quote Originally posted by madcurl: Everything is wrong with this kit. Notice the body, door, glass, A-pillar, mirrors, stock brakes, wheels. However, the owner nailed in on the badges-for everything else can be wrong, but not the badges.

I must be one of those rare Fiero owners, I like my Fiero to look like, well, a Fiero. Or at the extreme end of that, a highly modded Fiero (like yours minus the GAWD AWFUL chop-tops--- sorry, just not my thing).

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 12-17-2011).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I'm still not going to bash your threads. I happen to like your cars, but even if I didn't I would feel no need to put down something that you like. I just wish that it went both ways with us. Dude, you're too late. Shawnbag and Pennock's Sucks and Super Tuner forums have beaten you to it. Your welcomed to bash away on my threads for all of my cars are nothing more than modified Fieros and I'm humble enough to badged as such. Not even close to the original, but the Ferrari emblems are in place to let all know it's a replica, right?

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I'm humble enough to badged as such.

I'm sure l will get some bad ratings from this thread but.....

Your cars may be badged as Fiero, but you come off as less than humble with your Look at me....Look at me threads. You have some nice examples of modified Fieros but your attitude gets a little old.

I own one of cars you put down..[OK you may never have put down my car but many like it]
you know I still have that lame V-6 in it and I'm still Rollin on 15" wheels. My car was designed to be a Replica of a Pantera 200, a car most people have never heard of. It's not an exact replica as it was designed to be a bolt-on rebody for a Fiero. My car is not considered a Kit Car by the editor of Kit Car Mag. because there was never a Kit sold to build one. My car was hand carved one piece at a time, from each piece a mold was made, than a part was hand laid in each mold. The parts were then bolted on, adjusted, sanded, and painted by one man in his garage. I am not that man but my cars wears a badge in his honor. His name was Don Lee and his car is a 10........and that is where the DL10 Predator comes from.


Now according to Curly's standards my car's pretty lame, but I don't claim it to be anything but a Fiero re-body and I have never taken credit for anything about building the car....... I just wrote a check and I'm good at keeping it clean. I'm sure I have had many more stories and adventures in the Predator than Curly has had in his choppers,you know like I've won over 150 trophies and awards including Best in Class Chicago World of Wheels,Best Re-body at the 25th anniversary, in the coffee table book and DVD, on cover of several magazines and ......... I just don't feel the need to share them as much as he does.


I own another car that's not up to Curly's standards, you know I haven't tweaked it to be mine, it's still has those lame rockers from the 90's on there.


I may be one of the founding members of the choptop club........I'm just not in the click, nobody calls me

Enjoy they cars you have......don't worry about what some-else drives.

quote Originally posted by DL10: I own another car that's not up to Curly's standards, you know I haven't tweaked it to be mine, it's still has those lame rockers from the 90's on there. I may be one of the founding members of the choptop club........I'm just not in the click, nobody calls me Enjoy they cars you have......don't worry about what some-else drives.

Dude, my car is modeled after the GBCT, but I think at the time the previous owner owned it (Falcon). My wheels from the person using "Simmons" wheels (it's somewhere on Pennocks). And quite telling a fib. You know I have you on speed dial, hehe. Seriously, take more pics of the GBCT and share your experiences on the choptop chronicles.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Dude, that is was your fault that you still have the 2.8. You backed out on the deal during the Choptop Reunion when I was going to buy the GBCT and you were going to install the LT1 engine in your other car.

It's not my Fault........it's my Choice to leave the V-6 in the Predator. I have one Fiero with a V-8 I don't need another one. And there was never a deal to back out of......We did talk about me maybe selling you the GBCT but no one wanted to see the GBCT turned into your latest vision.

I'm trying to figure out where my car will end up on this "standard". I've already taken body kits and modified them to what I like. Too costly to attempt a "duplicate" of a exotic car just to never quite be there.
I must admit that I do get confused on the "Standard". If every body panel is removed and modified to where the car can't be recognized, what really is the difference other than the body kit is working towards looking like another specific car? Is there much difference if the drivetrain is completely different, interior is totally different?
Even the new "muscle" cars can be recognized from their predecessors but aren't the same car.
But back on the ORIGINAL subject, soon kits based on Fieros will die because of chassis limitations.

