quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: How incredibly surprising and ironic to see the mastermind behind 2/3's of #20's design (wide body, chop top, V8) take the wind out of Madcurl's sails. Bravo Archie.

Orrrr, it could be my chance to tell off those that would like to bash Unions.

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 10-21-2012).]

quote Originally posted by slicknick: Other than chassis stuff, what does the stock Fiero crowd benefit from kit crowd?

- Held Motorsports suspension parts and upgraded cradle assemblies
- Various interior swaps like what PISA offers
- Brake upgrades (most of the first ones were done for kits)
- Understanding the dynamics of Fiero convertibles (kit builders had sorted out cutting up Fieros as many kits require cuts, as opposed to most aftermarket modifiers whom didn't quite understand the correct way to brace cut up Fieros)
- Aftermarket body pieces (most of the Ferrari style fronts and sides are results of single pieces of kits)

The list can go on and on

quote Originally posted by Fiero84Freak: - Held Motorsports suspension parts and upgraded cradle assemblies - Various interior swaps like what PISA offers - Brake upgrades (most of the first ones were done for kits) - Understanding the dynamics of Fiero convertibles (kit builders had sorted out cutting up Fieros as many kits require cuts, as opposed to most aftermarket modifiers whom didn't quite understand the correct way to brace cut up Fieros) - Aftermarket body pieces (most of the Ferrari style fronts and sides are results of single pieces of kits) The list can go on and on

None of which benefit the stock Fiero crowd. Except maybe brake parts. But even then we'd prolly just see less hacks.

Automoda sorted out cutting up Fieros for Pontiac. I would trust their factory-backed Engineering far more than some kit builder.

As for the rest of the stuff like fiberglass fronts and interiors? That's up to personal opinion, but it's my belief Pontiac made a perfectly serviceable car that can look good without trying to be something that its not.

It would warm my heart to see someone repro an 88 coupe front bumper over some Ferrari piece.

[This message has been edited by slicknick (edited 10-21-2012).]

quote Originally posted by slicknick: None of which benefit the stock Fiero crowd. Except maybe brake parts. But even then we'd prolly just see less hacks. Automoda sorted out cutting up Fieros for Pontiac. I would trust their factory-backed Engineering far more than some kit builder. As for the rest of the stuff like fiberglass fronts and interiors? That's up to personal opinion, but it's my belief Pontiac made a perfectly serviceable car that can look good without trying to be something that its not. It would warm my heart to see someone repro an 88 coupe front bumper over some Ferrari piece.

You are entitled to your opinion.

However, Fred, the guy who was Automoda didn't have factory backed engineering.

All of his work was done out of a one car garage behind his house in Cicero, IL.

As far as stock Fieros, I don't think anything in this thread is about stock Fieros.

This thread as of late has been all about Kit car/rebodied Fieros vs Customized Fieros.

And my point was you would never have the latter without first having the former.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: As far as stock Fieros, I don't think anything in this thread is about stock Fieros. This thread as of late has been all about Kit car/rebodied Fieros vs Customized Fieros. And my point was you would never have the latter without first having the former. Archie

That was my whole point as well, regardless.
I think it's foolish to assume Fiero support would have died without the kit car scene. I mean, whatever lets you sleep at night, but people like Fieros and would have done things with them whether it was a good kit platform or not. There are so many other plain jane platforms out there with a strong community that show that this is the more likely scenario.

quote Originally posted by slicknick: I think it's foolish to assume Fiero support would have died without the kit car scene.

The short-sightedness of this point of view is that the number of bone stock Fieros at this stage is probably significantly smaller than the number that have been modified to one extent or another. Without the interest generated in the Fiero platform by the kit car crowd and the "fiberglass hacks", I sincerely doubt that there would be anywhere near the number of Fiero's on the road as there are today. Half the reason there is enough demand for reproduction Fiero parts to be a viable business is because a large number of people saw that they could convert their unwanted Fiero into something more desireable rather than simply dropping it off at the junkyard. The kit car market improved the demand significantly for the Fiero. Whether that demand was for the Fiero itself or just for the chassis is irrelevent.

quote Originally posted by slicknick: It would warm my heart to see someone repro an 88 coupe front bumper over some Ferrari piece.

