this will help with anyones tani selection
http://www.fierocountry.us/engine-trans.html

what cars did this f23 originally come in? are there different versions of this trans that are better than others?

The transmission you're after is behind the 2000-2002 Pontiac Sunfire or Chevy Cavalier - 2200 engine. Only the transmission behind the 2200 is the correct FWD bellhousing, the others use the ecotech pattern.

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 08-30-2011).]

not to add fuel to the fire but.... the strongest production getrag i know of is for porsche gt2 twin turbo cars. the gearbox is rated at 605ft lbs of torque and like gm will take lots more. we have them in our race cars making around 900ft lbs of torque without failures as of yet. ps... you could put one in a fiero provided you dont mind a longitudal mounting of your engine ... ill quit... lol.

thats what i like about that trans, there in the you pullits right now that means i can lickely get one for about 80. ive named my car the junk yard beast because 90% of my build will be from the junk yard. and it will be fun to explain why my beautifull car is named that way.

quote Originally posted by L67: No, I'm not. I am however all for spreading substantiated long term evidence. I spend enough time at the J-body forums to see how they beat the living hell out of their transmission, and we get to see the aftermath when they crack the cases and show us what the internals look like. There's more than just 1 500+ horsepower car driving around that's sporting an F23. Johnny's not the only one, but I have been in his car, and I have seen how completely uncarring he is for treating his F23 with respect. He feels like clutch dumping, he does it, laughs about it. He's been purposefully trying to break the transmission because he wanted to install the automatic. That means abuse. Lots... and LOTS of abuse. His transmission's fine. That's all the evidence I need. The 284 is a very strong transmission from what I hear, but its expensive - too expensive. You also can't fix it when it breaks. You can find F23's in the local yards all day. You can't find a member here with a V8 and an isuzu mounted behind it to dyno his car. This kind of person doesn't care about drag strips, or racing, or anything to do with going fast. I've seen what a V6 will do to an Isuzu. If a V8 isn't breaking one, its because its making less than 200 torque, or the owner drives it like a little old lady to church.

Wow.....The attitude around here has gotten larger........Tina had a V8 and an Isuzu didn't she????? (and I'm not suggesting that it lasted very long, just that she knew what she had and ran it) and the last time I checked the 3800 was not on the 60 degree forum (being a 90 degree motor and all....) Maybe its just the beer talking tonight, but, I think the forums could be better with more info, less "I'm the **** attitudes", but maybe it's just me.
peace out from Planet Budweiser.


-T

quote Originally posted by Puckhead: Wow.....The attitude around here has gotten larger........Tina had a V8 and an Isuzu didn't she????? (and I'm not suggesting that it lasted very long, just that she knew what she had and ran it) and the last time I checked the 3800 was not on the 60 degree forum (being a 90 degree motor and all....) Maybe its just the beer talking tonight, but, I think the forums could be better with more info, less "I'm the **** attitudes", but maybe it's just me. peace out from Planet Budweiser. -T

^--- Agreed.

Interesting..." discussion " though...as for us manual lovers finding a good transmission is a hard thing to do with the fiero fwd set up. I suppose the best thing to do would be to crunch the numbers to find out acceleration and to speed in / through each gear for each possible tranny.

quote Originally posted by Puckhead: Wow.....The attitude around here has gotten larger........Tina had a V8 and an Isuzu didn't she????? (and I'm not suggesting that it lasted very long, just that she knew what she had and ran it) and the last time I checked the 3800 was not on the 60 degree forum (being a 90 degree motor and all....) Maybe its just the beer talking tonight, but, I think the forums could be better with more info, less "I'm the **** attitudes", but maybe it's just me. peace out from Planet Budweiser. -T

That Isuzu got Tina's car on and off the trailer like a champ too! IDK why we are even having this discussion now, thanks for your very accurate and helpful insight into this thread.

quote I suppose the best thing to do would be to crunch the numbers to find out acceleration and to speed in / through each gear for each possible tranny

Been done a few times, the F23/287 sucks, the fiero getrag is the best gear match for most any 500hp motor in town technically. The gear drop in the F40 is not normal for sure, but it has a decent 4th gear.

https://spreadsheets.google...1N1NFN6V1dXT3c&hl=en

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 12-03-2010).]

