I am working on my wife's 02 cavalier. It has the 2.2 ecotec with a 5 speed. Well anyway, once I had it on the ground, I discovered that it is a getrag tranny. The more I look at it, the more I think it may be a viable replacement tranny for worn out getrags and isuzus. I am hoping to have a few hours over the next few days to do some measuring and mock-up on my spare cradle. I looked in the archives, but didn't really find anything pertaining to this tranny, and was wondering if anyone else had studied it or not. Thanks for the imput

I also posted this in tech questions and discussions, as some only look there and some only look here

[This message has been edited by thumper_64735 (edited 11-14-2010).]

I believe that the bell housing for the Ecotec is different than the Duke/60 Degree V6. I have read that some folks are using the the Cavi trans guts swapped into the Fiero Case?

that would make since, as they are both getrag 5 speeds.

Depends, I am pretty sure if it is the 2200 motor than it should have the same bell housing, and that transmission is called the f35. It is the transmission Jncomutt has in his car behind his turbo 3800, making 550whp. I have read that if the clutch can hold it that transmission should be able to hold it. I picked one up a couple months ago to build a turbo 3400 to put on. It need different mounts, has a hydraulic throw out bearing, and very different cables, or a super fancy bracket to hold stock cables I can't get my head around...

I got mine pretty cheap, and they seam to be pretty plentiful, I hope to make up some extra sets of mounts to sell for people to swap this transmission in with.

Chris

The gear ratio of a transmission made for a high revving 4 might not be the best for a lower revving 6. You might find yourself taking off in 2nd gear and wishing for another gear past 5th on the highway.

Ugh. Don't cross post. I just replied to this in Tech, and then saw it here as well. Annoying.

quote Originally posted by eph_kay: Depends, I am pretty sure if it is the 2200 motor than it should have the same bell housing, and that transmission is called the f35. It is the transmission Jncomutt has in his car behind his turbo 3800, making 550whp. Chris

Chris, this is only 50% correct. It is not an F35.

quote Originally posted by thumper_64735: I am working on my wife's 02 cavalier. It has the 2.2 ecotec with a 5 speed.

Thumper, your wife's transmission is a Getrag F23; a direct bolt on to the 60degreeV6 bell housing. The F23 is significantly stronger than the Fiero Getrag transmission and uses far more refined syncros - even on the reverse gear.

Here's a video of the transmission being beaten on in Jncomutt's car:



He now uses an Automatic transmission in hopes of breaking drag records. John broke several sets of axle's, but the transmission is still in one piece, two years later. Here is a quote from John from another forum.

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt Well this was a first... I've been hearing this whining noise on decel lately and just figured it was because I ran my car low on trans fluid. Every time the axles would break, the trans would piss fluid out of the axle openings when removed. To solve this issue, I just simply filled the trans until it came out of there, then stopped. This way, when the axles broke, I wouldn't make a huge mess changing them... Smile Well the noise has been getting louder and louder, but I just drive the thing anyway. It was only on decel, so I would just clutch in and coast rather than engine brake. Well last night, while beating on the car hoping that the F23 Getrag would finally let go, I found out what the noise really was. I got in the throttle, 1st, 2nd 3rd and about halfway through 3rd, BOOM, clank clank clank. Finally, I thought, I showed that "weak pointless 4cyl" transmission what was up. I got out of the car, looked underneath, and everything was still whole. Nothing was dripping, there were no holes, there was no carnage. I thought maybe I just stripped out a gear, so I tried to start it... Whirrrrrr. Whirrrrr. Nothing but a free spinning starter. I get back under the car, reach my fingers through to the flywheel (safe, I know Smile) and I was able to EASILY and very freely spin the flywheel. There was zero drag on it and i kept hearing some clanking as it would spin. I had the car towed, for the first time, to the shop. Every other time it would break I would be able to fix it and limp it home, this time was not the case. I was hoping that would never get to this point, this is a driver, its supposed to be reliable, lol.. Smile I'll take some pics once I get a chance to pull the trans off. I'm guessing I'll find a bunch of bolts broken off in that crankshaft... Hopefully I can get the damn things out. I got a funny vid of the destruction.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6aDTTQs8sI

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 12-05-2010).]

Sorry you are right, it is the f23 and I couldn't remember if it was the 2200 or the 2400, I was pretty sure that it was the 2200 that the transmission I got came from... eh, reading too many different car niches screws with your acronyms and code names of parts

Chris

There diffrent bell housing's. the only getrag you can swap into it is out of the beretta with rodney's FWD conversion.

Getrags are on commodore and bmw and will not fit as far as i know.

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: There diffrent bell housing's. the only getrag you can swap into it is out of the beretta with rodney's FWD conversion.

With this thread by guru and Rodney's previous documentation you can use pretty much any FWD Muncie/Getrag 282, the only exclusions are Quad4/Ecotec bell housings. The Muncie/Getrag 284 from the W-body 3.4DOHC car is out as well without some more fancy fabrication.

Cavalier, Sunbird, Corsica, Beretta... standard or hydraulic throwout bearings...

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 11-15-2010).]

quote Originally posted by katatak: I have read that some folks are using the the Cavi trans guts swapped into the Fiero Case?

