I still do not understand these 3800 vs V8 arguments. We can all agree that the 3800 rules IN A FIERO, in a quarter mile. If I want a track car, I'd get a Camaro or something. Then your 3800 starts to unravel. There are many platforms where V8 trumps 3800, so why all the grandstanding on the V6 ? It's not like the SBC and it's successors are some kind of inferior. Larry Lawson, who should know, puts the emphasis on chassis setup. I can't recall a single street challenge in decades that was off the line, because reasonable people don't wish to abuse the drivetrains to that point. That includes my younger years on a big bore Suzuki. I think somebody spent a lot of money and broke a lot of parts getting to a 10.2 quarter mile with a 3800. In the real world of rolling starts I see no real advantage to either platform, just pure HP taking over. I have a 3800 and I like the balance. I think it would take a lot of money and aggravation to get it to run with a good V8 and do it reliably. I'd love to have a V8 Fiero, it's that money thing, I don't have it. I will drive and love my 3800 just like I did when it was a 2.8. And I'll lust after a V8 Fiero right to the end.
The Fiero is a fantastic platform to put 12's up on the board. I don't see how you could do it cheaper with any other car. Anything past 12's it gets to be a challenge. I suck at driving my car in the 1/4 mile but I love, love, love hitting it hard on the expressway. The faster I go the harder it pulls.
ok gotta ask why are the 3800 owners claiming they are better than lets say a 350? i mean from a power to weight ratio point of view does it really matter how many cyl you have? i dont know how much a 3800 sc weighs but lets say you take a 350 beings all cast iron and add the adapter plate in its prolly gonna weight quite a bit more than a 3800 sc but put out more power at the same time. if you mated them to the same type of trans why wouldnt the 350 beat the 3800 everytime? of course we are assuming you have 100% traction or at least someone who know how to launch.
im not saying either is better my first build was a 4.9 and ive been able to drive it once around the block (until i finish the exhaust) and im starting on my 3800 build, im just trying to figure out what the pissing contest is all about.
any answer is welcome as long as i get some insight into this phenomena
To answer your question, a 3800SC typically weighs around 445 lbs. A full cast iron SBC is around 525lbs. But a SBC with aliminum intake and heads (like the ZZ4) only weighs 404 lbs. The LS V-8's weigh 390 to 430 depending on which one you use.
quote
Originally posted by thismanyfieros:
take a 300hp dynoed at the wheels V8 and put it against a 300hp dynoed at the wheels 3.8sc...who wins? I think its going to be the 3.8sc..
It all comes down to weight and gearing. If both cars weigh the same, dyno the same and use the same trans. They will cross the line together. Power curves will affect where each car has its best acceleration. The V-8 with the higher torque at the low end will be faster o-60ft. The forced induction will be faster from 660 to the line, but both will be door to door at the line. You cannot change physics with a 3800. LOL
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07:45 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Not really a fair comparison.. I spent very little, broke nothing, and ran half the boost I normally do to run a 10.5 taking it easy.
So why not crank the boost back up, don't take it easy, and run faster? And reliability to me means something more than staying together for 10 seconds in a drag race.
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10:18 PM
TheRealShadowX Member
Posts: 1456 From: Milwaukee Wisconsin USA Registered: Mar 2010
The fastest Fiero is FieroX's car with a 3800 Turbo V6. I have yet to see any V8 Fiero run even close to those times. The V8's I believe are seriously over priced and over rated in a Fiero, you could build a V6 with better power to weight using less hp for more performance. The V8's your gonna have issues with the tranny setup, brakes and so on, good luck trying to get that power to hook. Most Lamborghini Replica's that are extremely expensive usually have a small block in them. Hmm I wonder why?
I guess if your looking for the sound of a small block in a midengined car a V8 is the way to go but personally Id rather have a V6 or even a 4 banger turbo any day of the week.
Originally posted by VF1Skullangel: The fastest Fiero is FieroX's car with a 3800 Turbo V6. I have yet to see any V8 Fiero run even close to those times. The V8's I believe are seriously over priced and over rated in a Fiero, you could build a V6 with better power to weight using less hp for more performance. The V8's your gonna have issues with the tranny setup, brakes and so on, good luck trying to get that power to hook. Most Lamborghini Replica's that are extremely expensive usually have a small block in them. Hmm I wonder why? I guess if your looking for the sound of a small block in a midengined car a V8 is the way to go but personally Id rather have a V6 or even a 4 banger turbo any day of the week.
