quote Originally posted by GeMs: So if you get the 09-10 XFE trans and swap the bellhousing on it, could you use the Thelin 5 speed shift adapter and mounts? Or does the ecotec use a different tranny.

I'll say this again. Yes, you can use the trunk side mount with some minor modifications, you can use his shift adapter if you make your own cable mounts. I think you're better off making them similar to what rodney offers for the 90s getrags, however.

pics of 2002 vin 4 cavalier f23 and another 2010 cobalt f23

here is roger thelins kit if any one is interested.found the invoice , all this was 275.00 .i have decided to leave my setup the way it is so i am going to put this for sale in the mall for 200.00 .pics:







this stuff is really well made and has detailed instructions .as far as mounts go on my swap i used the stock cavalier rubber mounts and welded some 1/8" flat bar pieces to my cradle .considering most factory mounts are just made of sheet metal , you dont need to be too elaborate .just make sure you double shear mount and if you are not a good welder have a friend do it .

Clutch question -

Earlier in the thread FieroFiend said:
"The jbody guys are using the 2200 SFI clutch and pressure plate kits with the f23 attached to a 3800 in those. Which should give the trans the stack height it wants to have, since the 2200 flywheel is also the standard .840ish from what Ive gathered after having done mine already using fiero hardware. Which should in theory apply to the stock v6 as well, its worked for multiple people out of the box but should be checked regardless."

Now I thought someplace else in this thread it said that the stock Fiero clutch and pressure plates would work? Or no?

Last concern, with me running Archies adapter plate for my 350 - any measurements that I might need to make that would be different from if this was bolted up to a 3800, in order for everything to mate/engage? (Besides one already mentioned, like with the HTOB and clutch pedal travel) I'm just concerned that my input shaft (jeez i hope that's the right name for what I'm thinking of) is going to be long enough.

Thanks guys!

quote Originally posted by Trinten: stock Fiero clutch and pressure plates would work? Or no?

I'm prob the only one that has explored this issue. Some brands/styles work, some don't. The clearance needed is very small. You can easily get the needed room with a grinder to either the PP or the trans case if you're daring. Or you could just use a PP known to not rub.

So given that my adapter plate gave me enough room to use a Clutchnet Pressure plate that does not work in a completely stock Fiero... then it's likely that both my clutch and PP would drop in without an issue?

Thanks John!

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF MY FIERO FRIENDS.... MIKE IN OKLAH0MA

Thelins shift reverse kit is completely unnecessary when using the 2200 f23, its much much easier and cheaper to make your own cable mounts (one of his ecotec ones wont work anyways) and reversing the up down motion at the transmission can be done with one simple cut and re-weld of the steel bracket the ball is attached to. My method simple as it is keeps the stock shift shaft of the f23 oriented the way it was ment to be.

quote Originally posted by FieroFiend: Thelins shift reverse kit is completely unnecessary when using the 2200 f23, its much much easier and cheaper to make your own cable mounts (one of his ecotec ones wont work anyways) and reversing the up down motion at the transmission can be done with one simple cut and re-weld of the steel bracket the ball is attached to. My method simple as it is keeps the stock shift shaft of the f23 oriented the way it was ment to be.

Can we see (or have you posted) your method? Or is it a secret too? -Jason

quote Originally posted by Fierofreak00: Can we see (or have you posted) your method? Or is it a secret too? -Jason

All you do it lop the end of the steel ball bracket off and switch the side it pulls and pushes from and weld it back on pretty simple and was mentioned earlier in the thread and more or less in the post qouted. Theres nothing secret about the swap from anyone its all here in this thread and others. There isnt a single way to do the swap its like a 3800 theres about 1000 ways it can be done and they generally all work out in the end just preference.

Theres nothing overly difficult about the swap.

Ill see if I can scrounge up a pic of mine when I first did it, ugly but it worked fine still does its just less ugly now.

[This message has been edited by FieroFiend (edited 12-24-2010).]

