I've never really like the generic label of 'kit' as some provide little more than the idea while others include every nut, bolt and washer. I prefer the label of 'hand crafted automobile'. It's not just bolting a few parts on over the weekend that makes it different. Take whatever car you have and change it substantially to suit your taste and it becomes something that is more unique that the original. It's a hand crafted extension of your creativity.

quote Originally posted by YellowArtero: I've never really like the generic label of 'kit' as some provide little more than the idea while others include every nut, bolt and washer. I prefer the label of 'hand crafted automobile'. It's not just bolting a few parts on over the weekend that makes it different. Take whatever car you have and change it substantially to suit your taste and it becomes something that is more unique that the original. It's a hand crafted extension of your creativity.

YellowArtero, I agree. Something unique, a hand crafted expression of ones own creativity! I like that a lot!!

Funny how this thread changed topics. It was originally about the end of Kit Car Magazine...

Bob

I know, it was 4 years ago when I got my last magazine and I started this thread to lament on the loss of the publication and the thread has taken on a life of its own.

Magazines come and go but the kit car industry is bigger and better than its ever been. Fiero based cars are still being built but there are more cars being built on custom tube chassis than ever, high dollar, high performance, original design super cars.

quote Originally posted by DL10: Magazines come and go but the kit car industry is bigger and better than its ever been. Fiero based cars are still being built but there are more cars being built on custom tube chassis than ever, high dollar, high performance, original design super cars.

Dude, the only "Fiero based" replica in need of building are the ones on Ebay.


As for the "high dollar custom tubular " cars-they've priced themselves out of reach from 99% of Fiero owners.




The new; NRA

National
Replica
Association

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 01-09-2013).]

.....

[This message has been edited by ferrobi (edited 01-09-2013).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: MadArch Cost? 2k for the kit, 2k for installation = 4k and your pretty much done. Go to the Fierostore or to the nearest junk yard and pull off a Fiero badge and call it a day. Lamborghini/Ferrari kit? 10k-20k just for the body and a additional 80k in a relentless pursuit in trying copy the original. Click on Ebay, purchase a real Lamborghini/Ferrari badge and then turn around and sell the car, because you've realized that the Duke/2.8 engine is still in the back and you're now in too deep. [QUOTE] Replica kits of megabuck exotics are currently out there for a little more than the price of a MadArch Fiero 'kit'. Kit cars are far, far, far more affordable than you know and thankfully educated consumers can still pick, choose and refuse from the options available. The links below are fine examples of affordable exotic supercar kit manufacturers. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/062625.html http://www.carkitinc.com/carkit.php [This message has been edited by I FAR I (edited 01-10-2013).] IP: Logged 11:19 AM RCR Member Posts: 4416 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002 Feedback score:    (7) Leave feedback Total ratings: 102 Rate this member Report this Post01-10-2013 11:52 AM RCR 4416 posts Member since Sep 2002 [QUOTE]Originally posted by ferrobi: .....

What he said...

quote Originally posted by madcurl: No, it's on topic. The magazines have died because Ferrari and Lamborghini lawyers had life long subscriptions. The shoddy builders who duped clients into getting a replica Lamborghini "kit" for $9,999 had no choice but to go into hiding leaving only the top end builders left like Factory Five. That is just one reason for all of the Cobra articles in the mag. The last time I saw something remotely Fiero was the Finale or the jeep like Fiero.

Just because you have an opinion about something that doesn't make it fact. Ferrari and Lamborghini lawyers had nothing to do with stopping publication of any magazine. Kit Car and Kit Car Illustrated were owned buy 2 different publishing companies......these two companies merged and the decided they only wanted one kit car magazine. Jim Young was the editor of the magazine they cut, he than formed the Kit Car Club. The magazine Kit Car Builder was part of the club benefits. I had subsections for both magazines from 1986 on.... I have every Kit Car Builder and have met and talked with Jim several times over the years.
And just so you know , Magazines are very biased in their articles.......the best way to get an article in the magazine is to be a big advertiser.

and since I won'tpost

There is so much more to it than the cost of the body and installation plus a Fiero. My replica body was $6500 plus another $2500 for the manufacturer to install. That's $5,000 over Curlys estimate and it's far from done. I've never heard curly list a price for any of his builds, but it sounds like he hires a lot of it out. I would imagine that his builds would be in the same range as mine even though his body starts out $2500 less than mine. At the end a $2500 difference is less than 10% of a minimum build and Murci's go from $30,000 on up to whatever you want to massage it to. It is very misleading to suggest that all you have to do is buy a cheap Fiero and a body kit to have a replica. There are unfinished cars all the time being offered for half the price that the builder has in it as they realize that they are in over their head and that it will cost much more than they budgeted. Body kit manufacturers typically prey on the idea of a cheap build. Only if the builder does ALL the work and even then it will run far more than originally expected. Hope I haven't killed Anyones dreams, but maybe I have saved someone from spending $20,000 on a project that they finally in dismay sell for $10,000.