thank you dark for the good spread sheet info.

quote Originally posted by Puckhead: Wow.....The attitude around here has gotten larger........Tina had a V8 and an Isuzu didn't she????? (and I'm not suggesting that it lasted very long, just that she knew what she had and ran it) and the last time I checked the 3800 was not on the 60 degree forum (being a 90 degree motor and all....) Maybe its just the beer talking tonight, but, I think the forums could be better with more info, less "I'm the **** attitudes", but maybe it's just me. peace out from Planet Budweiser. -T

The Isuzu is a joke. I've seen someone with a measly 2.8liter destroy one. Watching someone install one behind their swap engine is like watching someone load a train full of explosives before chugging down a track with a collapsed bridge. If you drive slow enough it'll last a while, but the first time you gun second gear behind a 4.9, 3.8, SBC, high output 4 cylinder, the gear's going to explode. The Isuzu being simi reliable has been misinformation for years, and I simply wanted to get the point across. Also, 3800 is in the title, the very first example.

There was a time when I'd agree with you about the id vs ego vs super ego part, but having approached this topic before, there are a lot of obstacles to overcome, mainly naysayers, so my confidences outweigh my concern for coming across egotistical. If we were in the same room and you'd have made this point I'd offer to buy you beer.

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 12-03-2010).]

No question the F23 / 287 is performance-geared, even if it's not ideal for the dragstrip with most engines. And the F40-MT2 is economy geared. But the MT2 is the only choice that's available brand new, with no miles on it. Maybe that's no big deal, especially with 22-26 year old cars. But the F40 was rated before being attached to the 3.9, which is nowhere near making as much torque as the F40 is rated for.
This may be veering off topic, but I'm torn which one should go behind which engine, on which cradle. Do I give the 3.8 the F23 to improve performance, or the F40 to make the most of it's ability to do 35 mpg? Do I give the LS3 the F23 to take advantage of the LS3's rev-happy nature, or the F40 to help get decent mpg from such a generous engine? Which combo should go on the '84 cradle, and which on the '88?
Choosing a transmission is not the easiest thing. Sometimes the available funds make the choice for us, but when we have the luxury of deciding, then it takes some spreadsheets and some soul-searching.
Forget about ease of installation, and cost of related parts for a minute. What's gonna make you happy? Can you live with compromised mpg for the sake of a couple tenths at the track? Because even with the F40 or the NSX 6 speed, you still can't have it both ways.
I'm just trying to get you considering the long term aspects, driving, living with it, not just the short term nonsense of getting it in. The difficulty and cost will be forgotten.

Like a bell curve, you have extremes on both ends. For the most part, those who have/will swap motors want something else out of their car. If we didn’t than the stock 2.8 would be fine. No turbo, no NOS, just stock. Using the stock G282 is fine, maybe even using the Isuzu. Money usually is the driving force. But the fact that we are talking about folks who are doing engine swaps, we are already talking about a group of folks who are looking for more power/faster cars. Like it’s been said already, you can have fast, or you can have reliable, but maybe not both. This is a great thread, chest pumping aside.

We have a few different options with the F40, the G282, G284, G287 and Isuzu being the most obvious. We even have options within each group. Different years, different slave, different gears etc. The folks who have a stock SC3800 or DOHC3.4 have a lot of great choices. The folks who have a 2.8l motor also have great options if they want to upgrade their trans and get more performance. But the folks who have a highly modified (turbo, sc3800, LSX) or high rwhp/rw tqe motor have less options. I know this post was more for the folks who have the V6 motors, but having installed a LS376 motor in my 88 coupe, I am more concerned with the V8 options.

As I’m sure many know, I put a 94 G282 (EP-LSD, 3:94 final) behind my LS376, and this talk has me concerned with my choice. I read about how I am going to break gears and axles and such. This is not new, I have done years of research on this, and I’m not a new-be to Fieros/Cars. Now I know many of you have PM’d me and talked offline about it, so I’m not going into all that. But, what is the best choice for the LS motors. I don’t plan on racing my car, I do want to drive it and have fun with it. And I do want to put it on the dyno in a few months, but I have been told that even doing that will break my Trans. I don’t get it. Not everyone who modifies their cars intends to take it to the track. I am curious to see what mine would do at the track, but I may never try. And I also don’t have a lot of experience with the “1320”, so even if I do race it, the time I get may suck. I know I’ll have to be careful out of the hole.

