I still haven't heard from B&B. I have a duct tape windshield header for now. I started redoing the exhaust yesterday because it was just too loud. I'm using a dynomax crossflow muffler. I have it mocked up and it seems a lot quieter. I'll put up some pics soon. The a-pillars are not structural members. I may bring the car to lincoln square in chicago for the car show on sunday.
[This message has been edited by Crow (edited 08-12-2004).]
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05:48 AM
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
anyone want to post a couple of variants I drew up (badly in Paint) of some mods to those hoops? I personally would do something to try to at least make the shape blend a bit with the curves of the body panels where they roll. A couple of filler pieces and some grounding would take those to the next level. Another idea to soften and blend them with body lines might be to have them upholstered with a wee bit of padding under the material. Could use a matching material to the seats.
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07:03 AM
LZeitgeist Member
Posts: 5662 From: Raleigh, NC, U.S.A. Registered: Dec 2000
So far I know of no one who has had to reinforce their windshield when converting a Fiero into a convertible or targa top.
I've been wondering about this - also been looking for another frame reinforcement other than an X-frame.. i don't want to lose any ground clearance and targa is growing on me
anyone want to post a couple of variants I drew up (badly in Paint) of some mods to those hoops? I personally would do something to try to at least make the shape blend a bit with the curves of the body panels where they roll. A couple of filler pieces and some grounding would take those to the next level. Another idea to soften and blend them with body lines might be to have them upholstered with a wee bit of padding under the material. Could use a matching material to the seats.
Originally posted by Songman: Pat, when will we be seeing those pictures of your new frame reinforcements? John says it is as close to perfect as he has ever seen.
Here's a couple showing the gist of it...
I'll post more pics after I find time to upload everything and post a build thread.
To be honest, a description of what was done will probably help you more than the pics I was able to take would. (My good camera was in the trunk of the car, and the car was already up on the lift and being worked on, so all I had to take pics with was the camera on my cellphone.)
1"x1-1/2" rectangular steel tubing (sorry, I don't know what wall thickness) was welded in a long straight piece from the front crossmember back under/against the floorpan directly towards the forward engine cradle mounting points. A piece was added to the end of this to go up the firewall to attach to the frame rail at the cradle mounting point. Same was done on other side of car.
Then an 'X' was created, starting about 6" back from the front of the first pieces, back to about 18" from the rear end of the first pieces. This created a crossover point near the front end of the fuel tank, which allowed the tank to be removed with rearward movement if needed.
Finally, a crossbar was created with 1"x1" square tubular steel and bolted across the back ends of the first two pieces. This piece goes across forward of the back end of the fuel tank and would have to be removed for the fuel tank to be taken out, which is why it was bolted - everything else above was permanently welded.
------------------ Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com 1988 Red Fiero Formula Convertible
[This message has been edited by LZeitgeist (edited 08-13-2004).]
I didn't really make an X-brace. I cut a 2" wide slot in the rockers and welded in 2x2 steel the entire length of the car. at the back, It ties into the upper and lower framerails, and in front it runs into the u channel at the wheel well. Thr car feels plenty stiff. I have some good pics but they are too large for PIP and I haven't had the time to post them elsewhere.
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11:08 AM
DotTC Member
Posts: 2345 From: Hamlet, North Carolina Registered: Nov 2003
I didn't really make an X-brace. I cut a 2" wide slot in the rockers and welded in 2x2 steel the entire length of the car. at the back, It ties into the upper and lower framerails, and in front it runs into the u channel at the wheel well. Thr car feels plenty stiff. I have some good pics but they are too large for PIP and I haven't had the time to post them elsewhere.
This is a more a question for LZ, does your car feel as rigid/stiff as it did before you did this? Could you tell a BIG differance in the way the car felt? Beyond the loss of weight from the top.
This question is for both you and Crow, does the car feel light or about the same?
The car feels much more rigid than before. There were a lot of squeaks and rattles before. There was extensive rust damage to the rear upper framerails and to the rocker panels just behind the front wheels. I repaired the rust damage at the same time as I welded in the reinforcements. The roll bar base also serves to stiffen the car transversely and should replace most of the side impact protection lost when the roof was cut. I mean that if I get broadsided the roll bar base should transfer the load from the backside of the door to the other side. There is a very solid sound when you close the doors.
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12:55 PM
DotTC Member
Posts: 2345 From: Hamlet, North Carolina Registered: Nov 2003
The car feels much more rigid than before. There were a lot of squeaks and rattles before. There was extensive rust damage to the rear upper framerails and to the rocker panels just behind the front wheels. I repaired the rust damage at the same time as I welded in the reinforcements. The roll bar base also serves to stiffen the car transversely and should replace most of the side impact protection lost when the roof was cut. I mean that if I get broadsided the roll bar base should transfer the load from the backside of the door to the other side. There is a very solid sound when you close the doors.
