born.

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 10-19-2010).]

And so it begins...

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: And so it begins...

That is the nice thing about a open forum

Great spot for feedback for one and all

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87 GT
3800 s/c - lowered with Held Motorsports suspension - Suicide Doors by Archie
Custom Paint
Fun To Drive Daily Driver

87 Convertible
Sunshine Car

You might be able to find honest judges ( ), but seriously who aren't prejudice toward one or the other make of car. IMHO the cars are only "alike" in that the brand name is PONTIAC, short production span, and they're two seaters.

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"Friends don't let their friends drive stock."

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 10-19-2010).]

I vote for no mixing. I don't want a picture of a Solstice on my shirt, let's keep our group together.
JMO
Have a Great Day
Gary

quote Originally posted by LT188GT: I also go with what Jimmy said. Separate rows for Fieros. Separate rows for the Solstice. Solstice judging. Fiero judging. As for "T" shirts and plaques---same as above. Having said that, I think the addition of the Solstice would be great for getting more people into our little corner of the field. Some PFF members have a Solstice and I would bet that some Solstice owners have a Fiero or had a Fiero.

I agree,

Vince

[This message has been edited by Snapperhead (edited 10-19-2010).]

I will not be attending this year, but I have attended three years in the past, and even judged one year so I think I can express an opinion.

Daytona is a show within a show, and obviously there are all makes and models in the infield. Having said that the Fieros have always had the largest corral of cars, even among Corvettes and Mustangs.

But times are changing. The economy is rough and the Fiero numbers are dwindling. I can remember when 150 Fieros at Daytona was a low turnout. I imagine it's at about half that number now. I would rather have a show with 150 Fieros and Solstices than a show with 75 Fieros.

I wouldn't mind to see the Fieros combining with the Solstices and the Miatas for that matter.

1) parking - Yes - There should be some separation and not have them intermingled to being parked next to each other. A separate row would suffice.

2) Judging - No, separate judging. It would be ridiculous to judge a 23 year old car against a new one.

3) Plaques/Tshirt - Yes - I think it would be more inclusive, and less expensive to have one T-shirt/award

4) Pictures - Yes - Same as parking, give some separation but all can be in the same group shot.

The Pontiac Solstice is a really nice car! It has a great following, and I have nothing against them in any way. As a matter of fact, I would love to own one some day.

That said.

The Solstice should not be in any way a part of the Fiero parking area, judging, plaques, shirts in any way. The Miata is a 2-seater, the Delorian is a 2-seater, , the Fiat X1 is a Mid Engine car, The Transport was made by Pontiac, so sure there are all sorts of cars that are similar in one way or another. They are not Fiero's, and this has always been a Fiero event.

The illustration above with the Fiero's and the Solstice... I have to be honest. It's just wrong

I can actually hear the though process going on when that illustration was done ..... Ok, I own a Solstice, but this is a Fiero event, ao I certainly have to use Fiero's in the illustration.... Hmmmm I better put more Fiero's than the Solstice's..... Well. to make sure things go smoothly, I better make sure to put a Fiero up front, and the Solstice in the back.... There.... This is the first year we are thinking about doing this, so it's OK. Maybe next year I can include half Fiero's and half Fiero's on the shirt.

(Come on, be honest, I know a lot of you were thinking it hehehe)

This has been a long standing Fiero event, and sorry, but it is just an intrusion basically. I certainly am not going to try to get in with a Fierbird car show and judging, just because they are A) Both made by Pontiac, B) have a cult following, C) Both have pop-up head lights, and D) Because they look similar

I think it's great if Solstice owners want to show up to Daytona, and start their own section, awards, photo's and such. It will definitely make the show more diverse, and lots more cool cars to check out on top of it. I just feel they should be completely separate.

Again, I have NOTHING against the Solstice, or Solstice owners in ANY way what so ever.

This is just my 2 cents worth, and my personal opinion.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 10-19-2010).]

I've been to the Daytona 2 years ago and I own both a sexy solstice (Saturn Sky) and a Fiero.

I have to agree with some of you.

I believe they should park them next to each other but clearly seperating the solstice from the Fiero's. I don't like the idea of mixing them together. I think they should have seperate judging and awards, seperate photos and tshirts.

That's my 2 cents.

I attended last year for the first time and like the fact that the Fiero had its own thing going on. The trip to the track was strictly Fieros, and the pics we took out there were all Fiero.

I do not want to simply look like another two seater that Pontiac produced and compared to the Solstice.

So in that light I agree 100% with Jimmy. I do not want a Solstice on my t-shirt, or poster. I do not want ot be judged against them, and I do not want them in pictures that were previously strictly Fiero.

[This message has been edited by topcat (edited 10-19-2010).]

imho they should be separate...the solstice may be small and pontiac but its not rear engined. its a relative but not immediate family. now if the solstice displays and fiero displays were separate but put next to each other that would work...but should not intermingle.

quote Originally posted by LT188GT: I also go with what Jimmy said. Separate rows for Fieros. Separate rows for the Solstice. Solstice judging. Fiero judging. As for "T" shirts and plaques---same as above. Having said that, I think the addition of the Solstice would be great for getting more people into our little corner of the field. Some PFF members have a Solstice and I would bet that some Solstice owners have a Fiero or had a Fiero.

Ditto to the above, while I've never attended the Daytona Show, I think this should hold true for all shows. The Solstice should be in it's own class, just my opinion but there's too many years difference between the Fiero and Solstice (they are different animals, no matter how you slice it).

When I show my 88 GT locally, I don't even class it with other Fiero's due to the number of modifications on my car, I class it in "Modified Street Machine 1985-1995" I think it's a fair class where the car belongs, and it gives the Fiero's without extreme modifications a better chance at a Trophy, which they deserve. Modified Street Machine has some very stiff competition to compete against (at least in my area), so getting a Trophy in that class is a very rewarding feeling.