Anyway, keep this up, I love the data. But try to keep it to “I did this, and this happened” not “Well, I heard that….”.

Cheers.
Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 12-03-2010).]

To fix the " grinding in reverse " just put it in 5th first, no need to damage your transmission.

I put my car in reverse at 10mph with no issues, just sayin.. I'm a fast parallel-parker... I tried to lead mera7 onto this a little bit when he was talking about his uber 282 for like the price of a kidney. Hopefully he picks one up and realizes the strength increases over the 282.

I've had my 2 years with the 287, and I'm done. I suppose its time to let a few other people reap the benefits of it now, lol.

EDIT to add a picture of my awesome isuzu shaft. These things can't hold crap. For the post above, tiny ruined those isuzus and eventually switched to a 282.

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 12-03-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I put my car in reverse at 10mph with no issues, just sayin.. I'm a fast parallel-parker... I tried to lead mera7 onto this a little bit when he was talking about his uber 282 for like the price of a kidney. Hopefully he picks one up and realizes the strength increases over the 282. I've had my 2 years with the 287, and I'm done. I suppose its time to let a few other people reap the benefits of it now, lol.

So why are you going to Auto? Why not just upgrade to custom Axles?
I mean a least break the tranny first ,so we know the actual limit.

Jncomutt I sent you a pm about your trannie...

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Soooo, to recap the following transmissions will bolt it to a 3800SC and I could reuse all of the Fiero Manual stuff (axles, cables, etc)? Getrag F23 Transverse FWD, 5-speed manual Saturn Vue RPO = MG3 Getrag F23 FWD, 5-speed manual Chevrolet Cobalt/Chevrolet HHR/Pontiac Pursuit/Saturn ION RPO = M86

No....

quote Originally posted by L67: The transmission you're after is behind the 2000-2002 Pontiac Sunfire or Chevy Cavalier - 2200 engine. Only the transmission behind the 2200 is the correct FWD bellhousing, the others use the ecotech pattern. From 2005 forward, GM began using brass contact pads on the ends of the shift forks, which is an upgrade from the composite material pads used from 2000-2004. The ideal setup would be a low mile transmission from '00-'02 that's been cracked open to add the brass hardware.

M86 has the performance gearing discussed earlier. That SUV version has crappy gearing for serious engines, like anything with more than 3.1L of displacement.
quickgta, your cam sucks, or you'd do best with the F40, because then you could reasonably expect mid 20s for mpg, at interstate speeds. But that cam has too much overlap. It also doesn't have very much valve lift. A bit more research on lsitech.com would've saved you from it, and it would've been cheaper to start with a regular LS3, then do a better cam.

Well, here's what I have found so far on this topic.

The F40 with 0 miles on Ebay is $525 shipped. To make this work with a 3800, you need some kind of install kit. Currently Archie is the only one I know that makes this. The kit costs $3,000 ish. Most of the guys with the F40 haven't really "tested" their transmissions from what I have seen. They drive their cars nice, probably nicer than I am going to drive mine. I would still really like to have a 6-speed but the cost of install and the questionable power handling are a concern to me.

If what l67 and Jncomutt say is true the F23 is a lot cheaper to install, and can handle more power than I am going to be putting down. I've even found one fairly close to me with 7k miles for $350. If this is cheaper AND is proven to handle the power, then I am seriously considering going this route.

Now all I need is someone to sell me their manual stuff from their Fiero **cough cough Jncomutt check your pm's cough cough**

To use the F40, you need a '96-'02 Camaro flywheel, a Spec clutch ( they already make one just for this specific combo ) a set of Cobalt SS supercharged axles, new or used, then modify aFiero Muncie 4 speed shifter, and change 1 cable. I just found a dozen F40s for $400 each, plus shipping.
To use the F23, I found them for $200 each from www.lkqcorp.com which is a nation-wide chain, and they give a warranty.
Your MPG would eventually pay for the F40. Because 1900 rpm at 65 mph is fine for the 3800 engines, but 2400 is un-necessary.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 12-03-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Isolde: To use the F40, you need a '96-'02 Camaro flywheel, a Spec clutch ( they already make one just for this specific combo ) a set of Cobalt SS supercharged axles, new or used, then modify aFiero Muncie 4 speed shifter, and change 1 cable. I just found a dozen F40s for $400 each, plus shipping. To use the F23, I found them for $200 each from www.lkqcorp.com which is a nation-wide chain, and they give a warranty. Your MPG would eventually pay for the F40. Because 1900 rpm at 65 mph is fine for the 3800 engines, but 2400 is un-necessary.