Is this "V8 1/4mile times" related ??? I think this thread has gone V8 vs teh world !!
[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 01-22-2012).]
When I take my car out this year, I'm definately not posting what I do in a thread called 1/4 mile times. It's just going to upset so many cyl deprived individuals.
LOL I guess ya didnt read the post before my post... Oh well you've been riding my a$$ on everything I write about V8 are you an S.Vommitt follower??
Oh no, I did read the post before yours talking about how a 3800 Fiero is currently the fastest in a 1/4 and how a V8 will manage to break everything. The reason I asked is because you called him out for not posting something V8 1/4 mile times, so I called out your post not relating to the topic as well. Have I been riding you about everything V8 you post? A bit because I'm skeptic of some things you've posted. Am I a Shaun Hammit follower? Not anymore than I follow any one else's post here, I just read everything, I don't care who posted it.
Edit: Made a typo.
[This message has been edited by Fiero_Fan_88 (edited 01-22-2012).]
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07:25 PM
TheRealShadowX Member
Posts: 1456 From: Milwaukee Wisconsin USA Registered: Mar 2010
When I take my car out this year, I'm definately not posting what I do in a thread called 1/4 mile times. It's just going to upset so many cyl deprived individuals.
I wouldn't post a 14.5 sec 1/4 mile time with a rumbley modded V8 either......( two snaps in a circle)
Now, I am just talkin smack and BS'in around so don't get all Rambo on me.
The fastest Fiero is FieroX's car with a 3800 Turbo V6. I have yet to see any V8 Fiero run even close to those times. The V8's I believe are seriously over priced and over rated in a Fiero, you could build a V6 with better power to weight using less hp for more performance. The V8's your gonna have issues with the tranny setup, brakes and so on, good luck trying to get that power to hook. Most Lamborghini Replica's that are extremely expensive usually have a small block in them. Hmm I wonder why?
I guess if your looking for the sound of a small block in a midengined car a V8 is the way to go but personally Id rather have a V6 or even a 4 banger turbo any day of the week.
Considering there was a v8 fiero to run WELL within similar times to mr "fierox", I would say you are pretty far off here.
The singular and only problem with the typical V8 swap is the fact that it is just plain hard to do it cheap/easy... and that with ANY fiero swapped, stock, fast, slow, body modded or not... It is just VERY hard to not lose your ass doing work on them compared to any other platform out there. The 3800 swap holds a very good value before and after you do the swap as the car is a great performing car on all levels, appeals to a wide range of buyers, etc.
Anyway... all this talk of 1/4 mile times really does piss me off... When I was racing this year I was fairly convinced nobody on here gave a crap about a 9 second fiero and I never went out to get my slip.
Anyway... all this talk of 1/4 mile times really does piss me off... When I was racing this year I was fairly convinced nobody on here gave a crap about a 9 second fiero and I never went out to get my slip.
Pissed off about what? Do you need one of us to come up there and kick you in the a$$ to get you to the track? Frankly I'm getting tired about all of your talk about how fast your car is. Kind of reminiscent of the time you challenged all V8 owners and then pussed out.
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11:12 PM
Jan 24th, 2012
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
V8 1/4 mile times! I would suggest that V8 haters post their opinions on some other thread. There are a lot of engines that work really good in Fieros. Personally I feel no need what so ever to hammer someone elses choice, but being an owner of a few Aluminum V8 Fieros, I do get annoyed with all of the unecessary negative comments directed at V8s. Let's get back on topic.
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 01-24-2012).]
The fastest Fiero is FieroX's car with a 3800 Turbo V6. I have yet to see any V8 Fiero run even close to those times. The V8's I believe are seriously over priced and over rated in a Fiero, you could build a V6 with better power to weight using less hp for more performance. The V8's your gonna have issues with the tranny setup, brakes and so on, good luck trying to get that power to hook. Most Lamborghini Replica's that are extremely expensive usually have a small block in them. Hmm I wonder why?
I guess if your looking for the sound of a small block in a midengined car a V8 is the way to go but personally Id rather have a V6 or even a 4 banger turbo any day of the week.
Actually the fastest verified Fiero was the Rod Shops Fiero made back in 1986 that ran a confirmed 9.8 seconds with a SD4 race engine. Darkhorizon already covered a V-8 that went about as fast as FieroX's car. (and that was 16 years ago)
Huh? less horsepower for more performance?? Considering an LS series or ZZ4 SBC weigh less than a 3800SC and about the same for a N/A 3800, Please tell use how you are going to get a better power to weight ratio with less horsepower???