This is something I utilmately wanna do to my 88. Was worried about losing the ability to drive it to the very limits like I remember before i parked the car. But it sounds like it'd be a more sound car.
inside the rockers.. i was thinking of using some 1.5"-2" box the length but in the place of the coolant tubes - then weld on end caps with the coolant tube fittings on the ends so they become structural coolant tubes... was also considering some floor pan reinforcement to another set of lengthwise spars next tot he gas tank - but if thats not necessary then i'm all set to do my targa top
This is a more a question for LZ, does your car feel as rigid/stiff as it did before you did this? Could you tell a BIG differance in the way the car felt? Beyond the loss of weight from the top.
This question is for both you and Crow, does the car feel light or about the same?
As far as the weight goes, I think it's the same now as it was before. Once you subract the roof/sheetmetal/sunroof/rear glass and add in the underframing steel/convertible mechanism/etc. - it's about the same. I haven't weighed it before and after, but I sort of wish I had, just out of curiosity.
As far as the rigidity, my car was actually done in two steps - first, just the two initial long reinforcements were put in. Then the top was cut off and the kit installed. There was virtually no sag whatsoever - I haven't had any problems with the doors popping open or things like that - but there was definitely a degree of torsion along the longitudinal axis.
After I went back and had the cross-bracing added in, the difference was immediately noticeable - it felt to me like the suspension was now working the same as it was before during cornering, going over bumps, etc.
After everything was done, I took Formula88 for a ride in it - he has a Formula exactly like mine was before the conversion. To both of us, my car felt just as rigid as his, and I had no further qualms about the car performing exactly as it did before the conversion.
There's a 90-degree right turn at a 'T' intersection a couple blocks from where I live, and I more often than not take that corner tight and fast - the pavement drops a bit next to the curb, and it's perfect to snug a rear wheel into that low spot and slingshot around that corner at 35mph+. I do this on nearly a daily basis, because it's between work and home for me, which is less than 5 miles apart.
Working that corner with the car the way it is now feels just as secure and comfortable as it ever did to me, and I've been going around that corner for almost three years now. (I love going around it like that, never even hitting the brakes, just downshifting at the proper time, when somebody who thinks they've got something to prove wants to crawl up my butt. One guy in a Cavalier even ended up climbing the slightly-sloped curb on the opposite side of the two-lane (well, four lanes, two each way, with a landscaped island in between) street the corner feeds into - that was fun to see in my side-view mirror. )
------------------ Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com 1988 Red Fiero Formula Convertible
Just read through this thread -- awesome job, especially the taillights!!!!!
Can you provide a little buildup info on them? I'm doing something very similar on my GT -- wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing info on how you made them?
thx!!
-jeff d Fort Worth, TX 198? Fiero GT/V8 1973 TVR 2500M
I'm almost finished with the exhaust. I still have to final weld it. I drove it and the noise level is not bad The U bend really got hot when I drove it. I hate the smell of new exhaust parts. I always think something is burning but it is oil on the pipes from the factory...I hope. I'll take a couple more pics when I take the taillight out. I have to put in another socket for the pontiac lights. (autozone only had three last time and I accidently threw the old harness away when I thought I was going to use the pisa housings.) but here is a couple more of the taillights.
[This message has been edited by Crow (edited 08-13-2004).]
so how well does this work? i am building a totaly custom hardtop convertible out of my old 85 2m4.
------------------ 1985 Pontiac Fiero 2.5 SE, 219,500 currently going under the knife to become a chopped hard top custom convertible, watch for the build up thread more pics of my 85 can be found here 1987 Pontiac Fiero GT, 140,000 miles! Cat less, decklid window, silver guages. 1987 Pontiac Fiero 2.8 SE, 54,000 miles :( parts car RIP
Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
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06:11 PM
PFF
System Bot
Aug 29th, 2004
Standard Member
Posts: 4667 From: St. Cloud, MN Registered: Apr 99
Just wanna pop in and say, your roadster is awesome! If I had the balls(or skills), I'd cut the top off my coupe and lay the windshield back a few degrees... but I'll leave that to guys like you. Again, great job.
I've been wondering about this - also been looking for another frame reinforcement other than an X-frame.. i don't want to lose any ground clearance and targa is growing on me
Crow, I think the work you've done on your car is amazing! That being said, I have to side with the people that don't like the roll hoops. Everything else on the car looks as though it came from the factory that way...but IMHO, the roll hoops look "homebuilt". Had you ever considered using something like a Mustang lightbar?
I don't know if the actual Mustang lightbar would work, depending upon the width of it, etc. To me, it would have flowed nicely, though, with the rest of the lines of the car, and your raised rear spoiler. Just throwing that out for your consideration. I think the rest of the car is just amazing, though..
)