Bump !

trani related question, i am running a 5 speed getrag but i too a speck 3 clutch from a 4 speed was brand new so i would like to use it, is there any diifferance ?

A 4 speed clutch will interfere with the Getrag housing. I had a 4-speed Spec stage III clutch in my car with the Getrag very briefly, it was too thick and gouged the tranny in a couple spots.

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1987 Fiero GT - 3800 Series III, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Magnaflow

bump for a good thread.

talked to Jeremy at spec, and the word is there are specific presure plates for 4 and 5 speed , and 5 speed getrag all diifferent,i have read lots on this and see that guys have gotten away with swaping clutches from different model tranis, but in my situation i am running a 5 speed getrag i tryed to get away with useing a spec 3 clutch from a 4 speed apparently the PP is larger than PP on the 5 speed so there may be interferance inside the trani case,
lucky i got this info before i put my motor in last thing i need is trani issues, I am presently looking at a few different clutch set ups, i have seen prices range from 350, to 800 my car is not a daily driver or drag car but i still want smooth engagement, i have driven a few 3800sc 5 and 6 speeds that had agresive clutches and i didnt like it at all, would rather go through a clutch every 2 years then have a car shift like a wild beast,
Curlys wide body v8 fastback with 6 speed shifts like butter with smooth engagement A++ on clutch selection i think Archie did his car so he will know what clutch he used.

I picked up my F23 today. It's got a little rust on it, but the car it came out of only had 1000 miles on the Odometer. The input shaft has some surface rust in addition to the boot/seal at the base of the input shaft being torn.

I tried searching for rebuild kits (to see if I could replace the various rusty pieces on the transmission as well as that torn boot/seal) but haven't found any! Or even just that boot/seal by itself! Is there another "proper" name for it I should be using?

Advance auto was the most odd, their website, even after putting in the vehicle, just gave me stuff for the HM282 and the Isuzu 5 speed. All the other ones I've checked (Napa, Autozone, and O'Reillys) only had stuff for the auto-transmission, and some gaskets for the manual. Suggestions/part numbers would be great!!

That boot you're referring to is probably the hydraulic throw out bearing.

Nuts! I'll take a picture of it tomorrow and gert it put up on my webshots for verification, along with some of the other pieces I'd like to replace with rust-free ones.

Thanks man!

quote Originally posted by Trinten: Nuts! I'll take a picture of it tomorrow and gert it put up on my webshots for verification, along with some of the other pieces I'd like to replace with rust-free ones. Thanks man!

the trans itself is an aluminum case, wont rust. maybe your referring to some bolt on pieces/brackets? im with jnco its likely your htob

You are correct! It's just little things bolted to it that are rusted, and a cover that's on the opposite side of the transmission from the input shaft. I'll have pictures up tomorrow morning before I go into work.

I have more, but here's a few pics of the transmission, namely the input shaft and that rusty plate. So that green thing with the tear is definitely the HTOB? And what is that rusty plate called so I can replace it?





The other pics of the transmission (and other ones related to my Fiero) can be found here:
http://community.webshots.c...36699ZNVhrk?start=12

Yeah, thats the HTOB thats ripped. The other piece is just an end plate. It can be cleaned/painted.

Thank you for the verification and information.

I don't know what to suggest you do about the input shaft. It looks 'a little worse for oxidation'.

Hopefully once I clean it up it'll look okay. Hopefully.

Best of luck getting that done. The transmission does look pretty rough, oxidation on the case is pretty normal, but the input shaft being in such shape, I wonder what the "enclosed" portion of that shaft and the gears look like. It might be worthwhile to crack the case on a "rainy day".

Well, I have tomorrow off from work... no idea where to start with opening a transmission properly. ... got any plans tomorrow L67? lol

Not a chance.

Here's something I put together for the visual learners out there. Trinten, skip steps 21-25, you won't need to remove the shafts.

Holy smokes that's awesome! Where did you get/find that documentation??

Thank you very much! At a glance it all looks pretty straight forward. Hopefully no curve balls.