With all due respect, grab some fiberglass, make a mold, and start producing them yourself instead of waiting for someone to do the work for you. You might realize how hard the pioneering "fiberglass hacks" worked to keep the interest in Fieros alive.

quote Originally posted by slicknick: That was my whole point as well, regardless. I think it's foolish to assume Fiero support would have died without the kit car scene. I mean, whatever lets you sleep at night, but people like Fieros and would have done things with them whether it was a good kit platform or not. There are so many other plain jane platforms out there with a strong community that show that this is the more likely scenario.

I don't know how many years you've been around Fieros but I've been into them since 1982 when the Fiero & it's platform was announced. I felt then that with the Space Frame, Mid Engine, 4 wheel disc brakes & non structural body panels that the Fiero would be the kit car platform of the future & would replace the VW as such.

While some of the chassis parts are said to have come off the shelf, the Space frame didn't. It was unique to the Fiero.

I was there in the beginning & I remember how the Fiero chassis & the kit car industry both flourished together because each of them happened when & how they did.

The Kit car industry needed a new donor car of the future & the venders who serviced the needs of the Kit car industry back then are the key to wide following the Fiero has today.

Sure every old car no matter how good or bad has some kind of following. But name me one 1980's economy car that will attract people who will spend tens of Thousands of Dollars to upgrade them into something special.

By the way, I sleep just fine.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: Think about it for a minute, if it wasn't for Unions...... There would be no standardized 40 hour work week. No overtime for more than 40 hours. No child labor laws No paid Holidays No paid vacations No laws protecting workers rights & health No company supplied health care And many more benefits that even non-union employees benefit from today. None of these benefits were given to workers by the employers out of the generosity of their hearts. Each benefit was brought about by the pressure put on, to make life better, by Unions. Archie

I disagree with you as always. You have no proof to your claim. You are just full of Speculation of what it could be like. It could be better today than it is.

All GM cars could be still built in the USA without UNION MOB BOSSES holding companies hostage. I don’t blame them for leaving the country if I was told I had to pay workers $50.00 an hour to screw on lug nuts I would shut down and go elsewhere also.

Laws that force workers to join unions treat millions of diverse people, most of whom want very different things, as undifferentiated collectives. That means that good workers get punished. Union culture slows us down. Look at the California cities going bankrupt from having to deal with unions.

In a real free market, because workers have choices. Employers have an incentive to maintain a good relationship with employees – one that keeps them reasonably loyal – because workers can quit and go work for a rival. In a union world this cannot happen.


Union rules hurt workers because they stifle growth by making companies less flexible.

Unions eventually hurt union workers because unionized company’s atrophy. Non-union Toyota grew, while GM shrank. JetBlue Airlines blossomed, while unionized TWA and Pan Am went out of business. Unions “protect” workers all the way to the unemployment line.

I could go on and on but all anyone has to do is look at the at will states like Texas you have 4% unemployment here and we are growing more every day while the states with unions are well I don’t have to say it we all know how they are doing.

Here's a couple of questions. What type of Fieros are supporting the majority of the Fiero venders today? At Fiero shows what are the types of cars represented there, replicas or modified Fieros? Giving that a large majority of replicants have a duke or the 2.8 engine in the back isn't a major chunk of pocket money for kit kar companies.
If anything the replica companies are only supporting the fiberglass industry and maybe suspensions, but still the majority of Fiero owners make up the bulk of the suspension upgrades, engine swaps, and brakes.

quote Originally posted by slicknick: None of which benefit the stock Fiero crowd. Except maybe brake parts. But even then we'd prolly just see less hacks. Automoda sorted out cutting up Fieros for Pontiac. I would trust their factory-backed Engineering far more than some kit builder. As for the rest of the stuff like fiberglass fronts and interiors? That's up to personal opinion, but it's my belief Pontiac made a perfectly serviceable car that can look good without trying to be something that its not. It would warm my heart to see someone repro an 88 coupe front bumper over some Ferrari piece.