I didn't want to edit my last post but it got cut off.......

I said I wouldn't post again in the Kit Car Registry thread......Putting a mad-arch Kit on a Fiero does not make it a Kit Car.
None of the cars you posted in the thread would be put in a Kit Car class at any Fiero show. You know the intent of the thread but You just can't get enough of yourself. You can't have it both ways.....if your really believe the cars you posted should be considered Kit Cars than you have to admit that your car is also a Kit Car.....

I had my 308 kitcar built 20 years ago and the body cost me $4k, plus $2k for Fiero GT, $1.2k for install, rims and rubber were another $2k, plus $1k for paint.





Cost approx. = $10k........Enjoyment otoh = PRICELESS!

[This message has been edited by I FAR I (edited 01-10-2013).]

As I stated 4 yrs ago, trying to play with the big boy's toys is costly which some of them make an effort in getting the kit as-close-as possible while others make futile attempts at fouling a 2yr old or trying to impress ill informed girl at the local watering hole.


As for me, I'll bypass that dog and pony show and keep it real.

'Keep it real'?!?

You don't know wtf you're talking aboutCurly. Engine swaps for Fieros were started on - KIT CARS by V8 Archie!

Face it guy, you are just a very droll troll of Shrek proportions!

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: $4K. Really. George Orwell would be proud to know that the use of Double-Speak has endured this long. The truth is once you have a MadArch kit you also need new wheels, tires, body prep and paint as an absolute minimum, unless you plan to drive your car around in primer for a couple years. Then you discover that the 2.5L or 2.8L engine just doesn't impress anybody when you open the decklid on that fancy looking car, much less step on the gas when the Honda Civic owner pulls up next to you at the light. And those 9-3/4" brakes look awfully small behind the big wheels, and the headlights are old-school, and it would look much better with scissor doors, and the dash is looking kind of dated, not to mention the need for better looking seats, and on and on. Boy it's a good thing "modified Fiero" owners are exempt from the relentless pursuit of the latest models. Trouble is, nobody knows what you're saying anymore, much less why.

I've seen at least four different sets of HRE wheels on Ebay selling for less than $1,200 to which can be tweaked to fit the MadArch wide body kits. There are several choptop owners using hub centric adapters using 18x8 wheels. As for the cost of installation I know the price for I have spoken to V8Archie himself. Archie himself has a wide body without VDC and so too does Chuck. Others are still using the 2.8 engine. Weak? Yes. However, when you're in Archie's shop it's like a kid in a candy store. You just might end up with a LS motor, brakes, and/or what ever. Pick and choose what ever modification one wants when using the MadArch kit or leave as-is for the "kit" is nothing more than a improvement on the outside which easily matches the inside-something to which can't be said of any replica kit. Using a replica kit you have to follow that dog and pony show; outside, inside, and in the engine compartment.


As I mentioned the price for wheels, that too has changed. I have listed many wheels over the past 6 yrs and now there's more.

Great looking car and fabulous twenty year old prices. Congratulations!

quote Originally posted by I FAR I: I had my 308 kitcar built 20 years ago and the body cost me $4k, plus $2k for Fiero GT, $1.2k for install, rims and rubber were another $2k, plus $1k for paint. Cost approx. = $10k........Enjoyment otoh = PRICELESS!

quote Originally posted by DL10: Just because you have an opinion about something that doesn't make it fact. Ferrari and Lamborghini lawyers had nothing to do with stopping publication of any magazine.

So what you're saying is: The Ferrari and Lamborghini lawyers needn't look in those magazines to find kit car builders ripping off their brand name. Oh please, that's the first place to look for the internet was up yet. I'd bet they are looking at all of the various shops throughout the U.S.A on forums such as this.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: As I stated 4 yrs ago, trying to play with the big boy's toys is costly which some of them make an effort in getting the kit as-close-as possible while others make futile attempts at fouling a 2yr old or trying to impress ill informed girl at the local watering hole. As for me, I'll bypass that dog and pony show and keep it real.