It's information I scavenged from an old version of AllData and assembled in photoshop.

Still very handy! Thank you.

It talks about need an input shaft anti-rotation tool... these things look to be about a hundred bucks. I'm guessing it's pretty critical to have one of those? Also in Step 10 it says to turn the transmission over (after taking out the bolts... guess it's not at the 'fall apart stage' yet) and puncture a seal with anything handy. So literally, I'll see a seal, and I need to cut it with a knife or something or else I'll damage the transmission in the rest of the disassembly?

And two last questions (for now). There's alot of seals and such - like the "oil guides" from step 12 - being taken out and tossed, any ideas on who carries replacements?
And how do I know when it's in neutral (one of the steps says to put it in neutral before continuing).

[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 01-17-2011).]

The tools are automakers proprietary method of generating additional revenue. A special tool is supposed to be used to press the shafts out of the idler bearings. The guys on the jbody forums are using crowbars and hammers to dislodge the shafts - literally (to give you an idea). Use what you have to get by, although I by no means endorse or encourage using a crowbar and/or hammer. The Getrag M282 disassemble manual also calls for a slue specific tools. Short of removing the shafts, I got by with the normal and a few tools I built in the garage.

Step 10 - The directions are to puncture the middle of the seal in order to prevent scarring of the walls the seal seals against. If the walls are scarred, the seal will no longer prevent fluid from leaking past the cover onto your clutch and you will have caused "damage to the transmission". Not removing the seal will not cause independent damage to the transmission during the rest of the disassemble process, you won't be able to get behind it to the bolt that's holding the two halves together at the intermediate shaft. Essentially, you'll just be stuck at step 10. Re read the directions, they'll make sense this time around.

The seals are designed to be disposable. It's very likely that the newest 287's are still using the same diameter seals and should be available at the very least at your local dealership. In the case of the m282, replacement seals are extremely hard to come by, and aren't available from the dealership anymore. This shouldn't be the case with the 287, although I haven't made an effort to find one.

Well, I got started on it today and lost my nerve. Thankfully I had one of those "friend of a friend" things that fell into place. The guy works at AAMCO during the day and does business on the side, and builds up racing things for himself. Very impressive home shop and collection of his own cars. So he said he'd do the tear down and inspection and reassembly for me for a hundred, and advise me on anything that needs to be changed/replaced/upgraded and the costs. He said that he knew guys in modified ecotecs that were putting out huge amounts of power and not breaking the F23. Keeping my fingers crossed that it's all okay.

quote Originally posted by Trinten: Well, I got started on it today and lost my nerve. Thankfully I had one of those "friend of a friend" things that fell into place. The guy works at AAMCO during the day and does business on the side, and builds up racing things for himself. Very impressive home shop and collection of his own cars. So he said he'd do the tear down and inspection and reassembly for me for a hundred, and advise me on anything that needs to be changed/replaced/upgraded and the costs. He said that he knew guys in modified ecotecs that were putting out huge amounts of power and not breaking the F23. Keeping my fingers crossed that it's all okay.

That is good to hear. Both the fact you found a trust worthy person and the fact the power levels it can withstand.

Can't wait to hear and see a perfected write up on this.

So, who is going to sell a kit for this?

bump

quote Originally posted by mptighe: So, who is going to sell a kit for this?

i dont have time to build a commercial kit. maybe someone else here could.

I'm still waiting to get my transmission back from the guy doing the tear down. There's no rush on it so I'm not on his case about it. Some Fiero enthusiasts who have a fair amount of experience with 3800 swaps said they'd help me with my swap - but they live about 3 hours away, so if we did get any wrenches thrown in the works, it wouldn't be finished in a weekend, leading to logistics issues.

When I talk to the guy who has my transmission, I'll see if he has any interest in doing the fabrication/mockup/installation. Regardless of who ultimately does it, I'll try to make sure it's as documented as possible and put it all up when it's finished. It's not quite a kit, but it'll be a step in the right direction for the DIY group that doesn't like trial and error.