Maybe we can start a thread just for mad curl to bash replicas and replica owners can bash mad curl. I have no idea why he is so insecure that he has to try building himself up by tearing replica owners down. They are two distinctly different approaches to what can be done with a fiero. Both are valid in my opinion. To each his own.

quote Originally posted by DL10: I'm sure l will get some bad ratings from this thread but..... Your cars may be badged as Fiero, but you come off as less than humble with your Look at me....Look at me threads. You have some nice examples of modified Fieros but your attitude gets a little old. I own one of cars you put down..[OK you may never have put down my car but many like it] you know I still have that lame V-6 in it and I'm still Rollin on 15" wheels. My car was designed to be a Replica of a Pantera 200, a car most people have never heard of. It's not an exact replica as it was designed to be a bolt-on rebody for a Fiero. My car is not considered a Kit Car by the editor of Kit Car Mag. because there was never a Kit sold to build one. My car was hand carved one piece at a time, from each piece a mold was made, than a part was hand laid in each mold. The parts were then bolted on, adjusted, sanded, and painted by one man in his garage. I am not that man but my cars wears a badge in his honor. His name was Don Lee and his car is a 10........and that is where the DL10 Predator comes from. Now according to Curly's standards my car's pretty lame, but I don't claim it to be anything but a Fiero re-body and I have never taken credit for anything about building the car....... I just wrote a check and I'm good at keeping it clean. I'm sure I have had many more stories and adventures in the Predator than Curly has had in his choppers,you know like I've won over 150 trophies and awards including Best in Class Chicago World of Wheels,Best Re-body at the 25th anniversary, in the coffee table book and DVD, on cover of several magazines and ......... I just don't feel the need to share them as much as he does. I own another car that's not up to Curly's standards, you know I haven't tweaked it to be mine, it's still has those lame rockers from the 90's on there. I may be one of the founding members of the choptop club........I'm just not in the click, nobody calls me Enjoy they cars you have......don't worry about what some-else drives.

You should be me; the guy will not even acknowledge me or my cars except to bash them or me. He claims to be a Chop top fan but it is only the chops built by his obsession. He disses me just because I'm not a fan of his info commercials for his dream man. To me it is about the cars and we all have likes and dislikes in them. I could care less if someone puts a Ferrari emblem on a Honda. I think you guys are starting to see what I have for years.

PEACE to all even the guys with Ferrari badges on their Toyotas.

quote Originally posted by dratts: Maybe we can start a thread just for mad curl to bash replicas and replica owners can bash mad curl. I have no idea why he is so insecure that he has to try building himself up by tearing replica owners down. They are two distinctly different approaches to what can be done with a fiero. Both are valid in my opinion. To each his own.

Genius but this is already kinda that. He sure is insecure.

quote Originally posted by F355spider: You should be me; the guy will not even acknowledge me or my cars except to bash them or me. He claims to be a Chop top fan but it is only the chops built by his obsession. He disses me just because I'm not a fan of his info commercials for his dream man. To me it is about the cars and we all have likes and dislikes in them. I could care less if someone puts a Ferrari emblem on a Honda. I think you guys are starting to see what I have for years. PEACE to all even the guys with Ferrari badges on their Toyotas.

Well as I've said I like just about all fieros. Rebodys and customs. I have to say that I'm intensely interested in your t-top chopped ls4 powered project. We have three ls4 powered fieros up here. One stock, one built normal aspirated and my turbo charged plus another that will have a whipple supercharged engine in it. I have two N* powered fieros and I like them but in my opinion ls4 is the next fiero swap. Not to put down the quick 3800SCs out there. So many options.

Oh no! The "Replicates" are ganging up on me and are defending (ALL) rebodies no matter how bad they may look.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Oh no! The "Replicates" are ganging up on me and are defending (ALL) rebodies no matter how bad they may look.