You know, after reading your latest petulant attempt at psychology and trying to discern, discredit and discriminate against who, what, where and why, people have kit cars and/or replicas, I have concluded that you are suffering from Transference or in simple terms 'Penis' envy.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: As I stated 4 yrs ago, trying to play with the big boy's toys is costly which some of them make an effort in getting the kit as-close-as possible while others make futile attempts at fouling a 2yr old or trying to impress ill informed girl at the local watering hole. As for me, I'll bypass that dog and pony show and keep it real.

You know, after reading your latest petulant attempt at psychology and trying to discern, discredit and discriminate against who, what, when, where and why, people have kit cars and/or replicas, I have concluded that you are suffering from Transference or in simple terms 'Penis' envy.

quote Originally posted by I FAR I: 'Keep it real'?!?

Over the years, I've been asking myself the same question regarding replicas. "Why can't they keep it real" when coping a well known exotic car as they do when it comes to badging? What's the old saying, "Body by Fisher, mind by Mattel."

The location of the badging is correct, but


body isn't


nor is the engine.


If you're going to copy a exotic car at least try to make a futile attempt at "keeping it real." Otherwise, bypass that "Dog and Pony" show and just tweak your Fiero.

Build it anyway you like. No reason a replica body has to conform exactly to the original. If you want exact, build it exact. If you want to customize it, customize it. If you don't have the skills or money to do an exact and an exact is not necessary to satisfy your needs, go for it. No one has to build anything to anyone elses standards.

I have to chime in here. This thread was originally started 4 years ago in regards to the ending of KIT CAR magazine. The thread was to lament the demise of a publication, but for some reason this thread has turned into a debate which has spilled over to the other thread that I started which was started to encourage people to send pics of their cars, not to turn into a feud. It was suppose to open dialog about the cars. If anybody wants to start a thread about choptop widebody Fieros vs Fiero based kitcars then they are free to do so. Please let's get back to the reason why we are here and that is the cars.

quote Originally posted by I FAR I: Replica kits of megabuck exotics are currently out there for a little more than the price of a MadArch Fiero 'kit'. Kit cars are far, far, far more affordable than you know and thankfully educated consumers can still pick, choose and refuse from the options available. The links below are fine examples of affordable exotic supercar kit manufacturers. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/062625.html http://www.carkitinc.com/carkit.php

Fine examples for $5999, are you kidding me? Those $5999ers are the reason why for shoddy builds seen here. Just because it' $5999 doesn't mean it will look correct nor exceed 100k. The shoody builders are making exotic cars for everybody, just like Barney Frank made it possible for everybody to own a house.

Well said Dratts.
I think Madcurl is under the delusion that everyone who builds replicas is trying to make it exact and it falls short.
I personally want to build a replica and I don`t care if it is exact, although with the exception of the non-stretch Countach a lot of the bodies are "splashed" off of an original car.
And unless it`s in really bad shape, from a few feet away most can`t tell the difference in fiberglass or aluminum.
I know that just for grins I bought some original Diablo power window switches and they were about 100.00.
Well, if you try to go that route and try to buy everything that has Lamborghini on it you will spend a fortune.
Considering that I mostly drive and probably would not have a replica at many shows there is a lot of money that can be saved by not buying parts that are going to try to fool people into believing that the car is real.
What is ironic is that I would bet more people could tell you what kind of car even a bad replica is than be able to tell you that Madcurl`s car is a Fiero.
Not a dig on you Madcurl as I think your car is nice.

[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 01-10-2013).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Fine examples for $5999, are you kidding me? Those $5999ers are the reason why for shoddy builds seen here. Just because it' $5999 doesn't mean it will look correct nor exceed 100k. The shoody builders are making exotic cars for everybody, just like Barney Frank made it possible for everybody to own a house.

Look, I already KNOW you don't appreciate and have never built a kit car or replica and seeing as you've proven you don't understand, or know, a blasted thing about replicas or kit cars, your opinions means nothing to me. So you just keep on playing with your Fieros and I'll keep on enjoying Fiero kit cars!

quote Originally posted by bomaze: I have to chime in here. This thread was originally started 4 years ago in regards to the ending of KIT CAR magazine. The thread was to lament the demise of a publication, but for some reason this thread has turned into a debate which has spilled over to the other thread that I started which was started to encourage people to send pics of their cars, not to turn into a feud. It was suppose to open dialog about the cars. If anybody wants to start a thread about choptop widebody Fieros vs Fiero based kitcars then they are free to do so. Please let's get back to the reason why we are here and that is the cars.

