... speed is relative...point A to point B... all depends on how fast you want to get there... me, in one piece WITHOUT killing anyone while getting there. Once you have flown in a jet fighter like I have SPEED in a car is VERY F'N boring..... I'll always remember the rumble of those Pratt & Whitneys pushing our a$$es across the runway on take off... NO F'N QUARTER MILE SC3800 fiero WILL BEAT THAT ... thats all I will say... I love SC3800 and one day will have one in my wife's fiero... not for speed its "passé" to me.
Originally posted by Justinbart: I'll take on that challenge.
Challenge what ...an F-18 on quarter mile ??? Probably you could.....since the F-18 does it in 11.9. quarter mile... but passed that mark you would be toast ....
Why should you be able to beat a stock '11 Camaro or Mustang?
Not that you don't want to, but my point is that the state of the art has come so far that a stock '11 Camaro is a pretty fast car. The V6 Model is pushing over 300 hp and it's got all brand new parts around it. Why should bolting in a junkyard V8 into a 25 year old car automatically make it faster than the '11 Camaro?
The Fiero has the problem with finding a suitable transaxle to hold the torque of a V8. It's easy enough to bolt in an LSx motor but unless you spend megabucks you are going to break something if you try to make it as fast as that '11 Carmaro.
In my humble opinion if your goal is to be as fast as the '11 Camaro you might as well save yourself the trouble and just buy the Camaro. The ZL1 Camaro has a top speed over 180 mph. The 1/4 mile time is reported at "only" 12.0 for the auto and I'm sure somebody on here will complain that it's slow and their Fiero is faster. Well I'd rather own the ZL1 Camaro over any Fiero.
It was just a benchmark in 1/4 times.. There isn't a problem, throw an F23 or F40 at it, the first choice being the more robust, cheaper, and quicker option. A '11 Camaro SS runs a low 13 sec quarter mile, should be laughable with all the high performance swaps done around here.
Your humble opinion makes the least bit of sense, its a fiero forum and we build our cars to our specifications and desires..
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01:05 AM
L67 Member
Posts: 1792 From: Winston Salem, NC Registered: Jun 2010
Your humble opinion makes the least bit of sense, its a fiero forum and we build our cars to our specifications and desires..
Maybe you don't know me, but maybe it would make more sense if I told you that I was one of the people that bolted a junkyard V8 to my Fiero. But I didn't do it so that it could be faster than a new Camaro. I did it because I like Fieros and I built my car to my specifications and desires.
My point is that if speed is all I wanted it would be far more efficient to just buy the Camaro in the first place rather than trying to stuff a Camaro engine into a Fiero.
You're right, I don't.. Thats fine, you did what you like and thats all that matters.. I was merely attempting to state that if one wants to be competitive today with their fiero, those are the kinds of vehicles and times that need to be matched or exceeded.. Simply put.
Your last point makes even less sense. How is it more efficient? Its definitely faster and easier, but compare the cost of a $35k car to a $2-3k car with another $2-4k engine/ tranny swap and mods that will be quicker.
Why do we own these cars in the first place? They're money pits, temperamental, and sh*tboxes by todays standards. Its a hobby, and I just always found it fascinating how people have done dirt cheap swaps and do crazy things with these cars. Not cause anything we do here is efficient..
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02:27 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
You're right, I don't.. Thats fine, you did what you like and thats all that matters.. I was merely attempting to state that if one wants to be competitive today with their fiero, those are the kinds of vehicles and times that need to be matched or exceeded.. Simply put.
Your last point makes even less sense. How is it more efficient? Its definitely faster and easier, but compare the cost of a $35k car to a $2-3k car with another $2-4k engine/ tranny swap and mods that will be quicker.
Why do we own these cars in the first place? They're money pits, temperamental, and sh*tboxes by todays standards. Its a hobby, and I just always found it fascinating how people have done dirt cheap swaps and do crazy things with these cars. Not cause anything we do here is efficient..
Buying the Camaro is a more efficient use of money because it could have occurred in one day and resulted in the finished car. If you are so inclined you can read my 23 page build thread and I can tell you that I have way more than $35K tied up in my car andd it's still a 25 year old POS to just about everybody except me and it's still far from finished.
And it's no where near as fast, or quiet or smooth as a brand new Camaro. So in a sense I'm agreeing with you that we all build Fieros because we want to, but speed is only the motivation of some, not everybody.