Is that a chop top or a rebody? It's hard to even tell that it is a fiero. I would guess that it probably gets more attention than your car.

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 12-18-2011).]

quote Originally posted by ferrobi: I have been seeing it for years too and never understood why someone doesn't put this guy in his place. Peace Rob

According to (YOU) I've been a thorn in your side even though I've never publicly mentioned your car nor for that matter Dratts car. You've come on the "Choptop Chronicles" thread twice to make a comment and then decide to remove them. Yet, I've never been on your thread. I find that odd that you are condeming me for exposing obvious and serious mistakes on the kits that are dipicted here.

Here are the facts:

YOUR CAR WAS NEVER MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD NOR WAS THE PICTURE OF YOUR CAR.

THE CARS THAT ARE IN THIS THREAD YOU ARE DEFENDING THEM.

Curly, the reason you're getting a push back here is because you seem to have a hard on for replicas. I've never said anything bad about your car, but I'm beyond fed up with your attitude.

Archie asked me to let it go on your chronicle thread and since I have respect for him I decided that's a good idea. I still don't understand why that thread is in the construction zone - since it seems to be about driving around and what happens when people see your car. WOW. I have seen you bash replicas for so long it's getting obnoxious. Why can't you just shut your mouth and leave the replicas alone and concentrate on what you like. I'm not condemning you for pointing out obvious mistakes on replicas that you have found. Mistakes will always be there - I know that - Nothing is perfect replica or modified fiero. Some a little more than others and yes some are pretty funny looking. But your general hatred/bashing of replica's is what I don't like and understand. I don't bash you car nor anyone else's or anyone else's type of car "choppers". So maybe you'll get it someday. Maybe not. I'm pretty sure you never will.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Oh no! The "Replicates" are ganging up on me and are defending (ALL) rebodies no matter how bad they may look.

For some reason I think Roger Rabbit needs to be that photo?

quote Originally posted by dratts: I've never said anything bad about your car.

And neither have I, so what's your problem?

quote Originally posted by dratts: Curly, the reason you're getting a push back here is because you seem to have a hard on for replicas.

Pushed back by who, replica owners? Are you apart of some type of Teamster Union representing all replicas? Are you the offical spokes person for all that is good and bad?

quote Originally posted by dratts: I'm beyond fed up with your attitude.

Why is that? My comments shouldn't affect you. Are you so insecure that whenever (a) replica kit is mentioned your blood pressure surges even though nobody has mentioned your car?

Guys, c'mon really? Take it down a notch. Seriously there is just TOO damn much bickering on our forum these days. I mean we are all grown men (and women) here. Take it to PM's or take 'em out back for a good whoopin'.

I hate chop tops, I hate vertical doors and most if not all of the hideous rebodies. But you know what? It doesn't matter what I think. Its all about what the owners think....and THAT is ALL that matters. Now that's been said, if you dont have something nice to say, or a HELPFUL criticism, have some common courtesy and keep it to yourself.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 12-18-2011).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: ........... Are you the offical spokes person for all that is good and bad?

I think you are being asked that very same question.

quote Originally posted by randye: I think you are being asked that very same question.

That would be, "Constructive criticism." The person asking questions-not the person who is representing replicas.

If the owners are proud of their replica builds which they have spent countless hours in building-then why aren't they putting there (OWN) name of the hood of the car?

If OWNERS are so proud of their build then why not badge it as there own? Why not make a badge that reads, "Borrow designed by Ferrari/Build by Joe Blow"?

Is it because by doing so they will miss out on the various benefits that the name involks?

1. Name brand
2. Notoriety
3. Fame.
4. Women

Curley, if you could break yourself away, give me a call tomorrow.

Archie

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Example A: Enterra IMHO a beautiful body that was once offered. I've seen a (few) re-badge it as a Ferrari. Why is that-when the car doesn't come close to looking like a Ferrari? When a trick out Honda pulls up next to a Enterra (but now re-badged Ferrari) at a stop light, looks over and see's tons of F-badges, hear's a 2.8, and 9" rotors-then ask, "What model Ferrari is that?"

I like it... kinda reminds me of a Brickland.