Yeah I actually have to agree with Archie on his post in response to yours (not speaking about the whole Union-thingy, but in Fieros in general).

If you have only been into Fieros for maybe ten years or so and weren't around them in the 80s then it's difficult for individuals to understand particular aspects of the Fiero history. One in particular is convertible Fieros. Most ALL Fiero convertible offers have been really bad. REALLY bad. Even Automoda. The issue - as Archie pointed out - is convertible Fieros were built working off of what was already an established platform, cutting into a frame that would have to essentially retain the same or similar structural integrity as a 'stock' Fiero to work. While one would think that this should be quite easy to modify, in actuality this was VERY difficult to get right. The primary reasons where because individuals did not understand the true means by which to properly secure something like the single stamped design Fiero space frame from twisting. Most people simply applied U bars along the sides of the car and an X brace, which do work. However, PROPER reinforcement of the Fiero chassis when modified for a convertible actually requires additional strengthening around areas such as the gas tank tunnel and at the front and rear bulk heads. All putting a U and an X brace does for a Fiero chassis is eventually tie two twisting points together - similar to those that think throwing on a strut tower brace from strut to strut is going to somehow magically stiffen their vehicle.

Another major issue you will see with convertible Fieros is a good deal of them didn't get "finished". That is - after the primary conversions were done they had issues such as being turned into permanent roadsters or had shells for the top but weren't completed. Thus, these convertibles weren't driven with the frequency of "normally" driven Fieros to see excessively high mileage. Thus further, why may issues with twisting frames and improper bracing issues do not appear in a good amount of cars.

Not to say that simple bracing doesn't work. I know there's a member here (I apologize as I have forgotten whom it is. Shame on me...) that has a white bumper pad convertible that has a good amount of mileage on it (I think way over a quarter of a million). A lot of it too is going to be dependent on whom did/does the conversion and in what manner.

And the point that I'm eventually getting to is kit builders - even in the 80's - understood the proper means by which to cut up Fieros. For those of you that have never worked on a Countach or Diablo kit car, ALL of them require you to cut the roof, even the non-stretch kits (except PISA's Artero and EuroWorks Mirage X, which EuroWorks no longer offers). I think many people get seriously confused because they see "non-stretch" and think no chassis modifications are required. What you have to do is remove the top of the car, and install what is essentially a tube roof setup to replace the stock bits of the chassis. If you simply try to lay a Countach or Diablo kit body over a stock roof Fiero it's going to sit ridiculously high up. Kit cars builders quite early on devised and figured out all sorts of means by which to ensure the chassis wouldn't see flexing and/or would be properly braced at all times. Remember also as well that many quality kits would see a stretch would see further bracing for the stretch itself.

All of this knowledge is quite easy to locate, but the knowledge is in a consortium for the replica and kit car world. Not much knowledge exists in this same consortium for convertibles, primarily due to most being aforementioned 'hack' jobs. Kit builders needed this sort of knowledge though because the replica and kit car world used to be a seriously brutal world. A great many, MANY, kit cars came and went and are still around in some form. Even Archie himself is subjected to such issues in the kit car world. Not to put him on the spot, but ask Archie (or he'll likely respond here) how many of those GT40 replicas he makes he has sold? He has more than the knowledge needed to construct the cars, due to him having worked on all the major details. Kit building for a business is quite a difficult endeavor, but before one can even get kits underway you ABSOLUTELY have to get demos built and presentable. EuroWorks has done this, Archie did this with his chop tops, mirads of other kit builders did it. Kit builders had to work out these details though to ensure what they were putting out actually worked. Most convertible builders built what would work in the need of the moment. Automoda potentially being an exception, but not to the point where such a product was quite ready for real serious "production," hence why even among Automoda cars themselves there are varying degrees of the build.