Any thread with Kit Car in the title will be ruined by Madcurl and his hate. His opinion is all that counts...... he lives in a fantasy world.
You are the OP of the Kit Car Registry thread so I would like your opinion, do you think a car with the Madarch KIT on it is a Kit Car. I know that they would not be classed as a Kit Car in any Fiero show I know of. They have all been in many show and they were never placed in the Kit Car class. I don't think these cars belong in the thread that made to showcase Kit Cars and rebodys.

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: I think Madcurl is under the delusion that everyone who builds replicas is trying to make it exact and it falls short.

Oh but, they do try.



If those who set out to build a "replica" and are not trying to make a exact copy-then why do they badge it?

A person badges a car he/her is saying this is a replica of the original and is therefore worthy of badging.

Let`s for arguments sake say that it must be badged something.
You can`t put a Fiero badge on it.
And I don`t think you can get a badge that says Lamborghinin Replica so a Lamborghini badge is the next best thing.
I guess you could just leave the badge off and tell people it`s a replica.
I think it`s funny that ever since I got Amida`s front nose which is modeled after a Ferrari nose and I have the Fiero badge right in the middle of the grille, people will look real close to see what it says.
From a distance the Fiero badge sort of looks similar to a Ferrari badge that`s on the side of a 512 and in most shows or Cars & Coffees I go to it`s parked in between two cars so you can mostly just see it from head on.

[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 01-10-2013).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: "Penis envy"? I'm Black.

Thats why you have such a bad case of it............ not all black man are created equal

quote Originally posted by madcurl: "Penis envy"? I'm Black.

"Penis envy?" I'm Yugoslavian. It looks like a brick on the end of an arm. :razz:

Now, back to your regular hate spit by madcurl. You know, the one with a kit car, that is not a kit car?

Madcurl, feel free to do some work on your own car there buddy. When you know how to use a wrench, then I will respect you. Until then, keep being a biatch. The sand in your vagina is flowing.

quote Originally posted by dratts: Great looking car and fabulous twenty year old prices. Congratulations!

I appreciate your compliment. Thanks!

Back then 308/328 and a few F40 and Countach kits were available and although the money for them was all relative to the times, a kit car was, and still is, a very attractive proposition. Today there are F355s, a 458 is out there too. Lambo Murcielagos, Diablos, Reventons and Aventadors for a fraction of the real cost. I couldn't care less about a kit car being an exact replica, or a re-skinned Fiero, but I do care about lower maintenance costs and the appeal of having what looks like a megabuck exotic for a relative pittance.

I like Formula 1, but won't likely get a chance to drive or race an F1 racecar (although I have driven a Formula Ford) without a significant outlay of cash. Should I quit having fun by not racing go-karts instead?

Of course not!

So if I like exotic cars and can buy or build a kit car replica of an exotic -- why shouldn't or wouldn't I? There's a cost - yes, but the value is so great, that I have to question the judgement of anyone who would find fault with a replica, even if they could afford the real exotic.

Is a replica the Real car?
It can be a real good looking car- YES!

Is a replica a Real Expensive car?
Compared to the 'real' car - NO!

Is a replica a Fun car?
OH YEEEEEAAAH!

[This message has been edited by I FAR I (edited 01-10-2013).]

quote Originally posted by I FAR I: Look, I already KNOW you don't appreciate and have never built a kit car or replica and seeing as you've proven you don't understand, or know, a blasted thing about replicas or kit cars, your opinions means nothing to me. So you just keep on playing with your Fieros and I'll keep on enjoying Fiero kit cars!

The fact that you are commenting shows that "it does mean something to you"especially since the "cars" featured in this thread by me aren't your cars.

Once again, it proves that regardless of how bad a exotic replica is built there are those here that would defend anything that exposes the defects. Those who dare are dealt the with the likeness of a true NRA (National Replica Association) zealot. It's a, "All for one and one for all" mentality for you know that if one crappy build falls-it might spread to the rest of them. Non of the owners of crappy builds have no desire to correct the mistakes for it's too costly. This is why there's dozens of them now on Ebay trying to unload them onto the next uninformed buyer.

You've proven yourself again today to be an instigator and a troll who knows nothing of what you speak about here, so your opinions NOW mean nothing to me!

And, FYI, I am Black and a RastaMan.....thus my I.D.- - I FAR I.....which means ONE FOR ALL and ALL FOR ONE!

[This message has been edited by I FAR I (edited 01-10-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Madcurl, feel free to do some work on your own car there buddy. When you know how to use a wrench, then I will respect you. Until then, keep being a biatch. The sand in your vagina is flowing.

Some people have talents in turning a wrench while others in design. End the end plenty of people have benefited by the creation of the MadArch widebody kit. If that is what you call, "Vagina" I take that as a compliment.