Heres a good forum

http://kitcarforums.net/smf/index.php

HAHAHAHAAA!!!! let me play the devils advocate, here *seescreenname*.....

i had too..........sorry

quote Originally posted by madcurl: ...replica kit is mentioned your blood pressure surges even though nobody has mentioned your car?

quote Originally posted by dratts: I've never said anything bad about your car

quote Originally posted by madcurl: And neither have I, so what's your problem?

Someone needs a reminder of what they did say:

quote Originally posted by madcurl: ...all other replicas look stupid.

And the Quote of the Year goes to:

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Are you the offical spokes person for all that is good and bad?

I have always believed that the best part of any segment of the whole "car hobby" is the fact that anybody can build the car THEY want, whether any one else in the world wants one or even likes it. I can build/customize a car to suit my own tastes and so can you. I can truly appreciate Madcurl's car even though I personally wouldn't want one with scissor doors or a chopped top. I can truly appreciate a rebody whether it is trying to look like a Ferrari or something original. That is the reason that I have been checking out this site for YEARS.

When I see a lowrider with 13" gold plated wire wheels rocking hydraulic suspension, my first reaction is to cringe. But then, nobody builds lowriders to impress ME. But after a second look, I notice the high quality paint job (candy green metal flake with pink flames ) and the high level of planning and finishing that went into it, and I have to admit that there are cool aspects to it.

I wish, instead of bashing we would try to have a little more appreciation for each others cars- whether or not we would want them ourselves. Besides, no one is going to win these arguments or convince anybody that their style is better anyways.

Come on guys it's time for this thread to die! I'm sitting home on medical leave with an 100% blocked artery in my heart and the doctors aren't sure they can unblock it and I can't believe you guys are crying about who likes who's car. If you like it that's all that should matter, hell there are a lot of members on PFF that don't like me or my car ( just look at the red on my bar) but I could care less I like it. Curley is just very passionate about Fieros and tries to encourage others to think out side the box, Curley my brother tone it down a bit not all share your passion or views. And for the members that say they no longer care for Curley , just means that you have never met him in person. Few have helped the fiero community as much as he and no one can say they reached out to him for help and was turned away. Ok rant over, time to pop a nitro tab

[This message has been edited by troyboy (edited 12-19-2011).]

Oh wow. I got to say, I say this thread coming but didn't realize it would come in this manner.

I think that the whole issue of what it means to build a kit car has been missed entirely. The name "replica" is slightly misleading - even I will admit that. While there is a finite difference between "kit car" and "replica," it's a line that can be drawn in various ways. People that build replicas don't build them to fully 'replicate' what they're trying to build. They just don't. If that were the case, then 99% of every replica builder has utterly failed.

Again, not everyone who owns a modified Fiero with some sort of kit car or replica car body on it just assumes they are utter failures because there may be multiple issues that aren't right. Do you think Ferrobi is upset that in the back of his F40 replica resides a stock 2.8L. No... well, he probably wants a bit more power. I can guarantee you however that pretty much everyone that looks at his car, whether it's going down the road or sitting at a car show, shows massive appreciation towards it. Even further does this appreciation extend to those who have done similar types of work and can understand the amount of effort and time it takes. Then you have things like the Mera/308. Are they anything like the real thing? Not really. The body on these cars is rather off compared to a real 308. Then you have the major variances that such cars carry. Do you think that people that own a 308 kit/replica care what others think of how their car looks? No. Obviously one just has to look at the enthusiastic Mera group that is part of PFF and can immediately see major variances in there cars, despite them essentially being the exact same thing. Should they be bash or lambasted because their cars are not like the real thing. Nope. I personally think the 308 replicas and Meras are one of the best things to happen to the Fiero kit community, despite most of them carrying nothing in common with the real thing. I love Batousai's enthusiasm with his Mera. I know he enjoys it, just like every real Mera owner and every 308 kit car owner does. Again most of their cars are not like the real thing. However that simply doesn't matter.