The kit car world - like it or not - has done a tremendous amount for the Fiero image, both good and bad. However, I have to say that most of this image - both on the good and bad side - was dependent on kit cars themselves. With the engine fire reputation and all-around poor quality 80's build that Fieros carry, if not for kit cars people likely wouldn't have given two flips about a Fiero. It would have fallen into a very niche' market that essentially would have seen NO aftermarket. People would have either really liked, or really hated the car. Nevermind the fact that there is very little in the realm of aftermarket as it is, but really if not for the kit car market the Fiero would have essentially faded into obscurity as being just a chalk mark of failures on GM's part. Believe me, I love Fieros and love and have loved mine - and I would likely accept such a fate had Fieros been categorized as such - but the populace at large? No way. It may be bad that Fieros are known as bastardizations for kit cars, but at least they're known for something. At least with what we have that is available, individuals whom are or may particularly be interested in Fieros can at least be interested in varying degrees, rather than simply outright hate or love for the car.

And at least with kit cars and replicas, individuals had and still to a degree have a drive to keep some sort of aftermarket aflame. I can guarantee you Mr Mikes sells a tremendous amount of his seats to Ferrari replica builders, and if not for Amida most Ferrari replicas would have nowhere near the correct interior setup. With these markets then comes further spilling back into the Fiero community at large. At the end of the day, it may not be factory OEM style aftermarket, but it's at least an aftermarket.

That should all account for something. All possible thanks to replicas and kit cars. But I have to say this thread has gotten so far off track now it's crazy. The original topic was "end of kit cars" due to KIT CAR magazine going under, primarily due to the rather lower influx of Fiero-based replicas. Replicas and kit cars themselves haven't gone away. In fact, I think one very viable chassis to "look out for" in the near future will be the 1st generation Porsche Boxster. That car has already been used for a good deal of replicas, and you can find ones with body damage and minor fender bender issues for $5,000 and below. Really cheap, especially with what one is given to work with using such a chassis. I can see many future Lamborghini kit cars being built off of them, although I think Ferrari kit builders will begin to look elsewhere.

quote Originally posted by seafoodlover: That is one bad ass Diablo!! Very sleek, great job. Thumbs way up!!

Thanks!
Im hoping its going to be even better after I fix some of the areas that Im not 100% happy with....

quote Originally posted by madcurl: What type of Fieros are supporting the majority of the Fiero venders today?

Do you know something we don't? Please, spill the beans.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: At Fiero shows what are the types of cars represented there, replicas or modified Fieros?

You find what you look for. If you go to a Fiero show, you'll find Fieros. If you go to a kit car show you'll find kit cars. Just because you don't see kit cars at the shows you go to doesn't mean that they're not driving the industry, nor that they weren't the leading impetus for the modifications that are available today.

quote Originally posted by madcurl:Giving that a large majority of replicants have a duke or the 2.8 engine in the back isn't a major chunk of pocket money for kit kar companies.

First, it's hard to understand what your point is when you don't form complete sentences. Second, on what facts do you base your statement that most replicas have a duke or 2.8 engine in them? Just because that's the only type of kit car you ever post pictures of doesn't make it the truth.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: If anything the replica companies are only supporting the fiberglass industry and maybe suspensions...

The trouble with this statement is that it's very myopic. Replica companies go back further than the last ten years. Perhaps you are suggesting that modern day replica companies should somehow share their profits with the "Fiero Industry"? Perhaps you're suggesting that companies that produced and sold replicas in the past like V8 Archie only supported the fiberglass industry? Or how about Ryanne/Held that developed longitudinal engine cradles, wide track suspensions, and big brake kits driven exclusively by the replica market? One thing is for sure, it sounds like you're saying that their contributions to your "Modified Fiero" class was meaningless.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: ...but still the majority of Fiero owners make up the bulk of the suspension upgrades, engine swaps, and brakes.

The confidence in which you make your statements doesn't make them any more factual. Please, tell us how you know this. Even if it were the case, it would be foolish to think that the class of cars that you like to refer to as "Modified Fieros" (which excludes replicas and kit cars) was the impetus behind the development of most of the improvements you buy off the shelf today.

After listening to all your denigrating comments about replicas and the kitcar industry for over the past three years in this thread, it must be a bitter pill to swallow when the man who designed most of the important changes to your car, of which you are so proud, implies you wouldn't even have it if it weren't for the industry you despise so much.

quote Originally posted by Archie: If it wasn't for the products, methods & vendors that grew to support the Fiero based Kit car/rebody industry, many of these products, methods & vendors wouldn't be around today to support the Fiero customizations that you are seeing a lot of now-a-days. Respect your past & it will support your future.