What is the difference between a 300hp V-8 and a 300hp V-6 hooking up power to the ground? What is the difference between a 300hp V-8 and a 300hp V-6 pushing power thru the same transaxle? As for brakes, What does braking have to do with the number of cylinders or how much horsepower an engine has?
Actually the fastest verified Fiero was the Rod Shops Fiero made back in 1986 that ran a confirmed 9.8 seconds with a SD4 race engine. Darkhorizon already covered a V-8 that went about as fast as FieroX's car. (and that was 16 years ago)
Huh? less horsepower for more performance?? Considering an LS series or ZZ4 SBC weigh less than a 3800SC and about the same for a N/A 3800, Please tell use how you are going to get a better power to weight ratio with less horsepower???
What is the difference between a 300hp V-8 and a 300hp V-6 hooking up power to the ground? What is the difference between a 300hp V-8 and a 300hp V-6 pushing power thru the same transaxle? As for brakes, What does braking have to do with the number of cylinders or how much horsepower an engine has?
simple, torque differences
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07:32 AM
Tony Kania Member
Posts: 20794 From: The Inland Northwest Registered: Dec 2008
No dog in this fight. I am running a 3.1 stroker that won't topple any strong runners.
Dratts does have some impressive Fieros. Fieroking did a turboed LS4 for him last year, and numbers should follow sometime soon. They have access to a dyno.
Fun thread to read, and best to both worlds,
Tony
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10:11 AM
Tony Kania Member
Posts: 20794 From: The Inland Northwest Registered: Dec 2008
Note: I have included my time slip along with the pics for all you NON-BELIEVERS.
10.308 (picture of slip didn't transfer)
The was driven daily for 2 years with a stock 350 CI Chevy small block, in the mean time I was starting to get interested in drag racing once again. )) After two divorces later I could now afford the money to go racing again. )
Anyone know what happened to this car?
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10:46 AM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
No dog in this fight. I am running a 3.1 stroker that won't topple any strong runners.
Dratts does have some impressive Fieros. Fieroking did a turboed LS4 for him last year, and numbers should follow sometime soon. They have access to a dyno.
Fun thread to read, and best to both worlds,
Tony
. I've got a lot more miles in Fieros with V6s in them than V8s and they've been good times. My first Fiero was an 88 four cylinder and it was fun too. I've had stock body Fieros and rebodied Fieros. I like em all. My most powerful Fiero is also the heaviest. It weighs 3400 lbs with 1/2 tank of gas so I won't be setting any records with it when I finally get it to the strip. The other two V8s are N*s. One NA and one boosted. 300 hp and probably 400 hp. Neither of those will set a record either, but as most of you know any engine with 300 hp is way more than adequate in a Fiero and a ton of fun. You will never hear me putting down someone elses Fiero. We all have our own tastes and agendas and the Fiero opens the door for all of us. I have been a little upset about some of the posts regarding V8s and V6s because they seem to get a bit negative, but I don't want to dwell on it. I respect the 3800sc and I appreciate the help I've had from guys with those guys. We all are at the point where it's just as big a deal getting the hp to the ground as it is getting it out of the engine. This thread is about V8s. I promise not to go on Anyones V6 thread and bash them. If I ever have, I want to apologize right now.
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11:15 AM
Xyster Member
Posts: 1444 From: Great Falls MT Registered: Apr 2011
Actually the fastest verified Fiero was the Rod Shops Fiero made back in 1986 that ran a confirmed 9.8 seconds with a SD4 race engine. Darkhorizon already covered a V-8 that went about as fast as FieroX's car. (and that was 16 years ago)
Huh? less horsepower for more performance?? Considering an LS series or ZZ4 SBC weigh less than a 3800SC and about the same for a N/A 3800, Please tell use how you are going to get a better power to weight ratio with less horsepower???
What is the difference between a 300hp V-8 and a 300hp V-6 hooking up power to the ground? What is the difference between a 300hp V-8 and a 300hp V-6 pushing power thru the same transaxle? As for brakes, What does braking have to do with the number of cylinders or how much horsepower an engine has?
As for the last three questions, the difference in all three would be the weight of the engine. But like you said, V8's can weigh the same or less then a 3800SC, just depends which one you have/install.
LOL
)