I just looked on LKQ's site, and the ones closes to me were actually more than what you listed. I think I would go for $525 shipped on a brand new F40 before I would go for $400 plus shipping on a transmission with around 50k - 100k miles.

Are you sure about the list for making the F40 work? It seems there was more to it than that on Archie's page. Here it is...

The Master 6 Speed Conversion Kit includes:
Custom Length Left side axle
Custom Length Right side axle
Mounting for Intermediate Shaft Bearing (specify engine being used)
V-8 Archie Stage III F-2 Clutch
Flywheel Friction Plate (specify engine being used)
LSx Forward Right Engine Mount
LSx Right Rear Engine Mount
Forward Transmission Mount (specify engine being used)
Rear Transmission Mount
6 Speed Shift Cable Mounting Brackets
Clutch Line Adapter
Intermediate Shaft for 6 Speed G6 Transmission
Left Side G6 Axle Assembly
Right Side G6 Axle Assembly
G6 Hyd. Clutch Line Fitting Check Valve
Dakota Digital SGI-5

I'm not a mechanic (probably as far from it as you can be), but his list looks longer than yours. Are you saying his stuff isn't necessary? That's great news if you are, and if you're right. Then the F40 is still in consideration.

You mis-understood. Those $400 F40s are brand new, never-installed.
Do you really need the LSx engine mounts, which I didn't include, but your Archie list does? If you're going L67, then you don't need them. And that's just 1 example.
Also, you have the axles listed twice. Lemme explain why: with the axles I listed, there's no need for mods to the G6 axles.
The axles I listed are said to be plug-and-play. I've yet to install them, but the splines on both ends are correct, and the Cobalt track width is correct.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 12-03-2010).]

quote Originally posted by L67: The transmission you're after is behind the 2000-2002 Pontiac Sunfire or Chevy Cavalier - 2200 engine. Only the transmission behind the 2200 is the correct FWD bellhousing, the others use the ecotech pattern. From 2005 forward, GM began using brass contact pads on the ends of the shift forks, which is an upgrade from the composite material pads used from 2000-2004. The ideal setup would be a low mile transmission from '00-'02 that's been cracked open to add the brass hardware.

Ok, so why aren't more people doing this? Is there Only One person running this tranny?

I probably would have decided on using this manual if I knew about it.

Are there viable OE "plug an play" options for the axles too. Not sure why the Fiero Manual axles would be weaker? I would hate to break one everytime I went to the drag strip.

I have one 20+ year OEM Fiero DS Auto axle on my modded 3800SC w 4t65e-HD and it is holding up great.

He's breaking the outer stub, not the axle itself. And he's running like 500 horses on drag tires.
There are 3 or 4 Fieros with F23s, they just aren't chiming in. I have driven the F23, in my cousin's friend's Sunfire, it drives far better than a Fiero Isuzu.

quote Originally posted by L67: Being you brought up Isuzu, lets compare:

I didn't bring up the Isuzu with the idea that it was actually worth a **** . I brought it up on the basis that what you're saying is based only on ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE.

My whole point was that you can't tell all the forum lemmings that this is the strongest transmission ever unless you back that up with data, not just stories.

Your response to this was (not surprisingly) just the kind of "my buddy beats on it and it didn't break so it's awesome" stories that are not FACT/DATA that I was trying to avoid:

quote Originally posted by L67: No, I'm not. I am however all for spreading substantiated long term evidence. I spend enough time at the J-body forums to see how they beat the living hell out of their transmission, and we get to see the aftermath when they crack the cases and show us what the internals look like. There's more than just 1 500+ horsepower car driving around that's sporting an F23. Johnny's not the only one, but I have been in his car, and I have seen how completely uncarring he is for treating his F23 with respect. He feels like clutch dumping, he does it, laughs about it. He's been purposefully trying to break the transmission because he wanted to install the automatic. That means abuse. Lots... and LOTS of abuse. His transmission's fine. That's all the evidence I need. The 284 is a very strong transmission from what I hear, but its expensive - too expensive. You also can't fix it when it breaks. You can find F23's in the local yards all day. You can't find a member here with a V8 and an isuzu mounted behind it to dyno his car. This kind of person doesn't care about drag strips, or racing, or anything to do with going fast. I've seen what a V6 will do to an Isuzu. If a V8 isn't breaking one, its because its making less than 200 torque, or the owner drives it like a little old lady to church.