(edited to attribute the last quote to Archie)

[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 10-21-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: Do you know something we don't? Please, spill the beans.

You tell me. Go look at the various build threads and report back what you see.

quote Originally posted by diabloroadster: Took a few pics of my POS Diablo Roadster "kit car" last night in N. Austin~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/31604886@N08/ Kinda a last minute kind of deal, the car hadnt been washed since last week. Im about to respray the car and install a new drivetrain after xmas, so I kinda wanted some images of the car before I start the make-over. I built this car from a box of parts, using three different Fieros, to painted, running & driving in less than 6 1/2 months, so everything is not as good as I would like it to be. BTW- These images are taken with the cheapest camera/lens I own, and the images are not finished in editing yet....

Boy that is a real POS !!

Why don't you let me save you the embarrasment of driving that fugly thing around your town and send it down here to me in Florida.

I have a very strong pysche and can handle the accolades, er uh i mean the ridicule. hehehehe

jk,...beautiful ride.

quote Originally posted by diabloroadster: Thanks! Im hoping its going to be even better after I fix some of the areas that Im not 100% happy with....

Yours is one of the best Diablo's I have seen. Must be a LOT OF FUN to drive!! I know that you must get BIG crowds where ever you go...just the facts. Hey who cares what people say it's your life. Keep up the great work!! I love your car...A LOT!!

quote Originally posted by exoticse: Boy that is a real POS !! Why don't you let me save you the embarrasment of driving that fugly thing around your town and send it down here to me in Florida. I have a very strong pysche and can handle the accolades, er uh i mean the ridicule. hehehehe jk,...beautiful ride.

I was kinda using the POS reference to maybe sway Madcurl into thinking not all replica/kit cars are all POS. I think what Madcurl is missing is- its about personal pride and not so much skill level or the quailty of the end results for alot of people in the car hobby. And in the case of kits and replicas hobbist alot are like me, we are the kind that would much rather say "I" built this myself. Its about not going into a Lamborghini dealership and purchasing a $300k car or paying someone to do everything or most of everything to build the car for you.

Im not trying to come off as bragging but my pride comes from knowing I did everything myself from start to finish on my Diablo except the front end alignment and sew up the upholstey. I tore apart 3 Fieros down to frames, streched one, took a major POS Diablo kit and pieced it together, built my own motor, my own transmission, did my own suspension work, did my own body work, painted it myself, installed the glass, took out every last piece of Fiero wiring and rewired the whole thing- myself....... I didnt pay this guy to this and that guy to that- the success's and failures of this build are all on me.

And when I drive anywhere, and I mean anywhere in that car, it stops traffic.... The car is like a rock star, I cant go anywhere with out people taking photos and causing a fuss. It makes me feel good knowing that the car I built might just made someones day a little better (if only for a couple minutes) just by seeing their smiles and reactions. I know I wouldnt feel the same if I was driving a nice car that someone else built, even if my Diablo came out looking like a real POS I would still have pride in it.

Just because someones skilll level or economic status or even their personal taste maybe at a level so they cant have the best looking replica/kit its still something they may be proud of. And thats no reason to bash someone else's kit/replica. For every one less than perfect kit/replica project out there, I bet I could come up with two really less than perfect custom Fieros. Im sure Madcurl is proud of his custom Fiero, but Im sure I could come up a whole list of things I personally dont like about it. But its his and not mine and I see no need in posting up and bashing his car when he has obviously invested alot of his time and his money into.

And the second part of my little rant is- You would really be suprised to know how few people out there really can spot replicas againt the real thing even when theyre not done to super standards. Yes here, and other replica/ kit sites you will find people who can spot a good replica from a mile away, but on the streets in normal town USA, majority of folks can not. I pulled up to get gas one day and had a guy come up to me and go on to tell me how much he loved Lamborghini's, seen them all the time in France he used to live. He told me I had the best looking and sounding Diablo he has ever seen/heard..... Sadly I told him it was a kit and that sound he thought was so great was a SBC attached to a Fiero transmission... So away from certin interweb sites, and die hard super car fans, most people have never even seen a real Lamborghini.....