Another thing you have to realize is people don't have $6,000+ to spend on wheels. People don't have the tens of thousands of dollars that it takes to have serious body modifications on their Fieros made. I would seriously guess that 90%-95% of the currently active forum cannot afford Archie's widebody kit. I can - belive me I can. Do I want to buy it? No, I don't. Do I respect it? Of course I do. Archie and his crew put a tremendous amount of work into it's construction. Do I bash it. No. Is it my thing? Not really. I'm one of the ones that realize at the end of the day no matter how much you modify a Fiero, it's still a Fiero, and I can see better things that two grand could go to on my car.

The above is why such a large variance in the quality of cars exist out there, both Fiero, kit car, and replica. Kit cars and replicas are "easy," in that the major work is already done for you. All the end builder has to do is figure out a way to mount it properly, finish the intricate body work needed for paint, then paint. Of course there will be those that cut corners. Is that a problem? No. It's understandable. Building a kit/replica is nowhere near cheap (something everyone needs to realize) nor can it be completed in a timely manner.

Somebody said above that "kit cars are the best and worst thing to happen to Fieros," and I'm inclined to agree to a large deal. Part of constructing a kit car or replica is the joy of building the car from something that it is originally not. It the same thing you have done with your cars Madcurl and thus at the utter core of the matter makes you no different that whomever built the yellow Enzo that you bash. They took a vehicle, using components not originally made for it, and constructed something different out of it. Honestly for you to bash any sort of modifications done in any way to a Fiero is like you bashing yourself.

Here's a good case in point:

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...1/HTML/084032-3.html

quote Originally posted by Dehning:

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Whoever design this crap must've looked at ever ricer mold made and thought it would work on a Fiero. NOT!

Then you post Alex's car on this same page above;

quote Originally posted by madcurl:

While I'll admit the Plazma (Laura) is a very nice body on the Fiero, why do you not bash it? It carries that same "ricer" mentality as any other "ricer" does. Metal plating? Check. Spoiler? Check. Body kit-ish looking body work? Check. Don't even get me started on the other comparisons that could be drawn. Sure it's got a good amount of power to back up it's looks, but in all honesty at the end of the day the type of visual modifications done to the car are no different that someone taking a VFiber kit and putting it on their Fiero.

Don't get me wrong. Alex did a tremendous job with the car, and I feel that it's legacy will long live on in the Fiero community, as new potential Fiero enthusiasts come into the game and inquire about the car. I really respect what the man did to make the car his and I know more than anyone that the time and money that was placed into it was tremendous. Honestly, I believe it's more of an influential car to the Fiero community than even the choptops will ultimately become. However, at it's ultimate core it's on the same visual level as those so called "ricer" modifications that could be done to a Fiero. Thus if you're willing to bash that then you should bash the Plazma as well.

I have to say as a fellow Fiero owner and enthusiast I'm rather disappointed. As you obviously have the ability and means by which to afford these vehicles that see excessive modifications, you should be one of the first individuals to accept all modified Fieros in all their forms, whether they be kit/replica or standard modified Fiero. Yet it seems from the posts lately and obviously here there is a certain "standard" of sorts that just shouldn't exist in this sort of small community, especially as Fieros dwindle more and more in numbers daily. It's as if for you to accept any modified Fiero, they have to have a certain set of modifications that place them into the same realm as your cars - choptop, widebody, big wheels, modified engine. Not everyone is like that, modified Fiero or kit/replica or otherwise. If I were in possession of a highly modified Fiero(s), I would be the first to offer the most constructive criticsm I possibly could in every situation, rather than limit my responses to praise for those individuals I deem within the "sphere" of advanced Fiero ownership and bash everything else. You should be one of the more exclusive examples of where Fiero ownership can take a person, and yet more and more it appears as if instead of example it is a pedestal that no one can transverse atop.

------------------
1986 Fiero GT... with REALLY high mileage

WOW where did all that negative come from curly?? (no bashing from me, just saying)
Pointing out flaws are no fun for anyone (well maybe for the person saying it). Most have done THEIR best at customizing stuff. either 1st time trying or done it for a while.
Non professionals can make a mistake here and there in the bodywork or in the custom parts. Flaws happen.