You want to tell everyone how it's stronger? Drop some data points.
Say, the input shaft of a "weak" 282 is 1.xxx" while the input shaft of the 287 is 1.xxx" inches.
Say you looked the diff bearings up in a Timken design guide catalog and the 287's bearings are rated for "x" while the 282's are rated for "y".
Say you found a test document that indicates the assembly fails under "x" torque more than its predecessor.
Say anything that's based on data, but don't try to drop your opinion like it's fact.

For example, I might say "the connecting rods of the 1987 Iron Duke are stronger than the 1986 model". I would then back up that assertion by providing the beam thickness measurement of .500" for the 1980-1986 variant versus the .640" beam thickness of the 87+ models.

Nosrac, You need to start over at the beginning of this thread and re-read everything, I've already answered several of these questions.

More people aren't doing this because most of us have been keeping the information under the table for at least 2 years. I still remember John and I talking about the transmission at our University homecoming night in 2008. There was a build thread at RFT for some time, including pictures, specs, install walkthrough, shifter linkages, etc. When John tried to post about it here, Formula88 brought up the torque specifications (exactly as mera7 did on page 1) which was shortly followed by a clan of people who were convinced it was not only a bad idea, but the incorrect bolt pattern. We deleted our posts here, John deleted his build thread at RFT, and we've all kept quiet about it since (Jncomutt, Me, Youngun88, Darkhorizon, Will, Levi, Crzyone, Kohburn, Stimpy, Steven Snyder, Fieromadman, anyone who frequented RFT). Here's an example of how things were kept under wraps:

Here John's essentially repeating what he was told here:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/101392.html

Meanwhile, John and I were seeing first hand what it could do, and posts at RFT kept everyone in the loop on longevity and the latest attempts to destroy the transmission.
http://realfierotech.com/ph...?f=3&t=17189&start=0

So if you didn't know about it, its because the information was chased off 2 years ago, by people who thought they knew what they were talking about.

It's very likely John's putting more power to the ground through a manual transaxle than Justin (Justin's quicker, but John has a 130mph trap), so probably the most power through a manual transaxle than any other Fiero. Going through axles tells you something about how strong the transmission is. His new setup with an automatic is probably going to be very quick.

Your modded 3800 is probably making a little over half the torque John is.

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 12-03-2010).]

quote Originally posted by L67: So if you didn't know about it, its because the information was chased off 2 years ago, by people who thought they knew what they were talking about.

I honestly believe this. When I first started looking into Fieros, I was told by several people (Archie, WCF, Darth) that the a manual wouldn't really handle a 3800, period. Then it was, no one is doing the F40. Then it was, well it can be done, but it's too expensive. I've seen a lot of stuff change in the past couple of years. I don't know any of you guys, but I don't think Jncomutt and l67 would be intentionally lying about their experiences. I also don't think that people really know what they claim to know all the time. I actually am hoping this is true. To have a bulletproof manual behind a 3800 is actually my dream, especially if I can make it happen with a 6 speed.

Hey the 3 shaft design keeps coming up for the F23, is the F40 a similar design?

Yeah the F40 is three shaft also. The 282 and 284 aren't.