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03:02 AM
L67 Member
Posts: 1792 From: Winston Salem, NC Registered: Jun 2010
Time Tom. Opportunity costs. It takes time to build a car. No less than a year to build an 11 second Fiero; fabrication, tuning, run time, and testing. You can buy a C6 Corvette that will run 10's with a pair of slicks. You can buy the Corvette in a day, beat the **** out of it, and it'll last, someone's already done all of legwork and fixed all of the problems. It has a plethora of support; if something breaks, you go to the store and buy another part that's been mass manufactured, the repair procedure is well documented, and the repair itself is easy because the platform was designed to be serviceable. Then when you're done, the vehicle has a high resale value, you get a great deal back out of what you put in. The Fiero has none of these on its side, it's an uphill battle to design a race car out of a commuter car that was built in a time when quality control was a fragment of what it is now.
You can't out build a manufacturer or cheat time, you can chase your tail forever, but you'll never surmount the pros. You say the Fiero is cheap to modify, but you're only talking about initial purchase price. Spend a year building the car, and then it isn't worth anything. Akursed getting what he did for his turbo 3800 is a perfect example. You can pick up a C5 for $15k. It's going to be competitive with a 3800 powered Fiero, out handle every Fiero in existance, and do it with class and essence. Cam or swap the LS engine and it'll run with FieroX. That's just an example.
Why do you own a Fiero? What kind of a hobby is one that saps your resources? Why are you fascinated? Serious questions.
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03:02 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
If I get stopped in calif with my turboed ls4 (which is registered in Idaho) while I'm visiting calif. will they confiscate it?
First it would take a trafic violation to get the car pulled over. Then the nature of the infraction would determan if they impound the car and inspect it for modification. But the simple answere is yes, they can say your car is modified for race no matter what state it is registered. Think about it, Americans LOVE cars, fast ones and we have race cars in all of the states. CA does not want ANY "race cars" on the streets racing. The law was targeting kids in fart can imports but covers all cars.
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03:22 AM
nitroheadz28 Member
Posts: 4774 From: Brooklyn, NY Registered: Mar 2010
Time Tom. Opportunity costs. It takes time to build a car. No less than a year to build an 11 second Fiero; fabrication, tuning, run time, and testing. You can buy a C6 Corvette that will run 10's with a pair of slicks. You can buy the Corvette in a day, beat the **** out of it, and it'll last, someone's already done all of legwork and fixed all of the problems. It has a plethora of support; if something breaks, you go to the store and buy another part that's been mass manufactured, the repair procedure is well documented, and the repair itself is easy because the platform was designed to be serviceable. Then when you're done, the vehicle has a high resale value, you get a great deal back out of what you put in. The Fiero has none of these on its side, it's an uphill battle to design a race car out of a commuter car that was built in a time when quality control was a fragment of what it is now.
You can't out build a manufacturer or cheat time, you can chase your tail forever, but you'll never surmount the pros. You say the Fiero is cheap to modify, but you're only talking about initial purchase price. Spend a year building the car, and then it isn't worth anything. Akursed getting what he did for his turbo 3800 is a perfect example. You can pick up a C5 for $15k. It's going to be competitive with a 3800 powered Fiero, out handle every Fiero in existance, and do it with class and essence. Cam or swap the LS engine and it'll run with FieroX. That's just an example.
Why do you own a Fiero? What kind of a hobby is one that saps your resources? Why are you fascinated? Serious questions.
Yes I know... Especially when that time goes to waste when some idiot destroys your work in a matter of seconds, and the car was worthless anyway even with all of the new parts and work in it. I'm not going to get into QC, I believe that these cars were built better than anything GM on the market right now- or has been producing in the last decade. I know all of the cons, but thats the thing... Its a Fiero. If all of us wanted all of those characteristics then we'd all be driving around in mid-life-crisis-mobiles AKA Vettes.
Why do I own a Fiero? Endless possibilities for modification in every aspect.. From radically being able to change powerplants/ transmissions/ the entire exterior/ interior. The timeless styling that most other cars lack, the history behind it, the uniqueness of the whole package. I can go on. Tell me of a hobby that doesn't "sap" resources? Most hobbies are usually not financially sound investments, so they're labeled as hobbies because of their recreational value.
Anyways, I just like sh*tboxes that go fast . Built not bought, theres just something about it!
Anyways, I just like sh*tboxes that go fast . Built not bought, theres just something about it!