So go find a old $100 Fiero and find some old abandoned kit/replica in the back yard of someones house and build your dream car......

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: After listening to all your denigrating comments about replicas and the kitcar industry for over the past three years in this thread, it must be a bitter pill to swallow when the man who designed most of the important changes to your car, of which you are so proud, implies you wouldn't even have it if it weren't for the industry you despise so much.

Correction, that's comments regarding piss-poor replicas that are posted here in this thread, but I digress. What pill is that I need to swallow? What parts from #020 is actually a benefactor of the kit car builders?

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Too funny. The dealer said, "This a 200 mile per hour car. This is not a kit car or poser."-3:30 You know things have gone bad when a used car saleman tells it like it is.

Wonder if the Cobra beside it in beginning is a kit????

quote Originally posted by madcurl: And don't forget to put this engine cover in the back.

Or if you wanted to cook some hotdogs or hamburgers on your engine you could go with this:

quote Originally posted by madcurl: If the kit car world is so important to the very existence of the Fiero world-why on earth do they have stock dukes or 2.8 engines in the back?

Think Madcurl... think. Any Fiero with any body and any engine creates a demand for parts that support the Fiero world. But I'm not surprised that you don't see that.

The answer to the rest of your questions are equally obvious. You're not confusing nor convincing anyone with your brand of logic.

More irony from you:

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I seriously wished that the starter of this thread did a search. The person in question feeds off stuff like this.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Let's see, quoted Dr. Phil, and a car salesman on the same page? Whatever you are rolling in, own it! Tony

Tonys car was parked next to my van last night. What an incredibly great looking Fiero. I love everything about his car, from the fabulous original paint to the tasteful modifications he's done. Everything works. I know that he gets many appreciative glances in his car for sure. I'm still amazed that a car 25 years old not only looks current, but in my opinion actually looks way better than 99% or more of the new cars. I truly appreciate that a Fiero owner of this caliber likes my car too. There have been many smiles brought to the faces of people who see my car and it is a major highlight of driving a car that a lot of people never expected to see in this neck of the woods, but 85SEnochies obvious enjoyment is the highlight. I enjoyed his enjoyment every bit as much as he did. See, it is entirely possible to be a Fiero fan and a rebody fan.

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 10-22-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: Think Madcurl... think. Any Fiero with any body and any engine creates a demand for parts that support the Fiero world. But I'm not surprised that you don't see that.The answer to the rest of your questions are equally obvious. You're not confusing nor convincing anyone with your brand of logic.

Wishful thinking on your part. Any business with any common sense knows where the bulk of their business comes from. To assume that the replica customers would carry the weight off the business is backwards thinking, especially since the majority of transversely mounted engines are mounted in regular Fiero's & not longitutionaly.

Most Fiero owners knew what they wanted-a Fiero with more HP and better suspension. No need for a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Most replica owners knew how to not cut corners thus a exact replica and not the watered down version we now witness. However, I digress. The kit car industry is dead because of their failed attempts at watering down the copy.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 10-22-2012).]

I said it at the beginning of this thread.... Kit cars are the best and worse thing to ever happen to the Fiero. To each their own, but you are crazy if you think we'd have all the support, custom parts, swaps etc w/o the kit car industry (good). But now there are far less Fieros out there and the whole stigma surrounding our cars isnt all that great (bad). If I get asked if I am going to put a kit on my Fiero one more time, someone is getting socked right in the face! LOL

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 10-22-2012).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Any business with any common sense knows where the bulk of their business comes from. To assume that the replica customers would carry the weight off the business is backwards thinkin.

Learn to read. Archie, a current major mainstay businessman in the Fiero customization world who designed most of what you take for granted on your car said that:

quote Originally posted by Archie: If it wasn't for the products, methods & vendors that grew to support the Fiero based Kit car/rebody industry, many of these products, methods & vendors wouldn't be around today to support the Fiero customizations that you are seeing a lot of now-a-days.