What you're referring to is the use of the Oldsmobile Quad Four HM282 gears inside of the Stock M282 housing. The F23 is a three shaft transmission, where as the stuff on the Fiero and Beretta are two shaft.

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 11-15-2010).]

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: There diffrent bell housing's. the only getrag you can swap into it is out of the beretta with rodney's FWD conversion.

I replied to this in tech as well, but I had to reply here to point out that PK is dead wrong yet again... please stop posting misinformation.

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: There diffrent bell housing's. the only getrag you can swap into it is out of the beretta with rodney's FWD conversion.

Hahahaha, I love this stuff. I had the transmission IN my car, took people for rides in it, and beat the living hell out of this transmissions whenever anyone asked, with no fear whatsoever. Even after that, I posted a few times and people like this keep telling me how it doesn't bolt up, or that its too weak to even bother. I got so fed up with people telling me it didn't work, even after it had been proven, that I gave up, and even edited most of my posts. Keep up the good work...

well, from the posts on here, I think I need to do some checking/measuring the next time I go up to the boneyard this weekend. Baring the wife doesn't have a long list of honeydo's) I'll post my findings here once I get solid info. From the sounds of it though, these trannys are alot stronger than the 20+ old fiero getrag, and much smoother shifting. I know of cobalts, and even older (99 up) cavs that have had turbos or superchargers installed that are making as much if not more HP than most of the swaps we are installing in our cars, and they are handling as much or close to the same torque. It just looks to me as if this would be a good swap for the stock tranny, being newer, as strong or stronger, and fairly easy to find in the bone yards around the country.

[This message has been edited by thumper_64735 (edited 11-16-2010).]

quote Originally posted by thumper_64735: well, from the posts on here, I think I need to do some checking/measuring the next time I go up to the boneyard this weekend.

One of the greatest abilities to have on this forum is the ability to sort through the completely useless/hearsay posts which drowns out any solid empirical data - See Rick's response and others. You've already been provided solid evidence from people who have already done the legwork to make this happen - supported with over two years of raw data. And there were others before us, who made the connections and engineered the solutions in other platforms.

It is extremely pretentious of you Rick to sharp shoot what I and Chris had to say. My guess is that you didn't even read past the title before rapping off a response - in fact, I'm sure that's exactly what happened.

They are quite common, easily had for $100 and under. Theres no real reason to do any measurements the trans works, fits and it is awesome people just never accepted it. When I did mine the hardest part was the linkage and by hard I mean a toddler could have handled it.

The only obstacle to overcome is the speed sensor, which is a magnetic hall effect sensor. The signal has to be converted into 4000ppm for the gauges, and also sometimes into a 2000ppm for the older PCM's such as the stock Fiero equipment.

That looks like it could be overcome with the module from Dakota Digital, and without alot of trouble, but not sure.

its also overcome by attaching it to a 3800. (the VSS issue)

[This message has been edited by FieroFiend (edited 11-16-2010).]

very true, and that is what I am thinking of bolting it up too

quote Originally posted by FieroFiend: its also overcome by attaching it to a 3800. (the VSS issue)

Not specifically to the 3800, but to the 97+ stock 3800 PCM which is already set up to handle the hall sensor. The output signal can be tuned directly from the PCM.

I can't believe I didn't know about this tranny before! I would have used it for several different swaps that I've done :/

Now you know.

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 11-17-2010).]

quote Originally posted by L67: Now you know.

It is a bolt up, but what about axles? Would you use the axles out of the 282 or from the f23?

Stock Fiero axles are direct fit.

Party..........Bonus

-T

Thread saved to favorites. The day i decide i want to do a 3800 or my dream 3.4 supercharged swap im going to be using one of these transmissions for sure. I know of about oh say maybe 400+ sitting in the local yard

Yep, just make sure its from a 2200 J body.

Hey guys,

I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. Are you guys talking about the 5-Speed Ecotec in the Cavalier 2.2, or are you talking about the 5-Speed available in the older Cavaliers from the late 80s with the 2200 L4?

Sorry if this wasn't totally obvious to me from the posts, but my brain is fried (it's Friday).


Thanks!!!

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

2000-2002

does anyone have the gearsets and final drive ratios?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...rag_F23_transmission

whats the deal with the shifter cables with the F23?

Use stock getrag cables.

i read this whole thread, but while looking on ebay of pictures of cavaliers from 2002 with the 2.2L and 5speed, the engines say ecotec.. but others say the ecotec bellhousing is different. did the 2002 cavy come with different motors?

This is interesting.
When you guys say bolt up you mean everything hooks up and lines up like it did on the Fiero's getrag that was replaced? Or are there headaches to deal with? Other costs besides the junkyard tranny cost? Clutch?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 06-15-2011).]

I believe you need to install the gearset that comes in the F23 into an older 2200 transmission bellhousing- then it bolts up. Not sure how the hydraulics work with that bellhousing, but the F23 has an internal slave, so you need to adapt/extend the hydraulic line appropriately.

So, PHYSICLY I could put a 2.2 eco from a cavalier, right into my 84, and it will bolt up to the trans?

------------------
84 2m4 72 whp 108 wtq, stock.