I know this thread will probably end up in the trash can, but I wanted to ask anyway. I am also aware this discussion has been held before but members change and so do opinions and what is the current opinion?

So, is there anyone here that supports the concept of an 86.5? Personally I like the idea that my car is part of a 2200 car group; however I know some people are defiantly opposed to this sub-year designation. So, if we can keep this civil, can we have a simple vote just to see which side of the fence the majority resides?

Also, if anyone has a link to a reputable source (not Wikipedia) that can define a 1/2 model or knows someone in GM or other equally qualified organization, please feel free to set the record straight once and for all.

Its an '86, anything else is just marketing/identification of a non-existant mid-year change.

a half year model used to refer to a totally new model of car that was released partway through a model year .for example :1964 1/2 ford mustang .the 86 gt was just an update of the 85 gt notchy that was not offered in 1986 , and really was not an all new model .most car companies now do not use the 1/2 year designation , instead they just call it the next full year coming up .

In 1986 you had two models with the V6... SE and GT and they both existed at the same time, with the SE preceding the GT by a few months. The early 86SE did not become the late 86GT... They were different options.

So... vote: 1986 only.

quote Originally posted by wftb: most car companies now do not use the 1/2 year designation , instead they just call it the next full year coming up .

True, the last 1/2 year I recall was the 2004 1/2 Passat.

So, the next question is what percent of the car needs to be changed for a half year? 50%? 75%? 90%?
I like all the good points so far. I'll just quietly wish that it was a 1/2 model year car despite what the facts say.

"We reserve the right to change or modify pricing, specifications, features, products, options, dimensions,
and materials without notice or obligation."

Was it another sub-year when they introduced the Getrag?

quote Originally posted by TopNotch: "We reserve the right to change or modify pricing, specifications, features, products, options, dimensions, and materials without notice or obligation." Was it another sub-year when they introduced the Getrag?

86 3/4 GT? What about the 5 speed in the SE? Didn't that get the 5 speed? so, we also have the 86 1/2 SE?

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: 86 3/4 GT? What about the 5 speed in the SE? Didn't that get the 5 speed? so, we also have the 86 1/2 SE?

Well if it were an official 1/2 year, it would apply to the Fiero, and not sub-models. Any 86 produced after Day XX, Month YY, 1986 would have to be considered 1/2. The trim levels are irrelevant.

But really, they are all 86es.

The Getrag 5-speed was introduced mid year on the 86 V6 models. That was the big change in that years production, and was never referred to as an 86 1/2 by Pontiac. Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall all 4 speeds were built prior to January of 86.

Just '86... that's all there is to it.

I think what simply needs to be done is for people to be educated CORRECTLY on why, if applicable, there should be a 1986 1/2 designation.

For some reason, many state that the reason there is a "1/2" designation is because the fastback was a late build for 1986. This is incredibly incorrect. the 1986 fastback could be ordered just like any model at any time for the 1986 model year, albeit it came in SLIGHTLY late. However, at the time of introduction it came with the four speed transmission like other Fieros. Late into the 1986 year model, the five speed Getrag was introduced. The basic overall model of the fastback GT, except obviously the transmission, remained the same. Additionally as mentioned above, the "1/2" designation is typically given mid-year when a radically new vehicle is introduced. This was not the case with the 1986 Fiero GT and so it should not receive that designation.

I own a late build '86 with the Getrag. I in no shape or form consider it a "1/2" and do not call it that. It's an 1986 Fiero GT fastback. Nothing more. Nothing less. What people should attempt to figure out though is how many five speed GT Fieros were built for '86 in comparison to four speed GT '86 Fieros. A good percentage rating would be nice to know. My car is a rather late build for the 1986 year model and it would interesting to know right about where the "cutoff" point was for four speed '86 GTs.

Did Pontiac differentiate an 86.5 model year from other 86 models? If the VIN says 86 - it's an 86.

quote Originally posted by Fiero84Freak: The 1986 fastback could be ordered just like any model at any time for the 1986 model year, albeit it came in SLIGHTLY late.