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Car History: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/025670.html

First, THANK YOU for asking! I know there are times while organizing an event that you have to say "this is the way it's going to be", and there are times when it's best to let the majority rule.

Second, I have been to 2 Daytona events, but I expect to be "out of Fieros" before the 2011 event. So accept or reject my input, as you wish.

Third, as the number of Fieros showing up at Daytona declines, these questions will be brought up more & more. The number of Solstice/Sky vehicles attending won't likely vary much anytime soon. So a "brotherhood" between the two does seem natural in a way. IF I were attending, I would think the fellowship would be more important than imposing a separation. But I'm not attending next year, so the bottom line for me, at this time, is...

I agree with this:

quote Originally posted by LT188GT: I also go with what Jimmy said. Separate rows for Fieros. Separate rows for the Solstice. Solstice judging. Fiero judging. As for "T" shirts and plaques---same as above.

I agree with most of what you all said except I'm going to maintain that the T-shirts/Plaques may have to be combined, if not this year then eventually.

The Fiero and the Solstice following is only going to get smaller over time. The two may have to combine at some point to stay viable.

I agree with Jimmy S.

quote Originally posted by Dragon: That is the nice thing about a open forum Great spot for feedback for one and all

Just remember that what you DO with that feedback has consequences Frank.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 10-19-2010).]

I was thinking at some point the Fiero and Solstice group would come together to put on a two seater car show. Although I would like to see that happen I do feel they should be two different events. If they just so happen to park next to each other at Daytona. Great, more cars to look at. This reminds me of the Orlando Wide Track Warrior Club wanting to take or move the Central Florida Fieros Club over to their meeting location. Sure we are all Pontiac owners and yes we may like some of their cars etc, but what makes the Central Florida Fiero Meetings great is the fact that it is a Fiero only event. I would hate to see the Solstice group over power the Fiero group to the point that no one wants to return because it is now a Solstice/Fiero show and not a Fiero event with Solstice parking on the other field. What makes Daytona great is the fact that Fiero owners have one event during the year that they can take their Fiero to Daytona park next to other Fiero owners and not feel like they are being judged by other car groups etc.

My vote is for Fiero Group to have their event. The Solstice Group have theirs and we part next to each other. We could be some kind of events together like Go-Karting Fiero owners vs. Solstice owners etc. Also, I do not want a shirt with the Solstice on it because I own a Fiero.

[This message has been edited by Proud88GT (edited 10-19-2010).]

I think they go great together...in my driveway


I also think the Sol looks great with the Sky


As for parking together at a show...NO!

Driveway...Yes!!!

quote Originally posted by randye: Just remember that what you DO with that feedback has consequences Frank.

?

I understand the natural comparison of the two cars and how they can be shown "together but separate". I have attended Daytona the last two years and plan to attend the next however many years this can possibly go on. The fact that the Fieros are off to one side of the track by themselves have always made it feel like it was an all Fiero show. To be honest I am a car guy born and raised and cars of all species interest me but I still have yet to walk around the show and look at the other cars. I have found that the Fieros and the people have more than kept my attention throughout the show.

As for the subjects at hand, I dont see how this could even be a concern. If we have a FIERO show then why would we even want to include ANY other car with us? I dont care if they even named the Solstice Fiero instead, there is too large a gap between years and they are completely different animals. Have you ever been to a show with a VW section? The owners of original beetles usually even segregate themselves from the newer beetles because they are only the same in name and shape. Could you imagine going to a show with a large Corvette section and asking them if you can include your Fiero and a couple others with them? They would laugh you away and tell you to get lost.

To answer the questions:
I dont care if Solstices park near Fieros similar to how it was last year, however any more than 5 or so should warrant them starting their own section. There is plenty of space at Daytona to have them park 5-10 or even more by themselves. If a Fiero owner has a Solstice and wants to park them together, knock yourself out.

I dont see how/why you could possibly judge Solstices with Fieros. Again, different animal.

I also dont think Solstices should be posted on plaques, shirts, or posters with Fieros. Same reason as before, one or two near us is okay but why ruin what we have going?

I definitely dont think Solstices should be on the track for pictures with Fieros (if we have that opportunity in the future). I think most people agree that seeing that many Fieros in one picture is stunning and including other models will bite deep into the significance of the photo shoot.

-Joe

Ok, what about Skys?

I agree with Clem, they can be in the same area but should have separate rows and be judged separately.
I wouldn't put them on the T-shirts or artwork, etc, unless the decision was made to make it the Florida Fiero/Solstice/Sky Weekend.

How about Corvairs? We can make it the corner for GM's misfit children.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 10-19-2010).]

I really have no place in this since I will probably never make one of these shows due to the fact that I am on the other side of the U.S but the Fiero has been around since 84' and that is why there is so much pride in keeping, restoring, and driving them. Why change things all of the sudden just because a new car comes out? Leave history alone and keep the cars separate like every show has been in the past.

Hello I was there when the Solstice first came out and it was wonderful to be with the Fieros. Its only natural that the two groups coexsist as the Fieros become fewer and new blood needs to come in. There will always be more Fieros showing as GM made more Fieros in the first year than all of the Solstice model run. Yes they should be in the same area parked in their own lines, judging and awards can be seperate again there isnt to many Sols. Shirts can be all Fiero though the shirt above really wasnt a deal breaker. The point is to enjoy your ride and be proud. Thanks Norm



Also Pontiac Enthusiast magizine showed this car and mentioned the Fiero corner at Daytona, so we can all get along.

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Norm Vandermee