Kit cars VS. custom cars where do you draw a line? Some would look at your car and ask if it was a kit or a rebody I would think. How much IS still a Fiero?
Me bash curly's car? ok...too much chrome in the engine bay! (cause I don't want to have to polish it all the time )

Calm down Curls. We are all here for the love of the frame underneath, no matter who or what was done to the top and sides. agreed?

[This message has been edited by revin (edited 12-19-2011).]

I may be way off base here, but I`m going to add my take on part of this whole encompassing subject.
It wasn`t too long ago, that if you couldn`t do your own customizing or have a friend do some for you then you went to Archie.
Archie does some great work and if you had some extensive work done then you were part of an elite group who had something that thousands of other Fiero enthusiasts didn`t. Bragging rights if you will.
Well, in comes Whodeanie, who I think we can all agree is doing some pretty amazing work.
Suddenly, there is access to a lot more customizing at a more Southerly location.
Thus, the bragging pool is getting larger, not so much of a very small group anymore.
I remember a few years ago at a show that was in Kerrville.
Most of the people had done at least a couple of mods and let`s face it, when we do mods we all want people to notice.
Well, Leroy showed up with his car with the chop top, Vette engine, suicide doors and it was pretty much the talk of the show.
Fortunately, a lot of the people at the show appreciated the mods that fellow enthusiasts had actually done themselves so the effort was noticed.

quote Originally posted by troyboy: Come on guys it's time for this thread to die! I'm sitting home on medical leave with an 100% blocked artery in my heart and the doctors aren't sure they can unblock it and I can't believe you guys are crying about who likes who's car. If you like it that's all that should matter, hell there are a lot of members on PFF that don't like me or my car ( just look at the red on my bar) but I could care less I like it. Curley is just very passionate about Fieros and tries to encourage others to think out side the box, Curley my brother tone it down a bit not all share your passion or views. And for the members that say they no longer care for Curley , just means that you have never met him in person. Few have helped the fiero community as much as he and no one can say they reached out to him for help and was turned away. Ok rant over, time to pop a nitro tab

Your car is incredible and one that I have long admired. I would have liked to meet curly and check out his cars, but his arrogance and negativity has pretty much turned me off. My loss because I like cars and I like to talk cars with other enthusiasts.

quote Originally posted by troyboy: Come on guys it's time for this thread to die! I'm sitting home on medical leave with an 100% blocked artery in my heart and the doctors aren't sure they can unblock it and I can't believe you guys are crying about who likes who's car. If you like it that's all that should matter, hell there are a lot of members on PFF that don't like me or my car ( just look at the red on my bar) but I could care less I like it. Curley is just very passionate about Fieros and tries to encourage others to think out side the box, Curley my brother tone it down a bit not all share your passion or views. And for the members that say they no longer care for Curley , just means that you have never met him in person. Few have helped the fiero community as much as he and no one can say they reached out to him for help and was turned away. Ok rant over, time to pop a nitro tab

Wow Troy.

That news about your health is a shocker.

Sad and stunned at the same time.

Praying for you and your family.

The heart is strong it's those pesky arteries. I already have one stint in the " widow maker " from 3 years ago. This time they tried to stint this new blockage but failed, I go to see another doc tommorrow for a game plan. I tell my wife I can hear them playing the song from the 6 million dollar man " we can rebuild him.........". Thanks for asking and you know we are never done building our cars, just ask Archie I'm driving him crazy with the R&D for the supercharger for the LS7.

What supercharger? We have a guy here who is planning a whipple for his ls4. I went with the 4t65e hd thinking that it was the strongest tranny available, but I've already broken a stock input shaft and a 300M. I'm dropping a bundle on a built tranny right now. I think I remember that you cryoed your tranny. Will your clutch and tranny hold the boosted hp? Not trying to second guess you. I think that you should push it as far as you can. Too much hp is just about right. Right?

I want to see how hard I can push the f40, and if it can't hold I have a backup plan from over seas. For now we are talking to Magna and Bell. I only plan on running 6 to 7 psi