yes i do remember someone telling me about the f23 a couple of months ago... i went with my fiero 282 case and fiero 282 1st-5th gearset and a H.O. QUAD4 carrier and spiders, and an ep lsd, then had it all 300 below cryoed including the case and axles and stubs. i then had the entire internals rem coated. i built a case girdle/cradle for strength as well. the cryo process supposedly makes the particles in the metal less prone to fatigue by 50 to 72% depending on the metalurgy quality to begin with. thus supposedly making my 282 at least 50% stronger. AGAIN... SUPPOSEDLY. i have no data or charts or imperical evidence to back this up other than the information i was given by 300 below company. the rem coating process also is supposed to make the metalurgy strength go up... again no evidence.
my car is still in the build stage and i have not had a chance to bang on it hard repeatedly. yes i have drove it a couple of times and hit it very hard but not on a day to day basis...YET. now... my reasoning for using my 282 fiero based getrag was a simple one. plug and play. no rodney conversion stuff, no dakota digital, no f40 swap... my car came with a getrag and reinstalling that same case was easy peasy... that was the real reason. im not opposed to the f40, or the f23 at all. but for now the investment i have in the 282 it will have to do until i break it or i dont break it. we will see in time.

quote Originally posted by L67: Nosrac, You need to start over at the beginning of this thread and re-read everything, I've already answered several of these questions. More people aren't doing this because most of us have been keeping the information under the table for at least 2 years. I still remember John and I talking about the transmission at our University homecoming night in 2008. There was a build thread at RFT for some time, including pictures, specs, install walkthrough, shifter linkages, etc. When John tried to post about it here, Formula88 brought up the torque specifications (exactly as mera7 did on page 1) which was shortly followed by a clan of people who were convinced it was not only a bad idea, but the incorrect bolt pattern. We deleted our posts here, John deleted his build thread at RFT, and we've all kept quiet about it since (Jncomutt, Me, Youngun88, Darkhorizon, Will, Levi, Crzyone, Kohburn, Stimpy, Steven Snyder, Fieromadman, anyone who frequented RFT). Here's an example of how things were kept under wraps: Here John's essentially repeating what he was told here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/101392.html Meanwhile, John and I were seeing first hand what it could do, and posts at RFT kept everyone in the loop on longevity and the latest attempts to destroy the transmission. http://realfierotech.com/ph...?f=3&t=17189&start=0 So if you didn't know about it, its because the information was chased off 2 years ago, by people who thought they knew what they were talking about. It's very likely John's putting more power to the ground through a manual transaxle than Justin (Justin's quicker, but John has a 130mph trap), so probably the most power through a manual transaxle than any other Fiero. Going through axles tells you something about how strong the transmission is. His new setup with an automatic is probably going to be very quick. Your modded 3800 is probably making a little over half the torque John is.

Thanks, sorry for asking about what has already been said, but I have a hard time sifting through the sarcasm and misinformation to get to the truth.
It is easy to get misled by reputiable sources that just "don't beleive the hype", even though it is the truth.
Me I don't argue with the facts.
BTW I hate you for telling me this, NOW.

quote Originally posted by nosrac: BTW I hate you for telling me this, NOW.

I know, right?

Better now than never.

great thred i love the imfo, i guess a stick is back in the plans. and to me real world tests are better that measurements. measurements can be misleading, just because its bigger doesent mean its beter.

quote Originally posted by L67: No need to use a transmission without a synchro'd reverse. Unless you prefer older tech.

Doesn't make sense...they just added a syncro...that's not new at all...far from it. I don't personally plan to randomly jam it in reverse.

Now I'm reading some slightly off putting things...such as people keeping their " secrets " for this or that reason...which if this is true imho defeats the purpose of being on a forum that is for sharing information etc. Last I checked we're not competing race team.

If you're going to delete posts and try to screw other people out of knowledge I'm not sure why you're here. I'm going to opt out now and hope the fiero community isn't going down hill.

As for the numbers argument...numbers are everything but not always necessary. Not everyone is comfortable guesstimating the hp of their car or some other spec that if you want it to be taken seriously should have hard numbers behind it.

It does seem the tranny here in question is a good one, number would be appreciated though and I would think if you had done this swap or are seriously considering it that you would want to know the specs of your transmission.

quote Originally posted by Hockaday: If you're going to delete posts and try to screw other people out of knowledge I'm not sure why you're here. I'm going to opt out now and hope the fiero community isn't going down hill. As for the numbers argument...numbers are everything but not always necessary. Not everyone is comfortable guesstimating the hp of their car or some other spec that if you want it to be taken seriously should have hard numbers behind it. It does seem the tranny here in question is a good one, number would be appreciated though and I would think if you had done this swap or are seriously considering it that you would want to know the specs of your transmission.

So you're upset that I've shared this with everyone here, and you are going to continue using your 282. Cool story.