I have to agree with this statement. I'm much more proud of the Fiero I built at a local car show, compared to the shiny new purple Challenger making over 600HP. All that shows me is you have no skill, just money to throw around. I don't, so I have to be creative and resourceful. Same with others, I much rather talk to someone who built there own car themselves with there own blood sweat and tears, then someone who paid someone else to do it for them and/or just bought it. Sure, as L67 said, its less time and trouble for you, but IMO, what's the fun in that? Yes I get VERY frustrated at my Fiero's but the time I spend driving it, taking it to shows, and showing off my work and laughing with friends makes it worth it to me.
You boys keep using terms like "shitbox", etc to describe Fieros. I have seen Fieros at the meets to die for and NOBODY would look at them and see "shitboxes". Madcurl's stuff is to die for, and more than a few really talented builders have cars to slobber over. Also, those newer cars with 300 HP V6 power have not proven they are more reliable than a 3800 in any form. At a thousand pounds heavier they are not any faster than a bone stock 3800SC. Top speed stabilty, I'll give you that, but that's an idiots game to begin with. There is zero use for 180 MPH in a street car.
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10:43 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Akursed getting what he did for his turbo 3800 is a perfect example. You can pick up a C5 for $15k. It's going to be competitive with a 3800 powered Fiero, out handle every Fiero in existance, and do it with class and essence. Cam or swap the LS engine and it'll run with FieroX. That's just an example.
But the reality is, VERY few "vettes with a cam" have a chance against me on the street....
The fiero is a great little car for building a stupidly fast street racer car.
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11:06 AM
L67 Member
Posts: 1792 From: Winston Salem, NC Registered: Jun 2010
Well being people have always "drooled over my Fiero's", I'll chime in. My state moto is "Esse Quam Videri" - To be, rather than to seem.
You're new. Give it some time. Madcurl's car? Underneath all the chrome plating, bondo, bing bling, and expensive wheels is the same spaceframe that was used on the 1984 bumper pad car. With a butchered roof to boot. Solid tie rod rear suspension geometry. Outboard shocks. McPherson struts in the back. Cast iron knuckles. You wanna die for that? Don't sell yourself short, it's an imitation, nothing more. A new Hyundia Genesis sedan will whip it. And you want to talk about engine reliability, don't get me started on the Northstar that's in the back of that car.
I wouldn't recommend the Camaro either, but the LS powered car will destroy any of the supercharged 3800's in any platform; Fiero or FWD. The Camaro is the kind of platform you can do a wheelstand on reliably. Zero use for 180 mph? How about 80 mph? I derive the words like "shitbox" from driving a Fiero in moderate speed conditions, when the front end begins to lift off the ground and you feel like you might die making a fast maneuver in traffic. Short wheelbase and citation suspension design is for the crows. I'd crush every Fiero in existence before making a statement like you just did, and I've been to the shows.
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11:22 AM
L67 Member
Posts: 1792 From: Winston Salem, NC Registered: Jun 2010
There are low 9 second C6's. You will never make a low 9 second pass, ever. You will also never have a smoking girl in your passenger seat either. Or be taken seriously by anyone. Unlike Johnny, you actually think you're cool because you drive a Fiero. But every time you pull the go-pro out, you can see the kind of people who are hanging around you; kneck beards with nothing better to do.
Originally posted by L67: My state moto is "Esse Quam Videri" - To be, rather than to seem.
FYI "Esse quam videri' is found in Marcus Tullius Cicero's (January 3, 106 BC – December 7, 43 BC) essay on FRIENDSHIP .... nothing in that motto about drooling over fast cars.... or bondo
Originally posted by L67: Your car takes shitbox to whole new dimension. You don't even have a trunk wall, never mind a strut tower brace. Your car is the epitome of **** . You're lucky you haven't nosed into a wall driving your rickety little box down the strip at 130mph. A bone stock new Vette will just about run you, never mind taking a corner. Running the quarter is the only thing your car will do. There are low 9 second C6's. You will never make a low 9 second pass, ever. You will also never have a smoking girl in your passenger seat either. Or be taken seriously by anyone. Unlike Johnny, you actually think you're cool because you drive a Fiero. But every time you pull the go-pro out, you can see the kind of people who are hanging around you; kneck beards with nothing better to do.
You are a very frustrated person I can see.... It looks like you are looking for members to NEG the the hell out of ya !!! I really dont get why you do this... most of us will fall into your trap ...and look like idiots trying to understand you childish fits ... you are really a little man my friend ..... a severe psycho intervention should be your next stop..... hope you get well because you are a good mechanic ... LOUSY on makin friends though....