This isn't entirely true according to Gary Witzenburg's Fiero - Pontiac's Potent Mid Engine Sports Car which states:

"The 1986 Fiero line, introduced on 12 Sept 1985, arrived minus the GT." (page 76)

"On 3 Jan 1986 the wraps finally came off the new fastback Fiero GT. Pontiac made its announcement on that date, but actual cars wouldn't become available for at least another month." (page 76)

"When the Muncie/Getrag 5 speed finally became available in June 1986, Pontiac began installing it as a running upgrade in all subsequent GT's." (page 77)

So, the 86 came out, then the fastback GT and even later the Getrag 5-speed.
Do people now want an 86, 86.5 and 86.75 model years?

Mid year changes don't necessarily mean it's considered a separate model year. The '84 Fiero could have been called an 83.5 since it came out so early in 1983, but Pontiac called it a 1984, even though the Indy didn't come out until later in the year. It's good for collectors to know when the mid year changes are, and sometimes it isn't obvious. In 1992 Mercury made several mid-year changes to the Grand Marquis. Engineering changes to the starter, transmission, etc. Parts are not interchangeable and the only way to tell which you have is to check the VIN or pull the parts. With the Fiero if it's a fastback GT, you know it came out in the latter part of the year. Same for the Getrag 5-speed. What else needs to be said?

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: This isn't entirely true according to Gary Witzenburg's Fiero - Pontiac's Potent Mid Engine Sports Car which states: "The 1986 Fiero line, introduced on 12 Sept 1985, arrived minus the GT." (page 76) "On 3 Jan 1986 the wraps finally came off the new fastback Fiero GT. Pontiac made its announcement on that date, but actual cars wouldn't become available for at least another month." (page 76) "When the Muncie/Getrag 5 speed finally became available in June 1986, Pontiac began installing it as a running upgrade in all subsequent GT's." (page 77)

That's "slightly" late

However, the big kicker is the June 1986 date. If you go off of the prior date for when the 1986 model line-up was introduced, that leaves a very small window from June '86 to when the '87s would have been introduced. Jan '86 to June '86 is a lot longer than June '86 to whenever the '87s would have came out. Again, it would be interesting to know a relatively rough figure of percentage of '86 GTs with the four speed as opposed to the '86 GTs with the five speed. Then there's also the SE V6 cars, which would have gone through the same changes. Since there was relatively a 1:2 ratio of '86 GTs in relation to their '86 SE brothers, that's a bigger window for the SE cars, although I'm guessing the cutoff point would have been around the same area.

Its just an option change. I don't see the big deal. Its like with the newer GM heated windshield washer fluid tanks. They've removed them as an option, so that some '08 Yukons you could get them, some you couldn't. You don't consider the ones without it to be an '08.5... It's still just an '08. With the '86, a new option became available, but it was still just an '86 GT. The model didn't change in the least, it simply was given a new option.

I distinctly remember the dealer (Zimmer Pontiac/GMC in Moscow, Idaho) where I purchased my 86 SE (very early in the model year) calling the 86 GT an 86 1/2. I never saw it referred to as such in the Pontiac literature, however....it was referred to as a late introduction.

So my guess it was probably never officially specified with an interim model year designation by Pontiac, but individual dealers could market it as they saw fit.

Alright people, here are the facts. Source: Enthusiasts Guide to the Pontiac Fiero. We have two 86's here (including mine) for further proof of this if needed.

I personally don't call the 86GT "1/2", but the 86GT was released in February, 1986, as a new model. Before that there was only the coupe, sport coupe, and SE model. From September 85 to February 86 is a large production gap, so no it was not released at "about" the same time.