So for someone who likes to read into things as much as you do, try reading between his lines and contemplating his meaning the next time you enjoy driving or showing off your V8 powered, chop-topped, Mad Arch bodied car. Then, once you wrap your head around the tense of the verbs he used if you still think he's backwards-thinking, perhaps you can share your first hand experience regarding how you know better than Archie about the progeny of the modifications embodied on your car by him.

quote Originally posted by Archie: I was there in the beginning & I remember how the Fiero chassis & the kit car industry both flourished together because each of them happened when & how they did. The Kit car industry needed a new donor car of the future & the venders who serviced the needs of the Kit car industry back then are the key to wide following the Fiero has today.

Now, shall we have fun disecting the rest of your last post? What does this next statement have to do with anything other than to change the subject, and muddy the waters (not to mention display more of your impeccable spelling):

quote Originally posted by madcurl: ...especially since the majority of transversely mounted engines are mounted in regular Fiero's & not longitutionaly.

And then this:

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Most Fiero owners knew what they wanted-a Fiero with more HP and better suspension. No need for a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

For a guy who prides himself in "designing" how and where to place a vent on a car, or choosing the biggest wheel, who then posts the same pictures of the scoop or wheel from ten angles in ten different threads on the same forum, I'm guessing you haven't a clue what it takes to design more horsepower and a better suspension. Apart from your suitably vague profile, all we know for sure is that you're not an English teacher... though I would bet my life that you're no rocket scientist either.

(edited to add: You should go back to posting pictures of the absolute worst kit cars you can find on the internet... you may find it easier to defend your point of view.)

[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 10-23-2012).]

The rocket scientist is going to reply how he is right AGAIN - but Blooze keep fighting the Bully.

" who then posts the same pictures of the scoop or wheel from ten angles in ten different threads"
= So true

[This message has been edited by ferrobi (edited 10-23-2012).]

quote Originally posted by ferrobi: The rocket scientist is going to reply how he is right AGAIN - but Blooze keep fighting the Bully. " who then posts the same pictures of the scoop or wheel from ten angles in ten different threads" = So true

I see you finally realized that owning a real Ferrari 355 is cheaper Then owning a fake replica.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I see you finally realized that owning a real Ferrari 355 is cheaper Then owning a fake replica.

HUH? 355? What? Cheaper? What? Good comeback - ? I'm ready for some hot dogs, start grilling!

[This message has been edited by ferrobi (edited 10-23-2012).]

quote Originally posted by ferrobi: HUH? 355? What? Cheaper? What? Good comeback - ? I'm ready for some hot dogs, start grilling!

Amazing all the money you dumped into your fake replica And it looked nothing like the real car And it had a 2.8 engine in the back sad.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Amazing all the money you dumped into your fake replica And it looked nothing like the real car And it had a 2.8 engine in the back sad.

And if he is happy with it, what business is it of yours? You sound like a crying politician pissed off at the world because "We cant ban guns" or "We need to take our freedom of speech away" etc etc etc....

So we get it, you dont think its right to make a car and badge it something else. Yet you throw 10s of thousands at a car that looks nothing like a Fiero but still call it a Fiero? How does that even make sense?

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Amazing all the money you dumped into your fake replica And it looked nothing like the real car And it had a 2.8 engine in the back sad.

Nothing like it? Reeealy - what car did it look like then? Your someting else.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: So what you're saying is my three N. stars are directly related to the Ferrari Lamborghini kit car industry right? I need to call design one system for clarification

Do you read the posts that you reply to? At all??

You seem to have all the answers to the questions that were never asked

quote Originally posted by GADJet: Yet you throw 10s of thousands at a car that looks nothing like a Fiero but still call it a Fiero? How does that even make sense?

It doesn't but to Sadcurl it does and always will. Remember he is the "Almighty 1" - Perfection at its finest - a fine honed tool.

[This message has been edited by troyboy (edited 10-23-2012).]

quote Originally posted by diabloroadster: Or if you wanted to cook some hotdogs or hamburgers on your engine you could go with this:

LOL I liked that comment!

[This message has been edited by revin (edited 10-24-2012).]