[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 01-14-2012).]
You are right ... enough said ... I did the 1/4 mile with my Widow but no time stamp ... I was told in the 12s by the organisers but nothing printed .. I will be in Pont Rouge this summer so I should have written proof of this... had my friends racing slicks on her...talk about traction !!! Will post results this summer ....
[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 01-14-2012).]
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12:13 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
LIKE I SAID ..nothing printed organisers had stop watches ...... will see this summer ...even if I get high 18s this summer dont give a sh!t.... at least I will be sure.
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12:42 PM
nitroheadz28 Member
Posts: 4774 From: Brooklyn, NY Registered: Mar 2010
You boys keep using terms like "shitbox", etc to describe Fieros. I have seen Fieros at the meets to die for and NOBODY would look at them and see "shitboxes". Madcurl's stuff is to die for, and more than a few really talented builders have cars to slobber over. Also, those newer cars with 300 HP V6 power have not proven they are more reliable than a 3800 in any form. At a thousand pounds heavier they are not any faster than a bone stock 3800SC. Top speed stabilty, I'll give you that, but that's an idiots game to begin with. There is zero use for 180 MPH in a street car.
I think L67 covered that pretty well.. Underneath all that work, its still a Fiero. The only reason I used that term is cause I'm comparing it to modern vehicles.. Is a 69 Camaro a sh*tbox by todays standards? Hell yeah, doesn't handle worth a crap, a road hazard to operate on public roads, basically a boat on wheels. The difference between our cars is that just like that Camaro, they're old tech and whatnot- but hold none of that classic/ historic value. You have to be objective and look at our vehicles like the clueless people walking the streets who're all wrapped up in their Acuras/ Infitinitis/ Bimmers and Benzes.
Like I said, one major attribute of this car that I enjoy is the timeless styling. I've had people who wouldn't know how to change a tire let alone tell the difference between a V12 and a straight 4 come up to me and comment on how interesting my vehicle is. Everyone that I've ever taken for a ride has commented how fun and interesting the driving experience is.
Its the experience of owning the car that all that matters. Anyways its pretty obvious that there aren't any respectable times posted by V8 guys, so the thread will just descend to a typical 3800 vs V8 deal now
[This message has been edited by nitroheadz28 (edited 01-14-2012).]
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01:40 PM
AkursedX Member
Posts: 2890 From: Lackawanna NY Registered: Aug 2000
Time Tom. Opportunity costs. It takes time to build a car. No less than a year to build an 11 second Fiero; fabrication, tuning, run time, and testing. You can buy a C6 Corvette that will run 10's with a pair of slicks. You can buy the Corvette in a day, beat the **** out of it, and it'll last, someone's already done all of legwork and fixed all of the problems. It has a plethora of support; if something breaks, you go to the store and buy another part that's been mass manufactured, the repair procedure is well documented, and the repair itself is easy because the platform was designed to be serviceable. Then when you're done, the vehicle has a high resale value, you get a great deal back out of what you put in. The Fiero has none of these on its side, it's an uphill battle to design a race car out of a commuter car that was built in a time when quality control was a fragment of what it is now.
You can't out build a manufacturer or cheat time, you can chase your tail forever, but you'll never surmount the pros. You say the Fiero is cheap to modify, but you're only talking about initial purchase price. Spend a year building the car, and then it isn't worth anything. Akursed getting what he did for his turbo 3800 is a perfect example. You can pick up a C5 for $15k. It's going to be competitive with a 3800 powered Fiero, out handle every Fiero in existance, and do it with class and essence. Cam or swap the LS engine and it'll run with FieroX. That's just an example.
Why do you own a Fiero? What kind of a hobby is one that saps your resources? Why are you fascinated? Serious questions.
I never owned and modded a Fiero with the intention of making a profit. I sold my Fiero for $7500 and when I added up the receipts, it was a $28000 car including purchase price, parts and labor. And I still have other receipts for parts and work that were removed or changed that's probably another 10k. Yeah, I spent some serious cash on my Fiero, but I have a good job and a fair amount of disposable income that I could spend on my *hobby*. I really don't regret putting that kind of cash into it as it was a great learning experience and a lot of fun.
I sold my Fiero for a few reasons, but the reason that relates most to the quoted post was that I realized that my Fiero will NEVER be what I wanted it to be in regards to a combination of handling, ride/noise quality, power, and reliability. I realized that if I was going to carry on with my car, that things like custom aluminum knuckles, injecting foam into various places, new paint and body mods, and a manual transmission were going to cost me a lot of money and time and I still probably wouldn't have what I wanted. I decided it was time to move on and move into something more modern and more suited to my current wants and needs.