Also, the June 1986 date for the release of the 5-speed getrag is correct, and that includes ALL V6 Fiero's. Finding a 5-speed Getrag in a 86, even more so a GT is uncommon, but they are out there. Again, proof, my dad's 86GT was made in May 86 and had the 4-speed from the factory. I know I'll get people that say they have seen "this number of 86's with 5-speed Getrag's from the factory!" Well fine, but they are still in low numbers. What numbers or percentages I do not know, I do know in 1986 there were 32,305 SE's made (38.5% of 86 production) and 17,660 GT's made (21.0% of 86 production)

EDIT: I find it ironic Fiero84Freak said people needed to be educated on the matter correctly, yet he is incorrect himself. Just stating, no bashing or anything.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-07-2011).]

I do not know about the 1/2 model year but i did own a early 86 gt that was in fact a notch back. I has the 2nd owner of the car and was title as a 86gt. I have seen others as well.
I know a lot of people says that pontiac did not make a 86 notch back gt.

Just wondering, how many 86 SE's are out there with a four speed tranny?
I have never seen one myself.

quote Originally posted by Indiana_resto_guy: Just wondering, how many 86 SE's are out there with a four speed tranny? I have never seen one myself.

I always thought most 86SE got the 4spd. Mine came with a 4spd from the factory but it was also wired for the Getrag 5 spd. It made the swap very clean.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 05-07-2011).]

quote Originally posted by My04gt: I do not know about the 1/2 model year but i did own a early 86 gt that was in fact a notch back. I has the 2nd owner of the car and was title as a 86gt. I have seen others as well. I know a lot of people says that pontiac did not make a 86 notch back gt.

Alot of people say that because they in fact didn't. I could have been titled wrong or something.

quote Originally posted by Indiana_resto_guy: Just wondering, how many 86 SE's are out there with a four speed tranny? I have never seen one myself.

All manual 86 SE's came with the 3.65 4-speed Muncie except for the ones made after June 1986, so that means most did.

quote Originally posted by My04gt: I did own a early 86 gt that was in fact a notch back.

I don't buy it. You'd have to post the VIN to be taken seriously. The VIN would identify both, that it was an early '86 (low production number) AND that it was a GT (fifth letter a G for GT). Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing you... but many used-car buyers were fooled into believing their SE's were GT's because the previous owner changed the decals, making it apparently "more valuable". But the VIN doesn't lie.

I no longer have the vin. but it was a notch GT. had all gt items and the gt vin. but i did not keep the vin when i sold the car. wish i had kept it know.

quote Originally posted by My04gt: I do not know about the 1/2 model year but i did own a early 86 gt that was in fact a notch back. I has the 2nd owner of the car and was title as a 86gt. I have seen others as well. I know a lot of people says that pontiac did not make a 86 notch back gt.

As mentioned, we would need the vin. I am guessing you had a 1985GT that was purchased in 86. I didn't think the title said GT or SE... only Fiero, but title names can vary by state. The VIN would be the only way to know. Do you have an old proof of insurance?

86.5 GT is still an 86 GT, the only thing that bugs me is when somebody with an 86 SE (usually a moron selling it) calls in an 86 GT.

Factory VIN model year designation is all that really matters. The '86 was a fastback and the '85 was a notch back. Anybody can call it whatever they want, but it's still either an '86 or an '85. 86.5 is just another myth, sort of like the Lotus-designed suspension for '88 or the low oil pressure fuel pump cutoff.

quote Originally posted by mattwa: EDIT: I find it ironic Fiero84Freak said people needed to be educated on the matter correctly, yet he is incorrect himself. Just stating, no bashing or anything.

Yeah yeah...

Just a confirmation since the Getrag has been brought into question here. The first known getrag Fiero is vin 1G2PF3798GP276399. It is an 86 SE built in 06/86. It was purchased through Courtesy Pontiac in Longwood, FL, but first titled at Shaw AFB in Sumter, SC on 11/04/86. It is currently sitting in my garage. Naturally, the claim of this being the first is open to be proved wrong...I find it hard to believe I actually own the first, but so far I haven't found an earlier one.

For the record....IMNSHO (In My Not So Humble Opinion), all 86 GTs were fastbacks, they were simply 86 GTs, and should all be considered donor cars for the notchbacks. There is no such thing as an 86.5 GT.