You can do a lot of things with/to a Fiero especially if you are handy and an innovative DIY'er. But there a still limitations in the Fiero that will always hold it back in comparison to modern sports-cars unless you spend some serious time and cash redesigning things. It's relatively easy to make a Fiero as fast as a used C5 'vette. If speed is the only thing that matters to you, the Fiero with an engine swap is a pretty good choice. Now try to make that same Fiero handle as well, and share the same ride quality as the 'vette. Also, try to make the Fiero's interior as quiet at 70mph as the 'vette. Oh and try doing that with having all the emission equipment hooked up. All of a sudden, saving up for a used 'vette doesn't seem like a bad idea.
Wow, this thread went in a TOTALLY unpredictable direction Well, people here definitely don't disappoint. I don't understand why people ONLY see speed as the definition of performance. I'd still like to see someone completely convert a Fiero over using newer components. I know it would cost more than it would be worth, but imagine a Feiro with a new Camaro / Corvette drivetrain (what can be used), suspension, braking, and even electronics. I think that would be pretty badass.
Anyway back to the show
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01:49 PM
mptighe Member
Posts: 3321 From: Houston, TX Registered: Aug 2009
Originally posted by AkursedX: I sold my Fiero for $7500 and when I added up the receipts, it was a $28000 car including purchase price, parts and labor.
Wow, this thread went in a TOTALLY unpredictable direction Well, people here definitely don't disappoint. I don't understand why people ONLY see speed as the definition of performance. I'd still like to see someone completely convert a Fiero over using newer components. I know it would cost more than it would be worth, but imagine a Feiro with a new Camaro / Corvette drivetrain (what can be used), suspension, braking, and even electronics. I think that would be pretty badass.
Speaking of putting non-standard motors in Fieros.... Your Fiero could run 10.46 at 128mph like mine.... Here is how it sounds crossing the 1/4 mile line at 128mph.... http://www.youtube.com/dcplasmaracing
Speaking of putting non-standard motors in Fieros.... Your Fiero could run 10.46 at 128mph like mine.... Here is how it sounds crossing the 1/4 mile line at 128mph.... http://www.youtube.com/dcplasmaracing
Speaking of putting non-standard motors in Fieros.... Your Fiero could run 10.46 at 128mph like mine.... Here is how it sounds crossing the 1/4 mile line at 128mph.... http://www.youtube.com/dcplasmaracing
We make 800 battery HP and 1500ft lbs torque run with no transmission only a gear vendors Overdrive.
Metric
We could run those times but that is about all that could be done with the car....Not a car that I see going on long cruises at the events or traveling long distance to get to any events....Don't get me wrong like I said in the 1/4 Thread that is hauling the mail and the electric cars are not joke but that would be about all the car would be good for....Or can it go long distance between charges?
[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 01-14-2012).]
Built 3800 VS built v8. The v8 was a torque monster that would bash your head against the back glass. The best way I can describe the 3800 is WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE hey look, were doing 140! I guess you could call the 3800 more "refined" power meaning smoother all the way through? I dunno. Both were fun to ride in.
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10:44 PM
Jan 15th, 2012
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Originally posted by MstangsBware: J/K with you of course....Would be nice to see one of those Fieros at an event this year...I mean it has been some time you know..........
Also the 11' Camaros are slow over weight pigs....Now the new 5.0 Mustangs aint no joke.........Puts the Camaro to shame.....
You might see me at some shows this year...
I guess many folks here are not aware of the 2012 ZL1 Camaro, but it's has a 580-horsepower, 556 lb.-ft. of torque, 6.2-liter supercharged V8 engine. It will blow away any Mustang yet created, and would probably blow away the base Corvette. It's barely street legal. Yes I would take that over any Fiero.
guess you haven't heard about the new Mustang Cobra coming out next year....650 HP 200mph. This argument is stupid. No matter what you have SOMEONE OR SOMETHING is going to be faster then you.
Well, people here definitely don't disappoint. I don't understand why people ONLY see speed as the definition of performance. I'd still like to see someone completely convert a Fiero over using newer components. I know it would cost more than it would be worth, but imagine a Feiro with a new Camaro / Corvette drivetrain (what can be used), suspension, braking, and even electronics. I think that would be pretty badass. 
